Guild Wars 2

MithranArkanere.8957:

That sword belonged to Adelbern.

Rurik’s sword is broken. You need to fix that one first.

Ruriks sword was Sohothin (Was left on Ring of Fire islands, perhaps Rytlock travelled there at some point and found it, since heroes of the past were in a hurry to stop the lich, then hurry to escape the erupting volcano…), while Adelberns was Magdaer.

Magdaer was broken when Foefire was unleashed.

Perhaps you should play Ascalonian Catacombs story once more.

Frosch.7809:

Serophous.9085:

Don’t forget that the charr occupied ascalon before the humans. I mean, that was the whole reason they started the in gw1, to take back their land once they had their own ‘gods’

That the Charr “only” wanted Ascalon back is GW2 lore, i think one needs to differentiate between the games here or see it as the Charr’s subjective point of view as of “today”/GW2 time.

In GW1 they wanted to eradicate the “infestation” that was humanity for them. The driving force for this may have been the shamans or the Titans, but the Charr went on to Orr and Kryta after the Searing, they did not stop in Ascalon.

And originally the Charr came from east of the Blazeridge mountains and Ascalon was not their homeland. If one argues that Ascalon became their homeland during the time they lived there then it became human land during the thousand years that humanity lived there as well.

Or one can take the Charr’s approach and say that the forceful expulsion of the Charr from Ascalon by humanity justifies the Charr’s actions a thousand years later, which i find to be unacceptable.

On topic, i am glad that Rytlock failed. He should end up in the Realm of Torment, if any of it still exists, but that’s just my opinion. I assume he failed because he was neither at the “right” place, which is most likely the heart of the Foefire, nor was he the “right” person to succeed. I do not find it to be logical that a Charr can lift the curse, but we do not even know where the “Prophecy” how to lift the curse came to be.

I would not be surprised if Rytlock would try to find Prince Rurik, to whom Sohothin may have gone. Entering the Hall of Heroes should be impossible for Rytlock though.

Maybe the whole situation is connected to how Rytlock got Sohothin, it feels liek there is something more to it (if it isn’t simply a bad conscience that makes him refuse to tell how he got it). No matter how he got it, Sohothin is a human heirloom and does not belong to a Charr. Even more so if he simply plundered it from somewhere.

After bringing humanity to Tyria, the human gods drove the humans to war with other races, only Melandru didn’t like it and drove her followers to communicate with them.
Quite unjustified move by the Six gods in general…

Also you should take into account, that most of the manuscripts and written lore in GW1 were based on Humanity’s view. They took no views from other races…
Alot of the information were over time told by other races, showing the true origins of many of the human “victorious stories”.

Ascalon was very likely Charr lands before.

Example: Bloodstones weren’t created by six human gods either, it was created by the Seers to combat the dragons hunger for the ancient races…
Humans just wrote it off as theirs…

Who knows, many powerful artifacts created by the ancient races had fallen to human hands, during their god driven genocidal wars, which then were then written off as their own artifacts, regardless of the true origin.

Similarily, as humans had massive army under their command, united by the six gods who drove them to war against anything else on Tyria, the Shamans very likely use their massive army of united Charr into other places, as the Shamans were quite the liars and deceivers. There’s no difference on humanity, they weren’t very virtuous themselves, easily broken into other cults over time…

So Humans and their gods can all rot for eternity in Realm of Torment…

Ramethzero.3785:

I would love to know what about Rytlocke has given you the impression that he is as soft and fluffy as a common housecat.

That drill sergeant tough guy persona is just an act to keep us from knowing the warm and fuzzy Rytlock underneath.

Darkorical.9213:

“Underworld” Dun DUN DUN!

Miami?

RyuDragnier.9476:

I have a sneaking suspicion we need Rurik himself to fix this, and the sword was fully aware of that, opening a portal to the underworld because it is trying to return to its rightful owner. So within the next few weeks we will travel there ourselves to get Rytlock back, only to meet Rurik, who will probably mention the PC’s similarities to the GW1 PC, and help us. Of course this also means we have to probably make a deal with Grenth to get this done, and there’s no telling what he’ll want in exchange.

What would be better than to have all of the Ascalonian souls that have eluded him for a few lifetimes?

There’s no reason Rytlock couldn’t get to the Hall of Heroes – it’s not unique to humans. Norn at least can go there as well.

Regarding Ascalon’s history:

First, I want to point out that both Melandru and Dwayna wanted peace. Balthazar sought conquest, and Abaddon is implied to as well. The opinions of Lyssa, Dhuum and Grenth are not recorded.

