Guild Wars 2

ArenaNet and the Guild Wars 2 team have gone a long way to provide strong story and dialog to hint at homosexual love in the game and that is all fine and dandy, I won’t hate on girl on girl love. However I cannot help but notice that there is a lack of heterosexual relationships in the game, correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the only man and woman relationship in the story is Logan and Queen Jennah. This post is to gather support for a strong male NPC to come in the near future that could potentially become a love interest for an NPC of the opposite sex. Thank you for reading and thank you again if you agree.

P.S. by strong I don’t mean ugly as busted rocks, I mean clean, eloquent, well behaved and good looking. Someone that has the prestige of Thackeray, but more of a loner, not so eager to be the Queen’s lapdog if you know what I mean.

There were definitely heterosexual relationships in the personal stories. A couple I can think of off the top of my head. In any event, I’m not even sure why it matters.

Actually, we have enough female partnerships, but not enough male ones. Where’s the Logan X Rytlock Living Story???

Aren’t you forgetting about Bloomanoo and Peneloopee?

Nage.1520:

There were definitely heterosexual relationships in the personal stories. A couple I can think of off the top of my head. In any event, I’m not even sure why it matters.

I think it matters b/c its something I’d like to see in the main story. Personal story is nice and all, if you picked the options to actually see the side characters who were in a relationship. But living story is the main event and it needs a good romance. And I’d personally like to have a strong, heterosexual one in the mix.

Either that, or there should be some actual story and development of Logan/Jennah soon. Logan seems a very unequal partner in that pair, while Jennah seems very cold and distant to him in what few interactions we’ve actually seen. And she’s voiced by Commander Shepard, so I know she is more than capable of sounding anything but cold. It’s the writing.

I also think Canach might have the potential to be an interesting story once he gets more focus. Nothing like a good redemption story. And a good redemption story is usually well aided by a good romance.

Braham/Rox could also be cute, imo, though both of them seem a bit done with romance at this point, for their own reasons.

I also half-jokingly think Evon and Ellen could be interesting, though compatibility and potential would really depend on how 2 dimensional ANET wants to keep those two or whether we’ll get some actual character development. I think we’ll see results on that question with how this arc plays out.

Zaxares.5419:

Aren’t you forgetting about Bloomanoo and Peneloopee?

I vote for letting Peneloopee deal the final blow to Scarlet. When you are so bad that a quaggan vehemently wishes you dead, you deserve to have that quaggan take you down. lol

I’m sorry that you feel like heterosexual relationships are not being represented in game, you must be so overwhelmed by the massively over-representation of heterosexual couples in game that you have become blind to it. Wouldn’t it be nice if homosexual couples got that equal treatment?

There have been two same-sex couples in the major plot of the game, one successful (so far), one not. There have been two heterosexual couples within the main plot of the game, only one of which seemed to have any real impact/spotlight (Logan/Jennah). But even with that spotlight, the romance itself isn’t played with beyond being Logan’s motivation to do his duty, so I’m not even sure if I’d call it a successful romance or just a bit of background that may never really get any true import.

Caithe and Faolain mattered, Marjory and Kasmeer keeps being brought up and focused on and is likely to matter in future updates. None of the heterosexual ones (Logan/Jennah or Braham/Ottila) have mattered as much as either of those pairings within the story of the game.

Straight sexuality needs some love in this game, imo.

I’m all for equality. Neither type of relationship should receive prominence over the other. That being said we have gender considerations to make to. Female x Female relationships are not the same as Male x Male relationships – of which there is only really one in the game. I think most of the issues facing the lack, or percieved lack, of hetero relationships in game comes from the way Jory and Kasmeer’s relationship has been handled. Don’t get me wrong, I love them both – but their relationship has ended up eclipsing the plot somewhat and drawing away from actual story developing.

there simply are no interesting male characters, they’re all flawed, horribly flawed even Braham has mommy issues.

Dresdoe.7503:

correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the only man and woman relationship in the story is Logan and Queen Jennah.

