Living Story Lore vehicle needed.

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Posted by: Tyrecian.3456

Tyrecian.3456

As we move ever forward into year 2 of GW, the living story rolls ever onward. Whatever direction you are taking it, we as players need a place where the Lore of the living story exists for returning and confused, or even nostalgic players.

Some out of the way place in Lion’s Arch that details what happened: a councilman’s death, an investigation, aetherblades!, skyfolk, elections! As we move away from these events they will be harder and harder to explain to folks, and some players just won’t be able to make all the living stories, but will want to know what happened, from within the game.

I missed flame and frost, and have no idea what happened in that living story. I would love to be able to go somewhere, in game, and read about what happened. Who was affected and how did it end?

Not to mention the art that was included in the little noir short for the LA investigation event during dragon Bash. Or the dragon art. Tidbits…. they would not go amiss, and offer a permanence to the living story that we could use to visit and reflect.

I loved seeing the Queen become a mesmer’s joke in Faren’s arms. I think it would be sweet to be able to revisit that, or even show a new player sometime later when the pale tree sends sylvari to hunt that terrorist down what happened through a device in game.

It would be a kind of tatoo, a reflection of the living story that would last.

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Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

Would something like the Mystery Machine from Scooby Doo work?

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

As we move ever forward into year 2 of GW, the living story rolls ever onward. Whatever direction you are taking it, we as players need a place where the Lore of the living story exists for returning and confused, or even nostalgic players.

Some out of the way place in Lion’s Arch that details what happened: a councilman’s death, an investigation, aetherblades!, skyfolk, elections! As we move away from these events they will be harder and harder to explain to folks, and some players just won’t be able to make all the living stories, but will want to know what happened, from within the game.

I missed flame and frost, and have no idea what happened in that living story. I would love to be able to go somewhere, in game, and read about what happened. Who was affected and how did it end?

Not to mention the art that was included in the little noir short for the LA investigation event during dragon Bash. Or the dragon art. Tidbits…. they would not go amiss, and offer a permanence to the living story that we could use to visit and reflect.

I loved seeing the Queen become a mesmer’s joke in Faren’s arms. I think it would be sweet to be able to revisit that, or even show a new player sometime later when the pale tree sends sylvari to hunt that terrorist down what happened through a device in game.

It would be a kind of tatoo, a reflection of the living story that would last.

They don’t even put the lore from the current living story in-game — you expect them to put lore from previous living stories in-game? Fat chance.

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Posted by: Shiren.9532

Shiren.9532

Don’t worry, those of us who were here for all of it are also confused by it.

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Posted by: Fredmeyer.6534

Fredmeyer.6534

I think a great plot device to tell new players about previous lore would be through some variant of the Dream (like in Sylvari areas such as the Grove, etc). That would be a good method of watching old cutscenes through the memories of the Pale Tree, which IS a living, sentient tree. I particularly would enjoy watching the infamous Lord Faren fail cutscene again. The cutscenes could cover living story as well as personal story elements you may have forgotten (although with a lot of weak story paths this may not appeal to all characters).

To be honest, a lot of this story isn’t exactly well written (at least in my opinion), but even a little context helps a lot of new players enjoy this temporary content more. It’s a better option than asking somebody in map chat and hearing responses like “dude dies. robots attack. faren fails”.

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Posted by: BobbyStein

BobbyStein

Guild Wars 2 Narrative Lead

Next

We’re currently working on a system that will better direct players through Living World content. Eventually, it will also provide story context for LW and other content types. The first phase of the system should be ready before the end of the year.

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Posted by: Elbegast.6970

Elbegast.6970

We’re currently working on a system that will better direct players through Living World content. Eventually, it will also provide story context for LW and other content types. The first phase of the system should be ready before the end of the year.

That should have shipped with the initial release of the living story. That system should have been designed before the living story content was even written.

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Posted by: I See No Tomorrow.7302

I See No Tomorrow.7302

We’re currently working on a system that will better direct players through Living World content. Eventually, it will also provide story context for LW and other content types. The first phase of the system should be ready before the end of the year.

That should have shipped with the initial release of the living story. That system should have been designed before the living story content was even written.

You can’t change the past. At least they’re working on it now.

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Posted by: grogreen.2160

grogreen.2160

yes sir
I agree with the need for a lore vehicle, and info about whats going on in Tyria being in game.
This other thread is good
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/lwd/Tyria-needs-its-newspaper

Relentless United Respectful

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Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

The current phase off events is just plain ridiculous. I understand the suspension of disbelief but the whole Queen event disappearing in a matter of minute is ridiculous.

What I am talking about is a slow phase out of living story environment and items ie the ballons towers…who dismantled them? why didn t it take a day or two for those to be removed?

What about the gauntlet? Who dismantled it and why weren t there workers moving crates etc…see what I mean? The content spawns and despawns in a flash when it could be used to greatly improve the living story by making the world actually feel like it is changing.

