Living Story is Killing the rest of the game
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I agree….new content every 2 weeks is really impacting progress in the normal parts of the game. I could easily live with once a month updates rather than every 2 weeks. It’s getting to the point where I cringe when i hear of new content.
A one week of vanilla game between the releases is all I ask. More time for polishing and testing (kitten , that one is necessary), more people in the actual, original, beautiful world.
Language is a virus from outer space.
William S. Burroughs
William S. Burroughs
There’s more to this game, well I never……………
Seriously, yes the rest of the game is dead as a dodo.
Jumping puzzles, love them or hate them, I hate them. Thread killer.
The living story “fluff”, it is not content, it is joke so I call it “fluff”, is just so they have an excuse every few weeks to dump more gambling and items in the gem store. Also to keep gem prices high so players think it is worth buying gems with real life cash to sell for gold and then buy anything they like off the TP, instead of ya know actually playing the game.
This whole game is focused around pushing players towards the gem store and that is pretty much the past 12 months of GW2.
It’s not the same Anet anymore that people remember from GW1 and it never will be, we got tricked by clever PR and Marketing.
Now go make anet some more money and gamble your money away on the gem store and then still not get what your after because it’s double and trippled layered with more RNG gambling in the mystic toilet.
(edited by TRON.1085)
November last year.
Orb’s were removed from WvW.. with a promised fix.
almost one year later now..
Still waiting..
54 infractions and counting because a moderator doesn’t understand a joke when he/she sees it.
E.A.D.
E.A.D.
It’s certainly killing it for me. Everything they’re cranking out with the Living Story is unpolished filler…a reason to keep players logging in in the hopes that they’ll drop some cash in the Gem Shop. The reasons I signed up for this game in the first place are being eroded away and replaced with this Zynga-esque Living Story system.
The problem is, if you don’t farm the living story you get left behind while everything escalates in price, and whoever played the other content they did because they enjoyed it is now unable to buy much of anything.
It’s tragic really.
Sanctum of Rall (NA) – [LOD] – PvE/Dungeon Phantasm Mesmer build
Morrï (Mesmer) | Serah Mahariel (Guardian) | Morrï Mahariel (Warrior)
“colesy’s on rampage today. Slaying casuals left, right and centre” – spoj
Morrï (Mesmer) | Serah Mahariel (Guardian) | Morrï Mahariel (Warrior)
“colesy’s on rampage today. Slaying casuals left, right and centre” – spoj
I can see why Jeff Strain and Patrick Wyatt along with a lot of great developers left probably due to the fact that the newer guys were screwing up the game and didn’t want to be apart of it. Could is the key word here if it were listed.
Guild Wars 2 is not a sequel to the original Guild Wars but merely an alternative story setting.
Two of the original GW founders left? Great, I already put hundreds of dollars into the game and now I learn that the company may turn it into yet another interwebz grindfest?
Language is a virus from outer space.
William S. Burroughs
William S. Burroughs
Was going to buy more gems tomorrow, on hold until I see the new LS… :/
Language is a virus from outer space.
William S. Burroughs
William S. Burroughs
Two of the original GW founders left? Great, I already put hundreds of dollars into the game and now I learn that the company may turn it into yet another interwebz grindfest?
Guild Wars 2 is not a sequel to the original Guild Wars but merely an alternative story setting.
I too would like a 1 week minimum break between temporary content. Two weeks would be even better. 2 weeks on, two weeks off, repeat.
It’s a kitten conspiracy. Kittens gonna be kittens. All is vain!
Im just glad I got my 4 extra character slots when I did. I remember thinking paying 2-3 gold for 100 gems was outragous.
Funny thing about invasions, the land being invaded gets messed up real bad. Things that need doing, just don’t get done because everyone is off fighting the invaders. For myself, I happen to like what’s happened. Once the invaders go away, things will get back to normal. That’s why it’s called a living world.
Only that they won’t go away completely, it’s permanent content, they will still happen from time to time, randomly sucking the population from the rest of the world.
Language is a virus from outer space.
William S. Burroughs
William S. Burroughs
GW2lfg.com is still vibrant with groups for all kinds of content. Don’t know what the fuzz is about.
If I can’t play Guild Wars 2 at work, I won’t work in Guild Wars 2 either.
