Guild Wars 2

NOW WHAT?
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Months have passed. The Pact has long since pulled up most of their stakes in order to throw their main force against Mordremoth, but they left enough behind to continue paring down the remaining Risen. The entire kittening continent of Risen. And after those months of tribulation, the temples are slowly being rebuilt, roads are being restoned, and mysteries are being explored. Zombies still lurk in isolated pockets and beyond the fences, and worse things conjured by Evil Viziers™ skulk in unexplored shadows, but for now, the stinking cesspool of ruins, fishbones, and coral is finding something like peace.

So, in the process, you’ve utterly wrecked a high-level farm area by civilizing it. Trait unlocks need to be relocated. Skill points need repurposed. Players need something to do.

How do YOU suggest this be fixed, when it seems like the intention is that it never would be fixed – that fixing it might cause problems worse than just the discontent that the area is stagnating?

I think a good way to solve the issue would be to install a sort of “time orb” in Fort Trinity.

Now what do I mean by that? Essentially, if they truly wanted to make Orr be cleansed, by default if you have not defeated Zhaitan and participated in the victory celebration, Orr would remain dead. However, if you did complete it, the default would switch to it being cleansed, with a whole host of new events, activities, vistas, and POIs to explore.

Meanwhile, if you ever want to switch between the different" phases", you’d only have to click said orb. You would not need to complete the Personal Story to switch to cleansed orr, nor would you be restricted to cleansed orr after completing it. In addition, both versions of Orr can have totally unique rewards and content, providing incentive to go to both places.

It’s basically like adding new maps, in a fashion similar to how Blizzard is handling Warlords of Draenor by making a “pre-destruction” version of the already-existing landmass of Outland. The two versions would have totally different thematic appeals, but would be located in basically the same place lorewise.

It’s the best compromise I think they could come up with, without actually dividing the playerbase up.

Well, to keep the orrian shore as busy as pre-Arah story dungeon instance without changing much, I suggest that we have different set of dialogues for those who have completed the personal story and for those who have not.

The new set of dialogues will be more on the Pact is doing a major mop-up ops/tug-of-war to clear up the main bulk of Zhaitan’s minions before they outsource the remaining small pockets to mercenaries (i.e. merry men of Maakel the Immortal).

Sadly, I don’t think short of changing the area of Orr can the idea of it being cleansed be properly conveyed to the player base. After all, it’s a land that’s been filled with undead for… well, 250 years actually. Way back in GW1, southern Kryta would have a couple attacks of Orrian undead. So all the dead that could’ve been gathered from this densely populated land, plus all the troops who died trying to even just stem this tide means that killing the undead could last for years if not decades. And does cleansing Orr mean just clearing out the dragon corruption, or does it include removing all the coral and such from the land?

Honestly, I think the best solution is adding a fourth Orr map, one just past the map of Arah. You can see there is still a small corner of Orr raised but currently inaccessible. I figure this is the place you can have something to show the post-Zhaitan landscape, even if it’s just a small, stable settlement.

I can not remember the lore properly enough to go into detail, but if I remember correctly there was a specific point towards the end of the storyline of Guild Wars Nightfall where all the land became corrupted by Abbadon’s nightfall. Didn’t the landscape change drastically with horrors? I know they were just your own personal instances, but it would seem if they had the capabilities to make two different versions of the map back then, they surely should be able to nowadays, even with the open world change. It would be very cool to have a before personal story/after personal story. Heck, I’d even love to see all the changed that I have helped create and shape with all of the renown hearts and events as well. The first part about Nightfall could be completely inaccurate though, due to me not remembering it well enough; it’s been many a years.

Well, therein lies the problem. Guild Wars 1 was much better set-up for storytelling like that because the explorable zones were all instances. It was easier to have two copies of the same zone in different states since you never ran into people in the field. Here, you will encounter people out in the world, but that means you both have to be perceiving the same map. It would be much more complicated having to track who wants to enter the undead-infested Orr and who wants to enter the semi-purged Orr.

I think we might just have to settle with informed information that Orr is getting clensed. Just like how a few people stayed behind in Prosperity despite it being a ghost town after vines destroyed it all, or the Human-Charr peace treaty, it has to stay permanent for story reasons.

I’ll copy from the new narrative director thread

I wanted to ask for you guys opinions regarding lvl 80 Personal Story and the Living Story 1 – And how much you like phasing/teleporting.

