Guild Wars 2

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Leah Hoyer.9382:

Thank you for all the comments and thoughts, everyone. I really appreciate the warm welcome and your feedback on what you’d like to see. I’ll also say that many of your comments mirror discussions that we’re already having here.

It’s about how to make Trahearne more popular with the non-sylvari demographic isn’kitten I told them, it’s not going to work.

Cat ears do not belong on a sylvari.

True. Sylvari really are more dog people.

Anyway, welcome and it’s good to see that the many comments in this thread haven’t scared you off yet! Instead of giving advice, I’ll try trusting in your better judgement in how to steer the story. Sometimes, a little faith is all it needs.

I am disappointed that there will be no dragon songs, though. I could see Jormag in a top hat doing a kick line to “Hello, my baby”.

Rognik.2579:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Leah Hoyer.9382:

Thank you for all the comments and thoughts, everyone. I really appreciate the warm welcome and your feedback on what you’d like to see. I’ll also say that many of your comments mirror discussions that we’re already having here.

It’s about how to make Trahearne more popular with the non-sylvari demographic isn’kitten I told them, it’s not going to work.

Cat ears do not belong on a sylvari.

True. Sylvari really are more dog people.

Anyway, welcome and it’s good to see that the many comments in this thread haven’t scared you off yet! Instead of giving advice, I’ll try trusting in your better judgement in how to steer the story. Sometimes, a little faith is all it needs.

I am disappointed that there will be no dragon songs, though. I could see Jormag in a top hat doing a kick line to “Hello, my baby”.

“Send me a kiss by wire…”

But that was Warner Brothers, not Disney.

Welcome aboard!! Look forward to seeing your work !

We can’t wait to see what you come up with! I would be very okay with singing dragons.

Welcome aboard, Leah. I look forward to seeing what you’ll bring to Tyria in the months to come. We can get pretty passionate about the game here, but we do all want to see Guild Wars 2 become the best it can be.

Leah Hoyer.9382:

• Yes, I spent a lot of my career at Disney, but my passion is building great characters and telling great stories, regardless of genre. So, don’t expect the Elder Dragons to break into song anytime soon.

Could we at least plead that you use some of your past clout at Disney (and ANet currently) to get Gottfried to reprise a role as a talking/singing parrot?

Leah Hoyer.9382:

So, don’t expect the Elder Dragons to break into song anytime soon.

If only…

Seriously though, welcome to the team!

Find a way to bring back tybalt pls, ty <3

Welcome & Goodluck.

TexZero.7910:

Oh good maybe you will finally be bold enough to kill trahearne off.

NO!!! NOT Trahearne!! He is my favorite story character!

More on topic :P welcome Leah hope you have as much fun in the world of Tyria as we do!

Erukk.1408:

So, no singing Elder Dragons?

Can we at least get a Sons of Svanir recruiter breaking into a song and dance version of I’ll Make a Man Out of You?

Okay, I would actually pay to see that if done right. Just because it’d be hilarious. This like that, I wouldn’t mind seeing. Even if not part of April Fools to be honest.

But things like Hobo-Tron and what’s-that’s-Minstrel’s-name having arguments or being the subject of Scarlet’s joking hostage situation. Meh. When it came to joke characters and scenes Wozmack the Wonderful is far superior to our “friend” O-Tron (note: if you’ve at any point played the first human noble storyline, otherwise his reappearance at the very end is just a “…wut?” moment instead of a “omg! I remember him!” moment)

draxynnic.3719:

-snip- however, while others may disagree, I’m inclined to think that the general outlines of the various storylines have been solid. The problems have mostly been in their execution and how the various parts have worked together with each other and with pre-existing information.

I’d actually agree 100% on this.

The general outline of the storyline seems good, but each episode feels crammed together, covering individual plots all at once – the exception to this is Episode one which focuses more-or-less on one single thing: investigating the Zephyrite Crash in Dry Top, and tracking the Master of Peace. Episode 2 however split into two directions: showing off Scarlet’s work and introducing Mordrem; it overall worked, but could have used an additional step or two to help flesh both things out. Episode 3 and 4 is where it got really bad, however. I rather feel that each race should have gotten 3-4 steps to them, just as Taimi and the asura did. The charr one was longer than the norn and human ones, so in length it wasn’t too bad, but its execution was horrid and made it felt exceedingly short. I could go into more detail on this – upon request – but for now I won’t.

The same argument could be said for Season 1, though overall that was just this one big merry-go-round of “wtf is happening?” as each individual chapter/release felt overall disconnected, and how things were being tied so much into what would be reoccurring events made it even more confusing. The idiot ball repeating showing up didn’t help. But this is merely brief highlights – I don’t feel like going into depth tonight. But again, upon request, I will. I have been rather tempted to go do such anyways.

draxynnic.3719:

If musical numbers are something you like, don’t be afraid to put them in appropriate places… or even, with sufficient lampshading, inappropriate ones.

I also agree.

