Guild Wars 2

Yep that’s right, tragedy. Every truly great story has some sort of tragedy that allowed it to relate to the audience. The Living Story as of now has some tragedy, but not anything that really shocks us or affects us on a deeper level.

Some people are advocating the death of Trahearne, Pale Tree, Queen Jennah ect; however this would be the wrong course of action, killing off hated or only semi lovable characters does little in the sense of effective character kill off.

I think the best thing to do during the next season of LS, is to truly build up the characters of Marjory, Kasmeer, Braham, Taimi, and Rox. Then at the end of the season, take two compatible characters that are closer than the others……then kill one off.

Here is where it needs to change, the PC needs to decide which one dies and which one lives. For example, Kasmeer and Marjory are split up and are fighting enemy forces, you only have time to rescue one and both know it.

What I’m trying to get at here, is that the story needs to have a bit more darkness in it. Everything seems to be going fine for DE 2.0 but in a world being torn apart by dragons that cant be the reality of the situation much longer if the LS wants to stay believable and immersive. I also think its crucial that the PC decides the fate of the teammates and not a one track dialogue where Kasmeer is the one to die in everyone’s story. If you want to make the options of the two characters static that’s fine, but its important that the PC is involved in the development of the LS.

In the end I just feel its necessary to make the LS a little darker, and killing a NPC no one cares about isn’t going to cut it. The original DE lost Snaff to a dragon, and it made for an interesting story as the guild tried to heal itself of his loss. I don’t mean that the PC group needs to fall apart, but it needs to be shaken up.

Any thoughts on if the LS needs to truly be a bit darker?

P.S. I don’t agree with killing Trahearne, it does nothing but give fan service to his haters.

I suppose killing thousands of people and destroying one of the most important city on the continent was not tragic enough?

Well, that’s call “A million is a statistic” on TV Tropes. In a fictional story, the audience isn’t going to care about a bunch of nameless extras dying as much as a few named characters they’ve grown to care about.

Of course, the problem with killing off Kasmeer or Marjory, or both would be that the gay characters in a cast featuring them getting killed off happens often enough in a a lot of fiction that people would accuse Areanet of killing them off because they’re gay (as silly as that would be). Still, it would probably have more of an effect than killing Braham since he doesn’t seem to be as popular. Taimi could work, she’s already shown a tendency to be reckless and she does seem to be one of the more popular members of that group.

lordkrall.7241:

I suppose killing thousands of people and destroying one of the most important city on the continent was not tragic enough?

I’m not saying it wasn’t tragedy, but something like that on a mass scale in a mmo is simply not effective enough to be considered the same as tragedy on a personal level.

Belinda’s death didn’t do it for you?

Becka Williams.4978:

Belinda’s death didn’t do it for you?

Not really. Neither did Tybalt’s.

And what I want to see is tragedy more of a purest sort, not just killing off someone to reach through the screen and hit a player in the feels. No, I want it to be . . .

. . . I want Oedipus Rex and Antigone level tragedy.

To quote myself on a similar thread concerning the possibility of the Pale Tree getting killed…

ShinjoNaomi.1896:

By the Six, I hope not…
We have enough stupid, pointless deaths as it is, for no other reason then to just have people dying.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying characters should /never/ die… It’s war, after all. But Game of Thrones style character killing turned me off completely to those books and even more so to the show.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Becka Williams.4978:

Belinda’s death didn’t do it for you?

Not really. Neither did Tybalt’s.

And what I want to see is tragedy more of a purest sort, not just killing off someone to reach through the screen and hit a player in the feels. No, I want it to be . . .

. . . I want Oedipus Rex and Antigone level tragedy.

So, essentially what you’re saying is that it doesn’t have your personally approved level of tragedy. Which is a different thread title, but I guess it’s too late for that.

Becka Williams.4978:

Belinda’s death didn’t do it for you?

That was only tragedy for the weak minded who didn’t instantly realize upon her introduction that her purpose was to die “tragically.”

I think I should have expanded onto the way I envisioned tragedy to occur. First off, I am totally against pointlessly killing characters that don’t contribute much to the story, such as Trehearne, the Pale Tree, and others. Those kind of deaths do no good to advance the story or the main characters at all. I believe that with a main character kill off, it will allow for the much needed development of the current PC group.

