Guild Wars 2

LS2 has been lot better then the first disjointed ls1, the new living story and map areas are lucky to keep people interested for a couple of days. As one of the guild leaders of knights Australia, I am seeing less of our veteran guildwars one players logging in daily into gw2 because of the shortage of content for our second year, many are bored with the lack of content and the promises of certain additions to gw2.
I would like to ask, will we have a guild vs guild 8man+ teams and a guild hall coming? or will we be stuck with limited 5vs 5 man teams, repetative zerk mode dungeons and content that lasts less then a few days.
Many of u on sea of sorrows in wvw/eotm know me as commander carey , I say hello to u and hope that u will express your concern for veteran players simply not logging in or having a break

/signed

I agree. LS is great, but it comes and goes fairly quickly. A couple of different versions of PvP or something similiar is long over due.

I completely agree. I am playing both spvp and pve and have as well the option of playing good quality of WvW being on Seafarer’s Rest, but if we take a look over the past 2 years the added content is a bit thin.
Sure living world is good and innovative, but it has become for over an year the main course of the game development. Why is that not good ? Because living world is temporary content.
I am an architect myself and I know how actually hard is to design and visualize things, but for 2 years a game, which is aiming for top mmorpg, has actually given less than expected(giving the fact this is not Anet’s first game, so they aren’t “new” to the task).

spvp : skyhammer, some elites, merging pve pvp skins and a worthless matchmaking system

pve : Fractals, Aetherblade Path in TA, Southsun Cove, a tiny piece of land Dry Top and numerous tweaks and buffs.

And when we take a look back at Guild Wars 1:
Prophecies Release – April 26, 2005
Factions Release – April 28, 2006
Nightfall Release – October 27, 2006
3 Continents, a ton of new P E R M A N E N T content to explore and in the meanwhile having one of the best, if not the best PvP mode in RPGs.

In the architectural world Guild Wars 2 feels to me a bit like a pavillion as a concept itself. They come and go, make a bit of fuzz around it and then noone cares or they are deconstructed due to lack of usage.
Living world should be a side project, maybe First after the main project, which is Guild Wars 2 itself, but not turn the game into the main course.
After all living world as an idea is supposed to mirror the dynamic of our human world itself and things in it are made to endure and self-sustain, not to be changed week after another like handkerchieves.

p.s. Please don’t mix up the constructive critisism with whining, because if people were always happy with what we have existing there would never be progress.

Also Agreed. Played GW1 for years; put easily over 2600 hours into it. The only content that keeps me coming back to GW2 is WvW.

Great job on the new living story style; although the open world content did not really draw me in to grind for the new rewards the instances are fun and I might get around to replaying them.

Dungeons have to be the least fun I’ve had in a video game in a long time. Run past a ton of meatbag mobs hide in a corner to break aggro leash then fight a final boss. This set up DOES NOT fit in with the design philosophy of the game. I thought you guys wanted build diversity?

I’m still waiting for some organized pvp, GVG or heroes ascent. Right now we are 2 years in and still only have Random arenas (hotjoin) and Team Arenas. Anet, if you are going to push this game as a legit Esport then WE NEED MORE THEN 1 GAME MODE. introducing new game modes will increase build diversity.

Amazingly fighting over the same WvW maps is still enjoyable but I don’t how much longer that will last.

Sorry if this comes across as whining or wishlisting but I honestly do love GW2, I want to see it as top MMO.

Based on the devs original schedule, the next patch after this one should be a feature patch. Hopefully it is and we get some new things outside of the LS.

I suspect the next feature patch will contain at least 500 cooking and jewelcrafting, legendary trinkets, legendary weapons and precursor crafting. Outside of that though who knows.

As Diesel Stelar mentioned the phase of expansions in GW1 ended more or less after two years. In GW2 the phase of expansions starts after more or less two years. Are there sources where we can read what was really newly developed after the launch of GW1?

In addition the poster omitted many additions to GW2 to dramatise the situation.

For a preliminary evaluation of season 2 we should wait until Episode 4. Then it will be interesting, what the mid-season break will bring us as fill-in.

Sure living world is good and innovative, but it has become for over an year the main course of the game development. Why is that not good ? Because living world is temporary content.

You may have missed the announcement, but Living Story Season Two content is permanent.

@Inculpatus cedo : If we are gonna be getting small pieces of land every now and then and the next major features patch brings us just crafting to 500 and a few new skins, I can guarantee many people will leave the game. That’s what I basicly meant to say.