Just because people here say “don’t have things break into dance” – don’t not do that. If it makes sense, if it gives the right feels of comedy or tragedy or characterization, have characters break into song. So long as it makes sense that it’s done, and it’s done well, go ahead and do whatever you need to do to make a good story.

The problem only comes when something is done wrong. Having a single song every episode? That’d be too much. Having an Elder Dragon break into dance and song? Unless that’s Singalong, the Elder Music Dragon, just no (and even then, just no). But if it’s a character singing a song of lament over the grave of a lost loved on (e.g., if Ellyna Graidy were to begin singing a story about a bear and a bunny, and the bear dying – that would characterize Ellyna very well, it would be very fitting and very sad to hear), or if it’s something done intentionally to get a laugh, etc. so long as it fits, and is done well, don’t fear to do it.

That’s all I have to say for now. Maybe more later, we’ll see.

A dancing (maybe not singing) elder dragon would be possible, much like they did with Abbadon’s easter egg.

Welcome abroad! Maybe Tyria needs some dancing and singing, the world could be a better place if everyone did that once in awhile. But that’s fosho that the Disney prince dudebros aren’t what Tyria needs!
http://youtu.be/ct-CdyT4HkM

Leah,

Can we (you; ArenaNet) kill off the biconics yet? That would go a long way to improving the story-telling.

Sinbold.8723:

Welcome Leah, and good luck with your new position.

If I may, I’d suggest you check the history of Shriketalon.1937’s posts and read everything he’s ever written on the forums. I’m a huge fan of his ideas, as are many others on these forums.

With my also being a huge admirer of Shriketalon’s writings, I definitely second this recommendation.

KyreneZA.8617:

Leah,

Can we (you; ArenaNet) kill off the biconics yet? That would go a long way to improving the story-telling.

Sounds a little bit harsh but I like the idea.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Unless that’s Singalong, the Elder Music Dragon, just no (and even then, just no).

Kralkelimerick, the poetic elder dragon?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

draxynnic.3719:

-snip- however, while others may disagree, I’m inclined to think that the general outlines of the various storylines have been solid. The problems have mostly been in their execution and how the various parts have worked together with each other and with pre-existing information.

I’d actually agree 100% on this.

The general outline of the storyline seems good, but each episode feels crammed together, covering individual plots all at once – the exception to this is Episode one which focuses more-or-less on one single thing: investigating the Zephyrite Crash in Dry Top, and tracking the Master of Peace. Episode 2 however split into two directions: showing off Scarlet’s work and introducing Mordrem; it overall worked, but could have used an additional step or two to help flesh both things out. Episode 3 and 4 is where it got really bad, however. I rather feel that each race should have gotten 3-4 steps to them, just as Taimi and the asura did. The charr one was longer than the norn and human ones, so in length it wasn’t too bad, but its execution was horrid and made it felt exceedingly short. I could go into more detail on this – upon request – but for now I won’t.

The same argument could be said for Season 1, though overall that was just this one big merry-go-round of “wtf is happening?” as each individual chapter/release felt overall disconnected, and how things were being tied so much into what would be reoccurring events made it even more confusing. The idiot ball repeating showing up didn’t help. But this is merely brief highlights – I don’t feel like going into depth tonight. But again, upon request, I will. I have been rather tempted to go do such anyways.

I couldn`t agree more, though there are several topics on the matter over at the lore forum (and the seperate release parts), which go into more detail.

Overall it can be said, too much in too little time, with a very narrow point of view, which does not supports a living world , but a straight forward run of the mill adventure plot, with some open world integration, that is (to this point sadly) more insulting (from a writing and possible lore perspective) than interesting (why make some big artifact a simple fetchquest?).

I hope a new viewpoint will help and I hope you are able to free up some time for the others, so we might even be able to interact more with each other.

There are several people out there who want to be constructive and like a good conversation or interaction with someone in charge.

Oh yes, could you find whoever screwed up the Personal Story this update and make them unscrew it up?

The Ultimate Cleansing of Orr of Ultimate Destiny plot point should not come before the initial invasion of Orr plot point.

Also the now missing Apacia-Syska-Tonn quests where the Commander can fail and NPC’s can realize it, was IMO a refreshing diversion from the “All give praise to the Hero/Savant/Slayer/Guy who killed a Level 1 boss!” you normally get from NPC’s.

Well. Please make the story more dramatic….BUT do not make anyone death.

Lots of stories in the past are just nothing but “This place was destroyed by …..” “That guy was killed by…….” “That gal backstab an important guy and he is death.” Those cities are invaded by ….. and falling into the ground.". I mean it just nothing but involve with three things : Destroyed , death and mass destroyed.

It should have more plot twists or at least some battle that will not always result into 3 things above. Like a guy trying to bring a mage down with one shot but a hero knock her down and you injure and have to fight her with wound.

