Guild Wars 2

During the Vinewraith event, people are using the mortars to get tags on the boss instead of actually participating in the event or using the mortars to defend the carrier or ammo. It’s gotten to the point where people just stand around the mortar taking turns and then wait to run in at the end when the bosses are all dead. They just laugh (and worse) when its suggested that they use the mortar for the event. It’s getting out of hand.

I think this should be changed to make the mortar shots not go into the boss room.

Thanks.

Agreed. The mortars are there for lane defense, not tagging bosses. I saw a couple players yesterday talking about “taking turns on mortar” and I had no idea what they were talking about at the time, thought maybe they both just really liked using mortars and were going to occasionally jump off for one another, but now that you bring this up I realize this is exactly what they were doing.

Seems like an easy fix, just put a solid roof on the room where the bosses spawn. There’s already a ceiling there I believe (I’ve never actually looked up before, but it seems like a cave), but it must just be visual and not an actual world object if the ceiling is there at all.

In the meantime, I think I’ll try to grab those mortars first so I can use them for their intended purpose. Only problem is that I’ll probably get attacked by mobs (as you do when using mortars properly, you attract a lot of agro) and the people waiting to use the mortars for boss tagging will probably just stand there and let me die to get me off.

And what is the intended purpose of mortars if not killing mordrem? You can easily set and turn them around for whatever reason you need them. They are, in my opinion, the most important siege engine to have around.

The mortar can make a huge difference between succeeding at a boss and failing it.
Fiery Incendiary shells can easily deal up to 25.000 dmg per grenade fired and therefore greatly outdmg most players I see attending the event.

Furthermore, mortars are the only siege engine usable to assist in destroying the vinewrath champions once the blockade has been breached.

So you basically want an existing and quite tactical feature removed because players who are actually contributing to the general success of the event gain some more mordrem parts whose only purpose is to be conversed into another currency?

Grogba.6204:

So you basically want an existing and quite tactical feature removed because players who are actually contributing to the general success of the event gain some more mordrem parts whose only purpose is to be conversed into another currency?

If this was all that was happening, it would be fine. But it’s gotten to the point where, and you might know this if you actually read the op, people stand around taking turns on the mortar instead of helping the lane. This means the lane enemies are scaled up in anticipation of players and a mortar who essentially aren’t there, not to mention the instance population space being wasted.

I literally just had someone run from south or mid lane to north lane, aggro an enemy over to me on the mortar (while I was helping the carrier/ammo), have it down me, and get on the mortar instead of ressing me. That is…beyond toxic.

The mortar is causing people to do really kitteny things, weighing down everyone else who wants to do the event properly. Also, the mortar is not remotely necessary to beat any of the champions.

They absolutely are not contributing to the general success of the event, they are leeching.

Grogba.6204:

So you basically want an existing and quite tactical feature removed because players who are actually contributing to the general success of the event gain some more mordrem parts whose only purpose is to be conversed into another currency?

They aren’t using it to contribute to the map or to the fight, they are using it to get tags on the boss. The players I’ve encountered were huddled around the mortar, arguing about getting a turn to tag the boss and doing nothing else to help the event. Obviously they are abusing what may have been put in for tactical purposes, to get some loot reward.

People are berated for trying to adjust the mortar to shoot into the lane or onto the ammo, and when I’ve tried to reason with the person shooting the boss I was told to shut up or just lol’d at. I know many people do events for loot, but at the point where getting loot interferes with the event itself, I think it needs to be looked at by anet.

Best regards

I’ve been lucky enough not to see this. That is, I’ve seen the mortar user aiming it at the Vinewrath, but not seen a queue to do so or people being nasty about it on one side or the other.

I almost always go to North since it usually needs people and I don’t have reflects for mid and south is full up with people. I try to grab the southern mortar there because it is the most fun I can have, with coverage of the lane and the ammo dump, as well as the ability to support the arrow carts and knock off vines menacing the northern mortar.

