PoF Centaurs?

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: Amaimon.7823

Amaimon.7823

(Side topic: when will we get a forum branch like Heart of Thorns?)

main topic>

Centaurs, Elona had it’s own genetic strain. in GW1 these were big competers on the land.
Most interestingly was how they distinquished themselves from the tyrian centaur simply by being more.. intelligent? social? communicative, whatever, they listened to reason, could be talked with, not brutes who attacked everything on sight. They also resembled Gazelles because.. desert.

Anyway, I haven’t seen any footage of them yet, so I was wondering how anet will reintroduce them, or how they will justify their absence.

Attachments:

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

I guess we will just have to wait and see. =)

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: Lord Trejgon.2809

Lord Trejgon.2809

you mean those guys whom started their relationship with PC via blackmailing them into helping freeing their kin from kournans slavery?

well last time I checked in GWN main are of residence of thsoe tribes was turai’s procession which…


according to leaked maps is not a part of this expansion

but good call, I’ve already manage to forget about these…. guys

“-Shield is meant to be broken!”
“-and on this occasion I keep mine plate armors”
discussion about offensive/deffensive playstyles

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: Amaimon.7823

Amaimon.7823

I mean, if Palawa Joko returns, these guys oughta return as well, right?
IIRC, Palawa Joko actually found the centaurs very good workers and resilient fighters, bit more like kenghis khan, why kill a tough enemy when you can enslave them?

I mean, true, we didn’t start on the best of terms in nightfall, but then again, they were a race trying to break out of slavery, there wasn’t really a ‘nice alternative’

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: Lord Trejgon.2809

Lord Trejgon.2809

I mean, if Palawa Joko returns, these guys oughta return as well, right?
IIRC, Palawa Joko actually found the centaurs very good workers and resilient fighters, bit more like kenghis khan, why kill a tough enemy when you can enslave them?

I mean, true, we didn’t start on the best of terms in nightfall, but then again, they were a race trying to break out of slavery, there wasn’t really a ‘nice alternative’

Palawa, kournans, pretty much everyone who could have seemed them as such and was trying to bend them to their will [but then why enslave when you can convince them to ally with yourself?]

the main difference between Joko here and those centaurs is that Jokos last known capital was waaaaaaaaaaaaay up there to the north.

although their reappearance is a distinct possibility as quite likely turais procession is now a kinda…. dry. so they could relocate with their tribes towards places with better access to water….

as for the blackmail thing – actually don’t get me wrong – I loved how they have “got us” right at the very beginnign into helping them – it ain’t yer usuall friendly guy calling goodie neighbour to help him – that was smart guys enforcing neightbour that would otherwise not care into caring about his stuff – and handed the case so well that frankly their krytan cousins could only envy their cunning in dealing with things.

and then if in later living story we go any south from expac area we are pretty much bound to either meet them or learn what happened with them – there is no doubt from me on that part.

“-Shield is meant to be broken!”
“-and on this occasion I keep mine plate armors”
discussion about offensive/deffensive playstyles

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: Jokubas.4265

Jokubas.4265

My memories of the centaur in Nightfall is something that has disappointed me in GW2 (although I’ll admit I don’t remember the specifics very well, and I never knew the lore that well).

It’s always bugged me that the centaur in GW2 are just portrayed as beasts that may be able to talk, but only can say horrible things and no one is treated as bad for hating them all back. In Nightfall, I felt like it examined how completely unfair that idea was, but also how that would make the centaur understandably bitter.

I kinda held out hope that an Elona expansion would add playable centaur (they’d require some special stuff, but I really want a company to meet that challenge; centaur used to be a core fantasy race but it seems game design limitations have made them disappear outside of the occasional generic enemy), but I really hope we at least see them at all and get more characterization than “horrible people it’s okay to kill.”

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: Amaimon.7823

Amaimon.7823

My memories of the centaur in Nightfall is something that has disappointed me in GW2 (although I’ll admit I don’t remember the specifics very well, and I never knew the lore that well).

It’s always bugged me that the centaur in GW2 are just portrayed as beasts that may be able to talk, but only can say horrible things and no one is treated as bad for hating them all back. In Nightfall, I felt like it examined how completely unfair that idea was, but also how that would make the centaur understandably bitter.

I kinda held out hope that an Elona expansion would add playable centaur (they’d require some special stuff, but I really want a company to meet that challenge; centaur used to be a core fantasy race but it seems game design limitations have made them disappear outside of the occasional generic enemy), but I really hope we at least see them at all and get more characterization than “horrible people it’s okay to kill.”

