Guild Wars 2

For once my fashion addiction paid off, i had an extra set of appearance armor for the fight. I solo’ed on mesmer but died like 6 times. And I actually liked the ring the first time thru…but by the third time it was really tedious. The ring is a cool addition and sort of ‘makes sense’ in a boss fight but why three times? And why is fighting the dragon the easiest part? After you finish the ring you can just smack on the dragon.

And it really highlights just how useless your comrades are (not just in this fight but all of the time). I mean after you finish you really do feel like a hero because this group your with isn’t capable of saving anything. I got tired of hearing ‘hey boss’ and then she throws a circle right on a mine. Just throw the ring in the same spot or better yet jump in the arena and help me. Anet should keep the personal challenges the same but make at least a nod to immersion by making the npc’s seem relevant-up the number of creatures and show the npc’s taking down at least some of them.

Now why did i finish it? The story rocks..the caithe/wynne/faolin minidrama was really good. And in fairness after the battle(wore me out) i really did want to kill the dragon.

Notes- On npc weakness and frankly stupidity why does the trinity set up bases that are constantly overrun. And in the last cutscene where all the ships are getting destroyed i was facepalming. I mean guys plan a little bit better than ‘were going to ride the ships into the jungle’…totally reinforces the idea that you are the only one capable of saving the day-because your comrades are constantly doing moronic things.

Krestfallen.8025:

*Please, please note that this is not a criticism or attack against you personally, fellow poster, but rather is intended as advice for other players who are having issues similar to yours.

All good mate just posted in frustration after multiple attempts, one success, then getting punished for the same things on an alt character.

It’s great advice, good solutions for problems that i personally reckon shouldn’t exist in the first place.

Krestfallen.8025:

TL/DR (I hate these, but in all fairness those were long posts): I strongly believe that Arena Net is using their Story Instances (low pressure environments) to teach players the skills they need to fight challenging bosses before they then go out into the open world and fight upscaled/more challenging bosses with the zerg (high pressure environments).

Someone from anet said ages ago (around when Tequatl got his update) that they design content by looking at the average skill level and then making it just a little bit tougher. I don’t think it’s a deliberate attempt to create an army of skilled buttwhippers, they are just trying to keep it fun and interesting for the majority of players, but it works out that way.

Yeah, I’ll admit it. The first time I did this boss (ch 8 endboss) I found it absurdly difficult and broke all my armor trying to figure out what I was supposed to do and how the mechanics worked. Ha. I had the most trouble with lighting the fires. First, was the delay with the torch, then I didn’t notice the sparkle on the ground and just ran around in circles in confusion. I finally happened to notice the dialogue while seeing the arc of the torch. Oooooooh! Then I’d go to light one, I’d get an orange circle and dodge away… This happened every time. I tried relying on Braham’s protective bubble, but I must have done it during the attack where it does absolutely nothing (which I now know is telegraphed by a smaller orange circle) so I concluded it never does anything. It seemed impossible. Eventually I did figure out that you can complete the channel even when being brutally smashed into the ground, but it took awhile. I’m not even that bad in general, I soloed wicked rodeo, and all the achievements for this encounter. But this was tough the first time.

I feel you on it being way too hard though. I quit TSW after Tokyo. I played through the first couple (super frustrating) updates, but haven’t touched the last one which I think came out in summer. The big difference there is the massive grind for top level gear that would make the encounters easier. Not going to do it. (For reference for those who know the game, I was like a 10.2 and played story updates with a friend in blues.) The gw2 philosophy is so much better. I’d say keep trying, you’ll get it eventually, but I understand completely just not wanting to.

Lalocat.6793:

Someone from anet said ages ago (around when Tequatl got his update) that they design content by looking at the average skill level and then making it just a little bit tougher. I don’t think it’s a deliberate attempt to create an army of skilled buttwhippers, they are just trying to keep it fun and interesting for the majority of players, but it works out that way.

Yes, they did say something like that, I think I can even recall the dev, but I don’t want to go in the guessing game. Good thing you brought it up, cause this is good starting point on why addind gradually harder content is a good thing.

Imagine there are 3 sets of players with different skill levels: Low, Medium and High. If Anet adds content that requires Low skill level, Medium and High skill leveled players will find it boring.
If you add Medium, High will find it boring, Low will find it hard.
If you add High, Medim and Low will find it hard.

If you want everyone (or most) to enjoy your content, you should design the content that most will not find boring or hard.

Now these skill levels are not permanent. You can get a Low skill level player to get better with midly challenging content, however you cannot get a High skill level player to get Low.

Thus with adding ever higher difficulty challanges, the lower skill level will increase, allowing for harder content to come out and benefit more people.

Is it working? I would say yes: take a look at current Tequatl (yes, it has been nerfed a bit). I kill it 1-2 times a week, and I have not seen it fail in months, actually people are complaining that it’s too easy.