Sometimes I dodge off it to avoid getting wrecked by hurled rocks or by poison pools, and sometimes someone else leaps on it when I do, but generally I can keep it pointed at north lane mordrem and burn them to slaggy bits. Fun!

I don’t see how the mortar can be that helpful firing at the boss fight, though. It’s not like you can see where your shots land, and the boss moves around so much you can’t even repeat a lucky hit if you see the damage numbers floating (those floater numbers are how I zero in on the mordrem menacing the ammo dump, plus I can track the movement of burning mordrem as they charge up the alley and more accurately bring the mortar to bear). So it really is to get a tag, and I don’t see the point. Don’t folks interested in parts just get the guaranteed extractor and tag a fort boss? If it’s for crests, jeeze. I’ve bought all the stuff the vendors offer, got plenty of keys, and started funding the Camp Resolve event guy just to clear crests out of inventory and I only do a Silverwastes round once or twice a day, if that. Everyone at VW gets rewards when a lane beats a boss, no tagging needed.

Again, it seems pointless to use the mortar as the OP describes.

Donari.5237:

I’ve been lucky enough not to see this. That is, I’ve seen the mortar user aiming it at the Vinewrath, but not seen a queue to do so or people being nasty about it on one side or the other.

I almost always go to North since it usually needs people and I don’t have reflects for mid and south is full up with people. I try to grab the southern mortar there because it is the most fun I can have, with coverage of the lane and the ammo dump, as well as the ability to support the arrow carts and knock off vines menacing the northern mortar.

Sometimes I dodge off it to avoid getting wrecked by hurled rocks or by poison pools, and sometimes someone else leaps on it when I do, but generally I can keep it pointed at north lane mordrem and burn them to slaggy bits. Fun!

I don’t see how the mortar can be that helpful firing at the boss fight, though. It’s not like you can see where your shots land, and the boss moves around so much you can’t even repeat a lucky hit if you see the damage numbers floating (those floater numbers are how I zero in on the mordrem menacing the ammo dump, plus I can track the movement of burning mordrem as they charge up the alley and more accurately bring the mortar to bear). So it really is to get a tag, and I don’t see the point. Don’t folks interested in parts just get the guaranteed extractor and tag a fort boss? If it’s for crests, jeeze. I’ve bought all the stuff the vendors offer, got plenty of keys, and started funding the Camp Resolve event guy just to clear crests out of inventory and I only do a Silverwastes round once or twice a day, if that. Everyone at VW gets rewards when a lane beats a boss, no tagging needed.

Again, it seems pointless to use the mortar as the OP describes.

Actually, I regularly use both mortars at north to hit the bosses. That’s not to say I don’t use them as intended; I still hammer the ammo dump and pepper the lane as needed. But when I see that the lane is well covered (players stealthing/healing the siege, proper use of crowd control, optimal population keeping spawns down), I turn my sights on the boss room. It may not seem like much, but on troll and thrasher, where the bosses tend to stay around mid, 2.5K+ per second, plus burn duration, definitely helps when I can’t be present for the boss battle itself.

Note, that I did not start this with loot credit in mind. My entire thought process was “mid says they’re suffering… I wonder if I can reach with this mortar?”. I’ve seen the lines form and get really nasty. I’ve received rude, nasty, and downright report-worthy whispers when I refuse to “let next in line get a turn” in favor of keeping the heat on the boss from someone that’s not going to change proven aim. And all over one champ bag. It’s insane. I’m not “denying someone loot”; I’m ensuring the boss is taking extra damage.

Now, that’s a worthy way to do it.

But I don’t think they even get an extra champ bag, right? If I’m at North and South beats up the Beekeeper, I get a reward popup. I don’t have to tag the Beekeeper myself. So the only “personal” extra would seem to be the mordrem part, which as I said above seems of such minimal value as to give no incentive at all to wanting to tag the boss rather than help the lane one’s in.

The only Mortar ive seen doing this is the one at north gate, but in saying that given the locations of the 2 Mortars at north I think this was an intended design as they are nearly beyond useless where they are sitting, they should have removed them both and added Arrow Carts in there for defense instead.