But those are actually different tribes. We know for a fact that maguuman, shiverpeak/north-krytan, and elonian centaurs are different in both design and culture. The centaurs we meet in gw2 are Modniir, and distinct from the elonian centaurs. They are all primal in nature, but the maguuman and elonian seem to have developed a great culture, whilst the Modniir learned they could just take what they want with brute force

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Lets first make sure Junundu will be part of pof and then we can discuss the possibility of horse cows.

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: Torolan.5816

Torolan.5816

Contrary to the Asura, the centaurs in ls2 seemed indeed quite civilized and welcoming to me.
If Faolain had not blown it, I am pretty sure that Centaurs and Sylvari in general could come to terms of peace rather quickly, and Norn could come to see them as strong and honorable opponents.

Humans, Dwarfs, Krait and Charr(Asura are a plague in itself, but not a plague for Tyria^^) are the real plague of Tyria. Not Centaurs, Hylek, Ogres, or Dredge who are all more or less the victims of other races powergrabs.
I felt pretty bad after my first invasion of Harathi to be honest, it is pretty clear that this is a Centaur homeland and we are executing a Cavalry style like punishment ride on the natives .

*The Charr invaded human lands and from all sources about their upbringing appear to be largely a ragtag band of socialist grassroot militias united under the flag of the strongest militia leader. Highly aggressive and dismissive of strangers despite being the invaders for the largest part of their story in GW2. Basically the clans from Battletech if you are looking for a neutral example or the SS in the latest war days for an evil counterpart.
*Dwarfs enslaved the dredge and made a mess out of the shiverpeak mountains.
*Krait are slavers, the worst kind of intelligent life if you ask me.
*Humans spread like a plague over Tyria. Everywhere they went they got their butts handed to them basically, so now they are back at square one and have to hold to the few stretches of land they officially control. The probably best nation of humans is controlled by pirates of all people, although pirates came closest to democracy in the age of the great seafarers.

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Palawa Joko hated the centaurs. He enjoyed enslaving and turning them more than humans. The Velderunners was the last of the Elonian centaurs due to Varesh Ossa’s own enslavement, and the Losaru were in central/northern Crystal Desert (now Crystal Oasis’ western half). Both are well within Joko’s reach.

However, the former seems to be outside of PoF areas (not even on the world map if I’m correct) while we got no hints to the latter in the demo – doesn’t exclude them, that said. Hopefully the Losaru are not driven to extinction due to their human-eating ways.

But those are actually different tribes. We know for a fact that maguuman, shiverpeak/north-krytan, and elonian centaurs are different in both design and culture. The centaurs we meet in gw2 are Modniir, and distinct from the elonian centaurs. They are all primal in nature, but the maguuman and elonian seem to have developed a great culture, whilst the Modniir learned they could just take what they want with brute force

There are six centaur tribes known to us: Losaru (Crystal Desert), Velderunner (Kourna), Maguuma (Maguuma Wastes; formerly Maguuma Jungle), Harathi (formerly Maguuma – has schismed since gw1’s time), Modniir (formerly Shiverpeak), and Tamini (not seen in GW1, from Woodland Cascades).

All six tribes are cultured and intelligent. But four of them (Losaru, Modniir, Tamini, and Harathi) hate humans – why Losaru hate humans is unclear, but Modniir, Tamini, and Harathi were all pushed out of their homelands by Krytans, and later on Modniir were almost wiped out by norn and humans in Eye of the North (leading to further hatred). The long-lasting war with humans have devolved some of that culture, particularly for the Modniir (they’ve become less religious and more bloodthirsty).

So it isn’t that they don’t have communication – rather, they just don’t bother with it due to wartimes (we actually see some Modniir and Harathi centaurs being communicative with the Lionguard – Outcast Quinivi (sp?) and a negotiator in one of Kessex Hills’ havens respectively).

Humans, Dwarfs, Krait and Charr(Asura are a plague in itself, but not a plague for Tyria^^) are the real plague of Tyria. Not Centaurs, Hylek, Ogres, or Dredge who are all more or less the victims of other races powergrabs.

I disagree. Ogres are invaders, the instigators, not humans or charr in that case – this is 100% the case, as they’re taking advantage of the charr-human peace negotiations (and before then, they were assaulting both human and charr controlled Ascalon for some time). And dredge, while a dark past of enslavement, have become instigators in their own right. So they are not exempt from their own deeds.

Dwarves as a whole were not bad either – only the Stone Summit were. But that’s just to show that no race is fully good or fully evil. They also never made a mess of the Shiverpeaks – not sure where you got that from.

Humans and charr definitely had their own past of darkness but it seems to have, well, past by now. (Side note: Charr took no territory of humans that wasn’t their first – granted, Ascalon seemed to have been dwarven before it was charr by all indication, and only charr for less than a generation, though no direct statement on the matter was ever said).

Humans spread like a plague over Tyria. Everywhere they went they got their butts handed to them basically, so now they are back at square one and have to hold to the few stretches of land they officially control. The probably best nation of humans is controlled by pirates of all people, although pirates came closest to democracy in the age of the great seafarers.