So better Anet feel a bit of heat and pressure, because next major patch will pretty much decide the fate of those, who are in the game since its release. I can’t really imagine many players sticking to GW2 for years just for the sake of item skins. It would be a shame if devs don’t see this coming.

@Diesel: People have been saying that since release.

I don’t know why anyone would want to judge the entire season after only two patches, but…if you see doom and gloom, I can only hope you will be pleasantly surprised. =)

Also, I’m not sure exactly how your response addresses the statement that, due to popular request, the content for Season Two is permanent. /shrug

I ought agree. I love me some new Personal Story and more importantly, development into the setting – actually getting to tackle on dragons again instead of Harley Quinn 2.0 is quite a refreshment, but.
Honestly, you can only kill enemies in so many ways with the same skills, weapons, setups and playstyles. If you are going to sell Guild Wars 2 over its gameplay, we could all use actual gameplay updates.
Trait updates do not really count as new content any longer. We appreciate them. But those are just polishings any game would do. It’s been two years. Spvp is still a mess. We are all using the exact same weapons, and pretty much the same skills. No new classes, and no varied new content given the Personal Storyline is always the same regardless of your character’s choices in the past.

I feel as if Guild Wars 2 was always a step close to be the best game ever, yet management choices make it take a leap horizontally into “And now, things nobody cares about!… Again!”

Yes this LS season is permanent; but without achievements there is really no re-playable content. Dry Top will empty out, and the instances are pretty much single player. Sure you can do it with a group but there is no reason. The instances are not hard enough to require group play; although I’m sure with time they will get harder.

What has been successful permanent additions? EotM and fractals. Both are heavily used additions which have seriously improved the game and added a lot of re-playablity. Sure maybe in a year or two I will come back and play through LS 2 instances again; but it will never hold players attention more then additions like GvG or new pvp modes. We play MMOs because we want to play a game with other people. If I want to do a single player instance, I’ll just switch over to Dark Souls.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

@Diesel: People have been saying that since release.

I don’t know why anyone would want to judge the entire season after only two patches, but…if you see doom and gloom, I can only hope you will be pleasantly surprised. =)

Also, I’m not sure exactly how your response addresses the statement that, due to popular request, the content for Season Two is permanent. /shrug

I agree 100%. The broader truth is that nothing that they do will ever make everyone happy.

People were screaming for permanent content. Now that it is here, it isn’t good enough and they want more. Nothing will ever satisfy some people.

And you are also right, judging after 2 updates? Wow. That is just insane.

If we get an expansion sized update over the living story 2’s life time, there will still be complaining. Nothing is ever good enough for some people.

jheryn.8390:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

@Diesel: People have been saying that since release.

I don’t know why anyone would want to judge the entire season after only two patches, but…if you see doom and gloom, I can only hope you will be pleasantly surprised. =)

Also, I’m not sure exactly how your response addresses the statement that, due to popular request, the content for Season Two is permanent. /shrug

I agree 100%. The broader truth is that nothing that they do will ever make everyone happy.

People were screaming for permanent content. Now that it is here, it isn’t good enough and they want more. Nothing will ever satisfy some people.

And you are also right, judging after 2 updates? Wow. That is just insane.

If we get an expansion sized update over the living story 2’s life time, there will still be complaining. Nothing is ever good enough for some people.

I think you missed Diesl’s comment about constructive feedback. The LS makes me happy, it was enjoyable to spend 2 hours engaged in the well done story.

jheryn.8390:

People were screaming for permanent content. Now that it is here, it isn’t good enough and they want more. Nothing will ever satisfy some people.

Why do people keep saying these things? This is a ridiculous and flawed statement. FFXI released an expansion, everyone was extremely happy about it, played the hell through it, and enjoyed the new classes. Now they provide small updates every month that provides permanent, if minor content, and everyone is jolly as a kitten.

“People will complain regardless of what you do, so they should do whatever!” is not how it works. You first release actual playthrough changing content that refreshes old content; See gameplay, weaponry, skill or racial updates.
Then you add new storyline content little by little while people are trying out the new things so that it will not feel stale to do the same content several times, as the gameplay will make different tactics and playstyles change the outcome drastically.

Anet may disagree or agree with this train of thought and they are in their utmost right to do what they think is best with their project, but the whole “People complain one way or another” argument to dismiss people’s opinions or views on a subject is superfluous.

Anmida.4058:

jheryn.8390:

People were screaming for permanent content. Now that it is here, it isn’t good enough and they want more. Nothing will ever satisfy some people.