It’s one of the more prominent but even then its a sad excuse for a relationship…

Jennah: You shall be my champion Logan Thackeray. If I should ever need you, you will know and will come to my aid.
Logan: Yes my queen! I will abandon all I love for you. You are my one true love! I would move the heavens themselves (and ditch my friends to die…) if it would only give me a minute to see you!
Anise: Glares at Logan while summoning Rytlock illusions
Jennah: Eh… that’s okay… I just want a personal pet and you fit the bill. Now, sit boy. Cue Mortal Kombat “Finish Him Guy” “FRIENDZONED!”
Anise: Rubs hands together evilly while laughing at Logan and making the Rytlock illusions laugh too “Take that you whiny kitten!”
Logan: Cries

Sorry that was SOOO off topic! Yes but there are many hetero relationships in game even more so then the homosexual relationships even though they are at the moment more prominent. CaitheXFaolain and KasmeerXMarjory being the two that are commonly mentioned though it seems as if CaitheXScarlet/Ceara may have been a thing?

Logan and Jennah are not the only hetero relationship. There are tons of those in game. See this post for a complete list, but I bet there is even more:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Another-lesbian-relationship/page/8#post3611013

Reposting in 3, 2, 1… My question is, could norns and asura mate? In general, could other races mate with each other? What if the skritt are actually the holy union of a charr and an asura? If Rox and Braham mate, would they produce a kodan? What about a human and a sylvari, would it produce a burrito?

Rox and Braham please. They seem like they can be good together.

Steel Fenrir.2791:

Reposting in 3, 2, 1… My question is, could norns and asura mate? In general, could other races mate with each other? What if the skritt are actually the holy union of a charr and an asura? If Rox and Braham mate, would they produce a kodan? What about a human and a sylvari, would it produce a burrito?

I’ll take your post seriously.

Yes, members of any of the GW2 races can (and do) mate with each other, but the devs have stated that such unions would never result in children.

Zaxares.5419:

Steel Fenrir.2791:

Reposting in 3, 2, 1… My question is, could norns and asura mate? In general, could other races mate with each other? What if the skritt are actually the holy union of a charr and an asura? If Rox and Braham mate, would they produce a kodan? What about a human and a sylvari, would it produce a burrito?

I’ll take your post seriously.

Yes, members of any of the GW2 races can (and do) mate with each other, but the devs have stated that such unions would never result in children.

They aren’t races they are species, races are factions of the same species. Of course any 2 species can have sex but only things of the same species (or 2 very early on in an evolutionary split) can have sex lead to offspring.

I have a question, why the hell does it matter either way? Would Jory or Kas being male change the story in any way?

Coulter.2315:

Zaxares.5419:

Steel Fenrir.2791:

Reposting in 3, 2, 1… My question is, could norns and asura mate? In general, could other races mate with each other? What if the skritt are actually the holy union of a charr and an asura? If Rox and Braham mate, would they produce a kodan? What about a human and a sylvari, would it produce a burrito?

I’ll take your post seriously.

Yes, members of any of the GW2 races can (and do) mate with each other, but the devs have stated that such unions would never result in children.

They aren’t races they are species, races are factions of the same species. Of course any 2 species can have sex but only things of the same species (or 2 very early on in an evolutionary split) can have sex lead to offspring.

Actually the use of the word race in separating humans, Sylvari, norn etc. is correct. The scientific definition of race refers to the separation of species as they are distinct from one another, e.g. the human race, the race of tigers etc. Species is of course also correct and ideally would be used since it’s a more definite term – but race is also correct. The way the word race is commonly used in society however, as a distinguisher between ethnicities or physical differences in humans, is incorrect.

It would be nice to see some balance in the game. At the moment it feels like Anet are on some female same sex relationship agenda.

I applauded the use of it with Caithe and Faolain. I think it really helped strengthen the whole TA story. Maj/Kas just seems so forced.

Templar.3418:

I bet Blizzard could do it easily…They’ve got some awesome writers over there.

Can’t breathe… to much laughing…

Please let Veteran Potential Mate consumate his love.

Dresdoe.7503:

correct me if I’m wrong,

Your wrong. So. Very. Wrong. That’s heteronormativity for you though. Ton’s of hetero relationships, two homosexual ones, and suddenly people act weirded out.