The vendors for sprokets items could have moved to outside of the gauntlet and the gauntlet could have been closed due to work being done on it (being dismantled). This is what really annoys me with mmos and GW2 is particular. Massive content are added and removed in a flash instead of slowly phasing them in and out.

Well they did have something similar after Holloween where they rebuilt the fountain, but yeah it doesn’t feel very living when things magically appear and disappear out of nowhere.

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Posted by: Requiem.8769

Requiem.8769

Wooden Potatoes on YouTube.

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Posted by: Pacifica.9576

Pacifica.9576

Seems like putting a book in Durmand Priory would be the most logical answer

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Posted by: God Of Fissures.8627

God Of Fissures.8627

They sorta did this with that Marjory’s Journal. It replays a cinematic from one of the events. Maybe something along that direction.

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Posted by: Sindex.9520

Sindex.9520

It also boggles the mind that the writers instead of presenting things in game are still writing outside of the game. You have certain short stories that are presented better outside of the game then in game. People who do not read these stories or refuse too, are basically missing out on the well rounded character devlopment. Since in game representation (or equivalent) does not exist.

Actually I thought the writers were starting to learn this lesson with SAB update that just came out. Then they went back and made a short story about Moto’s personal background on the GW2 website. Really? You could not have in game representation of these people and places in Rata Sum? I don’t care if you can’t convey the same emotions in game. You can still try.

The excuse of “we don’t have enough resources” would be understandable; if A-net did not decide that the 2 weeks system is the best way to deliver a story. If you guys need more time on something then cancel this ludicrous two week temporary content schedule. Since it’s not telling a good coherent thought out narrative in game.

(edited by Sindex.9520)

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Posted by: BobbyStein

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BobbyStein

Guild Wars 2 Narrative Lead

Next

It seems like there’s some misunderstanding regarding the purpose of the short stories that we publish on the Web site. They are not meant to “write outside the game” such that the game is unplayable without them, nor are they meant to provide vital information to the in-game story for a particular Living World release. They are purely optional stories meant to provide additional context and lore for those who care. If we felt that the inclusion of this information was critical to understanding the plot or playing the content then we would put it inside the game, plain and simple.

On a related note, some of the lore stories use imagery or situations that would be more difficult, time consuming, or expensive to replicate in the game. Some wouldn’t add anything meaningful to gameplay. So if you’re finding it stressful that these optional pieces exist external to a Living World release, I suggest not reading them.

You also have to keep in mind that we’re pacing the Living World stories such that you may not understand the full picture inside a given release. For example, Scarlet made her first appearance in August but she was hinted at in prior months. Her story has not resolved at this time, therefore we haven’t divulged some significant details about her origins or motivations. It’s understandable why some people would be upset or impatient by not getting these details all at once, but rest assured that we’re not conveniently forgetting about these tidbits—we’re just saving them for later.

Regarding SAB World 2, there is a story that is presented in-game. To experience it, first you must beat World 2 and then preview World 3. I won’t spoil it, so I encourage you to figure out the rest.

Thanks, as always, for the feedback. We read as much as we can.

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Posted by: Elbegast.6970

Elbegast.6970

@BobbyStein
Don’t be condescending. You accuse us of misunderstanding the purpose of the website stories while the in-game storytelling is so poor as to be nonexistent. Then you tell us that it would be better if we don’t read the web stories?!? If that’s going to be your attitude, why bother to even write them?

The in-game plot, what little there seems to be, is stretched so thin that we, the players, are forgetting the ‘tidbits’. Your ‘pacing’ is far too slow. You may eventually give us some answers but only after we have forgotten the questions. Where does a player have to go to understand what is happening in this game? Because the game itself isn’t providing any answers whatsoever.

(edited by Elbegast.6970)

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Posted by: BobbyStein

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BobbyStein

Guild Wars 2 Narrative Lead

Next

@BobbyStein
Don’t be condescending.

I don’t believe I am. Please explain.

You accuse us of misunderstanding the purpose of the website stories while the in-game storytelling is so poor as to be nonexistent.

Who did I accuse? Some people have expressed confusion or anger over some supplemental short stories on the official Web site. I was merely responding to that. Also, while I appreciate your honest opinion, I should remind you that not everyone shares it. I know that may be hard to believe but it’s true.

Then you tell us that it would be better if we don’t read the web stories?!? If that’s going to be your attitude, why bother to even write them?

Because some people appreciate them. If you don’t, that’s fine. If that stresses you out, don’t read them. It’s OK. Seriously. This stuff is meant to be enjoyed, not to annoy anyone.

The in-game plot, what little there seems to be, is stretched so thin that we, the players, are forgetting the ‘tidbits’. Your ‘pacing’ is far too slow. You may eventually give us some answers but only after we have forgotten the questions. Where does a player have to go to understand what is happening in this game? Because the game itself isn’t providing any answers whatsoever.