Second, it’s mentioned in the Grawl blog article, which is transcribed here, that Ascalon was originally the homeland of the grawl, who were enslaved and driven out by the charr (not the same individuals suffering both, of course). The Ecology of the Charr also talks about the charr having expanded “down into the lands east of the Shiverpeak Mountains” – namely, Ascalon.

Neither side has the historical moral high ground when it comes to the land now known as Ascalon. Presently, the charr are the ones actually living there, so they have priority – but losing a war over a thousand years ago did not give the charr any moral right to launch the Searing and invade the human kingdoms.

However, lands that are currently rendered uninhabitable by ghosts remain, well, unoccupied land, and should the ghosts be removed could well be offered back to a modern kingdom of Ascalon as part of the peace settlement without having to displace anyone. On the other hand, such a solution may simply be impractical for political and geographical reasons.

CureForLiving.5360:

I also though they could add new ascalonian maps that show this cleansing, much like how I always wanted Anet to add new Orrian maps that also depicted it being cleansed (new maps that progressively have less Risen and more green meadows). Although unlike Orr (which is only half explorable) I don’t see a lot of extra room for new maps in Ascalon http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Tyria_map_with_zones.jpg

Wizard’s Folly and much of Regent Valley are still off the map.

Why did Rytlock fail (if he actually did fail)? He didn’t bother to get Dougal Keane involved. I mean, come on, the guy is just standing around in LA…huge oversight to not bring him into a storyline about Ascalon, the Foefire, ghosts, and old relics.

MithranArkanere.8957:

RyuDragnier.9476:

I have a sneaking suspicion we need Rurik himself to fix this, and the sword was fully aware of that, opening a portal to the underworld because it is trying to return to its rightful owner. So within the next few weeks we will travel there ourselves to get Rytlock back, only to meet Rurik, who will probably mention the PC’s similarities to the GW1 PC, and help us. Of course this also means we have to probably make a deal with Grenth to get this done, and there’s no telling what he’ll want in exchange.

That sword belonged to Adelbern.

Rurik’s sword is broken. You need to fix that one first.

As for Grenth, considering all old resurrection skills no longer work and you need long and complicated rituals to resurrect something (eg. Baelfire), it’s likely that Grenth is no longer in the Underworld and Dhuum got free and is actively preventing resurrections again.

Dhuum was known for strictly forbidding resurrection, while Grenth would allow them when it people died “before their time”.

That’s why players no longer ‘resurrect’ no matter how much they ask “rez plz” while defeated under Tequatl’s left foot. Players never die. Only NPCs do, and only if you can’t use a revive skill on them.

A: Rurik’s sword is still intact. It’s what Rytlock has. We just don’t know exactly how he got it.
B: Dhuum was also very, very much anti-undead. Necromancers are still summoning minions.

Grenth is still around, one of his reapers asks you in PS to recover a stolen soul (of a high priest) for him.

I totes had more than enough time to go in to the portal after rytlock and sohotin went under. Before it reclosed. Anet and buggy pathing ftl! Bug report inc lol jk but no srsly had enough time to go after them.

I appreciate your post, and i agree with it except for one part, and i think you can guess which one that is.

draxynnic.3719:

There’s no reason Rytlock couldn’t get to the Hall of Heroes – it’s not unique to humans. Norn at least can go there as well.

“Jora mentions that the Norn believe that the bravest heroes go to a place called the "Hall of Spirits””, i assume that you refer to this. First, the “Hall of Spirits” may not be the Hall of Heroes (unless there is proof that it is?).

Second, i assume that the Hall of Heroes no longer hosts “battles among the living” and is therefore reserved for those that are both heroes “whose deeds in life were legendary enough to be known across multiple worlds”, and dead. And that is where Rytlock does not qualify (i actually do not think he qualifies as a legendary hero whose fame is known across several worlds either. He would need a severe change in attitude for that.).

I also assume that the powers who grant entry to the Hall are the human gods or their servants (the Envoys come to my mind) – and frankly i doubt that they let a Charr in, unless the mechanisms that grant entry are no longer in place, whatever those were.

Rytlock may knock at the gate of the Hall should he manage to find it – but it will not be his decision to grant him entry, of that i am sure. And that he would be asked what makes him qualify.

Um, I don’t think any of the GW1 heroes are famous enough to be “Known across worlds.”

Where does that come from? Because it doesn’t make sense at ALL.

The line in the Prophecies Manuscripts does not say that, instead that they have to be legendary enough to be known by the gods (and note that we’re speaking from a human perspective here). It’s also worth noting that this section also talks about the spirits of unworthy dead being trapped in their rotting corpse forever, which we know not to be the case (unless Zhaitan or a powerful necromancer makes it so).