Tragedy shouldn’t be tossed around lightly, which I feel it has. The writers need to pick a few select instances to create a big tragedy. Pointlessly killing off people Game of Thrones style, or introducing side characters solely to kill them off is poor story telling. Belinda served no purpose in the current LS, if she had been allowed to instead stick around longer and form more attachments and contribute more to the overall story, I believe her death would have been more effective.

We know they considered killing Marjory at the end of season 1 and did not have the guts to do it.
Taimi is safe (at least on screen death), because they can’t kill kids because of the game’s rating (I still don’t know about “Raisin” from LA).
The death of an iconic character matters to you as a reader/player/watcher of a movie if you have an emotional connection to that character. Did we have a chance to get to like Belinda? We practically knew she would die from the second the told Marjory she has to go to Brisbane Wildlands because something dangerous might be there (and that was the epilogue of season 1).

Which characters are we emotionally involved with? A few from Destiny’s Edge perhaps (For me it’s Rytlock, Eir and Caithe, but not Zoija and Logan), Traherne (who had at least a character development and gets too much hate from the community) and the new DE 2.0

PS: Game of Thrones hardly kills off characters you don’t care about. If you think that you have not read Steven King books.

Gorani.7205:

We know they considered killing Marjory at the end of season 1 and did not have the guts to do it.
Taimi is safe (at least on screen death), because they can’t kill kids because of the game’s rating (I still don’t know about “Raisin” from LA).
The death of an iconic character matters to you as a reader/player/watcher of a movie if you have an emotional connection to that character. Did we have a chance to get to like Belinda? We practically knew she would die from the second the told Marjory she has to go to Brisbane Wildlands because something dangerous might be there (and that was the epilogue of season 1).

Which characters are we emotionally involved with? A few from Destiny’s Edge perhaps (For me it’s Rytlock, Eir and Caithe, but not Zoija and Logan), Traherne (who had at least a character development and gets too much hate from the community) and the new DE 2.0

PS: Game of Thrones hardly kills off characters you don’t care about. If you think that you have not read Steven King books.

Ya, Taimi is safe because of the rating rules, but who is Raisin? Also, GOT does a lot of pointless killing, not important character killing………not including the red wedding.

For there to be proper tragedy, there would need to be proper character development that makes one attached to characters. While the forums may be filled with “erhmagerd, this character!!!”, the average person doesn’t tend to pay much attention to the lackluster characters and the little development they get on screen anyways, both as of late and from the beginning of the game.
Simply put, Anet is very good at thinking many interesting character designs and personalities, but is extremely horrible at giving them any proper development in any way. The clutter themselves with too many things at the same time, then make a “Holding your hand forever” situation so that your character feels simply like a beholder, not a deciding factor. (The fact everything out there can literally be done regardless of whenether or not your character existed, as Personal Story tells us, being the prime example regardless of how much “We could have never picked those two bones from the floor without your help, commander/boss!” gets thrown around.)

TL:DR
Before this happens, they need to get the reins on their plot writting. They need to think less on the “what could be” and focus more in “what we can give the players and setting”, and translate that into their writting.

They won’t just yet, but I hope they will get down to it. Eventually.

Anmida.4058:

For there to be proper tragedy, there would need to be proper character development that makes one attached to characters. While the forums may be filled with “erhmagerd, this character!!!”, the average person doesn’t tend to pay much attention to the lackluster characters and the little development they get on screen anyways, both as of late and from the beginning of the game.
Simply put, Anet is very good at thinking many interesting character designs and personalities, but is extremely horrible at giving them any proper development in any way. The clutter themselves with too many things at the same time, then make a “Holding your hand forever” situation so that your character feels simply like a beholder, not a deciding factor. (The fact everything out there can literally be done regardless of whenether or not your character existed, as Personal Story tells us, being the prime example regardless of how much “We could have never picked those two bones from the floor without your help, commander/boss!” gets thrown around.)

TL:DR
Before this happens, they need to get the reins on their plot writting. They need to think less on the “what could be” and focus more in “what we can give the players and setting”, and translate that into their writting.

They won’t just yet, but I hope they will get down to it. Eventually.