Actually, there are a lot more details in the game than you realize. Either you’re not catching them because they are subtle, or you may have missed the content entirely. I’m not sure in your case because I have no idea what you’ve played, what you’ve seen, or what you remember.

Some people understand what’s going on, others don’t, and some of that is due to a distinct lack of direction in regards to experiencing the Living World story. We’ve been aware of that limitation since day one, and we’re currently working on a system to address that before the end of the year. I sympathize with that. Trust me.

Can we improve on our storytelling or means of delivering plot? Sure. Who couldn’t! That’s why we appreciate honest, critical, and constructive feedback a lot more than rants or straight-up complaints.

Again, thanks for playing the game and taking the time to post. It means a lot to us.

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Posted by: JayMack.8295

JayMack.8295

I appreciate the short stories, Bobby, and I completely understand that the medium you are delivering them in allows you to do more. I’m not expecting to see these short stories in-game.

However….

I do think more could be done to tie the stories into the game a little bit more. Having NPCs that talk about sections of Moto’s past, journals we could find to piece together what may have happened to him in the past. An NPC who’s heard a rumour that he’s still moping after his girlfriend, etc.

I don’t want to walk up to one NPC or Moto himself and have him tell me his life story – it would feel weird. It’s not something people do unless they love themselves, but being able to piece together parts of his life or motivations through stories, journals, etc. would be great.

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Posted by: BobbyStein

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BobbyStein

Guild Wars 2 Narrative Lead

Next

Good suggestions, JayMack. Thanks for taking the time to share that here.

The scenes in outside of Ketto’s lab go into some of these details, but I agree that having additional, optional items that add more depth to the story is always a good thing. We sometimes include this type of content in our LW releases (Southsun had journals) and other times we rely on dialog. The more we can include, the more people can better understand the story.

I also agree that having lore-dump NPCs is rarely effective, and often annoying.

We’ll keep trying to improve with each release.

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Posted by: Elbegast.6970

Elbegast.6970

@BobbyStein
The condescension is prevalent in both of your above posts. You are essentially telling us (me) that we (I) don’t understand what is going on with story because we are (I am) playing the game wrong or that we’re (I’m) not paying enough attention.

I could talk for hours about the lore and story of Guild Wars 1. I know those stories like the back of my hand. The only plot I have picked up in GW2 is that some mole people and Charr attacked us for some reason. Angry crabs attacked us for some reason. A walking plant attacked us for some reason. Pirates showed up and attacked us for some reason. Merchants came in on a flying boat for some reason. The Queen made a speech in which she said nothing for no apparent reason. Another walking plant attacked us for some reason. The Queen made a statement in which she said nothing of any substance, again for no apparent reason. What is going on here?

Nothing ties together in any cohesive manner. It all just seems randomly thrown together. It’s like that episode of South Park where a tank of manatees are tossing out beach balls with random words and you family guys are basing the stories on those random words. And every new Living Story release is just piling upon the confusion rather than giving an explanation. Yes, it’s frustrating as all get out. Yes, it makes me angry. I don’t play the game to farm zergfests. I play the game to be entertained by the story. As it stands, I’m not entertained. I desperately want to be but all I see are some random open ended short stories that lack any sort of resolution.

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Posted by: Marcus Greythorne.6843

Marcus Greythorne.6843

You also have to keep in mind that we’re pacing the Living World stories such that you may not understand the full picture inside a given release. For example, Scarlet made her first appearance in August but she was hinted at in prior months. Her story has not resolved at this time, therefore we haven’t divulged some significant details about her origins or motivations. It’s understandable why some people would be upset or impatient by not getting these details all at once, but rest assured that we’re not conveniently forgetting about these tidbits—we’re just saving them for later.

hmm… well we still don’t know much about Canach and his living story chapter is pretty much over, no?

I wonder if there was any decision against releasing longer writings ingame because of the needed ressources for translation, voiceovers etc. Almost every text ingame (related to lore or events) is kept short in those dialogue boxes.

Is it that reading is considered as bad now and that most gamers skip those “pages” of text, so those “nerds” should go to the internet instead? The excuse that a good shortstory needs pictures to be strong leaves me baffled. As a teacher I would really support (longer) writings in the game to reach a much bigger audience of players. If only one out of hundred players would find the love for books by playing a videogame, this would already be a huge win.

I understand that ressources are spare though. This means that depth of the game gets lost because of the Living Story format, which makes me a bit sad.

http://gw2style.com/index.php – show your look and rate others – great filters!!

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Posted by: Daelin.6782

Daelin.6782

I don’t know if this has been suggested in the past, but I was wondering if it would be possible to animate the short stories that are posted, and have them play in-game as ‘artsy’ cutscenes when you begin the LS content?

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Posted by: Marcus Greythorne.6843

Marcus Greythorne.6843

I don’t know if this has been suggested in the past, but I was wondering if it would be possible to animate the short stories that are posted, and have them play in-game as ‘artsy’ cutscenes when you begin the LS content?