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto
Only that they won’t go away completely, it’s permanent content, they will still happen from time to time, randomly sucking the population from the rest of the world.
Only, you have no idea what the frequency or intensity of the continued events will be. SO why do you insist on continuing the doom and gloom attitude. It’s like you want to be upset about the invasions.
Funny thing about invasions, the land being invaded gets messed up real bad. Things that need doing, just don’t get done because everyone is off fighting the invaders. For myself, I happen to like what’s happened. Once the invaders go away, things will get back to normal. That’s why it’s called a living world.
Say what? Nothing changes at all in the lands being invaded. Nothing changes if you lose to the invading force, and nothing changes if you win. I’d hardly call that living.
Funny thing about invasions, the land being invaded gets messed up real bad. Things that need doing, just don’t get done because everyone is off fighting the invaders. For myself, I happen to like what’s happened. Once the invaders go away, things will get back to normal. That’s why it’s called a living world.
Say what? Nothing changes at all in the lands being invaded. Nothing changes if you lose to the invading force, and nothing changes if you win. I’d hardly call that living.
When you say nothing changes, you’re wrong. A lot changes. The most obvious is inflation, have you seen the cost of gems lately? Have you been to any of the temples in Orr lately? You haven’t have you, neither has anyone else. They’ve been pretty much closed the last couple of weeks. If you’re looking for temple armor it isn’t happening.
If you say nothing has changed lately, then you have to be intentionally blind.
Only that they won’t go away completely, it’s permanent content, they will still happen from time to time, randomly sucking the population from the rest of the world.
It upsets the map events. Which I think is a good thing. Events that never failed now fail because the players are doing another (bigger) event. Which means you have to “clean up” after an invasion.
I am looking forward to the random invasions. I just hope they’re really random and not “on monday at 19:30 Gendarran Fields will be invaded” and “on tuesday at 14:00 Frostgorge Sound will be invaded”…
I am looking forward to the random invasions. I just hope they’re really random and not “on monday at 19:30 Gendarran Fields will be invaded” and “on tuesday at 14:00 Frostgorge Sound will be invaded”…
thats exactly how it is now….
GW2lfg.com is still vibrant with groups for all kinds of content. Don’t know what the fuzz is about.
regardless! i shouldn’t, WE shouldn’t, have to use 3rd party functions for things we should be able to do with our guild mates/friends and server populations.
I can’t help but look back at Guild Wars Beyond.
It was all new content, really bing, really long, lots of fun, and you could do it whenever you wanted.
If it got released during your exams, or while you get your vacation days, or when you got into a car accident that put you in a coma for 5 years, you could still do it once you are able to log in again.
Not everyone has the same schedules, and so things like once-a-year festivals should last a month to give people a chance to at least get a couple of days in a weekend, and other extra content should be added permanently. If they want to make living stuff, then at least turn them into instances once they are no longer ‘living’ so people can at least replay the content to see the story and hear the dialogs, even without as many rewards or any rewards at all.
Just think of all those expensive voice lines that will be there only for a few days.
Why spending time and resources on things that will be gone and will never come back?
It’s like paying freaking Damien Hirst to make you a sandcastle, and quickly step on it before people has time to even take out their cameras.
It doesn’t help wiki editors either. All those “This content was only temporarily available during…” tags are nothing but disgusting to me. And editors must hurry and record as much as possible before it’s gone forever. Which leads to several incomplete pages, even when they give a few editors a headstart to create the pages before the content starts, there’s just no time for everything.
The kind of time pressure that makes players feel “now or never” is never good for a game, as it takes away the option to have fun at your own pace in your own time.
If something is to be temporary, it should be cyclical, eventually coming back.
It’s great to have new things to do all the time.
It’s not great to feel forced to stick to the new stuff until it’s done before going on with anything else you may want to do.
GW2lfg.com is still vibrant with groups for all kinds of content. Don’t know what the fuzz is about.
regardless! i shouldn’t, WE shouldn’t, have to use 3rd party functions for things we should be able to do with our guild mates/friends and server populations.
It’s not the games fault if your guild members don’t want to hang with you.
Two of the original GW founders left? Great, I already put hundreds of dollars into the game and now I learn that the company may turn it into yet another interwebz grindfest?