Edit:
The question remains: Is hard content actually worth it?
I would awnser this with a real life example: I’m an avid beach volleyball player in the summer. We have started playing with my friends about 5-6 years ago (when a court was built nearby). While we had fun in the beginning, when we were ‘scrubbing’ around, the more we got into it, and the harder the matches got, the more exciting and fun it became. It’s kinda the same thing with games…. and everything really.

Taygus:

I kinda see your point of view. If you indeed are playing this game only for the story, not to have any awesome encounter, or to feel alive when playing this awesome game, and it’s incredibly fun and complex combat. Then yes this game may not be for you. I and many many many others have been longing for ages, for anet to bring us not only this amazing story so far. But to also have an adrenaline kick out of it, and really have that feeling of accomplishment, from a fight. And unfortunately for you I think you are a very small percentage of those ppl, who finds this game “too hard”.

Everyone I know or have ever met in this game, finds it as I do. Just a bit too easy, and I can definitely say this without any doubts. That pretty much everyone, except(a small percentage, including you). Are loving the way that Anet are taking things, and they would pretty much loose their entire playerbase if they, in this future expansion wouldn’t be able to make this game even more challenging!!!

And to get back yo your method of solving, the challenging content by just making harder when you are going for the achievemnts, and then YOU! can have your first playthrough on easy mode.
I agree that they definitely should make it even harder, if you are going for the achievements. But I cannot stress this enough, Nothing and I say it again NOTHING beats your first playthrough! be it an entire game, boss, dungeon, living story chapter. It doesn’t matter, if it is not challenging you enough the first time you play it, in a way that you wont forget how your heart was pumping, and your eyes were focused on the battle. Then pretty much no one other than Achievemnt hunters will play that encounter again.

So I guess I kinda see your frustration. But my honest opinion is, don’t play this game then. And don’t try to drag us down to your easymode level. I know it sounds hard, but it’s the truth.
It would absolutely kill this game, if it kept on going with content and encounters, made just for casual players. which in your case, as you describe how you can’t beat this boss. Has no clue how to play this game. I’m not saying i’m the best at this game, but c’mon this encounter was not even close to being hard. Every clue to this enounter was given to you. kitten the NPC’s even said when they either threw the torch, or gave you a shield bubble with stability, or gave your timewarp.

So all in all, I as many others are liking the way that Anet, are finally realising that this game needs proper encounters. So please don’t screw it over by comlaining, just because you lack the proper skill for this game thank you

Ps. don’t be too offended by this post, it wasn’t a direct attack on you, just stating the obvious, and trying to clear out what I think, you have misunderstood by what a game should give. Peace!

Lalocat.6793:

Someone from anet said ages ago (around when Tequatl got his update) that they design content by looking at the average skill level and then making it just a little bit tougher. I don’t think it’s a deliberate attempt to create an army of skilled buttwhippers, they are just trying to keep it fun and interesting for the majority of players, but it works out that way.

I think that this is— in my obnoxiously long winded way xD— what I was trying to get at. If you design an encounter to be “just a little bit tougher” than the “average” skill level of the playerbase then the average skill level will rise: players find an encounter that’s too tough, they learn, practice, and (eventually) execute the mechanics of this new encounter and then they (hopefully) beat it. Now all of a sudden a player sitting at the “average” skill level has a greater familiarity with 1) the kinds of boss mechanics they might run into, and 2) how to use the core mechanics of the game and of their preferred proffessions to overcome those types of mechanics.
To put it another way, after overcoming something that was just a little too tough for them at first, that player has now broadened their “vocabulary” of “skills” that they can call on in future encounters; they are now a “better” player.

Also, @Theonard: While I acknowledge that you presented your argument in as positive a fashion as possible, I think our OP Taygus has been well spirited enough, and that enough advice has been presented throughout the thread, that the “This game isn’t for you” argument is a tad unneccesary.

Also, also, I think it’s important for all of us (on both sides of this discussion) to remember that this is an MMO and as such it’s designed with a very broad audience in mind; just because some types of content are too hard and/or not to your liking and/or whatever doesn’t mean you have to write off the whole game. There’s tons of stuff to do for all types of players, with even more content waiting for us just over the horizon!

I think this debate is not about wether content should be easy or difficult, but instead is questioning in which spaces challenging/intermediary content should appear.

Theonord.6359:

Taygus:

Ps. don’t be too offended by this post, it wasn’t a direct attack on you, just stating the obvious, and trying to clear out what I think, you have misunderstood by what a game should give. Peace!

not meant to offensive?

you posted multiple points that ARE offensive.
“or to feel alive when playing this awesome game, " ..implying I can’t see how awesome this game is.

“wont forget how your heart was pumping, and your eyes were focused on the battle. "
implying this is important to a game. I don’t get this feeling from encounters like this.

I get it from completing a jp .. making that jump without falling…or even the infiltration achieve. ( I loved that one actually.)

“Has no clue how to play this game. "
definitely insulting, I explained in further posts, that my difficulty comes from physical issues.