This is exactly true, any character kill off in LS season 2 would be ineffective because said characters haven’t had enough time to develop. Ideally, end of LS season 3 would be the prime area to have a DE 2.0 kill off. It would give a whole season and a half to character development and would make for a great season finale. Anything earlier and it just wouldn’t work.

Becka Williams.4978:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Becka Williams.4978:

Belinda’s death didn’t do it for you?

Not really. Neither did Tybalt’s.

And what I want to see is tragedy more of a purest sort, not just killing off someone to reach through the screen and hit a player in the feels. No, I want it to be . . .

. . . I want Oedipus Rex and Antigone level tragedy.

So, essentially what you’re saying is that it doesn’t have your personally approved level of tragedy. Which is a different thread title, but I guess it’s too late for that.

I’m not the OP, but you need to read more carefully beyond just what was there.

If we’re going to go mining for tragedy in the storyline, it needs to have impact and it needs to have soul. Not “hey, here’s someone’s sister and oh no they’re dead”, or “here’s a lovable goof of a charr engineer and he’s going to teach you almost nothing and then die pointlessly”.

And if you want to understand tragedy? You have to go to the originators, not just what cheap player punch you can set up so anyone can see it coming from a mile away.

Warning: There may be a TVTropes Wiki link in there.

I will never understand why didn’t our mentor just… close the door and stayed behind it.
It took a giant tower laser of death to open that door again, you can’t exactly tell me those risen would have punched it open quickly enough that a single person keeping them busy was a deciding factor.

Tragedy depends largely on the individual viewer. I was moved by Belinda’s death (not so much for her, since I barely knew her, but for the effects it had on Marjory and Kasmeer), but I mostly rolled my eyes at the mentor’s deaths. Seriously, just shut the door and defend it from OUR side, then make a break for it at the last moment.

Likewise, if you killed off any of the Biconics, or DE, or the Tyrian leaders, you will have some players who are devastated by the revelation and others who go, “About time you got rid of that loser!”

Gorani.7205:

We know they considered killing Marjory at the end of season 1 and did not have the guts to do it.

Or rather because people spoiled said ending long before it was released?

ShinjoNaomi.1896:

To quote myself on a similar thread concerning the possibility of the Pale Tree getting killed…

ShinjoNaomi.1896:

By the Six, I hope not…
We have enough stupid, pointless deaths as it is, for no other reason then to just have people dying.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying characters should /never/ die… It’s war, after all. But Game of Thrones style character killing turned me off completely to those books and even more so to the show.

I’ve never seen that, but I’ve heard it mentioned like “Hey, this char survived the GoT test.” or something. My only guess is that every episode of GoT (or chapter in the books) has a named, built up character dying or something.

One thing with ‘tragedy’ is the death has to be tragic. I think killing off Kasmeer or Marjory would NOT have that effect. Many of the vocal people on forum just hate them and would cheer, and a good number of the rest of us would just sigh and go “Meh, saw that coming a mile away.” instead of truly being shocked. (I said that same thing would happen if they had tried to pull a “Marjory dies and Kasmeer makes an illusion of her in grief and all.”)

PS had death, and some was blah, some was fitting/nice. It’s war against a very deadly enemy after all.

But deaths have to make sense or not be forced, or perhaps expected. Killing Marjory or Kasmeer or even any of the biconics would basically IMO be forced, and everybody would just go “Blah. called it.” or cheer.

Another “we need death” thread.

Feel free to replay the Personal Story where nearly anyone with potential is killed off at least 3 missions later or simply forgotten afterwards…wait, can’t replay that. Brambles.

I agree; the LS need more tragedy!

But how to achieve this?? Not so easy in a game I would guess. Much of this thread is centred about killing characters as a tool of creating tragedy. Seeing loved ones sacrificed obviously belongs to the most shaking tragic moments but the overall story attempt shouldn´t fall short on that.
What´s really difficult in a game (in comparison to movies, series and especially books) is the lack of time we spent with the characters in non-violent situations. You need time and some buildup to create real drama, interactions on a very personal level (e.g. conflicts between family members, close friends, genders or lovers). But peoples´ “life”: (breathing, eating, speaking, doing their day-to-day business; all contributing to a well-written character and setting the stage for later drama) can be incorporated into a good novel without beeing boring, whereas ingame everyone starts shouting: “Why do i have to click through the 100th Taimi dialogue?” Off course we all want action and the artistic tools ingame are inferior to other media.
Still there are games with really refined characters (though I admit that most of them are single-players…). In my opinion GW1 was better in that respect, too.