Just want to say: humans only invaded others’ territories in the case of Ascalon and Kryta. At least initially.

Orr had no prior known inhabitants, neither did Istan or Vabbi. Cantha did not either – though Shing Jea did so shame on them there – and the humans there got alone very well with naga (the only other sapient species aside from tengu) until the Jade Wind turning them hostile (so thanks to Shiro/Abaddon for that one!). Kourna did have centaurs, however until Joko and Varesh the humans and centaurs there lived in relative peaceful terms – and Joko, at least, was a threat to both humans and centaurs (living that is). Ascalon was taken from the conquering charr, so I wouldn’t label that as bad – arguably bad would be not giving it back to the prior inhabitants (super-primitive grawl and dwarves).

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: Amaimon.7823

Amaimon.7823

On a side note, Cantha did.
The Naga, kappa and Tengu were driven away to make room for Kaineng.
The wardens desperately prevent them from taking everything.
The Naga were originally ‘neutral’ but got caught between the Jade Wind and the xenophobic Canthan. The few survivors joined or become the Krait. But with the melting of the Jade Sea the kinder Naga may return.

I honestly hope we’ll get to see them again. Naga are among may favourite fantasy races (the snake kind, not the human kind)

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Naga

(edited by Amaimon.7823)

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: Torolan.5816

Torolan.5816

Dredge were liberated pretty recently(200+ years is not that long for a race) and they already have a schism faction to escape from the oppression they had to endure by, learned from and kept on using after the dwarves vanished. They are probably the most victimized yet still the most non-threatening minor race for others because they operate mostly underground, and where they don´t operate underground primarily clash with members of the priory who are searching for dwarfen relics, aka grave robbers. I don´t want to put them on a pedestral, they are evil enough, but especially these guys have a reason to be bitter.

The Stone Summit pretty much blocked refugees from reaching Lions Arch after Ascalon City was as good as sacked. Not because they needed to do it, just because for the heck of it and maybe as a last battlecry for their deceasing empire. i have to admit my memories fail me for the exact location where this happened, but I have the far Shiverpeaks in mind for that Blockade.

The territory held by hostile Ogre forces is rather small. They are either really bad at invading, hold places undiscovered yet or have been thrown out of territory they once controlled. HoT ogres are pretty helpful and friendly. 2 types of ogres maybe?

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

On a side note, Cantha did.
The Naga, kappa and Tengu were driven away to make room for Kaineng.
The wardens desperately prevent them from taking everything.
The Naga were originally ‘neutral’ but got caught between the Jade Wind and the xenophobic Canthan. The few survivors joined or become the Krait. But with the melting of the Jade Sea the kinder Naga may return.

I honestly hope we’ll get to see them again. Naga are among may favourite fantasy races (the snake kind, not the human kind)

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Naga

False. Firstly, kappa are not a civilized group – they’re like wolves, bears, rabbits; just wildlife creatures.

Secondly, there is zero recorded hostility between naga and Canthans until the Jade Wind. In fact, the two being in peace is stressed as part of naga lore as you link to. To quote the Factions manual, the naga are “water-dwelling creatures related to sea snakes which evolved a culture at peace with humans”.

In regards to hostility grown from races being “driven away to make room for Kaineng” (which isn’t even accurate – Kaineng is just one city in the empire, and no other cultured race lived where that city now is; only wildlife would have been driven out) was the tengu, who were living in peace in Shing Jea Island before humans spread there.

They are probably the most victimized yet still the most non-threatening minor race for others because they operate mostly underground, and where they don´t operate underground primarily clash with members of the priory who are searching for dwarfen relics, aka grave robbers. I don´t want to put them on a pedestral, they are evil enough, but especially these guys have a reason to be bitter.

Uh, I don’t know where you get the “non-threatening for others because they operate mostly underground” – if you do any event involving dredge, they are threatening because they are not remaining underground. They’re trying to reach the surface and take land by force – whether they’re dealing with Priory, norn, or kodan. One kodan comments on the dredge being bad because they’re “pulling an asura” (reaching for surface territory ignoring the potential cost of others) and anothe does the same because they’re mining beyond their needs without replenishing wildlife.

The Stone Summit pretty much blocked refugees from reaching Lions Arch after Ascalon City was as good as sacked. Not because they needed to do it, just because for the heck of it and maybe as a last battlecry for their deceasing empire. i have to admit my memories fail me for the exact location where this happened, but I have the far Shiverpeaks in mind for that Blockade.

The Stone Summit were not “decreasing” nor did they have an empire. They were a rebellious group of dwarves creating a civil war that’s only lasted a few decades/century tops (as it was founded by Jalis’ cousin who wanted power). Their only “death cry” was in Eye of the North, after their leader and their main base were destroyed.