“but c’mon this encounter was not even close to being hard.”
not everyone has the same definition of hard, just because you didnt find something hard, doesn’t mean it wasn’t.

“you lack the proper skill for this game”
another insult.

“what a game should give”
we have different opinions of this. I play games to chill….not to get an adrenaline rush. When you’ve lived through kitten, you don’t need it from a game.

“Nothing and I say it again NOTHING beats your first playthrough”

I do agree with this. If my first play through is not enjoyable, I don’t WANT to play more.
if its easier..I’m more keen to try the harder challenges, to see what they’re like.

“argument is a tad unneccesary.
Also, also, I think it’s important for all of us (on both sides of this discussion) to remember that this is an MMO and as such it’s designed with a very broad audience in mind; just because some types of content are too hard and/or not to your liking and/or whatever doesn’t mean you have to write off the whole game. There’s tons of stuff to do for all types of players, with even more content waiting for us just over the horizon!
I think this debate is not about wether content should be easy or difficult, but instead is questioning in which spaces challenging/intermediary content should appear.”

thank you,
bolded point in particular is what I want the devs to consider.

but I do understand, they are trying to improve the skills of the community, and..I appreciate that,..though I don’t really want to feel forced into it.

Taygus, you mentioned lag in one of your posts. Could this be the major contributing factor in why parts of the game are frustratingly difficult….because your computer and/or internet connection can’t keep up? I know of a couple times when I have had lag in huge boss fights, and it causes me nothing but frustration, because my actions in game don’t happen when I do them on my computer…..that only happens in huge boss fights for me…….does your lag happen on a fairly regular basis in game?

And I am by no means telling you how to play the game or what you should like or how you should do something ……..just wondering if maybe your lag problems are at the center of your frustration with the game?

Teon.5168:

Taygus, you mentioned lag in one of your posts. Could this be the major contributing factor in why parts of the game are frustratingly difficult….because your computer and/or internet connection can’t keep up? I know of a couple times when I have had lag in huge boss fights, and it causes me nothing but frustration, because my actions in game don’t happen when I do them on my computer…..that only happens in huge boss fights for me…….does your lag happen on a fairly regular basis in game?

And I am by no means telling you how to play the game or what you should like or how you should do something ……..just wondering if maybe your lag problems are at the center of your frustration with the game?

no doubt lag plays a part…I have a dodgy internet connection, so it affects all aspects of game play.

I get surprised if I don’t lag xD

Taygus.4571:

Teon.5168:

Taygus, you mentioned lag in one of your posts. Could this be the major contributing factor in why parts of the game are frustratingly difficult….because your computer and/or internet connection can’t keep up? I know of a couple times when I have had lag in huge boss fights, and it causes me nothing but frustration, because my actions in game don’t happen when I do them on my computer…..that only happens in huge boss fights for me…….does your lag happen on a fairly regular basis in game?

And I am by no means telling you how to play the game or what you should like or how you should do something ……..just wondering if maybe your lag problems are at the center of your frustration with the game?

no doubt lag plays a part…I have a dodgy internet connection, so it affects all aspects of game play.

I get surprised if I don’t lag xD

I think that is the main problem with the game, then, for you. I have played lots of mmorpgs in the past, and had a few that were horrible…..due to my poor internet connection or a low grade video card I had at the time……I don’t have those troubles anymore with my fiber optics internet connection and a good specced computer…..except on boss fights when there are 200+ people…..and EVERYONE lags during those…..

But I understand your lag issues……makes it very, very difficult to truly experience any online game without sheer frustration becoming a very real issue.

You don’t suck at the game…….your internet connection does.

One suggestion, Taygus. It might not be just your internet connection. Check also for programs running in the background, such as an antivirus program. You might have an antivirus program that takes up a lot of overhead…….try turning it off while you run the game…..also turn off any other programs that may be running in the background. Might also try changing your graphics to ‘performance’ setting.

These things might help with your lagging. Might not, too….but is worth a try.

Teon.5168:

One suggestion, Taygus. It might not be just your internet connection. Check also for programs running in the background, such as an antivirus program. You might have an antivirus program that takes up a lot of overhead…….try turning it off while you run the game…..also turn off any other programs that may be running in the background. Might also try changing your graphics to ‘performance’ setting.

These things might help with your lagging. Might not, too….but is worth a try.

nah, I have an fps of about 63.. …..about 20-30 in large groups.
(that was much lower, when I didn’t realise.. even on high power, my laptop was throttling the cpu rather than turning on the fans >.>…..)

my internet fluctuates between 2-5mbs., (it fluctuates quite randomly, but I think this fluctuation is what causes the lag.)
the area we’re in is pretty bad for online gaming,..old phone lines, that can’t carry a steady/high speed.

~steals your fiber-optic lines mwuhahaha~

thanks for the suggestion of course, and I may turn off programs anyway, maybe that will raise my fps in large groups,

As some one who has come back to the game recently I can say that the Chapter 8 story boss is probably the one thing that I am seriously considering quitting over and not buying the expansion even though I am looking forward to what is coming in the expansion.