So people are complaining that LW is driving ANet developers away who left the company long before GW2 was created…hmmm…yeah that makes sense.
- Jeff Strain left ANet in 2008 for NCSoft West and then left NCSoft in 2009.
- Patrick Wyatt left ANet in 2008 for NCSoft West and then left NCSoft and is currently part of En Masse Entertainment.
- GW2 was announced in 2007, shown off to the public in 2009, and released in 2012. Those guys were long gone before much of GW2 was even developed let alone the LW.
While I agree that the LW stuff may come a tad too fast…personally I’d like to see every 3-4 weeks instead of the current schedule, but people cannot claim that game developers are leaving because of the current LW plan.
(edited by MokahTGS.7850)
Two of the original GW founders left? Great, I already put hundreds of dollars into the game and now I learn that the company may turn it into yet another interwebz grindfest?
So people are complaining that LW is driving ANet developers away who left the company long before GW2 was created…hmmm…yeah that makes sense.
- Jeff Strain left ANet in 2008 for NCSoft West and then left NCSoft in 2009.
- Patrick Wyatt left ANet in 2008 for NCSoft West and then left NCSoft and is currently part of En Masse Entertainment.
- GW2 was announced in 2007, shown off to the public in 2009, and released in 2012. Those guys were long gone before much of GW2 was even developed let alone the LW.
While I agree that the LW stuff may come a tad too fast…personally I’d like to see every 3-4 weeks instead of the current schedule, but people cannot claim that game developers are leaving because of the current LW plan.
this is just pure speculation on my part, but if Living story/world concept was in gw2 at inception and, if by chance, all those devs were so opposed to the living story/world concept that they jumped ship before real development began, then HYPOTHETICALLY, you could assume that Living story/World content did in fact drive away some of ANet’s Top developers.
Funny thing about invasions, the land being invaded gets messed up real bad. Things that need doing, just don’t get done because everyone is off fighting the invaders. For myself, I happen to like what’s happened. Once the invaders go away, things will get back to normal. That’s why it’s called a living world.
Say what? Nothing changes at all in the lands being invaded. Nothing changes if you lose to the invading force, and nothing changes if you win. I’d hardly call that living.
When you say nothing changes, you’re wrong. A lot changes. The most obvious is inflation, have you seen the cost of gems lately? Have you been to any of the temples in Orr lately? You haven’t have you, neither has anyone else. They’ve been pretty much closed the last couple of weeks. If you’re looking for temple armor it isn’t happening.
If you say nothing has changed lately, then you have to be intentionally blind.
What? What you just said has absolutely no connection to your original statement. “Land being invaded gets messed up real bad” — not at all.
If there is something to do when people log on then the living story is working. If there is too much to do then players have to pick and choose the bits they enjoy most. It is much better than there being nothing to do (other than the same old stuff) which is the endgame state of most MMOs.
For me living story is over done. Once in awhile would be ok but that’s all they are giving us. Starting not to care about it anymore. I want new land area’s with new mobs to fight. Not stuff that goes away after awhile.
I hope we dont get endless raids ever again in a living story. It has awesome rewards that drains players from every other game mode, and it happens ALL THE TIME.
There is no point in doing anything that takes more than 15 minutes, because you will miss the next invasion windows which gives you much better rewards than anything else you could be doing…
I disagree with the OP.LS is not killing at all the rest of the game
TxS – Tequatl Slayer Alliance (EU)
I too would like a 1 week minimum break between temporary content. Two weeks would be even better. 2 weeks on, two weeks off, repeat.
+1 Atleast something mildly constructive in this thread of complaining.
I agree. Some new content is fun. But, It’s killing the rest of the game.
My 17 year old son, who played GW1 for years, and waited years for this game to come out, absolutely won’t play it anymore. 1. Because the original story is dead, and they threw the book out the window, (ie. there are 4 dragons that have never been hunted). 2. He thinks that disappearing content designed to make you stick with the game every day, which has nothing to do with Guild Wars, and has everything to do with marketing trinkets, is just not Guild Wars anymore. 3. The announcement of no expansion packs, and implementation of disappearing content, and complete wasted effort. He says he’ll be back in 2015 IF they offer an expansion pack.