Why do people keep saying these things? This is a ridiculous and flawed statement. FFXI released an expansion, everyone was extremely happy about it, played the hell through it, and enjoyed the new classes. Now they provide small updates every month that provides permanent, if minor content, and everyone is jolly as a kitten.

“People will complain regardless of what you do, so they should do whatever!” is not how it works. You first release actual playthrough changing content that refreshes old content; See gameplay, weaponry, skill or racial updates.
Then you add new storyline content little by little while people are trying out the new things so that it will not feel stale to do the same content several times, as the gameplay will make different tactics and playstyles change the outcome drastically.

Anet may disagree or agree with this train of thought and they are in their utmost right to do what they think is best with their project, but the whole “People complain one way or another” argument to dismiss people’s opinions or views on a subject is superfluous.

So you are the authority on what should and shouldn’t be done? I’m sorry but I didn’t get the memo.

It is anything but superfluous. It is the truth. Some of the very people I saw begging, threatening and pleading for new permanent content are now yelling and screaming about getting the very content they were asking for.

Opinions are great, but the constant barrage of “This is terrible” worn out and just sounds like a broken record.

And to be quite frank, I was in no way speaking of people like you and sendaf. Both of your comments come across as constructive and things you would like to see. I was referring to the person that Inculpatus cedo was speaking to.

If you took offense to what I wrote, you may be a little to touchy. It was not meant or directed at you.

As for what I said being ridiculous, it is hardly that. No matter what you give some people it is never good enough. I read and comment on these forums quite a bit and see the same people hating on everything. Nothing is good enough for them. If they get what they want they still have nothing positive to contribute.

And by “positive” I actually mean constructive. It doesn’t mean that everyone has to fall all over themselves loving everything done in game. It also doesn’t mean griping, complaining, whining, and screaming until ANet bows to his or her personal desires.

And what you described may be what you would like to see happen, but it is certainly not what I want to see happen. I like the new content as it is. I don’t want the old content changed. That is just how you perceive that the game needs changed. You are welcome to that opinion, but don’t tell me that that is how I am supposed to want it too.

I am not dismissing anyone’s views. I am most certainly saying that complaints and whining are rampant and constructive feed back is in small supply.

jheryn.8390:

So you are the authority on what should and shouldn’t be done? I’m sorry but I didn’t get the memo.

No, sir. I have merely noted and explained what other games do, and seemingly works well and without negative feedback from its general community.

jheryn.8390:

It is anything but superfluous. It is the truth. Some of the very people I saw begging, threatening and pleading for new permanent content are now yelling and screaming about getting the very content they were asking for.

Opinions are great, but the constant barrage of “This is terrible” worn out and just sounds like a broken record.

And to be quite frank, I was in no way speaking of people like you and sendaf. Both of your comments come across as constructive and things you would like to see. I was referring to the person that Inculpatus cedo was speaking to.

If you took offense to what I wrote, you may be a little to touchy. It was not meant or directed at you.

I did not take offense, nor did I take it as something directed at me, however I see it posted often to dismiss most complaints, in many occassions including constructive critizism as if it was the allmighty card of “shut up and enjoy your potatoes as they are, you’ll complain anyways”, which under most cases does nothing to actually support people giving appropriate opinions.
I would have assumed that the general crowd would simply ignore blind haters much as the developers do, and attempt to simply draw ideas from the idea pool, rather than fish for it in the shark-filled sea of annoyance.

jheryn.8390:

As for what I said being ridiculous, it is hardly that. No matter what you give some people it is never good enough. I read and comment on these forums quite a bit and see the same people hating on everything. Nothing is good enough for them. If they get what they want they still have nothing positive to contribute.

And by “positive” I actually mean constructive. It doesn’t mean that everyone has to fall all over themselves loving everything done in game. It also doesn’t mean griping, complaining, whining, and screaming until ANet bows to his or her personal desires.

And what you described may be what you would like to see happen, but it is certainly not what I want to see happen. I like the new content as it is. I don’t want the old content changed. That is just how you perceive that the game needs changed. You are welcome to that opinion, but don’t tell me that that is how I am supposed to want it too.

I am not dismissing anyone’s views. I am most certainly saying that complaints and whining are rampant and constructive feed back is in small supply.

I will address the subject of “whiners”=/=“focus crowd” the same as previously mentioned; There is, as you say, a clear difference between the people that you draw opinions from, and just the sea of hatred. We both agree on that point, so that’s all as far as this point goes.