Think this time (season 2) thy´re trying to go for the things mentioned above with the Eir-Braham mother-son story or Rox´ struggle for acceptance from Rytlock (or from Charr society as a whole). We´ll see. Really hope they keep inmproving!

Time to thank all the people in this thread for their interesting notes. Enjoy following it!

Kind regards to all players

Benjamin

ShadowStep.3640:

Ya, Taimi is safe because of the rating rules, but who is Raisin?

“Raisin” was the Asuran progeny that talked to a Charr near the bank in pre-destroyed LA

Asura child: “Your face is funny! It’s all mushed and weird…”
Charr soldier: “No, YOUR face is funny. It’s like a little raisin…”

It was something we heard pretty much every time we went to the bank. I went searching for that kid after the attack and I know many others did too – and that is some sort of emotional connection we did not have with e.g. Belinda.

Raisin Face is almost certainly dead, unfortunately.

Perhaps the issue is that it’s not personal enough. As in, it’s an interactive medium and yet you almost never have any influence on one dies and who doesn’t, who gets saved, that sort of thing.

If they really want to turn up the heat, they could give us a situation with two characters that we’re likely to care about and force us to make a choice on which one we’re going to save (both being in a dire situation).

Then the one that we thought we were going to save dies anyway and so does the other one. And we’re left standing on a hill, feeling helpless, as the world burns around us. So we have to go back to our roots, talking to people from our past and trying to remember how we got where we did.

And in our desperation, amidst hanging out with the youth of GW2 land, we learn that we can’t stop our friends from dying, but we can sure as kitten fight in honor of their memory. Not for some regional area of GW2 land, but for the sake of our friends. After all, “Some must fight, so that all may be free.”

Yeah, I somehow think going “Pick who you save!” and hen turning around and going “HAHAHA, Nope. Both die anyway!” isn’t going to do anything but enrage the playerbase.

closest example I’d have is ME3 ending, where basically no matter which path you took, The immediate end cutscene was basically exactly the same, with the color being different.

Frankly, if they went a “EVERYBODY DIES!” end scene for an episode, I’d be very unhappy. I HATE those types of endings, hence why I disliked most Call of Duty games I’ve played, because you reach the end, you defeat the bad guy, and everybody but you and maybe one or two others is dead. Way to make me feel like I won.

Kalavier.1097:

Yeah, I somehow think going “Pick who you save!” and hen turning around and going “HAHAHA, Nope. Both anyway!” isn’t going to do anything but enrage the playerbase.

closest example I’d have is ME3 ending, where basically no matter which path you took, The immediate end cutscene was basically exactly the same, with the color being different.

Oh, it probably would. But if people want real tragedy, it requires a slice of reality. The medium isn’t like a book or movie where you can just immerse the person readily into the intricacies of the story.

Games are all about choices. But what I’m talking about is not a story direction that involves a meaningless choice (meaningless choice is something I really dislike in games) – rather, a direction that makes the choice itself so interwoven with the story that your choice not mattering in this circumstance makes sense because it’s a part of your character development.

As opposed to many examples of choice not mattering, where it’s simply a weak attempting at trying to make you (the player) feel like you have some semblance of control. It’s just an example of the kind of direction they could play with, of course.

In short, the idea is to turn the “meaningless choice” element into an immersive, storytelling tool and yank at players’ heartstrings in the process. It would be a risky move, but praise isn’t won with safe choices.

Zaxares.5419:

Raisin Face is almost certainly dead, unfortunately.

Good. I loathed that brat. =P

Anmida.4058:

Simply put, Anet is very good at thinking many interesting character designs and personalities, but is extremely horrible at giving them any proper development in any way. The clutter themselves with too many things at the same time, then make a “Holding your hand forever” situation so that your character feels simply like a beholder, not a deciding factor. (The fact everything out there can literally be done regardless of whenether or not your character existed, as Personal Story tells us, being the prime example regardless of how much “We could have never picked those two bones from the floor without your help, commander/boss!” gets thrown around.)

TL:DR
Before this happens, they need to get the reins on their plot writting. They need to think less on the “what could be” and focus more in “what we can give the players and setting”, and translate that into their writting.