Or maybe something like the heroes fight with the big devil and when she almost fall, she abducts an important child…but another important character shoot an arrow to her energy source and weaken her and that devil runaway. After some time of investigation, the heroes found a place to defeat that devil once and for all, but the devil using a magic to disrupt a key character force some of the heroes to choose whether to find the way to cure the key character or ignore her and destroy the devil’s final core that will make the devil fallen….

Etc. Hope you can make more dramatic scene but less “killing and being killed” (look at Majory’s sister). Even this is a child rating but you can do it in a bit more interesting way, right?

PS Forgot to say, if the Gw2 dev team wants something to be destroy or almost fallen like what Lion’s arch got, make it in a bit more magic instead! Like instead of mass missile falling like XCOM, make it like some magic power makes people ill/confusing/freezing/burning in a bit illusion way/running around the town and can’t do anything and etc.

Welcome aboard Leah : ).

Leah Hoyer.9382:

• Yes, I spent a lot of my career at Disney, but my passion is building great characters and telling great stories, regardless of genre. So, don’t expect the Elder Dragons to break into song anytime soon. So, don’t expect the Elder Dragons to break into song anytime soon.

Now seeing the elder dragons suddenly break out into song would be hilarious. Jormag almost dead suddenly sings a blues track. Teq sings “Sailing”. While dancing with a top hat and cane. Tap dancing Mordremoth perhaps? Little birds and deer and rabbits could jump around in front and fly and land on their heads. NPCs and our chars could stand and scratch their heads in amazement and stifling bewilderment.

MorDread.2378:

Tap dancing Mordremoth perhaps? Little birds and deer and rabbits could jump around in front and fly and land on their heads. NPCs and our chars could stand and scratch their heads in amazement and stifling bewilderment.

Mordremoth would obvious be the Elder Dragon Princess.

His smooth deep singing voice would have the magical effect of enslaving the fuzzy woodland creatures (and plant folk) of the land to do his bidding.

draxynnic.3719:

Shiren.9532:

@draxynic I’m tired of the human filled plots. Two of the five biconics are human, Belinda was human, Jennah has been the most prominent racial leader despite the Pale Tree being the most relevant to both Mordremoth and Scarlet, Anise got a lot of screen time last year and this year, the Master of Peace is human and the Zephyrites are almost exclusively human (their survivors make this increasingly so) and Ellen Kiel was the primary NPC protagonist for a long time. I agree humans as a race seem less impressive than the other major races (and I do like the idea of emphasising human’s magical history), but I am so over human NPCs as the status quo for Living Story. We are dealing with a sylvari heavy plot atm (Mordremoth, Soundless, attack on the Pale Tree) and we literally don’t have a single major sylvari protagonist with a voiced line in the first half of the season.

Sure, I’d be happy to propose a trade – more important NPCs that aren’t humans (sylvari and asura are probably pushing beyond their fair share as well, compared to charr and norn) in exchange for more importance for humans (and norn) as a race rather than just a couple of special individuals the story is focusing on. Doesn’t have to be a zero-sum game, after all.

The funny thing about the state of humans in the game is that the steps they took between the games were necessary and appropriate…but they forgot them elsewhere.

In Guild Wars 1, the humans were the most important thing in the world. They had the gods who created magic and the world, the nations that stretched across all known continents, and the most important events all hinged around humanity. Scaling them back was necessary to avoid making Guild Wars 2 “humans and the other guys”. The gods went silent, and the idea of divine creations was declared an interpretation, not fact. The monk was removed from the class selection, and the nonthiest guardian rose in its place. The other continents were cut off, and only Tyria remained. This was the right thing to do, because it made humans equal to everyone else.

But the Living Story has let that slide and forgotten that no race is supposed to be better, no viewpoint absolutely correct.

According to the way the story is being written, Asura are 100% right. The Eternal Alchemy is a cold, hard fact, and anyone who doesn’t agree with their interpretation is simply wrong. Every single anomaly and mystery in the world can be analyzed, cataloged, and dissected by their formulaic and logical approach, and all the mysticism and mumbo-jumbo of the other races is simply primitive superstition before the might of Asuran intellect.

Likewise, the Sylvari are looking like pretty much the center of the world. There are only two possibilities for the Pale Tree, that she is a minion of Mordremoth gone rogue or that she is a manifestation of Tyria itself. The former would be good writing, because it forces the Sylvari to confront the difference between their idealism and reality. But visions and portents have often pointed towards the latter, and if Sylvari really are the children of an all-good, all-benevolent spirit of Tyria, they have replaced humans as the Chosen Ones. Their race would have the mandate of heaven, and everything moral and ethical would hinge entirely upon them.

That, and they introduced the Engineer, which is basically “The Charr Class”. ‘Cause it’s not right to have a monk if no charr would become one, but it’s totally okay to have a guns and gears engineer despite the fact that no Asura/Norn/Sylvari/Human would ever use their tech over the chance to be a golemancer, shaman, druid, or dervish.

….I miss my monk.

