Guild Wars 2

Guys why do mordrem guys not drop loot? This is so frustrating. What is the intention not giving us drop-loot in mordrem events?

This is a trend that seriously disturbs me. We are in PVE and want loot.

I also don’t like that those events now don’t even give experience or karma. What is the intention of that?

Because people abuse the system, scale up the event to spawn champions and then stand around letting the champions spawn for easy bags and abuse anyone that tries to actually finish the event.

You can still just not let the champions drop loot. That’s no reason why normal mobs can’t have their normal loot table.

Having an endless supply of easy loot is usually never a good thing though. While it might not be as good as champion loot bags even regular mob-drops (especially material) can earn people quite much.

Blame the players for abusing the system.

Yeah right. Following ur logic, playing pve should be punished thus not being rewarded. Maybe they should remove loot in general, from dungeons as well?

I don’t think it matters whether it’s mordrem events, dungeons or whatever. It’s plainly unjustified to not have loot there. You have a right to get rewards when you play. They have diminishing returns already anyways, so u can’t abuse it as u state one can.

Drops from events should happen at the end of the event. They should happen, but they must be delayed to the end of the event, and given only upon success.

Otherwise people will focus more on tagging enemies than the event.

Not having drops at all is bad. But failing events on purpose to farm drops is worse. The Mad King’s labyrinth, the Orr event chains and the Scarlet assault in LA are the the worse offenders, often getting people harassed by farmers for actually wanting to do the events as they encounter them, and getting people used to mindlessly follow some commander tag spamming 1.

Having bad rewards is bad too. Like the ones we are having lately, often limiting anything decent to those who play non-stop without sleeping. Just did a ton of events, got lots of stacks, and I had to do the impossible to actually get participation because the events do not count anything like giving allies support, only kills and interactions with event objects. Still, I got so little blooms that I would need 2 weeks of these events to actually get one of those skins.

You are a medic in TF2, you just press 1 to heal a Heavy, and you get assists from his kills.

You are the sole responsible of Jonez being alive because everyone else outright ignored him, and without you the event would have failed, and you’ll get dolyak manure compared to a guardian that merely spamming staff 1 while running around the whole event, not even looking at the screen, watching some movies instead.

This game NEEDS to count assists and support for participation. You give someone quite some stacks of might? You keep them alive? You revive them? You deserve a cut of anything they earn for a while, from sharing event participation, to sharing some of their kills in WvW and getting bags from them too, to getting also some personal score in PvP when they get points themselves.

Why don’t they drop?

Because Anet made similar events like this in the past where foes dropped loot. And it was abused.

Why aren’t the rewards based on map progress?

Because Anet made similar events like this in the past where the players were rewarded on map progress. And it was abused.

Don’t like how things are? Blame the players who exploited these very kinds of events throughout Season 1.

Scarlet’s Invasions (and many, many others). People farmed few events, letting champions spawn and killing only them.

Escape from Lion’s Arch. Hour long event that tracked progress by maps. Became full of players afk’ing and getting rewards for doing no work.

People still do this stuff. If you were around during Season 2, you might remember the beginning treatment of the Barrowstead event chain that got buffed during Episode 3. People upscaled the events and failed them only to farm champions as fast as possible. People still upscale them, but now failing is more harmful than success and champions spawn less often, so people upscale and kill the last boss as slow as they can while not hindering themselves from farming the other champs in the zone.

And now that anet completely prevented this kind of exploiting, people are QQ’ing and kittening about not having the basis of what allowed that exploitation. Most of them might even be the very exploiters.

I think maybe the solution would be some sort of highly localized, highly personalized, but very fast-acting diminishing returns. Like give each player an invisible quota, and it would fill fast, but also empty fast.

So like each player would only be able to earn loot off of like 30 normal mobs, 10 vet mobs, and 5 champ mobs before his quota for each fills up, and after that he can’t earn anymore for a cooldown period of a few minutes perhaps (and only partially filling the quota, each would empty gradually so it would balance out to the same basic loot per minute). This would allow you to get a decent amount of loot, whether you show up early or late, but there would be no point to “farming” the event, because past a certain point, it wouldn’t offer you anything new.

Now the flipside of this is that the cooldown should be fairly low, so continuing to do stuff would still be worth it. Maybe it would even get reset when the event ends. This would just provide a slight buffer, to make “doing your best” at the event more of a priority than “juggling the event as long as possible.”

Drops from events should happen at the end of the event. They should happen, but they must be delayed to the end of the event, and given only upon success.

I disagree. I think that they should figure out a good way to encourage completing the event over farming it, but removing dropped loot is not the way to do that. Dropped loot is just FUN, it provides a more visceral sense than a reward chest at the end. They need to make every effort to preserve, or even increase the amount of enemy-dropped loot, just do so in a balanced way.

One other thing that might be a decent idea, to remove “tagging,” is to bring in “appearance loot,” that is, if you are within a certain range of the mob when he dies, then you get loot, even if you never touched him. This would only work inside an event, and you would have to be “registered” by the system as having participated in the event (by having previously killed enemies or activated interactions), but once the game knows you’re there and participating, then any enemy near you would have a chance of dropping loot without you having to tag him. Marvel Heroes does this, and is even more flexible about it, allowing you to get loot from mobs that died right as you get there, but it’s tricky to balance out against people trying to bot or AFK.

Drops are fun, but there’s lots of enemies for that. Like in instances, dungeons, fractals and roaming open world, and of course when defeating the enemy is a specific event objective like events for killing an enemy or events for defeating waves of enemies without other objectives.