…which would take a lot of ressources. They have few and just a copy and paste to one item which bears that text and drops from mobs would be enough for me (and probably a few others). They could slowly expand these items in the future too. (creating a bookshelf in your home instance, adding more books,…)

http://gw2style.com/index.php – show your look and rate others – great filters!!

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Posted by: Sindex.9520

Sindex.9520

we’re just saving them for later.

Really now? How many years Mr. Stein are we going to have to wait for closure to all of these loose ends. Including plot lines from GW1, like the one I reference below:

This quote from Linsey is related to how the MOX quest ended in GW1 without any explanation of the assassination attempts on Selma, Prince Bokka, and Emperor Kisu. Before Guild Wars Beyond hit a dead end.

Linsey Murdock:

Don’t worry, it’s not just some random psycho, his identity may be revealed at a later date.

Where: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:M.O.X.
Topic: Why so cliffhangers?

Not to mention all the other unanswered questions from GW1 (e.g. Evennia MIA in Ascalon) that in turn echo your words of “we will explain latter.” When it comes to any type of resolution in GW2, it’s a complete and utter mess (with plot holes or it’s anticlimactic). A Doctor Who parody with Rowan Atkinson humorously referenced this type of poor plot device just being thrown around.

You have now crossed the first year line, and your already practically shelving everything. Which causes huge pacing problems in your “structured narrative.” People have been complaining about this since day one. This is why the personal story failed convey a interesting narrative, and same with the living story feeling like a disorderly mess.

What your doing is introducing a bunch of new characters, while most of the old cast is sitting in the bleachers. Waiting for “we will explain latter” causality. Even the new characters are not fully fleshed out; so in turn why should the players care? It’s conveying to all of us that your driving the narrative as if you were driving a car blindfolded.

The suggestion that JayMack gave Mt. Stein has been echoed from other people including myself on numerous occasions. For the love of all the Tyrian gods you created a character who is a private investigator. I am talking about Marjory Delaqua. Why are you not using her? Is she twirling her thumbs?

(edited by Sindex.9520)

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Posted by: hedix.1986

hedix.1986

It seems like there’s some misunderstanding regarding the purpose of the short stories that we publish on the Web site. They are not meant to “write outside the game” such that the game is unplayable without them, nor are they meant to provide vital information to the in-game story for a particular Living World release.

Not meant to? Perhaps. But it’s exactly the situation atm, from player’s perspective. Since you failed to provide us with information on Scarlet in-game except a few sentences or present her as a fully fleshed character, that short story was our only source to find out who this crazy plant was and why on Earth (on Tyria?) would she be after the queen.

We certainly don’t find these stories “stressful” (seriously?). Rather, I find the lack of such stories in-game to lead to confusion a la “who is this character and why should I care”. It’s poor presentation. It’s not that there shouldn’t be additional stories. You should flesh out your characters in-game, otherwise I don’t really see their point, in-game.

This could have been done very easily through NPC’s, especially Emissary Vorpp. He was conducting an investigation on Scarlet, but that investigation did’t give us any information. It was a great opportunity for storytelling in-game!

The in-game plot, what little there seems to be, is stretched so thin that we, the players, are forgetting the ‘tidbits’. Your ‘pacing’ is far too slow. You may eventually give us some answers but only after we have forgotten the questions. Where does a player have to go to understand what is happening in this game? Because the game itself isn’t providing any answers whatsoever.

Indeed.
Slow pacing does not mean random party crasher 2D characters who are pretty much only interesting because 1) it was announced they’re our personal nemesis and 2) because of an unfinished story in a blog post.

I also agree that having lore-dump NPCs is rarely effective, and often annoying.

Yeah, it’s still beats an out-of-game short story.

[QQ] – ex RoS, current Piken Square
[DV] – megaboss community

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Posted by: AlexMc.2083

AlexMc.2083

It feels like people are outright trying not to understand anything in the living story just to prove a point.

“Even after death, I shall return! And all my enemies will burn, burn, BURN!”

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Posted by: Pacifica.9576

Pacifica.9576

It seems like there’s some misunderstanding regarding the purpose of the short stories that we publish on the Web site. They are not meant to “write outside the game” such that the game is unplayable without them, nor are they meant to provide vital information to the in-game story for a particular Living World release. They are purely optional stories meant to provide additional context and lore for those who care. If we felt that the inclusion of this information was critical to understanding the plot or playing the content then we would put it inside the game, plain and simple.

On a related note, some of the lore stories use imagery or situations that would be more difficult, time consuming, or expensive to replicate in the game. Some wouldn’t add anything meaningful to gameplay. So if you’re finding it stressful that these optional pieces exist external to a Living World release, I suggest not reading them.