Ok I Did It.2854:

The only Mortar ive seen doing this is the one at north gate, but in saying that given the locations of the 2 Mortars at north I think this was an intended design as they are nearly beyond useless where they are sitting, they should have removed them both and added Arrow Carts in there for defense instead.

If you think the north mortars are placed in such a way that they’re “useless” you don’t know how to use mortars. The north mortars have the best placement of any of the mortars, IMO.

You can hit the entire “lane” minus the very bottom from the north mortars (and the arrow carts cover the bottom / ammo stack, so that’s fine). Enemies are never too close to you that you’ll overshoot them while they’re following siege so you’re able to lay down shots the entire path of the seige, only if the enemies agro you do they ever get too close, unlike say mid where you can’t hit anything directly in front of you because of the elevation and the close proximity to the lane itself. You can also cover the arrow carts in case enemies agro them, and most importantly you have a perfect shot at some of the enemy spawn points, so you can place an incendiary round there and have them burning as they spawn.

South and middle lanes can easily be tagged w/o anything.
But now I stick with middle because people fail way too much on that easy boss.
When I’m there, none of the lane ever failed.
I care more about the end chest (which contains potential 1000g worth of item) than those petty bags, so I choose not to tag multiple bosses, but to ensure victory.

Donari.5237:

Now, that’s a worthy way to do it.

But I don’t think they even get an extra champ bag, right? If I’m at North and South beats up the Beekeeper, I get a reward popup. I don’t have to tag the Beekeeper myself. So the only “personal” extra would seem to be the mordrem part, which as I said above seems of such minimal value as to give no incentive at all to wanting to tag the boss rather than help the lane one’s in.

You do get an extra champ bag and event credit. Shows up as a second bonus chest, then standard XP/Karma pop. Additionally, you get extractor credit. You effectively get full credit as if you participated in the battle.

If done properly, it can be an asset to the entire run. My method, for example, is that I’m a south lane runner. Once beekeeper is melted, I make my way to mid, assist on defense/ammo until wall is breached, then hit north and begin incendiary shelling the thrasher, switching to shelling ammo dump, lane, or arrow carts as needed. Once thrasher goes down, I switch to full lane defense until wall breaches, then keep the heat on dark wing until win. Since I was already tracked from bee, it effectively adds one more body to the battle that couldn’t normally be there, without the worry of said body going down. If I die, which clears tracked, and I can get in to another champ, WOOHOO CHAMP BATTLE and I Leroy straight in so I’m not bashing my brains out holding 2 every 5 seconds.

The problem with the taggers is that they tend to congregate around the mortar, get their tags, become tracked, then AFK the rest of the event. They upscale north, and then complain when north wipes to the very champions they generated, while only ever contributing 2K-6K damage individually. Additionally, they tend to auto-pilot, shelling the EMPTY champ room during defense wave, to ensure they don’t get booted from the mortar for inactivity. All this, for two extra champ bags, tops.

Last night, during a fail run, was the worst I’ve seen. 8-10 people, multiple commanders tagged up, and one of them even shouting line orders “3 shots max, keep the line moving, hug wall when done or report”, while I got regular hate whispers shelling from the back mortar and “refusing to play fair and give them credit”.

Azure Fang.8605:

Donari.5237:

Now, that’s a worthy way to do it.

But I don’t think they even get an extra champ bag, right? If I’m at North and South beats up the Beekeeper, I get a reward popup. I don’t have to tag the Beekeeper myself. So the only “personal” extra would seem to be the mordrem part, which as I said above seems of such minimal value as to give no incentive at all to wanting to tag the boss rather than help the lane one’s in.

You do get an extra champ bag and event credit. Shows up as a second bonus chest, then standard XP/Karma pop. Additionally, you get extractor credit. You effectively get full credit as if you participated in the battle.