Descriptions of the Hall of Spirits make it sound very similar to the Hall of Heroes, and given the hall’s prominent placement in the Mists, while it’s possible that there are two of them, I doubt it. We also have evidence in GW1 that norn have access to the same Underworld as humans do, and it’s also worth noting that the norn regard the gods AS spirits.

The current status of the Hall of Heroes is unknown, but certainly, I think it’s fair to say that odds are a member of Destiny’s Edge is not going to be rejected on the basis of not being heroic enough, and I don’t think he’s done anything to personally earn the enmity of the gods. Fantasy racism may still come into play, but as long as the Hall doesn’t prove to be completely dominated by Ascalonians with grudges, then he’ll probably at least get a chance to say his piece.

Then he might get torn apart for displaying his trademark arrogance.

Kalavier.1097:

Um, I don’t think any of the GW1 heroes are famous enough to be “Known across worlds.”

Where does that come from? Because it doesn’t make sense at ALL.

I did not get my own copy of the Manuscripts to look into it but looked it up at the GW Wiki. The part about some souls having to rot in their corpses forever is obviously nonsense.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hall_of_Heroes

I interpret the part of “being known across worlds” as the gods, who dwell in another world, having taken notice of the deeds of an individuum. An act that would be known across worlds is the slaying of Abaddon for example – remember all the Forgotten and spirits that cheer for you in the Throne of Secrets area? I do believe that plenty of NPC’s from Guild Wars got entry into the hall.

I also think that it is likely that the Hall of Heroes and the Norn Hall of Spirits are one and the same, and that that is the case because the Norn see the human gods as spirits of the wild. And that is what makes me doubt that a Charr would be allowed in, because he does not acknowledge the human gods as having authority over him.

And yes, i do assume that “fantasy racism” exists here, although i would not call it such. Why should the gods, assuming it is them who grant entry, allow someone who sees himself as their enemy in? Even someone who helped kill an Elder Dragon. Remember that Rytlock was hanging around Ebonhawke before meeting Logan and was killing humans.

So, for comic relief, my own version of what will happen:

A battered Rytlock Brimstone knocks at the gate of the Hall of Heroes. After what seems to be an eternity a vision slit in the massive wooden gate opens and Rytlock can see some human eyes staring at him.

“We don’t buy anything” a dry female voice tells him.

“What?!”

The vision slit closes. Rytlock bangs against the gate.

The vision slit opens again: “What is it?” says the dry female voice.

“I want my sword back!”

“Password?”

“What password?!!” yells Rytlock.

“Since you do not seem to know the password, let me help you. It’s one of these.” A sheet of paper gets stuck out of the vision slit. Rytlock grasps it, unfolds it and reads:

A: I am attacking the darkness!
B: Logan is a pansy
C: Dwaynaaaaa!

“What is this?!!” Rytlock yells as he crumples the paper.

“That is not the correct answer.”

The vision slit closes. Rytlock furiously bangs against the gate. The vision slit opens yet again.

“My my, aren’t you persistant.”

“Are you making fun of me?!” Rytlock roars.

“You have to take the side entry. Go around the hall to the left.” The vision slit closes one final time.

Furiously Rytlock starts the long walk around the hall.

As he arrives at the side he reads a sign saying “Side entry this way. You are now entering area 1 The Underworld.”

Rytlock stares at a menagerie of Torment creatures, Dryders and Wurms staring back at him.

^I don’t think the gods would care too much that Rytlock was a charr. Charr legends believe (falsely) that Melandru created Tyria, so the charr acknowledge the power of the human gods. But as we know, the charr believe that everything can be killed, everything can be conquered, that nothing is immortal. I have no doubt the human gods would not care that a charr was in the Hall of Heroes, as anybody can be recognized as one if they meet the requirements, which the attempted slaying of one Elder Dragon and the successful slaying of another have met those. I do however expect us to see our Order mentors in there, they deserved it after Claw Island, and I expect to see Snaff there, he definitely deserves to be there.

Question: Why has Rytlock failed?
Answer: Because the plot said so.
It’s really a no brainer.

Serophous.9085:

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

videoboy.4162:

Rytlock didn’t expect his actions in the tomb to break the entire curse. His sole purpose of going into the tomb was to test his theory about the sword, before attempting to break the curse at its source.

While that would certainly make sense, it was never stated or implied. By his actions and words, he was intent upon ending the curse then and there, and I truly believe he was trying to do so.

I’m actually believing Rytlock had the wrong item and chant for the ritual. He really need a blowfish and say “Yo Mo Gui Gwai Fai Di Zao…”

I love you.

sharkstein.2109:

Question: Why has Rytlock failed?
Answer: Because the plot said so.
It’s really a no brainer.

It’s like I always say, “Were Nedd smart to begin with, Game of Thrones would be a pointless story.”