They won’t just yet, but I hope they will get down to it. Eventually.

I was thinking the exact same thing. The LS writers don’t have the interest in this game’s subject, and they don’t have the ability to write about political, social, and psychological situations. It shows in their writing. I can also tell that they’ve never written for a CRPG either. This game desperately needs a team of experienced CRPG writers. For example: an experienced CRPG writer makes sure most of the quests are part of the main storyline. That’s GM & Game Dev 101. I only know that because I like to spy on the game dev classes.

Kalavier.1097:

Frankly, if they went a “EVERYBODY DIES!” end scene for an episode, I’d be very unhappy. I HATE those types of endings, hence why I disliked most Call of Duty games I’ve played, because you reach the end, you defeat the bad guy, and everybody but you and maybe one or two others is dead. Way to make me feel like I won.

It’s a sign of the times. People like to watch characters die because of their exposure to the War on Terror. I don’t mind fiction that helps people process real-life events in a fantasy world like Hunger Games or Game of Thrones. The main difference: those stories carry a message while GW2 doesn’t really have one (unless you play a Sylvari).

GOT’s underlying theme is that power makes people crazy and the terrible consequences of searching for power over others. GRRM has a Christian background, so it’s not surprising to see him write an old fashioned Christian allegory. There are alot of Biblical references in them too. Hunger Games is a warning about what happens when a society doesn’t stand up for themselves. Suzanne Collins was inspired by various news reports to write this story. Yes there is death in them, but those deaths aren’t pointless.

IN GW2, the only storyline that has a good theme is the Sylvari storyline. The theme that is stressed is “unity”. It easy to see that in action in the Sylvari colony, in their interactions with each other, and in the Pale Tree’s summit that will take place soon.

Zaxares.5419:

Raisin Face is almost certainly dead, unfortunately.

Raisin is dead, it’s widely believed that he was the dead asuran child that was taken from his mother as soon as she arrived at the vigil keep.

We also know that the Charr Guard died over in the tent, during the escape he was talking about very bad symptoms and the doctor comes over, tells him “you’ll be fine” then mutters to someone else “he’s not going to make it through the night.” and at the start of the next step of the story he’s no longer there.

@OP I’d rather they not kill off one of our teammembers, mostly because it’d feel more forced than anything. However, if they make it fit story wise, i’d be ok with it. Just hope it’s not Rox or Taimi tbh….

However, i’d MUCH rather them kill Queen Jenna because of the disastrous consequences that’d come with her death. Aka huge power vacuum in the human kingdom when they need unity the most. And i know a lot of people are screaming for Pale Tree death, but in all honesty you can’t do that without completely and utterly destroying the Grove, which i don’t see happening anytime soon.

A lot of people seem to forget that The Grove IS the Pale Tree, the Avatar of the Pale Tree (aka the model we all see) is just how she communicates with people, it’s not her actual body.

The only deaths that have bothered me so far have been Tybalt and Forgel. I had a party when what’s her face died. She bugged me from the word go. She way way too happy. I would have split her skull my self if the game had let me.

Durzlla.6295:

Zaxares.5419:

Raisin Face is almost certainly dead, unfortunately.

However, i’d MUCH rather them kill Queen Jenna because of the disastrous consequences that’d come with her death. Aka huge power vacuum in the human kingdom when they need unity the most. And i know a lot of people are screaming for Pale Tree death, but in all honesty you can’t do that without completely and utterly destroying the Grove, which i don’t see happening anytime soon.

A lot of people seem to forget that The Grove IS the Pale Tree, the Avatar of the Pale Tree (aka the model we all see) is just how she communicates with people, it’s not her actual body.

Exactly! Jennah is story fodder. Kill her and you’ll get lots of drama and mayhem!

Unlike LA, the Grove won’t be rebuilt when the Pale Tree dies. I also want to find out her role in the Tyrian universe.

kta.6502:

GOT’s underlying theme is that power makes people crazy and the terrible consequences of searching for power over others. GRRM has a Christian background, so it’s not surprising to see him write an old fashioned Christian allegory.

Not to nitpick this point, but I seem to recall hearing the whole “War of the Five Kings” was more or less drawn out of rather real succession troubles in much older times. Also, the underlying theme isn’t about power making people crazy . . . it’s that every person has their flaws and are defined by how they behave with those flaws. And he has allowed mostly heroic characters to exist in Westeros – look up “The Hedge Knight” short story.