Anyway for hetero couples in game (I’m excluding the books, because spoilers):

Logan and Jennah
Bloomaloo and Penalopee the Quaggan’s
Rox and her dead mate
Morrigu and Leurent from the Twilight arbour
Tiachren and Ysvelta from the Sylvari personal story
Ton the Asura and his wife Ceera from the personal story
Elli and Zott, asura’s from the personal story
The married sailor couple from the personal story that Ellie and Zott are in
It’s implied vaguely that Gixx, a priory Asura has a crush on Maeva, the Asuran women with the shielded house from the personal story
A high ranking Whispers member mentions his dead wife (darned if I can recall his name though. He acts as the Whispers representative to the Pact most/all of the time.)
Tckik and Kitaka. Skrit from the Skrit personal story segment
Gairwen from the Green Knight Sylvari PS and her dead lover whom Bercilak killed, and for that matter Bercilak who killed him because he was interested in her

Right off the top of my head. Need I go on?

Of course that doesn’t even start to take into account, say, folk like Lord Faren, who frequently make their interest in the opposite sex known without being part of a couple. (Not that that make’s them heterosexual by itself. Why hello there bi/pansexuality, but you know what I mean.) It also doesn’t account for all the ambient dialogue and / or quests and events of NPC’s around the world, or smaller comments and actions that fall into a grey area. There’s absolute loads of that, so much it isn’t worth mentioning. Seriously, just wander around Holebrek for about two seconds and listen to what the NPC’s are chatting about.

Hmm, I’m stating to wonder if this was even worth replying too. How the HECK does one even START to think there’s a lack of heterosexuality about?

Seriously, its TWO major couples. We don’t even HAVE an visible important queer dude yet. (Hey, Anet, you guys listening? If so, firstly, awesome company, inclusion matters and you guy’s rock! Secondly, no really, can we please?) I wish we could all stop claiming the worlds outta whack when ever reality come’s along, and there are gasp actual queer people being shown. Even in still small numbers. ‘Course I’m not just talking about you specifically OP. Or even this fandom specifically. It’s a societal issue, not specif to GW fandom obviously. Doesn’t mean I’m not going to try and call out this silliness when it comes up.

If there aren’t any, then where did all these kids we’re rescuing come from?

I think the problem is the lack of interesting male characters, not heterosexual relationships.

4/5 of the Biconics, the main LS villain, her second-in-command, Lion’s Arch’s most important authority? ALL female.

Add a few more important males and – voila! Surely we’ll have more hetero romance.

Imperios.2543:

I think the problem is the lack of interesting male characters, not heterosexual relationships.

4/5 of the Biconics, the main LS villain, her second-in-command, Lion’s Arch’s most important authority? ALL female.

So? The world has plenty of interesting male characters.

To name a few:
Rytlock, Braham, Logan, Magnus, Evon, Tobias, Trahearne, Snaff, Canach, Malomedies, Malyck… All of which are interesting characters in their own way, even if you do not like them.

I am talking about LS.

Imperios.2543:

I am talking about LS.

So? I am talking about guild wars 2.

Not every story told within has to have token archetypes, does it?

The quaggans refugees from kessex who currently live in vigil keep camp are an heterosexual couple.

Theres an asura couple in the PS that are married. Tonn and Ceera. You also have two members of your krewe if you choose either dynamics or statics in the asura PS at the beginning.

Templar.3418:

What if they killed Jory off and Kas eventually found herself some male? That’d be awesome to me. Needs to be a strong mysterious character though, perhaps somewhat generic but if they twist it in the right way he could be awesome.

I hope Jennah leave Logan and he then ends up with Lord Faren. They marry and adopt all the children from the burned orphanage.

We’ve had hundreds of years of hetereosexual pairings prominently featured in literature, and decades of the same featured in radio, film and television. The fact that we have a few(!) gay and lesbian pairings in this game should be a source of praise, not complaint.

Even if the homosexual pairings are getting a bit more attention than the heterosexual ones, I don’t see what the big deal is. Let gay people have their time in the spotlight for once. Love is love wherever it can be found.

Underdark.3726:

Templar.3418:

What if they killed Jory off and Kas eventually found herself some male? That’d be awesome to me. Needs to be a strong mysterious character though, perhaps somewhat generic but if they twist it in the right way he could be awesome.

I hope Jennah leave Logan and he then ends up with Lord Faren. They marry and adopt all the children from the burned orphanage.

Oh my god. Someone please, make it so <3

For those demanding Living Story representation, Jennah and Logan were present in the living story. Oswald Thorn’s wives and brother are mentioned. Levvi and Blingg were broken up in the Lost Shores. Eir’s relationship with Borje was part of Flame and Frost resulting in Braham’s introduction. Rox’s relationship with her mate was quite prominent recently.

