Guild Wars 2

Tbh, im not sure if i should post it here or in Lore & Story sub-forum, but anyway.

Since majority of players was disappointed by Zhaitan fight, me included, and also majority of players is really happy about Marionette fight, and consider it to be really epic, again im with them on it, i was wondering if all Elder Dragons fight should be like Marionette fight.

Most players think that its cus of mechanics that this fight is epic or cus of the size of the boss, but from what i noticed its about that player to player interaction, sure the boss on its own is really great and all but without players cheering each other, without that morale riseing coments, it wouldnt be that epic. The setup of this event, that Tyria(all players on the map) vs Scarlet, is much more interesting than just 5 random Heros vs Scarlet, imho.

Just imagine that event, players in great numbers all fighting same enemy, an Elder Dragon, in open map, using some gimicky and fun mechanics, while cheering on everyone involved in this fight. If you cant imgaine it then just replace the Marionette with Dragon image.

Ofc, ther would be an epic music playing in the background.

What do you think, an open world event on a grant scale or a 5 man instance?
As for me, if i had to fight an enemy that threaten the world then it has to be with that world at my side.

No way. Now a large scale instance, I would be very much in favor of. Think an OF size, 150-200 man instance to take down an elder dragon.

That would be great. You can take who you want. You don’t have to worry about losing your spot on a DC. Guilds and friends can coordinate skills and strategize. This way, they can make these events really, really challenging and test player skill without handicapping groups with AFKs and terrible players.

I understand your point, but makeing it an instance would mean that before you can start you have to gather the group, and it would start something like we have now with dungeons “lfg: only pro/zerker” it would reduce accessibility.
Also one of the most important parts of Marionette event is the fact that its not a sterile environment wher only people you know are, but a place wher you can fight alongside some random and interesting “Heros”. Not to mention that anyone would be able to join in at any time whether its on main server or overflow.

Also another Wurm-like boss would only make people to hate it, right now Marionette have higher popularity than Wurm cus it more fun and accessible, while its still challenging and need some coordination. And lest not forget that if someone fail at some extra hard content, people that are ther with them will rage on them cus all their hard work was wasted, and since it would be a strategy based content, ther will be no cheering but only commands that CM would shout out.

I think, based on the Elder Dragon, instances and zones are a perfect way to psyche people up for the fights. I don’t truly understand why everything MUST be instanced always, you cannot even find a good story dungeon team anymore without one planning to zerg it. However, I do understand the frustrations many players have with an open world raid. Though both have their ups and downs.

Or just a little area with only this where you can tp. With timer too but you know all are here for that, and maybe option for “create” an overflow if you have 150ppl ready behind you.

For restrict player and dont see 165764567456487 overflow and crash srv, we easly can imagine some way for unlock that option, same as guild mission for exemple (without limit, but only 1 at the same time)

For an important fight like the one with Elder Dragons would be, crucial to GW2 story, we cannot rely on overflows! While these boss fights are fun, the amount of randomness and waiting to keep a spot on the main server and pray not to DC, would break the epic Dragon fight. Since EDs are so crucial to the story, they should be instanced. Preferably in a dungeon, if not, in an instanced raid where we can choose who to play with.

Definitelly don’t want people with utterly poor builds/gears and AFKers to cost me my victory in that final battle. And I don’t want to wait for it for hours either!

Thats also the reason why Marionette is fun for players, its that randomnes that create that feeling of tension, players have no idea if they will win, also instance and dungeons are made with the idea that untill the boss is slain, players will have infinite continue option avaliable for them, which will completly destroy any feeling of fear of loseing.

Also, even if its 10 or 50 man instance, it wont have that “World vs x” feeling, that Marionette is giving to players, wher you fight not only alongside friends but also complete strangers, its an enemy of the whole world so its a enemy of every "hero’ out ther, whether you know them or not. A sterile enviroment, wher you chose who will be in and who cant enter, wont allow for that feeling of fighting with whole world at your side.
A situation like this:
a: kitten , we need more ppl here!
b: we cant send u more than that
…
c: ok, i have some ppl with me, who need help
b: a reinforcement, great, go to x group
a: yea, we need any help we can get

, wont happen if players need your acceptance to enter, the unknown if you get suport or not is what makes this moment really intense.
As i said, people think that epicnes of this fight comes from the size of the boss or its mechanics, but the fact is that, it mostly comes from enviroment, from all of the players around you, from the idea that all the people, friends and strangers a like, had rallied on one map to work together, to cheer eachother on, and finaly to overcome this ordeal, and that every single one of them is equaly important in this fight.
If Anet had decide that Marionette would be played in a raid instance, it would completly destroy that epic feeling that you get when you fight her now.

Btw, im using Marionette as reference point, so again, if you like you can replace the word with Dragon.