If anyone, it should be Phlunt, the jerk. Besides, he’s just one jerk on a council of jerks. He’d be easily replaced. By another jerk. Do the Asura know they’re being run by the Inquest? They should know that. They’re geniuses.

Jenna might be borderline incompetent, and lobs minis of herself at my on my birthday, but she’s not terrible. I wouldn’t even spite the Pale Tree, if she would grow outward a little bit and move some of those nuisance POI/vistas when she does. =P

Ooh, or Whitebear, the sniveling sod. He’s not even a strong figure of a Norn, and nowhere near a leader they deserve. Axe him and no one would notice.

kta.6502:

Durzlla.6295:

Zaxares.5419:

Raisin Face is almost certainly dead, unfortunately.

However, i’d MUCH rather them kill Queen Jenna because of the disastrous consequences that’d come with her death. Aka huge power vacuum in the human kingdom when they need unity the most. And i know a lot of people are screaming for Pale Tree death, but in all honesty you can’t do that without completely and utterly destroying the Grove, which i don’t see happening anytime soon.

A lot of people seem to forget that The Grove IS the Pale Tree, the Avatar of the Pale Tree (aka the model we all see) is just how she communicates with people, it’s not her actual body.

Exactly! Jennah is story fodder. Kill her and you’ll get lots of drama and mayhem!

Unlike LA, the Grove won’t be rebuilt when the Pale Tree dies. I also want to find out her role in the Tyrian universe.

I feel like if the Pale Tree died it’d have one of the largest impacts on Tyria, however I feel like out of all the leaders she’d be the most difficult to kill since it’d literally require to destruction of the Grove, and the pale tree is far from defenseless, seeing as how Salad Bowl (Trahernes sword) is just one of her thorns…. yeah, pretty sure she can kitten kitten up if she needs to.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Becka Williams.4978:

Belinda’s death didn’t do it for you?

That was only tragedy for the weak minded who didn’t instantly realize upon her introduction that her purpose was to die “tragically.”

You’re suggesting that when you saw her in the bar, your immediate thought was “Yep, she’s dead”?

Filaha.1678:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Becka Williams.4978:

Belinda’s death didn’t do it for you?

That was only tragedy for the weak minded who didn’t instantly realize upon her introduction that her purpose was to die “tragically.”

You’re suggesting that when you saw her in the bar, your immediate thought was “Yep, she’s dead”?

Me and the friends I was doing the cutscene with actually agreed upon that on spot as her dialogue ended. The biggest reason if anything is that she didn’t have a special model at all, not even her face or hairstyle had any effort put into them.
Coupled with the fact she was a key character to Marjory yet she was automatically dismissed to the Wildlands after a few words of no particular weight, it really made it look like they didn’t want to put effort into her just because they were already aware she’d get killed soon anyways.

SPOILERS FROM PERSONAL STORY AND GW1!

There was a lot of tragedy moments in LS2.
Still, they weren’t too good.

Episode with Sieran was heartbreaking because she was so young, she had spark in her eyes and she wanted to explore the world. I thought she is another stupid Sylvari. Her last dialogue was so realistic; “Gixx always said I was a troublemaker” and Gixx dialogue was like “I’ve never told her how much I liked her” and it looks like she died thinking she was troublemaker. It was really sad because it was so realistic. Sometimes we don’t have a chance to say “sorry” for our words.

Rurik in GW1.
He was a honorable prince. We had some quests and missions with him. He wanted to marry with Lady Althea (our mesmer class mentor) but she died after Charr’s invasion.
Rurik wanted the best for his people so he took them with his journey to the Kryta. Because of that he was disowned and exiled from the Ascalon by his father. A lot of his people died during the journey. At the end of the journey he died too thinking his father didn’t loved him and thinking he failed.

Tragedy of LA was great because everyone was here, speaked with quaggans, skritt, “your face is squishy” – girl. After destruction of LA there was a lot of topics (and posts in reddit) with questions about who died and who survived.
It was “fun” and it was sad when you couldn’t find “sewer-skritt and his girl” (did they survive? I still can’t find them).