The mechanics of the boss fight are just plain wrong. It’s nothing more than a gimmick to keep people interested. I play games because I enjoy them and I’m not sure how any intelligent person can enjoy pointless mechanics like that.

And for those of you who think it was easy well good for you and I couldn’t care less what you think. Guild Wars 2 is a game I would like to enjoy but then I continuously find crap like this that only makes me want to quit.

(And don’t get me start on the elementalist, why a class that contols the elements would need to dodge in the first place is beyond me but I can live with that as if fits with the game mechanics.)

So if this is the direction the mechanic for story quests are going then I will seriously not buy the expansion I have better things to do than spend hours every day getting enough skill to be good at a computer game!

I play computer games for enjoyment not to be good at them.

Eldarone.8623:

As some one who has come back to the game recently I can say that the Chapter 8 story boss is probably the one thing that I am seriously considering quitting over and not buying the expansion even though I am looking forward to what is coming in the expansion.

The mechanics of the boss fight are just plain wrong. It’s nothing more than a gimmick to keep people interested. I play games because I enjoy them and I’m not sure how any intelligent person can enjoy pointless mechanics like that.

And for those of you who think it was easy well good for you and I couldn’t care less what you think. Guild Wars 2 is a game I would like to enjoy but then I continuously find crap like this that only makes me want to quit.

(And don’t get me start on the elementalist, why a class that contols the elements would need to dodge in the first place is beyond me but I can live with that as if fits with the game mechanics.)

So if this is the direction the mechanic for story quests are going then I will seriously not buy the expansion I have better things to do than spend hours every day getting enough skill to be good at a computer game!

I play computer games for enjoyment not to be good at them.

Ok?

Eldarone.8623:

The mechanics of the boss fight are just plain wrong. It’s nothing more than a gimmick to keep people interested.

Great, so after all this we’re back here again: “I can’t beat this fight, therefore it must be badly designed and shouldn’t be here.”
If we’re going to keep this thread alive (and seriously I thought we had all kind of gotten our own little bits of closure on this subject) can we at least pretend like we’re using our critical thinking skills?

Those of you who are nerd-raging over this fight, did you even take a single moment to consider why the fight was designed the way it was?

The reason that (Mystery Cave’s) Shadow of the Dragon is “hard” is because there are a quadrillion things going on at once, and the developers are challenging you to 1) keep track of them all, and 2) prioritize what needs taking care of first.

• Which attacks are unblockable and how to I avoid them?
• What does this telegraph look like and what attack does it correspond to?
• This attack has a very subtle and short telegraph. Is it targeting me, or is it targeting a portion of the arena? Can I avoid it by staying clear of certain parts of the arena?
• Is Braham’s Sanctuary up? If it is, is it close enough to be worth it, or am I better off lighting the fire on my own? If it isn’t up, is it worth waiting for?
• Rox just threw down the Divine Fire. Where is it? Is it in a safe area, or is it in a dangerous place? Should I grab it immediately, or will it be safer to wait for bomb/attack/shockwave to pass and then grab it? Will it last long enough for me to wait for those attacks to pass?
• What causes the Shadow Smotherers to spawn? How do I hurt them?
• I’ve just lit a fire, but I’ve just gotten another Divine Fire buff. Do I use it to light another fire or do I save it for the Smotherer that’s about to spawn? (Hint: I already gave advice on how you can do both).
• The Circle of Fire is almost complete, but a new round of Flower Bombs has spawned. Can I light the last flame fast enough, or do I take care of the bombs?
• Now that I’ve trapped Shadow how can I best burst him down? Is it safe to melee? Do I have enough ranged damage to stay at range? Where is Kasmeer’s Time Warp? Is it in a safe spot, or am I better off staying in an area that’s clear of the boulders that are raining down?

And on, and on. But guess what? Teaching your players how to keep track of multiple things and teach them how to prioritize are both important skills. Skills that get used immediately against Vinewrath (which was released in the same patch):

• The fight is timed so I have to keep my DPS as high as I can.
• What is this boss’s attack rotation so that I can even stay alive and DPS in the first place?
• There’s an unblockable attack coming. How do I know when it’s coming? How do I avoid it? Are people building the honey combs (for Beekeeper) or do I have to gather the swarms myself?
• Are there reflects up around Mangler or do I have to throw them up myself?
• Are people killing the pustules for buffs, or are they about to explode and wipe the group with hella crazy poison damage?
• Is anyone popping flowers in the Dark Wing fight? Where are the open flowers located? Are any of them close enough to Dark Wing that I can keep attacking him while he’s sitting by Vinewrath?

It might sound like nothing, but I’ve seen Beekeeper and Dark Wing (two bosses that are very easy) fail because no one was setting up the safety mechanics.
When it first came out, I’d see Mangler get failed 2-3 times in a row until people realized that it’s not just about reflects, but that the pustules are important too.

