Guild Wars 2

Many people have voiced their disappointment over the fact that the “personal story” is anything but that. Lack of continuity and connections, choices and anything resembling cultural/personal identity once you’re out of the earliest chapters made the story a colossal letdown. The result is that it’s all about Trahearne, which has made him the target of a LOT of hate (undeserved, IMO, as he’s not the problem, just a symptom).

The living world arcs I’ve seen take that even further and don’t involve us at all. Even more than in the main plot, we’re just tagalongs while the NPCs babble among themselves. Sure, they order us around and we do the actual work, and now and then we may get a pat on the head for our efforts, but we’re not actual characters in these stories.

I understand why this is done, of course. Recording spoken lines for all species and genders is more expensive than just having the NPCs talk. Implementing actual dialog choices or personalized conversations (a charr acting and being treated differently from a sylvari) would cost even more. But without our characters’ involvement, without choices and without a sense of identity, we will never have a place in this game’s stories. And that’s a bleeding shame since that was one of the things that were supposed to be different in this game.

So I’m very curious if there are any plans to make at least a little space for our characters in future events. If we can’t talk in cutscenes, can we at least have some more non-voiced conversations with NPCs that go into a little depth? Can we get to know them, form connections? Can we hope to ever be able to feel like we’re actually playing a charr when playing a charr, playing a norn when playing a norn, and so on? Or will both the epic and the whimsical stories just be a matter of NPCs doing their thing while we stand silently by the wayside as a generic, featureless extra?

I don’t want to take the sole spotlight. I do want interesting NPCs who grow and are competent and involved and get things done, but I have to be able to connect with them, get credit for my actions and feel like I’m actually an active participant in the stories.

I think we’ll see this is the story progress towards its current conclusion, the defeat of zhaitan was just the start of the proverbial snowball rolling down the hill

I actually loved the personal story and I’m not really sure what you didn’t like about it. My problem with it is that it came to an end. I just want more of it and more opportunities to interact with the world like I did with my personal story. I think you might have been making that point.

Personally I didn’t like the fact that personal story isn’t even near to the level of GW1 story.
Ok-ok, cliche over cliche, dragons and stuff. I can understand this, developers needed a reason to unite all races, they used the worst one but whatever.
1. No epicness. At all. I hoped that Zhaitan could be intresting, however I got “fight” against passive lizard on a wall.
2. Lack of intresting quests. I can remember now only pirate alco-contest and minister (what was his name?) party.
3. Lack of hardcore. Nuff said. Unskilled idiots are pleased.
4. Trahearne. I can’t say that I liked Kormir at Nightfall. But I didn’t hate her either. But this cucumber is quite annoying.
5. No atmosphere. One-two death? Of some useless characters? You could at least burn couple of villages. Really, dragons?
So, I got feeling that the plot was guided by some book like “How to write banal fantasy story for kids”
Sorry for my English.

Thrudrheim.8143:

I actually loved the personal story and I’m not really sure what you didn’t like about it.

There have been quite a few posts about it, but I can sum it up again. The huge problem is that it is neither personal nor a story. It is not a story because there is no continuity, only a collection of shallow one-shots that cease to matter and are usually completely forgotten once they are over. And it is not personal because there’s no room for emotional attachment, character development, choices and interaction, or in fact anything that would allow my character to have a personality and identity.

As a charr, I lose my warband, gain another and abandon it again forever without the slightest emotional involvement because there is zero time to get to know them, interact with them, which renders the closest bonds a charr has and the greatest loss she can suffer completely hollow. As a sylvari, I’m a Valiant of the Wyld Hunt, born burning with one specific purpose — which is forgotten and never mentioned again only a handful of levels later, just as the charr’s warband is forgotten, just as everything else is forgotten. And because I’m never allowed to have a personality, a cultural identity, an emotional attachment to anyone, continuity or credit for past actions, my character is not in fact a character. Of course, a non-character cannot carry a story or in any way, so it becomes all about the NPCs. And that is hugely frustrating. It very much is NOT “all about me” despite what the game promises.

Hell, I don’t WANT it to be “all about me” because I’m sick and tired of all the silly games that fawn my character over the moon as the only intelligent and capable individual in the multiverse, the promised savior, the chosen one, blah blah blah. I don’t mind sharing the spotlight, or taking orders, or helping someone else grow into their potential, as long as I still have my purpose and get recognized for it. But I very much mind not even being allowed to be a character.

And since the Living World content features just about zero interaction between my character and the all-important NPCs, it is even more frustrating than the personal story, which at least has my character participate in cutscene conversations and receive some recognition from NPCs as someone who’s supposed to matter, even if the shoddy execution botches it.

With the Living World content, I get the feeling that they don’t even intend for us to have a place in it. If that’s the future of GW2’s attempt at storytelling, it’ll be a huge letdown. I very much want them to fix the problems with their storytelling, not give up any attempt of involving my character altogether.

Chadramar.8156:

Words.

Completely agree with this. The game’s story was disappointing. None of the characters were particularly memorable and/or didn’t have any personality (Trahearne, obviously. I think half of that was his voice actor’s fault).

I guess I tend to be forgiving toward Trahearne. He’s a plant-person, so personality blandness, well, maybe that’s just life as a Sylvari. Sometimes we end up working with people we don’t like.