My friends who left, won’t come back because of disappearing content. Hey guys, come back, it’s really awesome, you should see what they did… oh wait, you missed it, it’s gone, nevermind.
Here’s how it looks from my generation, (you know, the generation that invented video games). In the 70’s you had to be available to watch a TV show, if you missed it, too bad. And that sucked. In the 80’s people had a chance to record a show, but, it cost a lot, and it failed a lot, but, it proved what everyone wanted. We wanted to watch shows on our schedule, not theirs. Nowadays, we record everything on DVR, and always watch it “when we want to”.
Now, GW2 has a brilliant “Back to the 70’s” idea. Play it now, or miss it forever. …Bad idea.
I would love to play new content. But, it has to be on my time. And, I myself, am losing interest, due to all the missed content that I can never play now.
Instead of wasting time and energy on “Super Adventure Box” garbage, which has nothing to do with GW2, they should be adding permanent new GW2 content. Content that follows the real Guild Wars story. And content that is available “FOREVER”.
This is a DVR society, not a “schedule my life around a limited time offer game” society. People want to play it, when they have time to play it.
Anyone buying the game now, is completely lost on story line, (which is way out in left field anyway). Oh, sorry, you missed everything. …Who would ever want to start watching a TV series, if they could never see all the episodes they missed? Nobody. Who want’s to buy GW2 now, if they’ve missed half the content?
History, and marketing lesson. Q: Why did vinyl recordings survive, when radio broadcasts were always free? Because, people could play what they wanted, when they wanted to.
Some of the new content is really good. But, those entire areas are gone. The content is just gone. And what’s left when it’s gone, is the same old re-runs.
Add the content with a Living Story, so be it. But, you need to keep the content, forever. So everyone can play it, …forever. Expanding the game is awesome. But taking the brilliant new content away every 2 weeks is, …epic long term fail.
I agree. Some new content is fun. But, It’s killing the rest of the game…
Sir, your entire post was beautifully and eloquently written. And I agree wholeheartedly.
Also, +1 to the original poster.
Agreed. It just takes up too much time and it’s rarely fun to do (the Funhouse was fun, but mostly due to the Hobo-tron and not because of the dungeon itself).
If you can read this then it is proof that ArenaNet’s moderators just, kind and fair.
I agree with the OP, the Living World stuff, especially the last couple of updates feel like they’re creating the very problem that GW1 suffered from, that is the whole empty world issue.
By the time they released Nightfall they realized the game world had become too large to support their playerbase. Players were too spread out to make grouping with other people in the majority of content feasable. Heroes, and later the Zaishen dailies helped alleviate this since it would help congregate players.
With the current Living World state of things it feels almost as though they’ve introduced the Zaishen daily missions when there was only the Prophecies Campaign available. The world isn’t too big yet but they insist on herding all the players into one area, and it’s artificially creating the empty world syndrome that GW1 has.
Yeah I have been waiting for LS content to stop, at least slow the kitten down. You can have too much new content, updates and zerg fests. Most of my guildies and friends are either too busy with LS like OP suggested or burned out and not logging in, and I’m just sitting here doing WvW by myself because they haven’t figured out how to insert LS into WvW yet. I miss running dungeons/fractals, I see things that are broken and need to be fixed or polished up.
Nope gotta put out that new content every two weeks before gamers get bored and start to complain about not having anything to do because NC Soft needs more money.
I want quality in my game, I’ve had enough quantity. What exactly am I talking about? Pretty much every LS that was added between SAB 1 and SAB 2 was a grind fest in one form or another, my inventory got loaded down with boxes full of garbage there was supposed to be tickets in there but eh I made more money selling them.
There were a few exceptions, the account wallet we needed that good job definitely quality there, the Queens Gauntlet good stuff something different made you think, SS Survival/Aspect Arena fun also Sanctum Sprint , needs to be expanded and lastly no confirmation when I want to salvage green items this needed to happen.
Notice how two of the things I mentioned were interface improvements? More like this please Anet that’s a quality of game update.
The rest were playable content yes but it was PVE boss combat that required you to think a little while challenging you as a player and the other was pvp arena style combat. Also seeing something similar to Candidate Trials where you don’t have to exclusively kill goofy looking steam punk pirates would be a nice way to test your party out in a dynamic and endurance style combat.