As for what I mentioned, no. I would not have the old content, or the current content, changed – I would have its gameplay improved. In no way could I see people bursting hatred out of new weaponry additions. New skills. New variety that would make content generally replayable without changing it, in order to give the developers more time to properly gather their storytelling, instead of being prompt to butcher it “We all knew Mordremoth all along because Pact researchers” style, due to timed schedules and hurrying up their work.

Any misunderstandings surfaced beforehand or currently, I apologize.

Anmida.4058:

SNIP
Any misunderstandings surfaced beforehand or currently, I apologize.

NP. We are all good.

Lets keep this thread going!

So the new style of LS, lots of instances with living world included, works and a lot of people like it. How can this style of LS be improved? Especially in the area of applying lasting content to the game.

For me, make the instances more group oriented! My favorite living story content was the dungeon from Flame and Frost (raiding the weapons factory); it was an enjoyable difficulty and length. If that particular dungeon instance was still available, I would still be playing it.

People have been begging for a “last stand survival” type game mode. Just slip it into an instance mission!

@jherin: You were too quick to critisize my opinion, before understanding what I said.
I unlike many of those whiners and trolls, you were addressing, enjoy all aspects of the game – pve, pvp, WvW.
I unlike many am as well designer and completely know what the processes : brainstorming – having an idea – giving it shape and figure – putting it down on paper – creating a finished 3D product. I also know what kind of mess is actually coordinating different project departments and assembling a product, which is from most if not all points of view ballanced.
Taking all things into consideration I can assume devs don’t have time to produce a major patch pack anywhere near the capacity of Factions or Nightfall. Of course quantity=/quality, but I will ask you something. Do you remember all of “Cutthroat Politics” or “Tower of Nightmares” ? I barely remember anything and sure I won’t remember even a fraction of these episodes within an year.

Now Season 2 is a step forward with the permanent content. Probably in the end we will discover a zone as big as Malchor’s Leap + Straits of Devastation. What we don’t see is a major gameplay change. With the new sandy wastelands of maguuma are we being prepared for a potential “reunion” with a lost class? Maybe Dervish or Paragon? Maybe a new class and rescaling a bit the warrior will bring the much needed dungeon zerk fix.
Things need to shake up.

I think it is way too early in the season to worry, but do agree that the living story seasons need to be alot more than a few stories and new maps.

Ideally, by the end of the season, we should see the following:

- New Maps
- New Dynamic Events
- New Guild Missions
- New Dungeons
- New Fractals
- New World Bosses
- New Traits and Utility Skills (this one is very important – was the core of the character progression model they unveiled earlier this year)

Additionally, there will be the feature packs, which will hopefully include:

- New PvP modes
- New Goals and Events in WvW
- New Mini Games
- New things to spend guild influence on (Really want guild halls)
- Improvements to UI/core mechanics
- Many more surprises.

I think we will see most of these, and maybe some more – which will keep me sated and happy with the game. A new profession or weapons would be nice, but arent high on my list of wants.

IMO, the worst case would be the season turns into just the story instances and new maps/dynamic events, but I think they know that would be a HUGE step backwards for this game.

Blaeys.3102 great post!
Certainly sums up tidily what would keep people interested and coming back to GW2. New PvP modes and goals/events in WvW are well overdue as is fresh guild orientated content. Stuff for guilds to do together has been largely overlooked so far.

I have enjoyed the LS2 so far but it does not keep me in Dry Top past working through the story and cheevos. I certainly hope that I am pleasantly surprised as Anet add to Dry Top as the living story unfolds but I hope that they are also prioritizing improvements to the game in general.

Several of our guild GW1 vets have expressed disappointment with the current living story and I have to wonder whether the drip feed release of the LS is itself a flaw. A complete expansion type release would probably go along way to answering alot of criticism about the LS. The new content drip feed doesn’t provide enough challenge to last through until the next patch! I certainly see these guys logging on less and less as they become bored with the game in it’s present state. Anet should be concerned at losing loyal GW fans. As friends leave the game, the game itself becomes less enjoyable and the attrition continues.

I have also been enjoying LS2 thus far. It’s not perfect, but it’s much better.

A lot of the things people are listing (I feel) would fall under the ‘feature’ definition. As Anet has stated that ‘features’ and ‘story’ will be separate patches, I don’t expect to see them as part of the story updates. Things like new pvp modes, gvg, guild halls, etc would all be in a feature patch unless their addition was somehow written into the story (which, for most of those, is semi-unrealistic based on the story premise). I do fully expect to see at least one dungeon this season, that could easily be wrapped into the story, just as the original dungeons are tied to the personal story. Loosely, but they are.