Regardless of petty bitterness, the Living Story needs to ensure that different perspectives on the world are valid. There are mysteries that the Asura cannot solve with their alchemical analysis, fantastic aspects of reality that demand the spiritual intuition of the Norn or the divine attunement of humanity. Likewise, no world leader should be right all the time. There should be disputes where each party has a valid point but also flaws to their approach. That is how fantasy should work. The world should be bigger than any one individual interpretation, more complex and amazing that a single perspective. That’s how you make a work with enormous breadth and depth that stretches beyond the scope of an individual or culture into something epic.

Michael Walker.8150:

My biggest issue currently is the “2 weeks” format. The Living Story wants to deliver those great cliffhangers but they only make sense if the time to the next chapter is kept short enough in relation to the story.

Oh god yes. Season 2 for me has been phenomenal story/lore wise when compared agaisnt Season 1. The problem is that ANET is still treating how they release this content as if it was Season 1. 10-20 minutes of new story content every 2 weeks, or in this current case 2 months is ridiculous. Either release that type of content faster or do a proper expansion.

I agree entirely Shriketalon. The Living Story has been way too focused on the new races (Asura and Sylvari respectively), and the Norn and Human lore feel neglected because of it. In GW1 the human Gods were a big deal, and I hate, HATE, how they’ve been completely erased from the story. I want the humans to feel more important, and not just through Queen Jenna. I want human magic to feel more important, and their mystical knowledge to matter. I want the Norn to be more than just a bunch of boasting drunk comic relief characters.

Currently it feels as if everything in Tyria is dominated by Asura technology, and they seem to be always right.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Currently it feels as if everything in Tyria is dominated by Asura technology, and they seem to be always right.

Well, except for the time they told me I couldn’t fire them out of catapults.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I agree entirely Shriketalon. The Living Story has been way too focused on the new races (Asura and Sylvari respectively), and the Norn and Human lore feel neglected because of it. In GW1 the human Gods were a big deal, and I hate, HATE, how they’ve been completely erased from the story. I want the humans to feel more important, and not just through Queen Jenna. I want human magic to feel more important, and their mystical knowledge to matter. I want the Norn to be more than just a bunch of boasting drunk comic relief characters.

Currently it feels as if everything in Tyria is dominated by Asura technology, and they seem to be always right.

Yes. Guild Wars 1 had so many rich human cultures. In GW2 we have now been degraded to one generic, human culture that has prevented any focus or exploration into the cultures from GW1.

Instead of Ascalonian or Canthan we are now mostly just Human. Which from a race perspective, sure, but from a cultural perspective have made us far less interesting and far more generic.

Shriketalon.1937:

Likewise, the Sylvari are looking like pretty much the center of the world. There are only two possibilities for the Pale Tree, that she is a minion of Mordremoth gone rogue or that she is a manifestation of Tyria itself. The former would be good writing, because it forces the Sylvari to confront the difference between their idealism and reality. But visions and portents have often pointed towards the latter, and if Sylvari really are the children of an all-good, all-benevolent spirit of Tyria, they have replaced humans as the Chosen Ones. Their race would have the mandate of heaven, and everything moral and ethical would hinge entirely upon them.

I agree with pretty much everything else you posted, and I’d definitely agree that asura and sylvari have been getting more than their fair share of the spotlight. However, on this point:

I think there are other interpretations than the two you suggest. The appearance of the Pale Tree in the vision is making her somewhat more of an “important cog in the Eternal Alchemy” – but keep in mind that it’s possible that Scarlet initially saw the Pale Tree because it was important to her. When we go through, Scarlet’s experience has at least influenced our own: we even hear some of the things she said or thought as she was going through. So she seems to have left an imprint on the Device – it’s possible that if a non-sylvari was to go through the device (without such an imprint affecting their experience), they might see something different, or nothing at all.

In fact, this might be exactly what the intent of Scarlet’s modifications to the Device were – she’s set it up so that it replays her vision rather than showing anything new.

It’s also worth noting that the Pale Tree says that she grants protection against corruption to sylvari, and that Ceara did something while in the machine that punched through that protection – her appearance in the vision may simply have been one last attempt to keep Ceara protected.

tl;dr: At this stage, I’m not convinced that the Pale Tree’s appearance in the vision means that she’s of immense importance to Tyria as a whole, simply that she’s of immense importance to sylvari in particular and the machine has been imprinted on by a sylvari.

Still, it would be nice to see the Pale Tree not being the sole source of prophetic visions.

draxynnic.3719:

Still, it would be nice to see the Pale Tree not being the sole source of prophetic visions.

Belly up to a Belcher’s Bluff table and drink yourself stupid. You will have visions.

Now whether they’re prophetic . . .

I also want to chime in on the whole vision thing.

1) The only reason our character claims that vision is the Eternal Alchemy because we know Scarlet claimed she saw it upon emerging. We don’t know exactly what that was, or if we would see something different if the modifications there. Not to mention that just because the Eternal Alchemy is real doesn’t make the other faiths any less real. I mean, the gods physically lived in Orr for years before their eventual withdrawal.