Hell, I hadn’t died to Gold and Silver in weeks, but just this morning I forgot the important lessons the LS Bosses taught me (be wary of your environment) and kicked the bucket: I had stunned one Terragriff and had started my burst rotation, but I was so busy tunnel visioning the one that I completely forgot to watch for where the second one was. It downed me with a surprise charge from behind, then I got killed as both Terragriff started their “roar of infinite doom” and I died.
So do Gold and Silver suck? Are they a gimmick? Nope. I forgot the mechanic. It was my fault. And yes, in this case I deserved to die.

I’m starting to feel like a broken record here: Observation (watch the fight and see what happens). Processing (how do I counter what happens and what takes priority?). Execution (now that I’ve figured out the mechanics, I can now kill the boss).

And I will argue til the day I die that these basic skills 1) need to be a part of the “core mechanics” of the game and 2) that these skills need to be taught in solo instances so that every individual player has them.

Otherwise players just get carried by the zerg (not necessarily bad in and of itself), and the developers get stuck making the same tired, shallow fights over and over because no one has the skills to do anything else; the very definition of stagnation (which is inherently bad. Very, very bad).

Eldarone.8623:

I play computer games for enjoyment not to be good at them.

And this? I literally do not even know what to make of this. Literally every video game ever is an exercise in problem solving and/or a test of skills. That’s what games do:
The game sets up a system of rules, presents you with an obstacle, then you figure out how to overcome that obstacle within the parameters of the aforementioned rules.

If the game contains a series of obstacles, those obstacles will almost always trend upward in difficulty as you get further along, because by passing the old obstacle you have demonstrated mastery of the old skills and now the game can test you with new ones.

I just snapped at someone for using the “Maybe this game isn’t for you” argument so I feel like the world’s biggest kitten right now, but looking at your post I honestly can’t even tell why you liked Guild Wars 2 in the first place.

sorry about all the silly elitist players trying to inflate their own ego by telling you it isnt hard and that they had a nice easy time beating it. thats just annoying

that being said can we make a distinction between challenging and tedious? they are not the same as we all know, i found the living story tedious, some bosses require me to repeat the same steps several times and some require me to just plug away at them with attacks for far too long, but neither of those is challenging, its tedious

You do realize that in order for something to be “tedious” it has to be easy, right? I mean, something can’t be “slow, dull, tiresome, or monotonous,” if it’s “putting you through your paces,” so to speak. So by your own admission you’re one of us [quote:] silly elitist players trying to inflate their own ego by telling you it isnt hard and that they had a nice easy time beating it[/quote.] ~.^

But back on topic, the very fact that you found these fights tedious is the very same reason that I continue to argue that players need to be faced with fights like these in low pressure environments like personal story instances.

I mean, just look at Vinewrath. Vinewrath uses the exact same model that the Marionette fight did. It’s 100% a recycled idea.

Given that we’re fighting what is basically the same fight we had last year (almost a year exactly in fact: Origins of Madness was released January 21rst while Point of No Return was released January 13th) it should be a step up. It should be different in some way. More challenging, or more complex, or something to make it an innovative step up.

But it’s not. It’s easier. It’s easier by a wide, wiiiiiiide margin.
Arena Net spent a full year of planning, designing, and building this, and all that work culminates in a stripped down, shallow, almost pathetic version of a fight we already fought a year ago, because the playerbase freaks out if they see something even slightly new.

How does that not make you sad? And I’m not saying that the player’s are sad. I’m genuinely asking how you can play this game for the two plus years it has been out, only to see that the developer’s think less of us as a playerbase now than they did a year ago?

Do you think I didn’t find some of these fights tedious? You think I don’t think some of them were dull, stuffed with filler, and a waste of time? I did. But I also saw how that was necessary, because as a player base, we suck. We have to have our hands held every step of the way. We have to have every little thing pointed out to us, and heaven forbid that we get asked to learn and/or handle two things at once, cause then kitten hits the fan.

But you are right. This fight should absolutely not be called challenging.

I’ve talked a lot about this fight, about what mechanics are in it, advice on how to over come this problem or that problem, but this evening I fought this boss again (I fight it a lot just for fun, but this time I did it with this thread in mind), and I really paid attention to what I was doing. Watching myself and watching how I was spending my time during this fight. And you know what I saw? You know how I avoided almost every attack it threw my way? You know how I beat it?

By running in a circle. That’s it. That’s all I did. I killed the tendrils to enter the “Circle of Flame phase”, I moved to the edge of the Arena (which the fight prompts you to do because the dragon burrowing is itself an attack telegraphed by two giant orange circles), then I ran in a circle. I blew up all the flowers (I even ran into a couple on purpose just to see how devastating it would be to mess up— it wasn’t). Then when they were gone I ran in a circle until I saw Rox drop the fire. Then I kept running until I saw Braham pop a shield somewhere. The only time I had to stop running in a circle was when I had to channel the fire, and— while I’ve already admitted his AI can be kitten y— you get a perma-protection, perma-stability shield to do it, with only one attack that can interrupt you, which is very clearly telegraphed. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I’m not saying this to make anyone feel bad. I’m not saying this “stoke my own ego.” There are those of you who are determined to hate this fight. That it shouldn’t have been where it was, that it was stupid, that it was etc… etc… and to you it won’t matter what I say.