There were a couple of dungeons that had potential but that last one, the fun house that was NOT a dungeon that was a closed instance of PVE mistakenly labeled as a dungeon.
The rest of it has been mindlessly following zergs and attacking the big thing, killing those goofy looking steam punk pirates repeatedly, finding things to stand next to and press the F key, and opening boxes full of crap.
I would really appreciate it if after SAB 2 there would be no LS updates and then we can have our Holiday Events as usual. But if LS events have to happen how about lowering the frequency to say once a month?
(edited by MastaNeenja.1537)
I agree.
My 5 main characters hit level 80 months ago (probably in March?). My original intention was that once I hit level 80, I’d start doing dungeons. I wanted to hold off on that point so that I’d at least have my character built up so that while I’d be going in “blind” I’d at least have the stats and such.
To this day I haven’t set foot in a single (non-LS) dungeon. Not one. I just don’t have the time. Living Story takes up so much of it that there’s little time left, certainly not for dungeons which require a chunk of time set aside for them.
Not only that, but half my characters are still only a fraction of the way done with their Personal Stories (only 2 of them are almost to the end), I still have a Necro that’s only level 27, I’ve never been to the final Orr zone on any character… there’s plenty of the main game I haven’t experienced yet.
Even the stuff I’ve already done I wouldn’t mind doing again. I enjoy open-world exploration and doing heart quests, and the original intent was to go to each zone a couple of times with different characters. No time for that though, I either go to open world zones strictly for LS content or occasionally for a boss or two.
Now I know that I could say “Forget Living Story, I’m going to do X instead”. But when presented with the choice between doing the Living Story content which I have 2 weeks or a month to complete or its gone forever and I’ll never be able to do it, vs content which will be around forever, I have to err with the temp content. The other stuff will be there for me to complete any time.
It just seems with the endless cascade of Living World content, “any time” is never going to come.
ANet is buffing rewards piecemeal. If they were to restructure loot globally, it’s more likely the playerbase would spread out more — or at least more than they are now.
I too would like a 1 week minimum break between temporary content. Two weeks would be even better. 2 weeks on, two weeks off, repeat.
I made a thread about this a few months ago: ( link) It seemed like a fair compromise that most people could live with. Unfortunately it hasn’t happened yet…
For me it doesnt feel like livingworld,for me a living world in gw2 looks more like this for example,
A dragon hit the sea creating a massive tsunami,submerging an existing map by half with water or a vulcano that starts erupting somewhere in tyria for example,also it should stay that way permanent.now after 2 weeks its gone.
What i mean is,It should be nice if they could redisign existing map’s into lw permanent,Now its like a small extra map with lw content after 2 weeks gone because of server limmitations probably.
Imagin in your rl living world they build a new school in your town,then you take a visit, gone lol, it was only for two weeks.
GW2lfg.com is still vibrant with groups for all kinds of content. Don’t know what the fuzz is about.
regardless! i shouldn’t, WE shouldn’t, have to use 3rd party functions for things we should be able to do with our guild mates/friends and server populations.
07/17/2013 patch. Watch for it. LFG incoming.
November last year.
Orb’s were removed from WvW.. with a promised fix.
almost one year later now..
Still waiting..
The wait is almost over 07/17/2013 patch incoming.
I do not think the living story is killing the game. It is temporary achievement hunting that is causing the symptoms you described. Living story is as a matter of fact it is keeping it alive. Most players finish the living story content the first week then play the game the second week. Some players take breaks. There are a lot of players not playing SAB this patch and instead running around getting their ascended gear. There is also a massive amount of players in WvW and only WvW.
That said invasion events were a exception to the rule. Players finally got the rewards they wanted for the first time so they all went there. Sacrificing other things like scheduled Guild Missions(My guild does them regularly the first week we skipped it) Now players have close to how much they need for their needs and tend to use them to generate large amounts of income or mats.
In Game: Storm Bluff Isle — Anzz, Anzenketh Kyoto
I agree. Some new content is fun. But, It’s killing the rest of the game…
Sir, your entire post was beautifully and eloquently written. And I agree wholeheartedly.
Also, +1 to the original poster.