• Event chains in Orr as well as during the LS1 are great (mostly), min/max attitude of players doesn’t work in favor of a story
• Orr’s gotta be cleansed at one point…
• Story Journal is mostly instanced
• Personal Story lvl 70 allows for standing at the airship and pressing F
• Biggest problem with phasing imo is the detached feeling when being in another state of the map and then entering the instance, not the teleporting all over the world itself – we have waypoints after all
• Orr at launch was exciting, now it’s efficient

My idea would go

• use NPCs instead of players to push the events in an instanced version, only use the best events.
• Flesh out “missing” parts of the personal story in dialog there
• Make the storming of the promenade of the gods or other events you deem crucial a mini dungeon
• Use laranthir to brief you what the pact’s plans are (event chains) in between the overarching story.
• For PS use the airship or the fort as a hub and for LS1 use vigil keep (it’s a cool place) or better the players’ respective order
• The intermediate story steps/event chains could be megaserver based maps with 15-25players max?

This way Anet could more easily manage changes in the world, eliminate problems with events having to be pushed in a maybe not so attractive map and Orr could be cleansed.
It also allows to “store” event chains and maybe even make them more interacting if no zerker stacking happens.

When you look at maps from Orr, it does remind me of a strategy map with 1 starting point and then 2-3 connecting maps which converge into an exit to the next map. With temples being the intermediate focus points.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/d/d2/Straits_of_Devastation_map.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Malchor%27s_Leap_map.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/2/28/Cursed_Shore_map.jpg

Give every order one path for instance

What are your thoughts and who thought of this before so I could read up on that thread?

My thought is basically:

Orr is being cleansed, but it’s not happening overnight. The place still has lots of Risen, and the Pact is still busy keeping the Risen under control. As time passes the rate of attacks are dropping as the numbers of the Risen are slowly but steadily culled, but it’s estimated to be years before the region as a whole is truly safe.

However, having been regarded as an area relatively safe from attack by the dragon, the southern part of Orr had much fewer Risen than the attack path across the northern and eastern shores. While the rest of Orr remains a battleground, the Risen presence here has been brought down to a level more like the Svanir raids in the Shiverpeaks or the centaurs in Kryta – enough security can be provided for settlers to come.

So now we have human pilgrims arriving hoping ultimately to reclaim their holy land. Sylvari have also come to assist in coaxing life from the once corrupted land. Asura – some Inquest, some with better intentions – have begun setting up labs in the area hoping to study the effects of the cleansing and, when the humans aren’t looking, to analyse human religious artifacts. As the settlement grew, ship-builders and sea adventurers began to arrive – hoping that with the death of Zhaitan, the destruction of Lion’s Arch, and the blocking of much of the Sea of Sorrows by Southsun Cove that a harbour on the southern coast of Orr could become the new trading hub between Tyria and lands abroad, and by claiming their stake early they can strike it rich.

Meanwhile, the Order of Whispers watches the eastern approaches with wary eyes, lest Palawa Joko get it within his head to claim the Pact’s hard-won conquest for himself… or perhaps looking to use Orr as a launchpad for a campaign against Joko…

Basically, the TL;DR version is: Leave the pre-existing areas pretty much as they are, with justifications as to why that is so (the Risen keep destroying any new growth despite the cleansing, and so on). Create a new region that can represent the leading edge of the cleansing of Orr, with the justification that it was the least corrupted to begin with because it had little strategic value to Zhaitan.

Im not sure players realize that undead can be created w/o the elder dragon. Cleansing Orr wont happen overnight it could actually take decades.

To be fair, Anet has said (forgot where) that they’ve had some problems with instancing, which is why have things like My Story events supposed to take place in pre-LS Lions Arch, taking place in the ruined one.

I suspect that it may take more substantial content drops, maybe an expansion, or at least more time, to let us have instancing like that.

I think it’d be cool if we at least there’s a bit of advancing in the retaking of Orr, even if not completely cleansed. Maybe a new, bigger fort on the east shore to show a greater control of the area.

I’d like to see Orr looking a little Astehtically better. I get it’s an undead area, but it kind a sucks come out of the colourful areas while levelling into the drab ugliness of Orr.

Maybe we can see the Pact building out., new roads, and wreckage cleared. With the cleansing, maybe we can see the odd patch of grass and pristine waters starting to reclaim the surface.

Or maybe ol’ Mordemoth can show his power there. A huge area without its Elder Dragon overlord? Might just send a few vines into the area. A touch of green might actually spruce up the greys and browns of Orr.