2) Nothing says that the Pale Tree is the center of Tyria. When we’re swimming in that other world, the first thing we see is the Pale Tree’s logo. And then we fall into it, showing the orbs orbiting the center one. I don’t feel like the center orb is the Tree, and I have no idea what the link is between falling into the logo and the seven orbs. Honestly, the Tree might be important, but I don’t think it’s the only one that can fend off against the dragons.

Rognik.2579:

Honestly, the Tree might be important, but I don’t think it’s the only one that can fend off against the dragons.

Of course not. The dwarves managed to do something close to it a while ago And I suspect the charr and norn are capable.

And I suspect humanity will have to realize the Six Gods probably aren’t going to blatantly resurface as great and powerful magical beings while there are Elder Dragons who eat magic running around.

First of all: welcome ^^

Second: I think the living world story exists out of 2 main problems:

1) plot holes/contradictions/important story stuff missing from the game:

• In ‘season 1’: we had no ingame background of scarlet. We simple knew she existed and was an ‘evil’ person. We had to read a seperate blogpost to know who she was (as a person) and why she went ‘insane’. That should have been in the game from the beginning. But in the game all we saw was a person who was evil, because the writers needed a bad guy (well.. girl in this case). Why she was doing the stuff she was doing is also never really explained in the game…

• Rox is a char and a gladium. Gladiums end up outside of the chain of command, so the ‘living story’-group are the only friends she has. But whenever the story the story needs Rythlock (who is at the top of the chain of commands) she suddenly is his best friend?

• At the end of the personal story (the story that existed when the game launched) tells us about a total of 5 dragons (zhaitan, Kralkatorrik, primordus, Jormag, Deep sea dragon). We had no idea Mordremoth even existed. But at the beginning of season 2 Mordremoth existense seems to be common knowledge. In 1 story instance we litteraly went from ‘Mordremoth doesn’t exist’ to ‘everyone knows everything about Mordremoth’. On the forums a developer said that we know Mordremoth through the order we joined in the personal story. The orders are made to fight dragons, we are 2nd in command in our order, Season 2 is all about Mordremoth but revealing that he even exists wasn’t big enough to happen in the game?

• We ‘investigate’ the iron marches (some land of the char) and find mordremoth minions. 5 min. later we meed rytlock who claims that the mountains in the west will stop those minions. And (apparently) we don’t bother telling him they are already a few meters to the north of him.

• I’m playing a human necromancer who saved the queens life. Why does someone who never had any dealings with the queen have a better chance of getting her to the summit?

• We are (one of) the best commanders in the pact and right hand of trahearne. The pact basicly is the joined forces of the orders in the game. Toghether with the pact I defeated zhaitan. When we discover Mordremoth woke up, our first reaction is to … hold a summit? How does that make any sense given what happened in earlier in the story? The only logical step would have been to dump our living world friends and resume our JOB at the pact…

• Flesh out the characters: everyone hates trahearne, because he had a bad job actor and NO background at all. The only thing we know of him is he is a scholar who needs to be a commander. He is the (besides our own char) the longest in the game, and the most important in the story. We meet at claw island where we wanted to warn on the coming attack, but we never even learn how he knew the attack would be coming…

2) Story badly translated to the game:

• In ‘season 1’ several enemies (dredge and Flame Legion, krait and nightmare court, etc…) started working together for no apparent reason. You had to find post on the forums by a dev. to know why they started to work together. If something needs an explanation then that needs to be in the game.

• Too many plotpoints in too little time: In only 4 updates: we linked scarlet to mordy, met another crazy sylvary, discovered scarlet’s old room, linked mordy to recent events, discovered a ley line, 2 forts got destroyed by mordy, Belinda was killed, demanded a summit just for fun, helped Rytlock to fix his crown, attempt to get rid of the ghosts, fought the champion of mordy. I wouldn’t mind if you put less amount of plot points in each update and this could resulting in more time to better explain the current story.

• Rythlock goes through a lot of trouble to find a fragment of a crown, but couldn’t be bothered to spend 10-15min. to find the other parts? The idea of the ‘find the other parts’ was good, but was not so great in the game. It was literately a go to this point on the map and press ‘F’, repeat 4 or 5 times. I feel this could have been fleshed out a bit more.

Also: The achievements for the living world are kind of stupid. It’s basically you do what you just did all over again. I don’t know if you have any say on this, but I figured I would mention it anyhow. (maybe you could try and get us at least a ‘skip dialogues button’ ^^ )

I wanted to ask for you guys opinions regarding lvl 80 Personal Story and the Living Story 1 – And how much you like phasing/teleporting.