When I read that Belinda has to go and Jory said “we’ll meet later” I was like “I Love Game of Thrones and that’s why you should die, Belinda” and she died. Still it wasn’t hearthbreaking. Belina left us too fast and I didn’t know anything about her. All dialogues was like: “Hey! Who’re you? Ok, I have to go. Bye!”

People love realistic story because we love to connect everything from books, television and video games to our world in 1:1 scale. With realistic and don’t rushed story we have connection and with connection we have feelings.

Belina episode was too short and because of that we had no chance to connect with her.

We need better narration and more time with new characters.

SPOILERS FROM PERSONAL STORY AND GW1!

Filaha.1678:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Becka Williams.4978:

Belinda’s death didn’t do it for you?

That was only tragedy for the weak minded who didn’t instantly realize upon her introduction that her purpose was to die “tragically.”

You’re suggesting that when you saw her in the bar, your immediate thought was “Yep, she’s dead”?

For a lot of people it was when Belinda said she was going to Brisban. You can look it up in the threads from back when she was introduced, it was pretty firmly believed that Belinda was going to die soon.

Shiren.9532:

Filaha.1678:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Becka Williams.4978:

Belinda’s death didn’t do it for you?

That was only tragedy for the weak minded who didn’t instantly realize upon her introduction that her purpose was to die “tragically.”

You’re suggesting that when you saw her in the bar, your immediate thought was “Yep, she’s dead”?

For a lot of people it was when Belinda said she was going to Brisban. You can look it up in the threads from back when she was introduced, it was pretty firmly believed that Belinda was going to die soon.

I pegged it, personally, at “this is my sister, Belinda Belacqua”. I was like ‘well she’s dead’.

This game needs more than just tragedy, it also needs excitement, intrigue, mystery, adventure, shock and awe, and perhaps even romance (just not more of this Marjory/Kasmeer cringy stuff.)

It’s basically a weak story written and delivered at a coma inducing pace. And I’m not talking about the frequency of the LS releases here. I don’t even find myself waiting intently for the next release. I should be excited to find out what unfolds next, or what is the outcome of the last installments cliffhanger ending.

I just don’t think Anet is really too concerned with the quality of the story, the characters or your role in it. I still believe GW2 is the best MMO out there at the moment, its just the lame story that really lets it down for me.

Look…. while I’m not specifically opposed to the idea, I think we need to be sure it’s warranted.

“This game needs some gut-wrenching tragedy!”
“Why?”
“Because it doesn’t have some gut-wrenching tragedy!”

There are many things this game “doesn’t have”, from story elements (this game doesn’t have enough tragedy) to tangible additions (this game doesn’t have any giant mech-scale golems) to just about anything else (this game doesn’t have its own in-game rock band).

Just because it doesn’t have something, doesn’t mean it NEEDS that thing.

If you put a huge tragic scene in this game for no other reason than to satisfy people who want such a scene, it will feel forced and gratuitous. It will have no point in context, it’s just being randomly inserted because it can be.

So. I am not opposed to the idea of notching up the drama levels, either in tragic or other fashions, but it has to be done plausibly. It has to fit, it has to feel natural…. or else it’s not worth it, and will only hurt the story.

The living story IS a tragedy. It’s full of PC garbage, horrible writing, and wasted potential. In addition to being a tragedy, it’s also a travesty…perpetrated against everyone that loved the first GW game, and the lore and wonder it contained.

Well, killing a character off in story like this might be much easier said than done.

Let’s say that you picked Kasmeer, and left Marjory to die. And your friend picked Marjory over Kasmeer. In the next patch, you’ll have two different stories, with two different possibilities, moving on.

Sure, they can just have different dialogue, but something as big as a character death, especially one you’re so involved in, would have to be approached differently.

I say, if they’re going to kill a character, the character they kill off has to be universal for everyone.

I do think the Pale Tree being damaged is a decent amount of tragedy for this story. While not everyone will necessarily feel sadness at it, it is the sole way for new sylvari to be born. What I think would be interesting would be for no new sylvari to be born while the Pale Tree is injured. Now, as appropriate as it might be, they aren’t about to shut down new sylvari character creation, as every new player who’d want to create a sylvari would go, “Huh? Why can’t I create one of these…” But it could still done plot-wise, perhaps a casual discussion in the next batch of personal story. Again, not everyone will be moved by it, but if an entire race is suddenly endangered like this, it is a pretty big tragedy for the world.