With Anet separating story from feature content, I do expect their feature packs to be…extensive, depending on how long it takes them to push one out. Obviously if they push one out every 3-4 months, it wouldn’t be as large or option packed as one that took 6 or 8 to push out, and larger features or system over hauls (like the guild shard consolidation for example) will likely require more time and effort than something smaller in scope. At this point I’m not going to make any judgements, because (once again) they are trying something a little bit different, something ‘new’ for them. I’m sure there will be kinks that they have to work out.

I know a lot of people are expecting a feature patch sometime in the next month, but I’m not holding my breath on it. It’s only been roughly 3 months since the last one, and I haven’t seen anything even hinting at one. Admittedly, I could have missed an announcement, but we knew well in advance that we were getting the last feature pack, and I would think that if they had another ready, they would tell us. Obviously they wouldn’t tell us what’s coming in it (they didn’t last time until basically right before it went live), just to expect one. Personally, I think it’ll be much closer to the end of the year before we see another feature pack. Although, if they do one sooner, I’d be pleasantly surprised.

I’d be happy if sPvP gets the kick out of the door. It seems to bind most dev resources outside of LS, which is meh because if the majority plays PvE and WvW, how about some non-content development is done there? How about a Pve-balance-patch? A WvW-rebalance? Map changes to WvW?

Nope, it’s forever and ever sPvP, tPvP, sPvP, sPvP, on twitch, in posts, in patches. Because there’s a handful of “srsbz”-teams doing it, it has to be supported with 10x as much dev time as even the hardcore players put in. -.-

Anmida.4058:

jheryn.8390:

People were screaming for permanent content. Now that it is here, it isn’t good enough and they want more. Nothing will ever satisfy some people.

Why do people keep saying these things? This is a ridiculous and flawed statement. FFXI released an expansion, everyone was extremely happy about it, played the hell through it, and enjoyed the new classes. Now they provide small updates every month that provides permanent, if minor content, and everyone is jolly as a kitten.

Not sure what FFXI you are talking about but when I went to the games forums and went to the general discussion section… 15 out of the 20 posts on the front pages were complaints and threats to leave the game… so I guess not…

You’ll never make everyone happy, it is impossible. Everyone likes different things.

My issue is largely with dungeons. They need to create more permanent dungeons, some that last longer than 20 mins (up to 3 hours, etc). I want dungeons that actually feel like dungeons and take up lots of time and skill from the team working together and the strengths of each individual shining out among their comrades (fractals and arah are close, but that’s basically it…).

But its not just the lack of dungeons, its the way they have been disected by the masses to such an extent that every dungeon has more or less descended into huddling into corners over and over again mashing buttons 1-8. You just cant find parties anymore with people who want to play the game the way it was intended, or if you do its very rare. Why has nothing been done to neuter this incredibly stale way of playing the game, the way of playing the game that has become the normal for every party.

This is the double edged sword within the problem: people just make their character all DPS (no diversity), because defence when you stack isnt so important as killing the boss quickly (they could really do with making the game a lot harsher on pure zerg builds, especially in dungeons) and because you don’t do anything that requires skill.

Because people don’t use any actual skill (or don’t have to be skilled) when playing the game, they don’t get any better. When new/harder stuff comes out, suddenly they keep dying so they assume its not their fault (because they, like, totally do dungeons all the time flawlessly) and then complain that its to hard, unfairly hard, and the devs go back to releasing boring/repetitive/easy content because they get leashed (i assume) by their management to appease the masses.

this has started to sound like sheer complaints, but think about the recent furor over the jumping element of the recent living story. Its VERY easy yet there has been mass complaints….i couldn’t jump when i started this game, because i sought out jumping challenges, i got better. Because all jumping points are optional, people don’t do them and inherently suck at jumping. But they dont see that as their fault, they instead see it as jumping should never even be required to do anything in the game. The same is with every aspect of the game, if its to easy all the time, if people find ways to do something that is supposed to be hard, with ease. They don’t get any better at the game and, in turn, will actually start to oppose progressive thinking and the intuitive/clever ideas that the devs come up with will get thrown out the window in place of boring/repetitive/easy content which are easily chewed (completed very quickly vs how long it took to make).

Well the latest LS patch was bugged beyond belief on the first day and now go back to play it again, the open world events are DEAD already and some still bugged. It is getting more difficult to stay positive and interested about the new LS after this latest frustrating release.

Feature patch overdue!!

Thread title had me hoping the initial post would be kind, but no. ArenaNet is apparently a faceless robot with the words “crap here” written on it. Big comical arrow.