The Far Shiverpeaks was never where Ascalonians went to flee into Kryta, btw. You’re merging two separate events entirely – the events of early Prophecies with the side-quests of Eye of the North.

The territory held by hostile Ogre forces is rather small. They are either really bad at invading, hold places undiscovered yet or have been thrown out of territory they once controlled. HoT ogres are pretty helpful and friendly. 2 types of ogres maybe?

Rather than being bad at invading, they’ve been blocked off by the Dragonbrand. Some have since become friendlier (like those in the PS), while others actively fight Ebonhawke forces.

The HoT ogres come from one of the friendlier invading ogres. Particularly, they are the same exact tribe that is met in the personal story for norn/charr who choose to aide the ogres against the Dragonbrand.

But the ogre’s main territories is in the Blazeridge Mountains, outside of the explorable zones.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: Amaimon.7823

Amaimon.7823

@Konig, i wasnt entirely clear, apologies.

I didnt mean the naga were hostile prior to the jade wind.
But the name kaineng isnt quite accurate as I meant the entirety of the city-state. Its literally one big city thats covering the westcoast like a fungus. I know kaineng is the capital area in the north.
I think the southern region was called Bukdek?

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

The “one big city” is actually called Kaineng City, grown so large due to refugee influx after the Jade Wind. Bukdek Byway was just a street/walkway of sorts from Kaineng Center (a plaza and merchant square) towards other squares and docks (Vizunah Square and Kaineng Docks for example).

There were two or three other cities based on the world map, in Cantha.

But again – the naga were never pushed out to make Kaineng City (or any other city), nor were the tengu best we know. The tengu mostly lived on Shing Jea Island, though some did live on the mainland. Some of those did live in the city but they were not “forced out” of their lands.

Should also be noted that before the Jade Wind and the refugee influx that caused (something that humans should not be blamed for, since it was the deed of Shiro being manipulated by demons and fallen gods), most of northern Cantha was still proper landscapes. Take Zin Ku Corridor for example, described as a humble hill before the Jade Wind, but after became a “dark, humid, and smelly corridor”.

The same event that caused naga, warden, and dragon to go crazy in Cantha also forced the Empire to drastically expand their housing and capital city. Despite that, such events did not force out any cultured, civilized race. Any non-human race that might have lived there, joined the city to all our knowledge.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: Amaimon.7823

Amaimon.7823

The “one big city” is actually called Kaineng City, grown so large due to refugee influx after the Jade Wind. Bukdek Byway was just a street/walkway of sorts from Kaineng Center (a plaza and merchant square) towards other squares and docks (Vizunah Square and Kaineng Docks for example).

There were two or three other cities based on the world map, in Cantha.

But again – the naga were never pushed out to make Kaineng City (or any other city), nor were the tengu best we know. The tengu mostly lived on Shing Jea Island, though some did live on the mainland. Some of those did live in the city but they were not “forced out” of their lands.

Should also be noted that before the Jade Wind and the refugee influx that caused (something that humans should not be blamed for, since it was the deed of Shiro being manipulated by demons and fallen gods), most of northern Cantha was still proper landscapes. Take Zin Ku Corridor for example, described as a humble hill before the Jade Wind, but after became a “dark, humid, and smelly corridor”.

The same event that caused naga, warden, and dragon to go crazy in Cantha also forced the Empire to drastically expand their housing and capital city. Despite that, such events did not force out any cultured, civilized race. Any non-human race that might have lived there, joined the city to all our knowledge.

That last sentence seems strange to me, considering the whole xenophobic society was such a big thing in Cantha. It started with plagued humans, but after a while the ministry of purity started killing everyone and everything that wasn’t a registered human citizen (and even that wasn’t a guarantee of you lived in the slums)

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

You’re mixing two events – three actually, given your prior post – talking initially about when Cantha established itself versus a centuries later event. The Ministry of Purity didn’t exist until after Factions – before then, there was little to no xenophobia in Canthan humans (those who were, were a vast minority).

The whole discussion to this point – in the topic of Cantha – had been about when humans in Cantha settled the land and whether or not they pushed other races out of theirs. The events following the Jade Wind (prior post) and the events following Factions/Winds of Change (recent post) are both centuries after they had settled Cantha.

Further, you cannot really blame humanity as a whole for the actions of a single (albeit large) group.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497

Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497

Somewhere in the distance of the crystal desert… you see a human moving at full sprint…






I CAN OUTRUN A CENTAUR!

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: sorudo.9054

sorudo.9054

since this is more crystal desert and not really elona i doubt there are any centaurs at all there, you are more likely able to find the forgotten and ancient spirits.

PoF Centaurs?

in Living World

Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.