• Event chains in Orr as well as during the LS1 are great (mostly), min/max attitude of players doesn’t work in favor of a story
• Orr’s gotta be cleansed at one point…
• Story Journal is mostly instanced
• Personal Story lvl 70 allows for standing at the airship and pressing F
• Biggest problem with phasing imo is the detached feeling when being in another state of the map and then entering the instance, not the teleporting all over the world itself – we have waypoints after all
• Orr at launch was exciting, now it’s efficient

My idea would go

• use NPCs instead of players to push the events in an instanced version, only use the best events.
• Flesh out “missing” parts of the personal story in dialog there
• Make the storming of the promenade of the gods or other events you deem crucial a mini dungeon
• Use laranthir to brief you what the pact’s plans are (event chains) in between the overarching story.
• For PS use the airship or the fort as a hub and for LS1 use vigil keep (it’s a cool place) or better the players’ respective order
• The intermediate story steps/event chains could be megaserver based maps with 15-25players max?

This way Anet could more easily manage changes in the world, eliminate problems with events having to be pushed in a maybe not so attractive map and Orr could be cleansed.
It also allows to “store” event chains and maybe even make them more interacting if no zerker stacking happens.

When you look at maps from Orr, it does remind me of a strategy map with 1 starting point and then 2-3 connecting maps which converge into an exit to the next map. With temples being the intermediate focus points.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/d/d2/Straits_of_Devastation_map.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Malchor%27s_Leap_map.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/2/28/Cursed_Shore_map.jpg

Give every order one path for instance

What are your thoughts and who thought of this before so I could read up on that thread?

Real life pink quaggan backpack would make a lot of money. Just sayin…

the only advice i have is, talk to GW1 story writers, they know how it’s done.

Welcome aboard! I hope you enjoy delving into the lore and I really hope you have time to actually play the games. I think it’s important to see the lore yourself to really understand it. Anyways, looking forward to seeing your work!

NathanH.1465:

• Rox is a char and a gladium. Gladiums end up outside of the chain of command, so the ‘living story’-group are the only friends she has. But whenever the story the story needs Rythlock (who is at the top of the chain of commands) she suddenly is his best friend?

It’s a long time ago, but as I recall, we first met Rox after she had met with Rytlock. Clearly, the two had some kind of relation before this started. Whether it’s friendship, kinship (sire/cub or siblings in different fahrars?) or something else, the two were always close. Besides, Rytlock never was one to do things the traditional way. I mean, he was hanging out with Logan back when the war between their people still raged. That’s odd.

NathanH.1465:

• I’m playing a human necromancer who saved the queens life. Why does someone who never had any dealings with the queen have a better chance of getting her to the summit?

Because, sadly, not everyone is playing a human character who met Jennah. As an asura, I’d rather try to convince the Arcane Council myself, but instead Taimi does it via Zojja. It’s just easier from a scripting position.

As for Trahearne, we do learn a little more about him in the sylvari path, but that’s not necessarily enough considering he’s in the Personal Story for nearly half it. Plus, what we do learn from him isn’t that detailed.

Welcome, Leah! I’m looking forward to your input – it sounds fun, & I envy you the ability to potentially play with characters you actually make.

I hope all the writers remember that our character/s are our link to the GW world, & for that reason, it’s so important to feel part of the world. This game started out incredibly well. (especially for the Asura) By the last updates, though it was an interesting story, I was beginning to feel like I was just tagging along, listening to other people’s problems whether I wanted to or not. So it would be nice to feel more involved, personally, again, though I understand getting voice actors for all that would be tricky. Personally, I’m fine with it being written rather than spoken, as long as my characters feel real again.

I hope you have a great time weaving the world!

draxynnic.3719:

I think there are other interpretations than the two you suggest. The appearance of the Pale Tree in the vision is making her somewhat more of an “important cog in the Eternal Alchemy” – but keep in mind that it’s possible that Scarlet initially saw the Pale Tree because it was important to her. When we go through, Scarlet’s experience has at least influenced our own: we even hear some of the things she said or thought as she was going through. So she seems to have left an imprint on the Device – it’s possible that if a non-sylvari was to go through the device, they might see something different, or nothing at all.

Fair point. Declaring that there are only two possibilities was a bit melodramatic and simplistic. Your words ring true.

draxynnic.3719:

Still, it would be nice to see the Pale Tree not being the sole source of prophetic visions.

You know the funny thing about this?

The visions, portents, and other possibilities were already built into the character selection for several races. Human beings chose a favored god, Norn pick a spirit, Asura and Sylvari choose a mentor based on their professor or cycle. Charr are a bit less glamorous with their survivor choice, but at least that actually makes an impact. There seems to be room for an additional personal storyline that either never got implemented, or was supposed to be a minor flavor change to other stories (such as the Sylvari luminary showing up in one personal story mission). It would be quite interesting to see those choices have an impact somewhere, especially if the story can find a way to work in a slightly different option for each race.

