Guild Wars 2

In the spirit of open collaboration I think this is an important discussion to have. I know it has been brought up numerous, numerous times. However, I have not seen any topics so far evaluating the worth of the LS as an adequate replacement for any future expansions. So I’d thought I’d ask that question and hope there would be honest open feedback to maybe give the devs any new insight on to what the community thinks.

Anet has gone on record and said they are unsure if there will be expansions released in the traditional form and that LS is something they would like to explore. That has lead many of us to believe that the current iterations of LS are mini chunks of a larger expansion released to satisfy our wait time and to keep us interested in staying the game. That’s just an assumption, but a valid one in light of what has been told/released to us so far.

So, if all of this is indeed true, one has to wonder if after a year’s worth of LS content release has added up to the equivalent of an expansion (or close to it). I might be naive, because I am not a game developer, but I would have to imagine that the amount of time, money, and resources poured into this past year of LS updates and seriously detracted from any other developments ie an expansion.

So post your thoughts and keep them civil. I think it is obvious that many here on the forums and GW2guru forums and have posted their angst about Scarlett – I think that is something they are already well aware of. Which I think it would be well worth everyone’s interests to create an in game survey asking the community if they like the current LS. That would put to rest the idea that it is most of the community hating Scarlett or just a smaller more vocal group.

(TL/DR)
1. After playing through a year’s worth of LS updates, do you still feel like you want an expansion?

2. Does the sum of last year’s worth of LS updates feel like the equivalent of an expansion?

3. If no. 2 is yes: What features are missing from the LS updates that would make it feel more like a proper expansion?

The aspects of an expansion that we’ve not really had are changes to core gameplay mechanics, or significant changes to how you play the game. Does LS count as an expansion? No, but that doesn’t mean we need an expansion to get expansion quality content.

“No, but that doesn’t mean we need an expansion to get expansion quality content.”

It kind of does mean that though. We have yet to see them deliver expansion type quality material. On top of all this LS updates are not nearly tested enough. Each one seems to be as buggy or buggier than the last one.

When asked about LS and the story involved or general content you get told “well we developed that 4 months ago, it’s just that your seeing it now and we couldn’t change it in time”

I would consider the quality and differential quantity to be lacking from LS updates throughout the year.

Thy are in my opinion acceptable filler while waiting for an expansion but are by no means a replacement to an expansion. I hope AN eventually agrees with that but so far that doesn’t seem to be the case.

It feels like a very bare-bones, minimal expansion at most. The type of DLC expansion that’d go for $10 just to get a little more out of the game. Not the type of big, meaty expansion that completely reinvigorates the game.

A single, very small new zone. A single new universal skill, a small handful of new traits, no new profession skills. No new classes or races,. No new weapon types. Some bits of story here and there, a few very short story arcs, but no big new story arc or with any sort of concrete beginning – middle- end structure (yet). A small handful of new character customization options. A single (permanent) dungeon. Some new side-activities. No new mechanics to speak of.

I guess whether it “counts” as an expansion depends on how you define it. When I think of expansions, particularly for MMO’s, I think of the stuff mentioned above. A big, expansive, self-contained story arc in a large new area added onto the main game, with other additions that circle back and affect the main game in meaningful ways as well. OR, something that adds a couple of major new features / mechanics to the game, signifigantly altering it. So from my perspective… no. LS has not at all fulfilled an “expansion” worth of content.

Mind you, a year might be a little too short to expect such an expansion, considering they are still supporting the main game with balance changes, events (which I assume would happen even if an expansion was in the works) and such. So I’d say LS still has some time to fufill what it needs to equal a full expansion. Though not a lot. If it doesn’t pick up a lot in, I dunno, maybe 6 months, then I’ll start to really feel a proper expansion would really be the way to go.

Kythan Myr.4719:

1. After playing through a year’s worth of LS updates, do you still feel like you want an expansion?

2. Does the sum of last year’s worth of LS updates feel like the equivalent of an expansion?

3. If no. 2 is yes: What features are missing from the LS updates that would make it feel more like a proper expansion?

My answer is essentially No, a years worth of LS does not satisfy me in the way that an expansion would have.
An expansion adds more stuff so that overall you have a greater viariety of things to interact with when playing. While the LS is interesting and does keep the game feeling new and fresh, it rarely leaves behind permanent additions to the game. Which means that no matter how epic the LS is, it will never equate to the vastness of an expansion.

Honestly I think the LS should be toned down, it doesn’t need to be every month it could be every 2 or 3 months. Holiday/celebration LS’s are fun, like christmas and halloween. The story doesn’t even need to be massive or crazy, but just enough to keep the game feeling like it’s alive and moving.

Also if Anet announced that they were never going to do an expansion, and that instead they were only going to do the LS. I’d feel massively dissapointed, I think I would gradually lose interest in the game as well.
Being an explorer type gamer a game becomes boring to me when there is nothing left to explore. New skills, new classes and new maps are the best thing ever for me. I tend to play games until they break, die, become out of date, or the servers are closed. I like to try every possible conbination of things and explore every nook and cranny until there is nothing left to do. The LS doesn’t fulfill that desrie because a) it’s not actually new stuff, it’s just a story, and b) it’s not permanent so I don’t feel like I am able to explore at my lesiure. There is a kind of unspoken preassure in the LS to do it as fast as possible before it goes. And I really hate that.

If you’re going to add stuff and then take it out in such a frequent manner, you might as well use the public as your beta testers. Add things in and allow the public to play with them for a month, take them out and then put them back in when you’ve made changes.

I should also say that I still keep playing in the hope that I will one day get to explore Elona again (Nightfall was my favourite campaign) and that I will one day get to make a Tengu Ritulist. To be told those things are never going to happen in favour of a LS would make me so angry I’d probably stop palying.