To quote the great Joel Rosenberg:

‘“Legend” means, basically, “bullkitten.”’

Eroiqua.5891:

Why did Rytlock fail (if he actually did fail)? He didn’t bother to get Dougal Keane involved. I mean, come on, the guy is just standing around in LA…huge oversight to not bring him into a storyline about Ascalon, the Foefire, ghosts, and old relics.

YES! 1000x over yes.

This character is so cool. I wonder if we get him involved with the Biconics story some.
Heck, I’ve love to see him as a regular character along with some of his’ other allies. No spoilers.

FrostSpectre.4198:

After bringing humanity to Tyria, the human gods drove the humans to war with other races, only Melandru didn’t like it and drove her followers to communicate with them.

Quite unjustified move by the Six gods in general…

Also you should take into account, that most of the manuscripts and written lore in GW1 were based on Humanity’s view. They took no views from other races…
Alot of the information were over time told by other races, showing the true origins of many of the human “victorious stories”.

Ascalon was very likely Charr lands before.

Example: Bloodstones weren’t created by six human gods either, it was created by the Seers to combat the dragons hunger for the ancient races…
Humans just wrote it off as theirs…

Who knows, many powerful artifacts created by the ancient races had fallen to human hands, during their god driven genocidal wars, which then were then written off as their own artifacts, regardless of the true origin.

Similarily, as humans had massive army under their command, united by the six gods who drove them to war against anything else on Tyria, the Shamans very likely use their massive army of united Charr into other places, as the Shamans were quite the liars and deceivers. There’s no difference on humanity, they weren’t very virtuous themselves, easily broken into other cults over time…

So Humans and their gods can all rot for eternity in Realm of Torment…

It’s probably easier to understand the disconnect if you understand the evolution of the Guild Wars narrative over the years.

For starters, GW1 wasn’t specifically written in a “human” point of view. Meaning, they didn’t write the supplementary lore thinking “This is what we’ll say about Tyria according to humanity” but rather “This is what we’ll say about Tyria.” In other words, it was just the writers explaining stuff for us. That humans were the only playable race at the time is irrelevant, most of it wasn’t written in a 1st-person point-of-view. The lack of directly specifying that is something GW2 has largely taken advantage of…for obvious reasons.

Everyone here knows that GW2 lore is meant to expand upon the lore of GW1, and they generally did a good job with that overall if you’re mainly concerned with connecting dots. But when two separate narratives, written by two separate people(s), don’t exactly add up, it’s a disservice to simply assume the most recent takes precedence…that’s not how plot sequels are supposed to work.

So, the only part you wrote up above that was true is the part about Ascalon used to be Charr territory. I say “was” because pretty much everything you wrote is true now (except for the genocidal god stuff, no idea where that comes from). Meaning, it’s true for GW2, but not for GW1.

Make sense?

Frosch.7809:

I appreciate your post, and i agree with it except for one part, and i think you can guess which one that is.

draxynnic.3719:

There’s no reason Rytlock couldn’t get to the Hall of Heroes – it’s not unique to humans. Norn at least can go there as well.

“Jora mentions that the Norn believe that the bravest heroes go to a place called the "Hall of Spirits””, i assume that you refer to this. First, the “Hall of Spirits” may not be the Hall of Heroes (unless there is proof that it is?).

Well, we know from GW1 that Charr are allowed into other realms of the mists; For example their is Charr (and Grawl, and others) in the Realm of Torment in GW1, so it’s within reason they’d be allowed into other realms in the mists too, befitting of their character, and the Hall of Heroes would certainly make sense should they have a suitable character for it.

People talking about how Ascalon was originally Charr land and they should have it back always makes me wonder how people would feel if Native Americans set off a nuke in Washington DC.

KotCR.6024:

Well, we know from GW1 that Charr are allowed into other realms of the mists; For example their is Charr (and Grawl, and others) in the Realm of Torment in GW1

I would not say that anyone in the Realm of Torment (except for maybe the Forgotten) was “allowed in” – it was a place a soul was being sent to as punishment. We only see the ghosts of two Charr there, they are more the exception than the rule. I was surprised we did not see more GW1 Charr end up in the Realm of Torment, a lot of them qualified. It was never said where the souls of Charr go after their deaths (maybe they got no soul? …just kidding).

KotCR.6024:

so it’s within reason they’d be allowed into other realms in the mists too, befitting of their character, and the Hall of Heroes would certainly make sense should they have a suitable character for it.

Every area of the Mists from GW1 was restricted or had some condition to enter, and those who decided to grant entry were the gods. Unless they are gone from even the Mists i do not think they would allow non-believers into the Hall of Heroes.

And better not start a discussion about Rytlock’s character. Let’s just say our opinions most likely differ.