Now, there are other ways to introduce tragedy. I think injury is one of the ways to do so, and more than just Braham’s busted leg. Braham will heal, but if someone couldn’t walk any more, or lost the use of an arm, that is one big way to make things emotional without needing to kill someone, and surviving with severe injury is sometimes more tragic than dying.

Rytlock is missing. For me Anet has overtragedyzed this game.

Anet, bring back our Rytlock!

ShadowStep.3640:

Yep that’s right, tragedy. Every truly great story has some sort of tragedy that allowed it to relate to the audience.

Technically it’s conflict, every story has some sort of central conflict which motivates character action and the resolution of which forms the climax of the story. This conflict can be initiated by a tragedy or result in a tragedy but a tragedy isn’t inherently required. This conflict could be something as simple as SPOILERS in Avengers attempting to stop Loki (the climax being the battle in LA), Gravity attempting to not dying in space, Terminator protecting Sarah Conner from the titular killing machine etc.

Tragedy is actually a risky move to use, since it either comes off as deeply emotional (Tybalt!) or can actually come off as being slightly manipulative and generally cheap. In fact the value of a tragedy does not lie in the tragedy itself but in our investment in the character and their reaction or feelings regarding the tragedy (Why Tybalt why’d you have to sacrafice yourself? Especially since there was a army of nameless NPCs standing around who could easily have taken your place!). So in order for a tragedy to work you need to have already relate-able character, so a tragedy isn’t actually a means of making characters relate-able.

ShadowStep.3640:

I think the best thing to do during the next season of LS, is to truly build up the characters of Marjory, Kasmeer, Braham, Taimi, and Rox. Then at the end of the season, take two compatible characters that are closer than the others……then kill one off.

Ok so you’re advocating the Naruto approach. Mmm why are we suddenly getting more back-story for this character who up until now has barely been involved in the plot… surely it’s not because… Jip he’s dead. I’d prefer the Game of Throne approach where everyone get’s a decent amount of characterization so that in effect they all have targets painted in their backs (however this is not viable in a video game).

lordkrall.7241:

I suppose killing thousands of people and destroying one of the most important city on the continent was not tragic enough?

It’s not tragic unless you see the people crawling on the ground and bleeding out it seems, while holding the dead bodies of their children. It seems we’re aiming for the Modern Warfare tragedy model.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Becka Williams.4978:

Belinda’s death didn’t do it for you?

Not really. Neither did Tybalt’s.

And what I want to see is tragedy more of a purest sort, not just killing off someone to reach through the screen and hit a player in the feels. No, I want it to be . . .

. . . I want Oedipus Rex and Antigone level tragedy.

So you want incest and patricide? Just joking :P

Gorani.7205:

Taimi is safe (at least on screen death), because they can’t kill kids because of the game’s rating (I still don’t know about “Raisin” from LA).

Poor raisin-face I miss her verbal jousting.

Labjax.2465:

Perhaps the issue is that it’s not personal enough. As in, it’s an interactive medium and yet you almost never have any influence on one dies and who doesn’t, who gets saved, that sort of thing.

Given the choice of who lives and who dies doesn’t inherently lead to investment. In RPGs where I’m given this option it’s usually very obvious that it’s going to happen and usually is a choice either between two characters I don’t care about (usually since there is a large cast of secondary characters) or between a character I sort of care about and one I don’t. Being given a choice would only matter if we already care about the characters. So again we see more emphasis not on the tragedy but on the character development and player investment.

Labjax.2465:

If they really want to turn up the heat, they could give us a situation with two characters that we’re likely to care about and force us to make a choice on which one we’re going to save (both being in a dire situation).

Then the one that we thought we were going to save dies anyway and so does the other one. And we’re left standing on a hill, feeling helpless, as the world burns around us. So we have to go back to our roots, talking to people from our past and trying to remember how we got where we did.

Without character development that would just be cheap manipulation.

kta.6502:

It’s a sign of the times. People like to watch characters die because of their exposure to the War on Terror.

That probably explains my general apathy toward the subject, being South African I’ve never been touched by this whole boring War on Terror business the rest of the world is going on about. Also I tend to be rather cynical about these sorts of things.