But I’m not talking to you. I’m talking to the others who have engaged in a measured discourse with the posters in this thread, or those who’ve been reading but haven’t posted, those of you who aren’t already dead set on hating this for the sake of hating it. I invite you— invite you— to take a step back and at least ponder this for just a moment:

You were thwarted, stymied, vexed, frustrated, some of you even driven to the point of wanting to quit the game, by a boss that requires nothing more than running in one big circle.

I don’t know what else they could have done. Maybe the tripwires for the Flower Bombs should have had big red arrows pointing at them (like the Honey Combs do in the Beekeeper fight).
Maybe they should have made a little blue mote that flies around the arena showing you were to go (heck, name it Navi and have it shout “Hey, listen!” every five seconds).
Or maybe the whole fight should have been set on one big race track: give it a starting/finishing line and just have players follow a big white line until they’ve done enough laps and then the dragon explodes.

I get it: passions are running high because we’re all concerned about the future of the game and what direction it’s going in. We all want different things from the game, we’re all afraid that the game is going to get spoiled for us, we’re all hoping that the game gets “better” in a way we find fun.

But all I can say is that I am genuinely embarrassed that the content in this game has been spinning its wheels for an entire year. I do the Vinewrath fight. I do it regularly, and yes I enjoy it. But I’m also embarrassed by it and all it represents: that we as a playerbase, and the game as a whole, are lesser than we were a year ago.

I won’t be posting in this thread again. It’s abundantly clear that the lines in the sand have been drawn. But I’m just going to say it one last time because this is my genuine, viscerally, emotional reaction to what I’ve seen in the game over the past two years.

I am embarrassed that we— that all of us are so genuinely incapable that the Arena Net team had to gut and water down their own game. It’s embarrassing.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

I don’t find the boss mechanics hard, I find them extremely annoying.

True. It isn’t hard, it’s pretty easy to figure out. But it is extremely tedious. And that’s just for the story – achis are downright annoying.

I have the opposite problem as the OP. Boss fights I can handle. It took me a minute to figure out what to do with that dragon, and he did down me once, but I was fortunate to have a vine to rally off of and eventually beat him. At one point, I thought the fight was functionally impossible when those little shadow things kept putting out the fires I set, but then common sense took over and I realized that there must be a way to stop them from doing that, as there simply wasn’t enough time for a single person to light all four before one of the shadow things got to a fire. I figured it out, and from there, it wasn’t too bad at all.

On the other hand, content that I know should be easy somehow has me struggling. I took out the big bad dragon at the end of the story on my first try, but couldn’t get through Fallen Hopes (for some reason, the final chapter was presented to me first). Every single fight in that mission, I was either downed or defeated, and I’m still not entirely sure why. It was oddly jarring, and I just had to quit the mission to keep from getting overly frustrated with getting killed by simple vet mobs – the kind of mobs I normally walk all over without a second thought.

hedix.1986:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

I don’t find the boss mechanics hard, I find them extremely annoying.

True. It isn’t hard, it’s pretty easy to figure out. But it is extremely tedious. And that’s just for the story – achis are downright annoying.

People use the word “annoying” like this because they don’t understand its their own failures that are causing the frustration.

People use the word “tedious” like this cause they need to keep repeating the encounter because they keep dying to mechanics they can avoid OR they are awful at dealing damage OR both.

People use “easy” like this and fail to accomplish the task because they are too annoyed and bored.

People…

Coulter.2315:

hedix.1986:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

I don’t find the boss mechanics hard, I find them extremely annoying.

True. It isn’t hard, it’s pretty easy to figure out. But it is extremely tedious. And that’s just for the story – achis are downright annoying.

People use the word “annoying” like this because they don’t understand its their own failures that are causing the frustration.

And then there’s people that shoot the opinions of others down because they don’t agree with them.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

hedix.1986:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

I don’t find the boss mechanics hard, I find them extremely annoying.

True. It isn’t hard, it’s pretty easy to figure out. But it is extremely tedious. And that’s just for the story – achis are downright annoying.

People use the word “annoying” like this because they don’t understand its their own failures that are causing the frustration.

And then there’s people that shoot the opinions of others down because they don’t agree with them.

If it were someone’s opinion that the planet was a cube I would hope and expect people to shoot it down. Shooting down stupid statements is important.

Coulter.2315:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Coulter.2315:

hedix.1986:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

I don’t find the boss mechanics hard, I find them extremely annoying.

True. It isn’t hard, it’s pretty easy to figure out. But it is extremely tedious. And that’s just for the story – achis are downright annoying.

People use the word “annoying” like this because they don’t understand its their own failures that are causing the frustration.