If done properly, it can be an asset to the entire run. My method, for example, is that I’m a south lane runner. Once beekeeper is melted, I make my way to mid, assist on defense/ammo until wall is breached, then hit north and begin incendiary shelling the thrasher, switching to shelling ammo dump, lane, or arrow carts as needed. Once thrasher goes down, I switch to full lane defense until wall breaches, then keep the heat on dark wing until win. Since I was already tracked from bee, it effectively adds one more body to the battle that couldn’t normally be there, without the worry of said body going down. If I die, which clears tracked, and I can get in to another champ, WOOHOO CHAMP BATTLE and I Leroy straight in so I’m not bashing my brains out holding 2 every 5 seconds.

The problem with the taggers is that they tend to congregate around the mortar, get their tags, become tracked, then AFK the rest of the event. They upscale north, and then complain when north wipes to the very champions they generated, while only ever contributing 2K-6K damage individually. Additionally, they tend to auto-pilot, shelling the EMPTY champ room during defense wave, to ensure they don’t get booted from the mortar for inactivity. All this, for two extra champ bags, tops.

Last night, during a fail run, was the worst I’ve seen. 8-10 people, multiple commanders tagged up, and one of them even shouting line orders “3 shots max, keep the line moving, hug wall when done or report”, while I got regular hate whispers shelling from the back mortar and “refusing to play fair and give them credit”.

No, the problem is everyone and their mom will all stick at south lane boss for the “maximum reward”, making middle lane boss alot harder thanks to lack of people there. Also you guys scale up the event too.

LOL the mortars can aim into the boss room? Seems an obvious oversight. Though we Still can cheese through Shatterer and Golem Mark II using their hills and box respectively, so I wouldn’t hold your breath on a fix :S

That said, the room closes up after a bit, is it really that effective? And given how far back the mortar is, would it even scale the boss?

Luckly this hasn’t seem too rampant, but I’ll keep an eye out.

Now matter how many events I do, no matter what lane I have done, I have NEVER seen a mortar shell LAND inside.

Yet there are always people trolling the mortars and firing over the wall. Often times I think it is a multi boxer, using 5+ accounts to score participation for the events.

Just came out of a map that failed because of these people in all three lanes. I asked them why they were wasting their time and one of them replied “Because there is no point tagging mobs.”

…
Its not JUST the mortar abusers, but the other “AFK” players who aren’t actually afk at all. they just don’t feel inclined to participate. In the map I was just on, as we were failing, one of them said “Fine, I’ll come help defend the carrier.” and finally got off the mortar.

Of course all the other afk’s left the map because it was failing.

This pretty much kills my enjoyment of the event. Every time.
North especially can have only 10 people, 5 of them wasting time on the mortar while the rest of us can barely keep the carrier alive. South is always loaded with AFK players who instantly come alive when its time to get loot.

Somehow I feel it has gotten even worse in the last few days. Perhaps this thread giving more people ideas?

I finally ran into this last night. I got my favorite north mortar and some norn stood on top of me pleading for a turn so he could tag the boss. When I got chased away from the mortar (which I was using to save our ammunition, lay down fire pools to melt lane mobs, and aid the arrow carts when mobs got on them) others pounced the mortar even if it meant standing in insect swarms and swiveled it around to aim at the boss room.

Fortunately (?) south failed — guess the mortars weren’t adding much to that fight — and I ran down to mid to help there since I didn’t have reflects for thrasher. That lane was so nicely organized it was a dream to defend and we took out the beekeeper with a minute to spare. VW ended up succeeding, hurray!

One champ bag just can’t be worth risking the whole event failing ><

I dont see any issue here. Seems to be smart and skilful use of the mortar.

Malediktus.3740:

I dont see any issue here. Seems to be smart and skilful use of the mortar.

At best an exploit, at worst griefing.

The event is still completeable without the mortars, so the rest just has to work a tiny bit harder

Malediktus.3740:

The event is still completeable without the mortars, so the rest just has to work a tiny bit harder

So you see no problem with the lane defenders having to “work harder” while these people line up taking turns at the mortar so they can get more loot for less effort?