You also have to keep in mind that we’re pacing the Living World stories such that you may not understand the full picture inside a given release. For example, Scarlet made her first appearance in August but she was hinted at in prior months. Her story has not resolved at this time, therefore we haven’t divulged some significant details about her origins or motivations. It’s understandable why some people would be upset or impatient by not getting these details all at once, but rest assured that we’re not conveniently forgetting about these tidbits—we’re just saving them for later.

Regarding SAB World 2, there is a story that is presented in-game. To experience it, first you must beat World 2 and then preview World 3. I won’t spoil it, so I encourage you to figure out the rest.

Thanks, as always, for the feedback. We read as much as we can.

The problem I’m seeing is that there seems to be a disconnect between what you guys feel is “important” and what some of the critics see as “important”. Take Scarlet for example, her short story explains her origin and the vehicle through which she became a villain. I’m wondering how this wouldn’t be important to the plot of the living story?

I see you’ve also commented on the fact that the living world story is not something that can be explained in one release. The problem I see with this is that the current story arc took almost an entire year(I believe 8 months from frost and flame to Scarlet’s reveal?) to reveal “The Big Bad”. To me, the problem isn’t that we didn’t find out every fact about Scarlet’s life. The problem is it took so long to reveal her that people expected to get a greater picture of what the hell was going on. Instead we just get an introduction and the very next patch is SAB

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Posted by: Shiren.9532

Shiren.9532

I can agree that to some extent the Living Story issues that some people (including myself) comes down to patience, but how much patience is needed?

We’ve been following these plots since January/February (unless you want to go back to Southsun/Halloween) and the Aetherblades and Scarlet aren’t much different from Team Rocket. I don’t have a reason to care about either of them – they pop up to attack for the sake of attacking and their motivations are non-existent, shallow or unknown (it doesn’t matter which because after this long all three are the same).

We have a world threatened by dragons and we are spending month after month blasting off the Aetherblades. The story has given me no reason to care about Scarlet or the Aetherblades (and I still don’t understand what the Molten Alliance are supposed to be about other than a convenient army).

The boring or shallow characters (I can understand this is, to a certain extent, subjective) don’t help things, but the story itself isn’t very engaging. When I was watching Lost there were mysteries in every single episode, unexplained events and seemingly unconnected things which often came together in an exciting way. The thing that’s different about Lost compared to the Living Story is that I cared about and was invested in the show, the characters and the plot the entire time. I didn’t have to wait for the season finale for the show to give me something engaging, to give me a reason to care about what was happening, it was there all the time, the big reveals and the moments of clarity were the pay off, but the show was usually engaging without them.

One of the things about GW2 is that it’s an entire world we can explore, it’s not a TV show with selected scenes and full control over what the audience sees (so if the game is the entire island, we can explore most of it, with the TV you can hide the others and the tail end survivors, in Lost the MMO you can’t). You can’t tell the same story in an MMO that you can in a TV show. MMOs are whole worlds, we can explore the Flame Legion territory when the story deals with them, we can visit their part of the world and see what they are up to. When a big situation like the Molten Alliance arises, it feels shallow when the rest of the world is business as usual (and the “Living World” doesn’t quite feel alive). When Scarlet has some supposed back story involving all these masters, it’s surprising that no-one has ever mentioned her prior to now, and few (if none) of her masters even mention her in the game.

When Winds of Change was happening in GW1, entire maps changed. Zones had new mobs which represented the old conflicts in the story being resolved, but also new conflicts arriving. As you progressed through the story, NPCs around the world had special dialogue which uncovered new parts of the mystery. A lot of the back story of Reiko, Miku and Ashu was told in random NPC conversations (hint: you could have done this with Scarlet’s background), it was a mystery you could follow with each update and it helped sell the idea that this conflict involved the Canthan people and the idea that the world was alive and changing based on the events that occured. There was also a much stronger focus on mission sized quests which carried the core parts of the story, something I don’t think the Living Story does very much of. The face of Cantha changed significantly in a similair period of time to what has passed for the Living Story this year. Aside from quality of life changes and tonnes of mini-games, the Tyria of August 2013 is almost identical to the Tyria of August 2012. The world doesn’t feel very alive, part of the problem is the temporary content, part of the problem is that the bulk of updates seems to be mini-games and part of the problem is that the story isn’t giving us much to care about. I cared about Zei Ri very early on. I don’t care about a lot of the Living Story protagonists (given how little has happened so far, there are probably too many of them already) and I certainly don’t care about Scarlet.

(edited by Shiren.9532)

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Posted by: moronwmachinegun.3815

moronwmachinegun.3815

Perhaps one member of a Living Story team can be the designated “Seed Planter” to take little crumbs and put them in-game in a couple of spots (say Rata Sum and The Grove for Scarlett) ahead of the actual release? They would have to work with the previous LS team to make sure their changes mesh well together. For example

Giant meteor strikes Tyria, ends up being new Elder Dragon – have a couple of NPCs in Rata Sum 4-8 weeks before the event occurs start talking about how their astronomer cousin has found a new object in the sky, 0-2 weeks have that astronomer running around Rata Sum like a madman claiming the world is going to end.