There was definitely SOME level of emotional attachment in certain threads. My wife had to be coaxed back after the death of Tybalt. The same emotion doesn’t seem to be found in the other mentors, and I think it just comes down to Tybalt having the semblance of personality with his quirky passion for apples. And to any devs reading this, that’s exactly what makes a good character. Passion about anything, and sometimes ESPECIALLY passion about something besides the main story.

I agree that the Personal Story was really more like a hundred tiny, forgettable interactions. Contrast that with the missions in GW1, which were much more epic, and often reached a climactic ending within each mission. You had to get through enemies, sometimes put together pieces of a puzzle, sometimes last through waves of enemies, sometimes fight a boss at the end. Sound familiar? All those things happen in GW2, but they happen in small doses, and they happen over and over and over. In GW1, each mission was massive, distinct, and unique. I only played through Prophecies maybe twice in its entirety, but I remember every mission, because they were all unique. And that was one of the keys in their epic reputation.

People who hate Traehern have never done the Sylvari story path. He gets dropped on every Non-Sylvari since all his early character development is done in the Sylvari path, rather then say, the Norn.

Even in the Sylvari storyline, he just sorta appears and is introduced as, “The dude what knows everything about Orr, he can save us!”

Personal Story just needs to be renamed, “The Saga of Trahearne” or something. It’s not that it’s BAD, it’s just not “Personal”.

I did play through the Sylvari story path, but it really changes nothing. It’s just hard to imagine him as the dude who unites those three factions and becoming the leader of the Pact. He’s more like a scholar who spent all his life on exploration, research of Orr, but a charismatic leader? Nah.

I agree that the Personal Story was really more like a hundred tiny, forgettable interactions. Contrast that with the missions in GW1, which were much more epic, and often reached a climactic ending within each mission. You had to get through enemies, sometimes put together pieces of a puzzle, sometimes last through waves of enemies, sometimes fight a boss at the end. Sound familiar? All those things happen in GW2, but they happen in small doses, and they happen over and over and over. In GW1, each mission was massive, distinct, and unique. I only played through Prophecies maybe twice in its entirety, but I remember every mission, because they were all unique. And that was one of the keys in their epic reputation.

Yeah, I really miss those missions. They felt really dynamic and some of them were actually challenging.

In the long run Traehern makes sense because different folks are going to be driving the fight against different dragons. He makes alot of good character appearances on the guardian sylvari path at least. He’s a bit generic of a hero but sylvari are culture noobs eh?

More importantly, Zhaitan is all up in our business. The Grove is swarmed with undead more than most places. If Zhaitan is the first global enemy, you might also see that means Traehern as the first ‘hero’ that wont matter much anymore.

Eventually the meta-event in orr is probably going to change into a settlement and someone else will take up the hero mantle against other dragons. At least I’d wager a gold on it.

Along the lines of OP; I’d love to see more character development in any form. No idea what would be a realistic expectation but it’s a good thought.

Welcome to MMOs where you need to share the spotlight with 3 million other “heroes”.

Welcome to MMOs where you need to share the spotlight with 3 million other “heroes”.

Well, that’s both true and false.

It’s true in that, yes, 3 million other heroes will save the innocent villagers from the rampaging bears. No way around that.

But on the other hand, it’s called “Personal Story” for a reason. It’s supposed to be about you, focused on what you’re working towards, etc.

SWTOR’s personal story was an excellent example of this. It was about you and your allies/enemies and….well, your story. Not someone else’s story. Your story.

Bovinity.8610:

Welcome to MMOs where you need to share the spotlight with 3 million other “heroes”.

Well, that’s both true and false.

It’s true in that, yes, 3 million other heroes will save the innocent villagers from the rampaging bears. No way around that.

But on the other hand, it’s called “Personal Story” for a reason. It’s supposed to be about you, focused on what you’re working towards, etc.

SWTOR’s personal story was an excellent example of this. It was about you and your allies/enemies and….well, your story. Not someone else’s story. Your story.

And yet if you want to have meaningful, world changing choices, you cannot have it for everyone in an MMO, as you can have in a single-player RPG.

Let us please not turn this into another Trahearne-bashing thread. Even if Anet gave in to all the haters and senselessly murdered Trahearne, Destiny’s Edge and anyone else of any importance in some horrible way, there still would not be any room for our own characters in the game’s storytelling as it is. The spotlight will remain exclusively on the NPCs as long as our characters are not allowed to be characters and thus remain unable to carry or a story.

@Tom Gore: sure you can. Yes, you have to ignore the fact that tens of thousands of other people are playing the same story and that your progress in the world isn’t saved/visible in the way it might be in a single-player game (outside of instanced content), but that doesn’t mean it’s not possible. Nor does it mean you’re competing with them in any way. It’s really not too different from knowing that thousands of people play the same single-player game, which doesn’t influence me, my choices and my enjoyment either.

That’s a quite a bit of ignoring right there. When I want to purely imagine stuff I’ll rather play PnP.

And yet if you want to have meaningful, world changing choices, you cannot have it for everyone in an MMO, as you can have in a single-player RPG.

Well yeah, but that wasn’t really what I was talking about at all.