You know a HM Zhatian would be pretty cool. As I was doing Marionette I thought this was how the assault on Arah event should be like. What if they offered a HM Arah assault which then opened up a HM Zhatian assault with airships and such.

I think that 5-man instances can be epic as well, it could be an interesting idea to make some of them on time as well What I really think that makes something exciting are clutch moments, and, as mentioned before, when people cheer for each other, which I believe can happen if 5-man groups as well

It’s important to keep the Zhaitan battle accessible to a 5-man team since it’s a part of the personal story. But what’s stopping there from being 2 (or more instances)?

If the battle is redesigned as a two pronged attack, then a huge 100 person instance could be a frontal assault while another instance (like the current one) would be a sneak attack / crippling blow. Then it’s the same story but two different ways to play.

Yeah…No.

I’d rather not have my enjoyment of the Storyline ruined by a fight that becomes ten times more difficult than it needs to be due to the randomness of people in the open world, being slapped on an Over Flow, Etc.

Keep the next Elder Dragon fight in an instance, just make the encounter more dynamic and difficult than the abomination that was Zhaitan. The Living Story updates difficulty should really be more in line with the Story Mode dungeons. This is content that people are investing a lot of time in to see, for better or worst, the continuation of the Guild Wars 2 storyline.

When you have a giant wall of a boss fight that isn’t actually difficult, but only made so due to people that have no business participating in it, the enjoyment of experiencing the storyline disappears really quickly. There is nothing difficult or challenging about the Marionette, yet it took me nearly a dozen attempts over the course of two days to actually kill it, due to having been constantly placed in Over Flow servers with players that simply did not want to listen to the basic instructions of how to handle each platform.

Major encounters, like the next Elder Dragon, or in the case of the current arc the finale against Scarlet, should be placed in 5-man Instances on par with most Story Mode dungeons. I don’t care if people want “Pro Zerker Only” in their LFG titles, I can simply ignore those groups, put up my own group that says “All are welcome”, and go.

Now for those that want challenge, things like the Wurms (which I still believe should be in a Raid Dungeon) are always welcome, and there’s nothing stopping Anet from making an “Explorable” version of a LS instance (like what was done with Secret of Southsun’s instance) that is significantly more difficult and awards shiny cosmetic gear, recipes, and what not.

Doing it this way, everyone wins. People who aren’t that good at the game have a Story Mode dungeon they can complete (even more so if it’s made in the scaling style of the Queens Jubilee instance), and those that want a hard core experience have one without having to worry about people showing up and ruining the experience for them.

But alas, we won’t get this. Instead, the next Elder Dragon will likely be a world boss that is ruined due to over flow, poorly geared and skilled players, and myriad of other issues. But one can dream, and prey, that Anet might actually listen to feed back such as this.

One of the best way i can imagine is something like that :

A story mode of the fight against Elder Dragon, solo or 5-man group. Something little complexe where you help some group of npc and help them for the tactict. (Then direct phase fight, like “burst phase” of WB.) In fact, this fight is just a “tutorial”, but count for your story.

After, a “explorable mode”, the WB, with timer like all other but in a closed zone where you can enter with systeme like pvp arena. We can imagine some server like eng 1, eng 2, fr 1, fr 2, inter 1, etc, you can see how many ppl on it before. And you can “create” dedicated serveur and edit title/add password for closed try.
Basicaly the fight is the same, but way harder and no more npc : its all player, you have to do the same tactict yourself (or find a better.) And maybe a nightmare version : this tactic dont work x)

Sorry for my english.

just and idea that i got from this thread, and i don’t know what a raid dungeon is so bare with me.

Make a whole new map that players can enter (like crown pavilion) but make so that the door has to be opended by some event chain that reflects the impending dragon fight for a warm-up. once the door is open leave it open. give some time (10-15 min) for players to strategize and for other players to show up before the fight. during the fight leave the door open but once the fight is over if the players win let them explore the map. but if they lose the fight then do an immediate kick of every player from the fight map to outside area.

I think this would solve the problem of AFK-er’s and keep the element of fighting alongside Friends and strangers.

I don’t know how to fix the overflow and main problem but i thin this would be headed in the right direction.

Don’t forget low-level trolls hogging arrow carts or jumping into the teleporter and blowing the event for everyone else.

Chris RJ.1843:

No way. Now a large scale instance, I would be very much in favor of. Think an OF size, 150-200 man instance to take down an elder dragon.

That would be great. You can take who you want. You don’t have to worry about losing your spot on a DC. Guilds and friends can coordinate skills and strategize. This way, they can make these events really, really challenging and test player skill without handicapping groups with AFKs and terrible players.

Gannon Bow Freak have a good point : if you can enter only 15min before you dont have do deal with so much afker. With server selection like pvp arena, can be an awesome alternat i think.