For SAB a couple of the more obscure NPCs could easily have their dialogue updated to tell Moto’s story.

The giant tent over the Great Collapse is a great idea, but a real jamboree like that wouldn’t have been so secretive – there should have been NPCs – citizens, children, guards, etc – excited, happy, and concerned about the large event before it happened.

It doesn’t need to be a lot, with the large number of players in-game any changes would be rapidly detected and theorized.

Or, as others have said put in a “newspaper” for prior lore, and newspaper criers around the maps with suitable rumors and red herrings. Take up stories from news/fake news and put a Tyrian spin on it. I’m thinking National Enquirer meets the Onion with the occasional nugget of truth in there. Have fun with it!

Since these are simple text additions to a large update, I don’t see them as being particularly hard or requiring a lot of SQA time.

Quaggan is not a bad calf. Quaggan is a good little calf.

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Posted by: Drakkon.4782

Drakkon.4782

The giant tent over the Great Collapse is a great idea, but a real jamboree like that wouldn’t have been so secretive – there should have been NPCs – citizens, children, guards, etc – excited, happy, and concerned about the large event before it happened.

That’s called a “preamble” in narrative terms, and it is quite useful in moving a story along. ANet has been effective at keeping a story going into the next segment for stragglers who were just one achievement behind, but they also should be foreshadowing the next part of the living story, both to give the living story a narrative link through events, but also to reveal details that will become important in the next section and tie up loose ends in the previous one. Any loose ends not tied up could and should be considered a foreshadow in and of itself that it will come back later to be revisited. Annual events don’t need to be tied up in any way other than seeing NPCs cleaning up from the event, whereas build up beforehand would be nice to give a sense of impending excitement.

And don’t be that store that starts playing Xmas music in September (I’M LOOKING AT YOU LOWES!). That’s a bit too far in advance. Just a little foreshadowing and preamble would be nice.

“People don’t hate Scarlet the way Game of Thrones
fans hate Joffrey. They hate her the way Star Wars
fans hate Jar Jar Binks.”-not a direct quote, but still true.

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Posted by: Marcus Greythorne.6843

Marcus Greythorne.6843

The scenes in outside of Ketto’s lab go into some of these details, but I agree that having additional, optional items that add more depth to the story is always a good thing. We sometimes include this type of content in our LW releases (Southsun had journals) and other times we rely on dialog.

Thanks for this reply Bobby! I really like the journals on Southsun and Ebonhawke but I’d suggest to unlock these writings in some kind of UI (like a list of entries) once found. The reason why I think this would be important is because those entries would have a certain order which makes the whole story easier to look at than small fractals of info spread around in the world. Unlockables like this will also be highly motivating to complete… people will want to get rid of all those question marks in a list in order to get more lore entries. Furthermore those optional bits will make it interesting again to explore the world (in case these are rare random spawns in some specific offroad locations).

http://gw2style.com/index.php – show your look and rate others – great filters!!

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Posted by: Elbegast.6970

Elbegast.6970

The scenes in outside of Ketto’s lab go into some of these details, but I agree that having additional, optional items that add more depth to the story is always a good thing. We sometimes include this type of content in our LW releases (Southsun had journals) and other times we rely on dialog.

Thanks for this reply Bobby! I really like the journals on Southsun and Ebonhawke but I’d suggest to unlock these writings in some kind of UI (like a list of entries) once found. The reason why I think this would be important is because those entries would have a certain order which makes the whole story easier to look at than small fractals of info spread around in the world. Unlockables like this will also be highly motivating to complete… people will want to get rid of all those question marks in a list in order to get more lore entries. Furthermore those optional bits will make it interesting again to explore the world (in case these are rare random spawns in some specific offroad locations).

R. L. Stein Jr. is no ‘Jovial Bob’ but I could really get behind a trail of in-game books. Providing, of course, those books are logged into an interface that would put them in order and allow me to read them at my own leisure.

I’m just so sick of website-exclusive stories that are not even hinted at in-game, aside from the launcher window, that is.

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Posted by: BilboBaggins.5620

BilboBaggins.5620

This poster came up with a lore delivery idea that I think is awesome! A Tyrian newspaper!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/lwd/Tyria-needs-its-newspaper/first#post2784324

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Posted by: BobbyStein

Previous

BobbyStein

Guild Wars 2 Narrative Lead

Next

R. L. Stein Jr. is no ‘Jovial Bob’…

I don’t believe we know each other outside of the forums, so that statement is a little…strange.

…but I could really get behind a trail of in-game books. Providing, of course, those books are logged into an interface that would put them in order and allow me to read them at my own leisure.

The original plan was to have in-game books somewhat like the ones made available in the GW1 Bonus Mission Pack content. We wrote nearly 100 of them but were unable to implement them due to the book tech getting cut from development in the months leading up to GW2’s release. We may revisit the idea one day.