And then there’s people that shoot the opinions of others down because they don’t agree with them.

If it were someone’s opinion that the planet was a cube I would hope and expect people to shoot it down. Shooting down stupid statements is important.

Are you for real…?
The shape of the planet is not open to debate, it’s an established fact. Wether someone experiences the boss mechanics as annoying or not is an opinion, not a fact. You don’t agree with it, that’s fine, but that doesn’t make it wrong.

And if you don’t want to be infracted/banned I’d refrain from making antagonizing statements like that.

If you can’t solo – get a group. It becomes easier. You are playing a MMORPG, might I remind you. This is not a single player game, it can certainly be played like one, but it’s still a MMO.

I personally thinks it’s a bit too much, I was playing the shadow of the dragon one and i got my kitten beat, like literally my health went down to 18000 and my armor was shot. After that it just became tedious rather than exciting. I was playing my engi and although I’m not an expert, I wouldn’t say I’m complete kitten either. If they want to underline how threatening the dragon is, they should do it by story not long times battling and breaking all my armour. A good game, or story should be able to be soloable without being frustating or time-consuming but I guess that’s just my opinion on it. Besides the story quests being put at a too difficult level, solo wise, the only other probable reason would be that engis got nerfed or my toon’s not kitted up properly.

Sunstreamer.7256:

I personally thinks it’s a bit too much, I was playing the shadow of the dragon one and i got my kitten beat, like literally my health went down to 18000 and my armor was shot. After that it just became tedious rather than exciting. I was playing my engi and although I’m not an expert, I wouldn’t say I’m complete kitten either. If they want to underline how threatening the dragon is, they should do it by story not long times battling and breaking all my armour. A good game, or story should be able to be soloable without being frustating or time-consuming but I guess that’s just my opinion on it. Besides the story quests being put at a too difficult level, solo wise, the only other probable reason would be that engis got nerfed or my toon’s not kitted up properly.

don’t you think it i kind of epic that you fought so hard that you’re just in bikini or speedos at the end of the battle? these speedos are not damaged at all and there’s not a single cut or bruise on the skin.:)
And the story is soloable even by a casual like me.
it was frustrating until I figuered out that some weapons don’t work so well for the shadow, but then it was actually cool.

Oreithyia.3064:

Sunstreamer.7256:

I personally thinks it’s a bit too much, I was playing the shadow of the dragon one and i got my kitten beat, like literally my health went down to 18000 and my armor was shot. After that it just became tedious rather than exciting. I was playing my engi and although I’m not an expert, I wouldn’t say I’m complete kitten either. If they want to underline how threatening the dragon is, they should do it by story not long times battling and breaking all my armour. A good game, or story should be able to be soloable without being frustating or time-consuming but I guess that’s just my opinion on it. Besides the story quests being put at a too difficult level, solo wise, the only other probable reason would be that engis got nerfed or my toon’s not kitted up properly.

don’t you think it i kind of epic that you fought so hard that you’re just in bikini or speedos at the end of the battle? these speedos are not damaged at all and there’s not a single cut or bruise on the skin.:)
And the story is soloable even by a casual like me.
it was frustrating until I figuered out that some weapons don’t work so well for the shadow, but then it was actually cool.

I guess it sounds a bit cool, but I’m starting to think the story’s just super bugged. I was doing the Aspect Masters one, and the mordrem terragriff stopped taking damage at around 25% health for like 15 minutes. There’s no mentions of this on the wiki. Also what weapons would you say don’t work for the shadow of the dragon one? I was using my usual build which is bomb kit, flamethrower kit and a supply crate. Besides dungeons, those usually work great for solo stuff for me. :/

I rolled a PU Mesmer for the LS2 stories since ep2. Stealth help a lot. If your profession do not have stealth ability, you could buy consumable spy kits from a few open world vendors.

This seems like a pretty easy solution.
1. Add me to friends list.
2. Message me when I get on.
3. I’ll help you with p-story
:) all are welcome

The hardest part of LS2 was the political dinner at the start of Dragon’s Reach episode 2 where you talk to politicians to figure out who is spreading lies (or, rather, who is the biggest liar). With all due respect to those who follow the lore and take it seriously, this was the most tedious experience in the game. Couldn’t someone else handle the politics, like Treehearne? I’m just a grunt who kills dragons and other beasties, a blunt instrument if you will.

The game doesn’t throw you out of the instance, you don’t even have to begin the boss fight from new, he keeps his HP, this is extremely generous.

You know what I though when I was young and I couldn’t beat the game? I suck, I am bad, I have to become better, so I sit it through and tried until I beat it! It was never the game.

Today people always think everything around them has to adapt to them. This is an ego-centric view and the worst part is, it is even supported – may it be the industry, the politics etc. (No offense: we are all ego-centric to a certain extent.)

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

With all due respect to those who follow the lore and take it seriously, this was the most tedious experience in the game. Couldn’t someone else handle the politics, like Treehearne? I’m just a grunt who kills dragons and other beasties, a blunt instrument if you will.