Makes me glad that I’m commanding reasonably competent players and few trolls. Ppl tend to respond, when I’ve been commanding at least, when I’ve asked for them to rain fire on the mobs to defend the lane or when I’ve asked for ppl to reinforce the other lanes.

I hope Anet fixes this so it doesn’t infect the EU maps that I’ve been playing in

I’m about done with vinewrath because of this nonsense. I just posted in another thread about getting the tracked debuff after taking the mortar from these people, which makes me alt+f4 most of the time in disgust. I don’t even want to build siege anymore. They just stand there, waiting for other people to build it, then take it over. And I can’t even take it back without getting tracked. Screw it. I enjoy the content, but it’s not worth the nonsense.

And no, the lanes don’t NEED the mortars. But they’re kitten helpful and meant to be there to help the lanes. You want another champ bag? Go to Orr.

Thanks for the feedback all. It looks as though this is an issue that several players have noticed.

@crawlerxp

This is the part that is irritating to me. If the players were helping out in some way, I could understand using them on the boss. However, from what I’ve seen, the players tend to not contribute to the event in any meaningful way, and instead just huddle around the mortar trying to pick up an extra champ bag.

I know that the event can generally succeed or fail regardless of their mortar shots, but I would A) prefer the mortar to be put toward more productive use and B ) to not reward players for not contributing to an event.

Electro.4173:

Malediktus.3740:

The event is still completeable without the mortars, so the rest just has to work a tiny bit harder

So you see no problem with the lane defenders having to “work harder” while these people line up taking turns at the mortar so they can get more loot for less effort?

So is life. Some people work harder than others and end up with less anyway.

Malediktus.3740:

Electro.4173:

Malediktus.3740:

The event is still completeable without the mortars, so the rest just has to work a tiny bit harder

So you see no problem with the lane defenders having to “work harder” while these people line up taking turns at the mortar so they can get more loot for less effort?

So is life. Some people work harder than others and end up with less anyway.

Please don’t. Just…don’t. Believe it or not, videogames don’t need to reflect real life, and many of us come here to get away from it. Why don’t we also toggle g_saberrealisticcombat, too, and get slaughtered by the masses of mobs we fight?

There are games for real life equivalency. This is not one of them.

P.S. I really, really dislike it when people even attempt to make that non-argument. 9/10 it’s hauled out as some kind of meager justification for some otherwise exploitative behavior that trivializes or pushes a burden on players trying to do things the way the devs designed them to be done. You can’t seriously think some mortars being able to hit that room was intentional?

P.P.S. The other thread on this issue was trashed because of rudeness against ArenaNet. Let’s try not to have that happen here.

Just wanted to update that I did about 4 VW fights today, in every single one of them there were people camping / trading the mortars and just afking on the ledge when the weren’t shooting.

I think this type of thing certainly falls into the realm of griefing, seing that they are upleveling the mobs in the area while trying to get hits on the boss.

crawlerxp.1536:

Malediktus.3740:

Electro.4173:

Malediktus.3740:

The event is still completeable without the mortars, so the rest just has to work a tiny bit harder

So you see no problem with the lane defenders having to “work harder” while these people line up taking turns at the mortar so they can get more loot for less effort?

So is life. Some people work harder than others and end up with less anyway.

Please don’t. Just…don’t. Believe it or not, videogames don’t need to reflect real life, and many of us come here to get away from it. Why don’t we also toggle g_saberrealisticcombat, too, and get slaughtered by the masses of mobs we fight?

There are games for real life equivalency. This is not one of them.

P.S. I really, really dislike it when people even attempt to make that non-argument. 9/10 it’s hauled out as some kind of meager justification for some otherwise exploitative behavior that trivializes or pushes a burden on players trying to do things the way the devs designed them to be done. You can’t seriously think some mortars being able to hit that room was intentional?

P.P.S. The other thread on this issue was trashed because of rudeness against ArenaNet. Let’s try not to have that happen here.

