Main Gw2 story (LW) based on raid story
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I’m not saying that story cannot be told through 10 player content – I’m saying that, if it is, that content has to be designed in a way that is open and accessible to players regardless of their playstyle, builds, gear, etc – and it most definitely was not in this case.
Funny how no one ever said the same about dungeons.
Maybe it was because they, unlike raids, were accessible.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
One factor is possibly that until we started getting the Current Events, the raids were the only source of new story tidbits. Yes, dungeons are far more accessible than raids (and I have had guildies that hated even dungeon levels of difficulty), but when we began dungeons were one small part of a mosaic of dynamic events, random NPC chatter, and Personal Story, along with occasional blogs and dev lore posts. Other than TA Aether, the information in dungeons never changed and one could collect lore from many places so missing out on a dungeon or two didn’t seem so much of a much.
When players become desperate for tiny scraps of new information, seeing that some of those scraps are locked behind a skill and organizational wall can rouse their ire far more than if they had other distractions.
I’m not saying that story cannot be told through 10 player content – I’m saying that, if it is, that content has to be designed in a way that is open and accessible to players regardless of their playstyle, builds, gear, etc – and it most definitely was not in this case.
Funny how no one ever said the same about dungeons.
Maybe it was because they, unlike raids, were accessible.
As the outcry over Arah story mode showed, many people did not think so. And yet they only complained about that one dungeon, not about dungeons in general.
I’ve complained about dungeons. Not because they were hard but because they were rubbish.
I’ve complained about dungeons. Not because they were hard but because they were rubbish.
Were Dungeons ever hard?
I’m not saying that story cannot be told through 10 player content – I’m saying that, if it is, that content has to be designed in a way that is open and accessible to players regardless of their playstyle, builds, gear, etc – and it most definitely was not in this case.
Funny how no one ever said the same about dungeons.
Maybe it was because they, unlike raids, were accessible.
As the outcry over Arah story mode showed, many people did not think so. And yet they only complained about that one dungeon, not about dungeons in general.
People complained about Arah because it was a jarring transition between the soloable story steps directly into the dungeon – which appeared on the screen to be the next soloable story step (thus the change to make that instance soloable now).
The big difference between dungeons and raids is that dungeons did not require people to change the way they play, the way the gear their character or their builds to better ensure success. This is mainly because of the lack of artificial difficulty mechanics like enrage timers and because it is easier to get 5 people than it is to get 10 (but only because of those points).
While there were some difficult points in dungeons, they were surmountable by the average and even less skilled playerbases. As long as artificial barriers that require (or strongly encourage) changing how you play remain in raids, there will always be an accessibility issue.
Placing the (probable) introduction of the LS3 antagonist and primary story conflict in content of that type does mean that you leave a lot of players out of an important (yes important) part of the narrative (and yes, if they are playing a video game, they are right in expecting to actually experience – not just read about – that narrative).
Anet fumbled the ball on this one – which can probably be explained away as experimentation with the new storytelling tools they have – but there will be no excuse for it in the future.
Ideally, raids need to be accessible – in one form or another – to larger groups of players – making this a non-issue.
Thanks for not being lazy like me and actually finding the correct quotes.
But indeed, this is a rather asinine move. That’s like playing a game on easy or normal difficulty and the game suddenly telling you that unless you play on hardcore or insane difficulties, some story parts will be censored for you. Or more analogous: playing Uncharted with the game telling you halfway through: “We’ll now skip chapters 15-17 and only give you a brief summary of what’s happened in them. If you want to experience it for yourself, complete the first act of Dark Souls.”
It’s stupid, it’s unfair, it penalises players that are not “hardcore enough” (and many even have the skill for raids, but can be kitten d to spend half a day looking for nine other people) and it drives away another segment of your playerbase.
Between PVP people being annoyed, WvW people being annoyed, that’s quite a dangerous thing for the game’s future to do.
All story related content in raids will be covered in the LS in some form.