The irony of this statement is hilarious to me.

Constantly people complain about how Trahearne shouldn’t be Marshal, the PC should…

Yet one of the most boring parts of Season 2 – the attending boring parties and setting up formal meetings – is exactly what the PC would constantly be doing as Pact Marshal.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

With all due respect to those who follow the lore and take it seriously, this was the most tedious experience in the game. Couldn’t someone else handle the politics, like Treehearne? I’m just a grunt who kills dragons and other beasties, a blunt instrument if you will.

The irony of this statement is hilarious to me.

Constantly people complain about how Trahearne shouldn’t be Marshal, the PC should…

Yet one of the most boring parts of Season 2 – the attending boring parties and setting up formal meetings – is exactly what the PC would constantly be doing as Pact Marshal.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I never wanted to be Pact Marshal. I didn’t even run for the post. I think Trahearne and co secretly voted me into the position as a scape-goat in case it all goes wrong.

Taygus.4571:

anyone else find that the LS is too hard? ..I don’t mind the achievements being hard, I can live without the ap, but it’s pretty frustrating to not be able to complete an episode or if it to take so long that it becomes boring.

the chapt 8, dragon boss, I can not beat. I don’t have a bunch of people I can team up with…..and even if I did..it shouldn;t “require” that.

anyway,,,what I am wondering, is not whether people like the encounter or didn’t find it challenging, I’m wondering if there others who felt it’s too hard…that anet has starting to push to offering “challenging” encounters for those asking for it, but isn’t thinking about those who haven’t.

Again, I’m ok with the achieves being challenging…but the first run through shouldn’t be.

The current Living Story Season 2 has been nerfed severely since 2014. However, if you would like some help with a particular mission…feel free to message me.

I’m finding Dodgy Crowd infuriating for the simple fact there is no restart node like in the Glint realm level. I’ve tried practically every combination of consumables and have extensively followed Dulfy’s guides, but this is virtually impossible for me. And this is coming from someone who has mastered Hotline Miami and its sequel.

This is impressive, I think LS is so easy it gets a little boring, I guess there are all kinds of players. Anet can’t please everyone.

People like the OP are the reason we get epic “spam 1 button” endings like Zhaitan.

Seriously, you ruin any challenge we get in video games.

Taygus.4571:

the chapt 8, dragon boss, I can not beat. I don’t have a bunch of people I can team up with…..and even if I did..it shouldn;t “require” that.

…why?

Why should they automatically be soloable?

Dungeons aren’t really and they have story …

Its an MMO learn to group with others or play single player games. Sorry if that comes out harsh.

I play GW mainly for the story like you, but I did enjoy having a bit more of a challenge in LS2. Killing a “dangerous” creature in two blows is a bit of a let-down. It’s fun to think a bit and I was glad to have the chance to use my complete set of skills and even a couple of repair canisters that took too much of my inventory space. But I do agree, the dragon was a bit over the top. I ended up being more stressed after I beat it than relaxed as I should have been after playing a game. I know how to dodge, but sometimes, it felt there was nowhere to go. And the shadowy creature extinguishing the fire almost made me rage quit: as if the dragon stomping all over the place, the stupid shiny light dropped in random places and the exploding flowers weren’t enough already!

So, I say bosses should be 75 % of what they are right now in terms of difficulty and take half the time to kill or it gets repetitive and annoying. There should be check points in the middle of big battles as well… in case your connection fails or you just need to take a break.

When I finished killing the dragon, I felt happy… but exhausted. A guy wanted to group up and I encouraged him to solo it, I couldn’t bear doing it a second time. But he had already failed three times. So, you’re not alone. Yet, once you finish it, you’ll look back and laugh at the thing.

Did you know the dragon won’t attack you while you were under sheath? And you can teleport to avoid the mines. If your class lacks both abilities, there are consumable in the open world you can buy to access those skills.

Mightybird.6034:

Taygus.4571:

the chapt 8, dragon boss, I can not beat. I don’t have a bunch of people I can team up with…..and even if I did..it shouldn;t “require” that.

…why?

Why should they automatically be soloable?

Dungeons aren’t really and they have story …

Its an MMO learn to group with others or play single player games. Sorry if that comes out harsh.

Harsh is fine, but, aside from presenting a false dichotomy, that’s straying into the “if you don’t like this country, you can leave” territory, and nobody wants to go down that road.

I’m willing to help anyone on eu who needs help with a certain living world fight. However, this is not to hard.

I’ve found most of LS season 2 to be fair. One part did irk me, though, which was the fight with the dragon on top of the pale tree. The problem I had was the actual attack range was outside of the red circles/areas for many of the attacks, so I would be standing in a spot that was displayed as safe, only to take a load of damage.

There is that one particular food buff that increases your stamina regeneration and thus allows you to dodge more often. I found that came very handy doing some of the more difficult achievements (at least for me) that involved not getting hit by rocks or other objects.