If that is too broad or requires too much time, it would still be nice to get glimpses of what is happening on the spiritual plane for other entities. The spirits are living beings with purpose and agency, and they should have a tangible impact on the world. The gods are out there somewhere, and hints of a diving mystery would make a wonderful payoff years down the line. And finally, some of the old school forces of the world would make great plot devices, ’cause there should still be some Seers and Forgotten running around somewhere out there. Not to mention Razah.

@Shriketalon: Indeed. The sylvari mentor comes up in some early story arcs, and I think there are priests and shamans that respond to characters of the appropriate god or spirit differently. AFAIK, the asura mentor is never referenced.

But yeah, while it would certainly take extra effort, they could bring all of these elements in. Gods and spirits might send messages, the asura mentor might develop a safer version of the Infinity Ball as a scrying device (although asura are used as plot devices as much as the Pale Tree, it’s just not always the same asura) and so on.

If giving PCs with different backgrounds different oracles is too much work (and I suspect at this stage it is) then they could at least change up the identity of the oracle more. Maybe some event relating to the Zephyrites can be foreseen by a representative of Dwayna. Or a shaman could bring a warning from Raven, which manifests as the PC seeing some event through the eyes of a raven (this could even be done as a step in its own right, with the player controlling a raven in the air in a similar process to underwater combat mechanics). That way, more than just the Pale Tree get the opportunity to be mystical.

Rognik.2579:

Not to mention that just because the Eternal Alchemy is real doesn’t make the other faiths any less real. I mean, the gods physically lived in Orr for years before their eventual withdrawal.

It’s also probably worth noting that the Eternal Alchemy is more of a philosophy than a religion, and one that doesn’t really say anything. When push comes to shove, at base all the Eternal Alchemy represents is an idea that there is some overall structure to reality – which is a bit of a ‘well, DUH’ statement. When it comes to the details, the asura don’t have any special insight – they’re building things up as they go along, but they’re still a long way off finding the Theory of Everything.

All the Eternal Alchemy predicts is that there is a Theory of Everything. Omadd’s device was intended to probe what the mechanics of it might be. We see something, but I don’t really think it’s the Eternal Alchemy either, or at least not in it’s entirety. At most we see a few important cogs, including Tyria. Either way, the asura have already acknowledged that beings such as the gods, Spirits, etc are part of the Eternal Alchemy, they’re just more interested in learning about the whole than developing a personal relationship with specific parts.

I don’t think I’m getting across my thoughts very well, but basically: The philosophy of the Eternal Alchemy isn’t really wrong or right since other than the claim that the multiverse has some level of higher organisation, it doesn’t really say anything. It’s one big hole with spaces labelled ‘INSERT SCIENCE!!! HERE’. Some of those spaces may be filled with things like ‘to create a golem, follow these steps’, but mostly, it’s more of an idea that there is some overall structure to the multiverse rather than saying much about what that structure is.

Please do what you can to remove the Saturday morning/Degrassi High vibe form the current living story. GW lore is an epic story spanning hundreds of years and there is no place for these meaningless politically correct character tropes.

The characters need to suck it up, and get darker, stronger, and less wussy. These are fricken elder dragons…people need to be dying…especially the more annoying ones.

Rognik.2579:

NathanH.1465:

• I’m playing a human necromancer who saved the queens life. Why does someone who never had any dealings with the queen have a better chance of getting her to the summit?

Because, sadly, not everyone is playing a human character who met Jennah. As an asura, I’d rather try to convince the Arcane Council myself, but instead Taimi does it via Zojja. It’s just easier from a scripting position.

As a player, how easy (or difficult) something is for them isn’t my problem. They created that mess, so they should write themselves out of it. It would even have been as easy as anyone of them saying something like:
“Hey, you know Trahearne, the leader of the pact, no? Since we will be fighting a dragon he should be at that summit too. I mean we WILL be fighting a dragon after all. This way everyone will have to invite 1 person to the summit. Good luck all”.

That line would solve following problems:

• Ease the fact that they ‘forgot’ the pact altogether as soon as the personal story ended. We went from we (the pact) killed zhaitan to ‘here are 5 strangers who somehow are your best friends…’. I even still wonder why I’m still around with them, why am I not with the pact fighting dragons?
• A letter from Trahearne appearing out of the blue (I imagine the pale tree talked to him about the summit, but as his right hand in the pact, I feel I should have contacted him too.). Trahearne could have even been in a non-spoken text dialogue instance…
• Give the players a (somewhat) reasonable explanation on why we aren’t inviting the queen/zoja/etc…

Something like that shouldn’t be hard to do (or to come up with). I love the lore in this game. But the living-world-lore is making it hard to keep loving it :/

Leah, I’m eager to see what changes you make to the story in this game. I got excited when checking through your twitter and listened to that Neil Gaimen speech and immediately thought “if this is the kind of person she sees as inspiration then maybe there is hope for GW2’s story.”

I find the current characters, dialogue, and story itself to be very one-dimensional, pedantic, limp-wristed, and not relatable at all. I get no sense of heroism or importance and it’s like I’m playing through some leftist high-school drama. It’s something that belongs on tumblr blogs quite frankly, not in a fantasy game about fighting dragons and so on.