Those are just a handful. I could find easily.

I’m actually surprised there aren’t more same sex pairings in the game. Upon first reading on Sylvari I honestly thought we’d see such couples all over the game guess I was wrong o.O

CharrGirl.7896:

I’m actually surprised there aren’t more same sex pairings in the game. Upon first reading on Sylvari I honestly thought we’d see such couples all over the game guess I was wrong o.O

It’s probably because they knew threads like this would pop if there was even one same sex relationship, so they decided to ease into……………course, that didn’t stop someone in beta weekend when Sylvari were introduced from kittening about how the Green Knight story “threw the homosexual agenda in their face”.

I can pardon Anet for having very little faith in the maturity of some of their playerbase.

That being said, when people toss around the gay agenda I am shocked about how none of them mention Sieran, I can’t be the only one who picked up on subtle hints she had a thing for the player character, regardless of gender.

Somehow I feel that this game is full of homosexual NPCs, and the design of most of items also supporting this point of view…
Not like I care about relationships of these not living creatures… Or else.

And then there cames those guild recruitments from & for these users…
We shouldn’t care as long as their behavior isn’t really offensive!

Imperios.2543:

I think the problem is the lack of interesting male characters, not heterosexual relationships.

4/5 of the Biconics, the main LS villain, her second-in-command, Lion’s Arch’s most important authority? ALL female.

Add a few more important males and – voila! Surely we’ll have more hetero romance.

I LOVE that there are so many strong, capable, intelligent female characters.

As another poster pointed out, there are a lot of males in game already. I don’t see that as the determining factor in how relationships are created.

brittitude.1983:

Imperios.2543:

I think the problem is the lack of interesting male characters, not heterosexual relationships.

4/5 of the Biconics, the main LS villain, her second-in-command, Lion’s Arch’s most important authority? ALL female.

Add a few more important males and – voila! Surely we’ll have more hetero romance.

I LOVE that there are so many strong, capable, intelligent female characters.

As another poster pointed out, there are a lot of males in game already. I don’t see that as the determining factor in how relationships are created.

I take it even further I stopped caring about gender all together in this game.

When I see a good character a gender is a secondary trait that I notice afterwards. Trust me, not many movies or games can pull that off. I congratulate Anet for making it so gender neutral in many ways.

If there was a ratio of 3:1 male-female characters such threads wouldn’t even exist because you’re used to seeing this to this in almost every form of media.

Celestina.2894:

That being said, when people toss around the gay agenda I am shocked about how none of them mention Sieran, I can’t be the only one who picked up on subtle hints she had a thing for the player character, regardless of gender.

You’r absolutely right and it creeped my out so so much. My Sylvari felt personally victimised by Sieran’s strong advancements. He did not reciprocate her feelings and she did not stop. It was horrible. I was happy when she died (not actually, despite her overt attachment to my Sylvari I still appreciated her character and the depth of emotion that had gone into her character), I feel bad about that, but it’s true.

Theres that couple in the Ascalon Settlement in Gendarrin Fields that have the same conversation every few minutes and then go off to complete each others maps…

Nesukia.7561:

Your wrong. So. Very. Wrong. That’s heteronormativity for you though. Ton’s of hetero relationships, two homosexual ones, and suddenly people act weirded out.

This, in a nutshell.

You can have a whole form of media (video games, fantasy, myth, etc) essentially dominated by patriarchy and heterosexuality and when a rare case of homosexuality or female dominance appears, there’s suddenly an ironic cry for “balance” or “fairness”.

Hetero pairings in society, myth, video games, et al, are not an oppressed, under-represented group that needs special affirmative action. There are a million stories and games out there with stereotypical male leads and hetero romances; it’s fine to let female heroes and homosexuals get a spotlight once in awhile.

The “I need a male hero to identify with” claim is clearly a dubiously veiled expression of ethnocentrism and androcentrism as well. There are plenty movies, games and other media where the lead is an alien, fantasy race or anthropomorphic animal and people seem to enjoy these stories without a human to identify with yet someone claims they need a “male” to make a story engaging? If Finding Nemo can be a hugely popular movie where the lead is a fish, no one should have a problem with a female human or a homosexual as a protagonist.

Lets not get out of hand here, shouting at someone for views that are just based on ignorance (I don’t mean ignorant in a put down way I just mean you don’t understand how silly “What if they killed Jory off and Kas eventually found herself some male?” sounds) will cause them to tighten up and defend those positions more.