I’m just so sick of website-exclusive stories that are not even hinted at in-game, aside from the launcher window, that is.

Design discussions regarding the updated story interface are ongoing, but the plan is to group narrative information and player progress together like how we handle the Personal Story entries, but for other content types.

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Posted by: BobbyStein

Previous

BobbyStein

Guild Wars 2 Narrative Lead

Next

The giant tent over the Great Collapse is a great idea, but a real jamboree like that wouldn’t have been so secretive – there should have been NPCs – citizens, children, guards, etc – excited, happy, and concerned about the large event before it happened.

That’s called a “preamble” in narrative terms, and it is quite useful in moving a story along. ANet has been effective at keeping a story going into the next segment for stragglers who were just one achievement behind, but they also should be foreshadowing the next part of the living story, both to give the living story a narrative link through events, but also to reveal details that will become important in the next section and tie up loose ends in the previous one. Any loose ends not tied up could and should be considered a foreshadow in and of itself that it will come back later to be revisited. Annual events don’t need to be tied up in any way other than seeing NPCs cleaning up from the event, whereas build up beforehand would be nice to give a sense of impending excitement.

And don’t be that store that starts playing Xmas music in September (I’M LOOKING AT YOU LOWES!). That’s a bit too far in advance. Just a little foreshadowing and preamble would be nice.

We do this when we have the bandwidth, but it’s sometimes difficult to find the time and resources while juggling so many self-contained releases. I agree, though, that it’s an effective way of connecting things together, and we should strive to implement them more often.

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Posted by: anzenketh.3759

anzenketh.3759

The original plan was to have in-game books somewhat like the ones made available in the GW1 Bonus Mission Pack content. We wrote nearly 100 of them but were unable to implement them due to the book tech getting cut from development in the months leading up to GW2’s release. We may revisit the idea one day.

I thought it was weird to have all these book carts but little book to them. I understand that this would be something of low priority. But I would really really really enjoy this.

Perhaps the books can also solve a lot of the Missed out on the story questions with the living story. Finding those story posts on the web is going to become problematic down the line. Would have to sift through 40+ blog posts to find them.

Instead lay a few books around the areas that those stories happened in. Add some achievements to it call it Living story catchup or something this will drive players to read them if they wish(if not they can just go visit the place and interact with the book to get the achievement). Then new players can have the depth that a lot of people were complaining that was missing in the beginning of the living stories. Along with the items you have planned with possible replays/cutscenes. Would work well.

I think this will solve a LOT of the depth complaints and lore problems that a majority of Lore Buffs complain about. Best part is some of the code may be already done.

In Game: Storm Bluff Isle — Anzz, Anzenketh Kyoto

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Posted by: Elbegast.6970

Elbegast.6970

R. L. Stein Jr. is no ‘Jovial Bob’…

I don’t believe we know each other outside of the forums, so that statement is a little…strange.

We have never met face to face but you have played my games and I have played yours. There’s a good chance you wouldn’t be in your position if not for my career.

And ‘Jovial Bob’ is a reference to R.L. Stine. You are R. L. Stein Jr. Unrelated yet both of you are writers. It’s rather intriguing.

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Posted by: BobbyStein

Previous

BobbyStein

Guild Wars 2 Narrative Lead

Next

We have never met face to face but you have played my games and I have played yours. There’s a good chance you wouldn’t be in your position if not for my career.

Now I’m intrigued. Which of your games have I played?

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Posted by: Elbegast.6970

Elbegast.6970

We have never met face to face but you have played my games and I have played yours. There’s a good chance you wouldn’t be in your position if not for my career.

Now I’m intrigued. Which of your games have I played?

You tell me.
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,23689/

EDIT: That list is rather incomplete but it’s enough to get the gist. I’ve worked on many of my brother’s games, as well, and have gone uncredited on many. My brother is Chris, by the way.

(edited by Elbegast.6970)

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Posted by: BobbyStein

Previous

BobbyStein

Guild Wars 2 Narrative Lead

Next

We have never met face to face but you have played my games and I have played yours. There’s a good chance you wouldn’t be in your position if not for my career.

Now I’m intrigued. Which of your games have I played?

You tell me.
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,23689/

Pleasure to meet you (virtually, at least). I played Brute Force years ago while at Microsoft. It was fun. I watched some friends play Wing Commander when I was in high school. I didn’t have a gaming Windows machine until I entered the work force some years later, so I missed out on some of the classics.

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Posted by: Elbegast.6970

Elbegast.6970

We have never met face to face but you have played my games and I have played yours. There’s a good chance you wouldn’t be in your position if not for my career.

Now I’m intrigued. Which of your games have I played?

You tell me.
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,23689/

Pleasure to meet you (virtually, at least). I played Brute Force years ago while at Microsoft. It was fun. I watched some friends play Wing Commander when I was in high school. I didn’t have a gaming Windows machine until I entered the work force some years later, so I missed out on some of the classics.