*orr gets cleansed
*destroyers start showing up there
*we find out primordus has surfaced at the ring of fire

bam just like that we have a reason to go to ring of fire and new mobs to keep orr a level 80 zone

draxynnic.3719:

Meanwhile, the Order of Whispers watches the eastern approaches with wary eyes, lest Palawa Joko get it within his head to claim the Pact’s hard-won conquest for himself… or perhaps looking to use Orr as a launchpad for a campaign against Joko…

This ^

I was choking on my coffee during LS 2.0’s world summit instance when the Pact reveals they are planning to go after Kralky next. I was like "kralky was last seen at crystal desert, which is now joko’s crib. How the heck is it possible for a large group of armed folks, with tanks and airships, just walk into crystal desert, while assuming the mummy king will assure himself “Keep calm and continue to rule Elona, they just come to take care of that giant lizard and then leave.”

So, it appears like Order of Whispers does manipulate the top brass to march into crystal desert… dum dum dummmm~~

Rognik.2579:

Sadly, I don’t think short of changing the area of Orr can the idea of it being cleansed be properly conveyed to the player base. After all, it’s a land that’s been filled with undead for… well, 250 years actually.

Between Zhaitan rise and defeat, 106 years passed. :d The post-cataclysm ghouls were animated by Vizier Khilbron and stopped being animated after his death (1071-1072), one year, so it doesn’t really count

There’s nothing to indicate that those undead spontaneously de-animated after Khilbron’s re-death (in fact, there are still undead in Kryta at least up to Eye of the North, although those might be ‘home grown’ rather than remnants of Khilbron’s force), and while Khilbron was certainly in control of them, it’s not entirely clear he was the one who animated them in the first place. It’s also been indicated that the Cataclysm made it easier for Zhaitan to claim Orr – this might simply have been that Orr was undefended, but I think it’s at least been suggested somewhere in an official source that part of the reason was that undead already in the area due to the Cataclysm were easy to corrupt.

@loneknight: It may not even be outright manipulation. The Priory also likely has reasons to want Joko gone, and I expect neither the Vigil nor Trahearne are really happy with the situation in Elona. The Order could probably just go ’y’know, if we get the opportunity to knock Joko off, we could gather together the resources of Elona to go back into the main fight against the dragons’ – and if they think it’s viable, the other entities in the Pact would probably go along.

Depending on how they do it and how good Joko’s intelligence network is (and how stingy ArenaNet wants to be about new maps – my guess is ‘very’ from their track record so far, but who knows?) then Joko might get very little warning at all. One moment he’s starting to relax because the attack of dragon minions from Zhaitan and now Kralkatorrik on his northern border has slowed, and he can afford to send troops south to deal with an uprising that just appeared with convenient timing. Next thing he knows, the army that just took down Kralkatorrik has seized his breadbasket and there are airships knocking on the Bone Palace.

Goatjugsoup.8637:

*orr gets cleansed
*destroyers start showing up there
*we find out primordus has surfaced at the ring of fire

bam just like that we have a reason to go to ring of fire and new mobs to keep orr a level 80 zone

Who needs Primmy? I’m curious about the state of Mursaat Central right now ;D

Sorann Peace.9056:

I think a good way to solve the issue would be to install a sort of “time orb” in Fort Trinity.

Now what do I mean by that? Essentially, if they truly wanted to make Orr be cleansed, by default if you have not defeated Zhaitan and participated in the victory celebration, Orr would remain dead. However, if you did complete it, the default would switch to it being cleansed, with a whole host of new events, activities, vistas, and POIs to explore.

Meanwhile, if you ever want to switch between the different" phases", you’d only have to click said orb. You would not need to complete the Personal Story to switch to cleansed orr, nor would you be restricted to cleansed orr after completing it. In addition, both versions of Orr can have totally unique rewards and content, providing incentive to go to both places.

It’s basically like adding new maps, in a fashion similar to how Blizzard is handling Warlords of Draenor by making a “pre-destruction” version of the already-existing landmass of Outland. The two versions would have totally different thematic appeals, but would be located in basically the same place lorewise.

It’s the best compromise I think they could come up with, without actually dividing the playerbase up.

Right on! That is an excellent idea! I once posted the suggestion to make the current Orr an instance in the story journal before we had a story journal! That way the default for the level 80 content maps would be consistent with the ending of the personal story and for those who want to see what it was like they can use their personal story journal as a means to flashback to the way Orr is currently.

I like your idea much better, Sorann Peace.