Having same sex couples in popular culture is an important way to get integrated into society as a whole, introduces it as a perfectly normal thing to kids so we have a newer generation growing up with less prejudice or feelings of isolation than the last (which is good for everyone).

Not only that but he doesn’t care if the new character is generic, as long as it’s a guy. I find that laughable because people already complain that there aren’t enough interesting male characters in the current LS but somehow this would be “ok”. I fail to see how that would be an improvement over Marjory lol.

Celestina.2894:

That being said, when people toss around the gay agenda I am shocked about how none of them mention Sieran, I can’t be the only one who picked up on subtle hints she had a thing for the player character, regardless of gender.

Same with Countess Anise in the human storyline; maybe not a “thing”, but openly flirtatious at any rate.

Dresdoe.7503:

there simply are no interesting male characters, they’re all flawed, horribly flawed even Braham has mommy issues.

OMG! He DOES have mommy issues!! Which can only mean, he isn’t upset that Rox is going to leave because he’s in love with her, he’s upset because he has abandonment issues! I had high hopes for this relationship but now I’m just sad…

Give Braham and Rox time they’ll come around eventually

Forget about all these relationships. The only relation i want to see is my fist relating to Scarlet’s face.

Seriously though, we have enough relationships in the game as is. We have the queen and Logan, we have the 1 female sylvari in the personal story( cant remember their names), and im sure much more I am not aware of. This isnt Love Wars 2 or Relationship wars 2, its Guild wars 2, I dont want to follow a love story I want to fight a Dragon with kitten NPCs not lovie-dovie ones.

Beast Sos.1457:

Forget about all these relationships. The only relation i want to see is my fist relating to Scarlet’s face.

Seriously though, we have enough relationships in the game as is. We have the queen and Logan, we have the 1 female sylvari in the personal story( cant remember their names), and im sure much more I am not aware of. This isnt Love Wars 2 or Relationship wars 2, its Guild wars 2, I dont want to follow a love story I want to fight a Dragon with kitten NPCs not lovie-dovie ones.

Logan and the queen isnt a real example of a relationship. It’s more of a dog and its master. The dog can feel genuine love for it’s master, and the master might care for the dog but the master doesnt actually love the dog in a romantic way.

There are a lot of heterosexual couples in the game. Every third or fourth renown heart NPC I come across has an oppostite sex sweetheart that they mention. Often their love interest is also in close proximity.

That being said, I’d like to see more relationships in the game that are not romantic in their nature. Friends, comrades in arms and even rivals. People do not talk to each other with the sole purpose of getting laid. Throughout our lives we have far more acquitances, friends and enemies than romantic partners. I feel like the world of Tyria does not reflect that.

Alice.8694:

Imperios.2543:

I think the problem is the lack of interesting male characters, not heterosexual relationships.

4/5 of the Biconics, the main LS villain, her second-in-command, Lion’s Arch’s most important authority? ALL female.

So? The world has plenty of interesting male characters.

To name a few:
Rytlock, Braham, Logan, Magnus, Evon, Tobias, Trahearne, Snaff, Canach, Malomedies, Malyck… All of which are interesting characters in their own way, even if you do not like them.

Rytlock, Logan, Trahearne, Snaff… These aren’t living story characters. Cameo appearance maybe, but they don’t count.

Tobias, malomedies, Malyck…. Who?

Braham… The only thing we know about him is that he has mommy issues, so it is a case where his character is underwritten and attached to a female character.

Canach, classic chaotic good villain. Only got a few personal story instances of characterization tho.

Evon, another mostly underwritten character. Didn’t really do anything until this current patch. His voice actor is awesome.

That’s is for interesting male characters. I see that you did not mention major male character fails like Bloody Prince Thorn or Lord Faren.

blakdoxa.7520:

… there’s no reason to bring our real world problems into a fake world.

No story, media or artwork exists in a bubble outside of social constructs. If people create a song, movie, book, etc, including characters interacting in any sort of human fashion, the piece automatically has cultural baggage and real world issues baked in. Even when a world is fictitious, it’s made by people who are the product of a culture and necessarily imbue the world with very real aspects of that culture.

Saying “it doesn’t matter because it’s fake” is to argue that no work of fiction or non-naturalistic art ever produced by mankind actually matters.