It’s my very good pleasure to meet you, as well. I’m glad you enjoyed Brute Force. It holds a special place in my heart. I’m very proud of it’s unique squad-based gameplay. I only wish it would have sold more copies but I suppose that is a wish shared by most developers in regards to their creations. ; )

But anyway, back on topic. More in-game books would be lovely. I would not be opposed to more in-game storytelling, regardless of the method in which it is conveyed.

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Posted by: Shew.6827

Shew.6827

Hope you guys get to revisit the book implementation one day. As far as cutscenes go, what if there was an NPC puppeteer in Divinity’s Reach that transposed these ongoing stories to puppet shows? Given DR’s unimplemented minigames, etc., maybe this would be a cool direction to go. The puppeteer could refer players to the library where these books, which would obviously be more descriptive than the shows, could be read.

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Posted by: Elbegast.6970

Elbegast.6970

Hope you guys get to revisit the book implementation one day. As far as cutscenes go, what if there was an NPC puppeteer in Divinity’s Reach that transposed these ongoing stories to puppet shows? Given DR’s unimplemented minigames, etc., maybe this would be a cool direction to go. The puppeteer could refer players to the library where these books, which would obviously be more descriptive than the shows, could be read.

All we need is a booth, a punchman and a bottler. Fond childhood memories.

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Posted by: Varielle.9074

Varielle.9074

I kinda wish the characters we meet in game are not just plot devices… aside from a few.. most NPCs get introduced then they are completely forgotten and don’t appear anymore

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Posted by: Mif.3471

Mif.3471

Lore vehicle?

You mean like the Batmobile?

:3

Tarnished Coast | Best cookies in all of Tyria

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Posted by: WatchTheShow.7203

WatchTheShow.7203

… and why on Earth (on Tyria?) would she be after the queen?

I didn’t read the outside content on the GW2 page immediately. I jumped right into the game and then read the short story about Scarlet a day later. While I was in game though, it was obvious to me that Scarlet clearly did not want the Charr and the Humans united under the treaty, which would explain why she was after the queen. Charr and humans are stronger fighting against dragons together. They are weaker and easier to conquer by the dragons if they’re already worn out killing off each other.

It’s unclear why she wouldn’t want them united, but one of my theories is:
She is a closet minion for the plant dragon (Mordremoth?) and is knowingly/unknowingly carrying out his will.

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Posted by: Elbegast.6970

Elbegast.6970

… and why on Earth (on Tyria?) would she be after the queen?

I didn’t read the outside content on the GW2 page immediately. I jumped right into the game and then read the short story about Scarlet a day later. While I was in game though, it was obvious to me that Scarlet clearly did not want the Charr and the Humans united under the treaty, which would explain why she was after the queen. Charr and humans are stronger fighting against dragons together. They are weaker and easier to conquer by the dragons if they’re already worn out killing off each other.

It’s unclear why she wouldn’t want them united, but one of my theories is:
She is a closet minion for the plant dragon (Mordremoth?) and is knowingly/unknowingly carrying out his will.

Infinite Coil Reactor (Inquest Lab, replacement for Thaumanova Reactor), Zone Green…..death blossoms but no minion.

Crucible of Eternity (Center of the Infinite Coil Reactor), Primary purpose of facility is to study Elder Dragon energy, Lab Green, Subject Alpha…ability known as ‘Teeth Of Mordremoth’.

Scarlet Briar…all too conveniently a ‘graduate’ of all 3 Asuran Colleges.

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Posted by: Merus.9475

Merus.9475

I feel like we really should have believed we understood Scarlet’s motivations, particularly because it’s entirely in character for Scarlet to lie about why she wants what she wants.

The biggest problem with Scarlet is the assumption that the driving need for our characters was to stop Scarlet, but for many players the driving need was ‘who is Scarlet?’ The story pacing is very different for those two motivations, and if the driving need is ‘who is Scarlet?’ then the story on the website ends up being critical plot information.

I’m disappointed in general with how little environmental storytelling ArenaNet does – particularly with a vehicle like the Super Adventure Box, where the environments are generated based partly on Moto’s subconscious. Why couldn’t we go ‘behind the scenes’ or, even better, drop into an 8-bit representation of Moto’s struggles? ArenaNet wants to put the plot into the world, but the current approaches aren’t always effective.

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Posted by: enamel.6239

enamel.6239

There’s a good chance you wouldn’t be in your position if not for my career.

Did you have to dislocate your own shoulder to pat yourself on the back with such furious vigor?

How did you get a computer all the way up on that high, high horse of yours?

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Posted by: Elbegast.6970

Elbegast.6970

There’s a good chance you wouldn’t be in your position if not for my career.

Did you have to dislocate your own shoulder to pat yourself on the back with such furious vigor?

How did you get a computer all the way up on that high, high horse of yours?

It’s quite simple. The equine’s legs buckled under the weight of my portly exterior. ; )