Here’s hoping you get this ship back on course!

Im writing this after deleting a wall of text that was getting me nowhere and im a bit tired of not being direct.

GW2 lore continuity needs a thunder push forward with higher dramatic impact.

Darker times calls for greater deeds and greater heroes, and the Destiny´s Edge is GW2 screaming lance.

While you think about this and soak the concept in, try to do so while listening to Soules GW2 OST, and created art design by Dociu and Kotaki, and feel the stories being sung and told by the “pictures of 1000 words”….

…what heroes are brought about in those stories?

Thank you.

Rich Fuel.7253:

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The Walt Disney ?
The Walt Disney ?
THIS IS NOT DISNEYLAND!!! im not happy with this

Waitaminnit ;(
Without ex-Disney employees we wouldn’t have this
Or this
Or this.
Or this.
Or this
Or this

Without Disney, there’s not this guy. Without him, there’s no this.
Without Disney, this doesn’t exist.
Without Disney, this is just a foreign name.

I don’t much care for the broadway direction their major productions have taken lately, but to discredit anything connected to them is ridiculous ;D They’re responsible for a lot more than kiddy shows.

(ok, I get a little passionate about animation. sue me)

Erukk.1408:

So, no singing Elder Dragons?

Can we at least get a Sons of Svanir recruiter breaking into a song and dance version of I’ll Make a Man Out of You?

One thing I won’t defend Disney on is their zealotry for copyright :/

globe.7238:

Find a way to bring back tybalt pls, ty <3

Ever read the one about the monkey’s paw?

Ok, now remember what Tybalt went off to fight.

Sure you want him back?

Sariel V.7024:

globe.7238:

Find a way to bring back tybalt pls, ty <3

Ever read the one about the monkey’s paw?

Ok, now remember what Tybalt went off to fight.

Sure you want him back?

Yes.

. . . because then I could kill him.

Welcome on board, Leah!

I`ll try to sum up my impressions and critique, constructive hopefully, of season 2 of the Living Story so far in a few bullet points:

• I never played season 1 due to time being an issue and when I did have the time, the content was no longer available. I can turn a blind eye to that and just fill in the gaps, but season 2 assumes that I did and that I already know Braham, Rox, Taimi, Marjory and Kasmeer and that I was right there alongside them at the climax at the Breachmaker. As a result they reference events that I never took part in and have no knowlege of as a player. It is kind of jarring, but again I can look past it.

• The Personal Story and the choices made while playing through it, especially the choice of Order, the Priory in my case, and you being the second in command of the Pact are now basically treated as not really that important. Your character is sort of just in between jobs at the moment. In my head canon my character would certainly maintain ties with the Priory and the chance to explore an hitertho unknown region, Dry Top, and possibly the existence of a sixth Elder Dragon is something he would leap at.

• Which brings me to Delaqua Investigations. I do like these characters, but the focus of the story seems to be too much on them and their personal issues, while there are certainly more pressing matters to attend to. Character development and plot can go hand in hand, but listening to Kasmeer and Marjory`s pillow talk while investigating a crash site is hardly relevant to the story. And my point is that it does not add anything to the story or the setting. They are just characters with filler dialogue that is occasionally amusing, but not much else. And you just happen to travel with them and you become their “boss” for…reasons.

• It would be intersting to meet with them while they are doing their thing, but having them be the focus of the story seems to detract from it, rather than add to it. My point is that the way they are implemented is not quite up to the task. Their skills certainly has their place, but when you deal with something as serious as an Elder Dragon, you need people who have experience with that sort of thing. In other words the three Orders of Tyria, who are largely absent from the scene.

• Which brings me to Mordremoth himself, or itself. Without any foreshadowing, his name and the fact that he is an Elder Dragon is just pulled out of the blue without anyone questioning it. Everyone, inlcuding the player character, somehow knows the name and what it means.

• The problem is that the story seems like its taking great strides to progress without much time to let details sink in and give us time to really get engaged in what is going on and why. In one instance we are investigating a crash site, the next we are halfway across Tyria escorting a caravan holding a mysterious artifact, then we are helping the various races deal with the threats to their own lands in just over an hour or two of playing. It is a nice feature with the journal recapping the events, but the presentation seems like it is in a rush to get the story told.

• There are things that I like, such as getting to know Kasmeer better and her background when she talks about her once being a noble, and how the political system in Kryta works. That adds some flavor and is relevant to the setting.

• Also Canach and Anise were a highlight of their own in the latte part of Dragon`s Reach part 2. Their dialogue and banter was awesome, and what they are up to next is almost more interesting than the Elder Dragon itself.

• Its getting late as I write this, and I will probably edit this in the morning, but what I would like to see is characters that are releveant to the plot and keep the events consistent with the lore that is already established. There is so much this game has to offer to that end, and one of the reason why I still play this game. It has so much untapped potential.