If it’s like the whole scarlet video and the start of season 2 where they bang on about something that happened that you can not experience for your self, then that will not be good enough. I don’t raid simply because I do not have the time. I also do not play during peak hours so even why I have time, finding a group takes up most of my game time, and I end up leaving the group because I know I will not have the time to do the raid, and that’s not fair on the other players.
Now I am looking forward to see what LS3 will be, and I’m interested in how the raid will figure into the story if at all.
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Funny how no one ever said the same about dungeons. Why are Raids any different?
Because most people don’t have nine friends that all happen to play Guild Wars 2, have schedules that align, and all happen to play exactly what is required to complete them.
Dungeons and Living Story achievements you can solo, and even the less able players can duo the story modes, and if you mess up on the way, there’s no one that’s inconvenienced but yourself, so, like in the souls series, you can quite happily try over and over until you do get it, or leave and come back whenever you do feel like trying again with minimal issues.
With raids, every time you end up getting it wrong, you don’t just mess it up for yourself, but for everyone involved. Additionally, due to the fact that raids require such a large group, you can’t just learn the encounters by experiencing them, they force the worst form of storytelling ever. Reading a synopsis first, and then experiencing them once you already know what’s going to happen.
Watching the most recent trailer – and the Wooden Potatoes analysis – really drives home the opportunity they lost with the raid.
If it had accessible to a wider group of players, the content drought would not have felt as severe as it did. They could have advanced the story (however slightly) while giving all PVE players something new to do.
Even if they “let” players into the raid instance with the next story next week, they dropped the ball in a big way with this. It was (pretty much now confirmed) the introduction to the conflict with the White Mantle – an introduction they reserved for a small percentage of players.
Again, I think it was just a misstep as they experiment with what raiding should be, but now that it’s happened, it should never happen again. Lessens learned, hopefully.
Horrible missed opportunity – and, again, good story, but bad storytelling.
Watching the most recent trailer – and the Wooden Potatoes analysis – really drives home the opportunity they lost with the raid.
If it had accessible to a wider group of players, the content drought would not have felt as severe as it did. They could have advanced the story (however slightly) while giving all PVE players something new to do.
Even if they “let” players into the raid instance with the next story next week, they dropped the ball in a big way with this. It was (pretty much now confirmed) the introduction to the conflict with the White Mantle – an introduction they reserved for a small percentage of players.
Again, I think it was just a misstep as they experiment with what raiding should be, but now that it’s happened, it should never happen again. Lessens learned, hopefully.
Horrible missed opportunity – and, again, good story, but bad storytelling.
I think the most recent trailer for S3 dispels any notion that raids were not a significant part of the next story arc (the introduction, in fact).
Hold that judgment until you play the episode.
Watching the most recent trailer – and the Wooden Potatoes analysis – really drives home the opportunity they lost with the raid.
If it had accessible to a wider group of players, the content drought would not have felt as severe as it did. They could have advanced the story (however slightly) while giving all PVE players something new to do.
Even if they “let” players into the raid instance with the next story next week, they dropped the ball in a big way with this. It was (pretty much now confirmed) the introduction to the conflict with the White Mantle – an introduction they reserved for a small percentage of players.
Again, I think it was just a misstep as they experiment with what raiding should be, but now that it’s happened, it should never happen again. Lessens learned, hopefully.
Horrible missed opportunity – and, again, good story, but bad storytelling.
I think the most recent trailer for S3 dispels any notion that raids were not a significant part of the next story arc (the introduction, in fact).
Hold that judgment until you play the episode.
And, as I replied in that thread, that is fine. Let’s revisit this topic after next Tuesday.
But, after seeing the trailer, it would be very strange if the next living story didn’t center – at least partially – on the conflict with the White Mantle and the discovery of the bloodstone. If that turns out to be true, then the story was most definitely introduced in the raid (which, regardless of the amount of content, is a big deal), which is what I have a problem with. Even if they let people single player through all of the current raid fights/encounters, it doesn’t change the fact that the story arc was made available to a very limited percentage of the population months prior.
But, again, let’s wait and see.
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