But when you add other objectives to the mix like defending an NPC or structure, or using bundles and other interactive objects, killing enemies should not be more rewarding than defending.

And when there’s a timer, drops should not happen during the event, to stop people from dilly dallying and going after pointless enemies just because they are easier to kill than the annoying elite that will break the battery of left alone but drops next to nothing.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Why don’t they drop?

Because Anet made similar events like this in the past where foes dropped loot. And it was abused.

Why aren’t the rewards based on map progress?

Because Anet made similar events like this in the past where the players were rewarded on map progress. And it was abused.

Don’t like how things are? Blame the players who exploited these very kinds of events throughout Season 1.

Scarlet’s Invasions (and many, many others). People farmed few events, letting champions spawn and killing only them.

Escape from Lion’s Arch. Hour long event that tracked progress by maps. Became full of players afk’ing and getting rewards for doing no work.

And now that anet completely prevented this kind of exploiting, people are QQ’ing and kittening about not having the basis of what allowed that exploitation. Most of them might even be the very exploiters.

If I remember correctly doing a successful Scarlet invasion and LA attack the rewards at the end were way way better than just farming champs. I remember people going crazy for failing at them. Am i wrong?

The “rewards” for those events are a bad joke.

Scarlets invasion, the mad kings lab etc. have been fun. And xes, the loot is a part of that fun.
Those mobs give just NOTHING. Not even exp, or karma. Not stacks.
This is just depressing and for me those events are just a waste of time.

Etien.4601:

If I remember correctly doing a successful Scarlet invasion and LA attack the rewards at the end were way way better than just farming champs. I remember people going crazy for failing at them. Am i wrong?

You’re wrong about the second part. The first part’s rather subjective.

During the Scarlet Invasions, people upscaled and farmed the living hell out of events for the drop loots. This wasn’t so evident at first, but after the first two weeks or so, it was plain as day that was happening, and you’d rarely get past the second of five tiers.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Etien.4601:

If I remember correctly doing a successful Scarlet invasion and LA attack the rewards at the end were way way better than just farming champs. I remember people going crazy for failing at them. Am i wrong?

You’re wrong about the second part. The first part’s rather subjective.

During the Scarlet Invasions, people upscaled and farmed the living hell out of events for the drop loots. This wasn’t so evident at first, but after the first two weeks or so, it was plain as day that was happening, and you’d rarely get past the second of five tiers.

They tried to scale them on my server, but we didn’t have the population back then for Champs. Just lots and lots and lots of vicious elites that gave no loot.

Season 1 was a very dark time for the small servers.

Basically, it works like this:

You can either have an endless supply of loot bags, or you can have an event reward.

Players have shown again and again that if there is a way to stall an event to farm it for loot they will stall the event and farm it for loot because there is no incentive to complete it faster. If you have both mob drops and event rewards, players will simply stall the event as long as possible and then finish it because it’s the most rewarding course of action.

The silverwastes approach was the good one. Give people meaningful rewards for even completion, and don’t give them a reason to stall events.

This event was silly because the events gave neither completion rewards nor drops, and the system that governs event participation has always rewarded hit and run more than stay and fight.

If you want to see fun events that people bother to complete, a few things have to happen:

• Events need a fail condition, and failing needs to give zero rewards.
• Events, when successful, need to pay out meaningful rewards based on a revised bronze/silver/gold system, and be enhanced by how well the event was done by all involved. (e.g. if nobody lets an escort NPC take damage, everyone involved gets a loot multiplier, The faster everyone completes a “defend this objective until the bar is full” event, everyone gets a loot multiplier.)
• Events need to stop paying rewards to players not within the event area when they end. This is the only way to stop hit and run event exploitation.
• Magic find needs to affect event rewards, as it is a useless stat for the intended core content of the open world.

mtpelion.4562:

They tried to scale them on my server, but we didn’t have the population back then for Champs. Just lots and lots and lots of vicious elites that gave no loot.

Season 1 was a very dark time for the small servers.

Erm…

Elites weren’t added to event scaling until Tower of Nightmares. Scarlet’s Invasions predate that.

o.O

@PopeUrban: Can’t see anything to disagree with there, though I’m not sure if that’s all that needs to be done.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

mtpelion.4562:

They tried to scale them on my server, but we didn’t have the population back then for Champs. Just lots and lots and lots of vicious elites that gave no loot.

Season 1 was a very dark time for the small servers.

Erm…

Elites weren’t added to event scaling until Tower of Nightmares. Scarlet’s Invasions predate that.

That is false.
(the timing of the Elites being part of scaling part, not the order of events).

Are you sure, because I definitely recall it being a HUGE thing about elites being added to the open world – and them being named elites (before they were named no differently than standard foes but had that silver border in their icon; they were called dungeon veterans by devs but elites by players).

in the even we had over the last weekend not getting into all here we should have gotten something for killing things or something for doing the event and it should be he same for all events of this type.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Are you sure, because I definitely recall it being a HUGE thing about elites being added to the open world – and them being named elites (before they were named no differently than standard foes but had that silver border in their icon; they were called dungeon veterans by devs but elites by players).

They were definitely silver-ring foes, they definitely appeared instead of any champions, and they definitely took so long for our paltry server population to kill that we only saw Scarlet a handful of times over the entire course of the release.

heh, even if they drop something, the chance on getting anything useful at all is slim.