Video game reflexes exactly what a person is like in real life.
Their attitude in video game is very much their true nature in real life. In real life, it is actually way harder to tell a person’s personality because we often fake ourself for the social harmony purposes.

gvaughn.4163:

Just wanted to update that I did about 4 VW fights today, in every single one of them there were people camping / trading the mortars and just afking on the ledge when the weren’t shooting.

I think this type of thing certainly falls into the realm of griefing, seing that they are upleveling the mobs in the area while trying to get hits on the boss.

I’m afraid this and other threads have managed to actually promote the behavior, more than anything. Since it has become much more common very rapidly.

Aomine.5012:

crawlerxp.1536:

Malediktus.3740:

Electro.4173:

Malediktus.3740:

The event is still completeable without the mortars, so the rest just has to work a tiny bit harder

So you see no problem with the lane defenders having to “work harder” while these people line up taking turns at the mortar so they can get more loot for less effort?

So is life. Some people work harder than others and end up with less anyway.

Please don’t. Just…don’t. Believe it or not, videogames don’t need to reflect real life, and many of us come here to get away from it. Why don’t we also toggle g_saberrealisticcombat, too, and get slaughtered by the masses of mobs we fight?

There are games for real life equivalency. This is not one of them.

P.S. I really, really dislike it when people even attempt to make that non-argument. 9/10 it’s hauled out as some kind of meager justification for some otherwise exploitative behavior that trivializes or pushes a burden on players trying to do things the way the devs designed them to be done. You can’t seriously think some mortars being able to hit that room was intentional?

P.P.S. The other thread on this issue was trashed because of rudeness against ArenaNet. Let’s try not to have that happen here.

Video game reflexes exactly what a person is like in real life.
Their attitude in video game is very much their true nature in real life. In real life, it is actually way harder to tell a person’s personality because we often fake ourself for the social harmony purposes.

That…actually doesn’t have anything to do with the point I was making, but all right. This isn’t the right place for that discussion, though. I would gladly carry on a debate about the reflective nature of games and the natures of people in them as related to the reasons why those people play, but that’s something better done in a new thread or through private messages.

As to this thread, I have noticed the ramp up in popularity, which is why I’ve stopped bothering with vinewrath all together. Since Silverwastes was the thing that kept me most interested, I also haven’t played much lately. More PoE than GW2.

Monkey Fritz.9052:

gvaughn.4163:

Just wanted to update that I did about 4 VW fights today, in every single one of them there were people camping / trading the mortars and just afking on the ledge when the weren’t shooting.

I think this type of thing certainly falls into the realm of griefing, seing that they are upleveling the mobs in the area while trying to get hits on the boss.

I’m afraid this and other threads have managed to actually promote the behavior, more than anything. Since it has become much more common very rapidly.

I made the thread after seeing players do this for several days. I think threads like this may draw attention to it, but I think players doing it in the zone and word-of-mouth contribute more. Beyond filling out a ticket, reporting and a forum thread, I don’t know what else can be done.

I still think VW is a fun and worthwhile encounter, but the amount of people afking and misusing the mortars is discouraging.

I just tried Vinewrath again. Almost literally every mortar. In every lane. When I pointed out that people were complaining about it on the forums, most of the people doing it didn’t know they could get other players tracked. Some of them didn’t even know they could get tracked themselves.

They don’t even get to help with the bosses at that point. They just sit there doing next to no damage to a boss, don’t help the lane, don’t actually fight a boss, and get not only the end chest, but extra mordrem parts. It’s really…discouraging.

Or maybe we should just all do it. I mean, heck, right? Maybe all the events fail and nobody gets the big chest, but we could farm a ton of mordrem parts before the carriers all die. Since nobody’s given any official word on this, I’ve got to think it’s a non-issue, which is basically a tacit go-ahead. Right?

I kind of hope people do. For now, I’m done with Silverwastes. I love the zone and almost all the encounters, but this whole thing just puts a bad taste in my mouth. And it’s only getting worse.