+1!!!!!
i haven’t logged in for almost a month now, because of the LS pacing. 2 weeks isn’t enough time for me to sit and enjoy it. it’s a constant flow of new content and achievements, but there isn’t anything also that interests me, or get me to come back to the game.
i guess the ascended stuff’s being rolled out, but it hasn’t enticed me to log back in, yet. i guess its atm too expensive, and with all the new time-gating materials that are needed. stuff can only be crafted once per day, per account? that’s stupid. things now will just be more expensive, and not as fun (for me)
i’d like to see more core game related lore, and less emphasis on short content that heavily promotes the gem store.
So people are complaining that LW is driving ANet developers away who left the company long before GW2 was created…hmmm…yeah that makes sense.
- Jeff Strain left ANet in 2008 for NCSoft West and then left NCSoft in 2009.
- Patrick Wyatt left ANet in 2008 for NCSoft West and then left NCSoft and is currently part of En Masse Entertainment.
- GW2 was announced in 2007, shown off to the public in 2009, and released in 2012. Those guys were long gone before much of GW2 was even developed let alone the LW.
While I agree that the LW stuff may come a tad too fast…personally I’d like to see every 3-4 weeks instead of the current schedule, but people cannot claim that game developers are leaving because of the current LW plan.
According to Colin at the PAX panel, ArenaNet had plans of the “Living World” during Guild Wars 2’s actual development (which, knowing this, I believe they were doomed to fail from the very beginning even more so than I would have said before). Furthermore, even Guild Wars 2 vanilla itself has problems with a lot of fields, the lore the least of them.
Take note that other prominent members left during the development of Guild Wars 2 as well – two of them being Kekai Kotaki and John Hargrove.
I agree. Some new content is fun. But, It’s killing the rest of the game.
-snip rest-
I fullheartedly agree with this post. A shame for your son, since at the current rate, in 2015 we’ll just have what we have, but one month’s content available temporarily.
Well, you may have a few pointless new instances or structural changes in the open world that add nothing to the long-term plot, though.
Anet needs to take a step back, seriously look at things, and create retroactive changes. Allow all of the living story (The Lost Shores, Flame and Frost, Secret of Southsun/Last Stand at Southsun, etc.) to be available in some form after release. Issue comes in with Dragonbash’s story… sigh
I think I may end up joining your son in leaving GW2 until 2015.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
What is this topic? A joke?
Living story is the thing keeping me and many people play this game. I don’t want Anet to make less living story or lengthen the gap between the events.
I even want more living story. xD
Two of the original GW founders left? Great, I already put hundreds of dollars into the game and now I learn that the company may turn it into yet another interwebz grindfest?
So people are complaining that LW is driving ANet developers away who left the company long before GW2 was created…hmmm…yeah that makes sense.
- Jeff Strain left ANet in 2008 for NCSoft West and then left NCSoft in 2009.
- Patrick Wyatt left ANet in 2008 for NCSoft West and then left NCSoft and is currently part of En Masse Entertainment.
- GW2 was announced in 2007, shown off to the public in 2009, and released in 2012. Those guys were long gone before much of GW2 was even developed let alone the LW.
While I agree that the LW stuff may come a tad too fast…personally I’d like to see every 3-4 weeks instead of the current schedule, but people cannot claim that game developers are leaving because of the current LW plan.
this is just pure speculation on my part, but if Living story/world concept was in gw2 at inception and, if by chance, all those devs were so opposed to the living story/world concept that they jumped ship before real development began, then HYPOTHETICALLY, you could assume that Living story/World content did in fact drive away some of ANet’s Top developers.
Of course, these could just be normal career changes. Really, does there have to be nefarious reasons behind everything?
(edited by DarcShriek.5829)
What is this topic? A joke?
Living story is the thing keeping me and many people play this game. I don’t want Anet to make less living story or lengthen the gap between the events.
I even want more living story. xD
Is the Living Story keeping you playing the game? Or is the constant addition of loot and achievement point rewards keeping you playing the game? It might not seem like it, but there’s a difference.
I agree….new content every 2 weeks is really impacting progress in the normal parts of the game. I could easily live with once a month updates rather than every 2 weeks. It’s getting to the point where I cringe when i hear of new content.
That really true. I cant even progress with maps or personal story for last 3 months. It’s all cause – Living story got so time consuming.
They should really make it a monthly release as it was inteded on the start but stic to how much content we get now.
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