No Living Story doesn’t even equal the greatness of one Guild Wars Beyond update

Not by a long shot. Take away the latest ‘update’ and you are essentially left with the same exact game that existed a year ago. Expansions add permanent things. The LS ‘updates’ do not.

No its not a expansion or any where near…

No new character classes
Only 1 new skill
Only 1 new zone and that does not feel as complete/well put together as all the other zones
No new dragons
Perhaps the best quality content we have had so far that is worthy of a expansion is Fractals

The LS does not give us ‘meaty’ content like you associate with a proper expansion…

Actually, we got stuff other games would deliver with expansions only.

Rework of achievements, finishers, the wallet.
New Maps for sPvP.
WXP and an slight rework on the borderlands in WvW.
Guildmissions, Laurels, new areas, new minigames.

I like the LS system minus Scarlet, it keeps me entertained but it does not feel as an expansion because it actually creates new characters and conflicts instead of expanding the established lore. I say the LS is a good replacement for the common patches but not for an expansion. I like wow style expansions that add a lot of content (races and maps being the ones I care more), I would like to see both LS and expansions on GW2 going ahead.

No, LS by no means equals an expansion. In an expansion the content is permanent and you have time to do it at your pace. Southsun is the only permanent new area so far. I do enjoy the LS most times but I wish they would do a yearly expansion along with it. LS is basically end game content meant to keep people logging in. I do think Anet will release an expansion at some point but with the 2 week content cycle I fear it might be a ways off still.

What makes everyone think that an actual expansion would be better than what we’ve got?

Looking at the Living Story, I feel that Anet is currently incapable of telling a good story with well-developed characters. And this is the root of many of GW2’s problems.

An expansion into Cantha or Elona would probably be just as bad, except the setting is Cantha/Elona instead of Tyria.

At this moment in time, I’d actually prefer a well done Living Story than Cantha/Elona as I feel there are yet lots of interesting stories to be told in the world we have right now.

You do not miss out on content with expansions and you can play at your own pace.

You miss out on content every 2 weeks with Living Story if you do not play enough within 2 weeks.

Not even remotely close. N-o-t e-v-e-n r-e-m-o-t-e-l-y.

I’m not sure anyone here realizes that the LS teams and the teams that do races, skills, traits , etc are 2 different kinds of teams. It has been stated by Anet. i have a feeling since the game is a little over a year old Anet has just been gettig the game set up and starting 2014 the good stuff will start showing up.

Personally I have mixed feeling about box expansions since some players would only be able to get them around birthdays or christmas and with free expansions that will happen along with the LS everyone will have access at the same time.

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

You do not miss out on content with expansions and you can play at your own pace.

You miss out on content every 2 weeks with Living Story if you do not play enough within 2 weeks.

Oh?
I have seen quite a few of those special “leading up to expansion” quest/story/event-lines that is only possible to ever do in a very short time before an expansion. Sure they are not technically part of the expansion, but they are very much there because of the expansion.

Most of the Living Story Achivements actually stays for a month. The latest one (before Fractals) have stayed for more than a month and seems to be staying at least one more week.
There have also been quite a bit of permanent stuff added via the Living Story, but for some reason people always seem to forget that.

Yes, putting all updates together from start of Living Story until now is very much enough to fulfill an expansion.

No, because if it’s not going to permanently be a part of the game then it can’t be weighed the same way as normal content.

That said, I do really love the LS stuff and think it’d be great if asura technology could be used to relive some of it for late arrivals or new players.

lordkrall.7241:

Yes, putting all updates together from start of Living Story until now is very much enough to fulfill an expansion.

You are right. The amount of content added can fulfill an expansion but only if you have played it all otherwise it is just an achievement panel which you will never complete.

An expansion gives every player the opportunity to play all the content even after 10 years while living story leaves here an there a few unrelated marks

“Yes, putting all updates together from start of Living Story until now is very much enough to fulfill an expansion.”

Most expansions I’ve ever bought or played had way more features and content then what we’ve gotten in the LS. My view might be skewed because most of the content is gone and you can currently not see it.

lordkrall.7241:

Yes, putting all updates together from start of Living Story until now is very much enough to fulfill an expansion.

I understand you like the living story and wish to speak on its behalf, but this I can’t accept. That would probably be the most disappointing expansion ever.

Traveller.7496:

I understand you like the living story and wish to speak on its behalf, but this I can’t accept. That would probably be the most disappointing expansion ever.

Major revamps of rewards
New dungeon system with 15 different parts.
Several new changed added to WvW
Complete revamp of most of the maps in WvW.
Account Wallet
Achievement revamp
Daily and monthy changes
Major changes to maps
Added map
Added events
Added JPs
Added mini-dungeons

All these things are permanent additions to the game. And I would say it is quite unusual for an expansion to involve all that and more. Sure they might add more raw area, but when it comes to actual content and features I haven’t really seen many expansions that tops that.

Just because most of the living story isn’t available right now doesn’t mean it’s bad. Limited time content makes it feel special and that the world really is moving forward. As was already said just because we get 2 week updates doesn’t mean we miss out on new skills and classes because different teams are working on them. Most people breeze through an expansion in 2 months and be bored for the other 10 while the living story encourages people to log in at least twice a month. Living story hasn’t been out a year yet and I personally like the living story better than I think I would an expansion.

Elbegast.6970:

Not by a long shot. Take away the latest ‘update’ and you are essentially left with the same exact game that existed a year ago. Expansions add permanent things. The LS ‘updates’ do not.

This. I’ve enjoyed a lot of the activities, loved some of them (so happy I can still Sanctum Sprint now and then). But if the content vanishes in a couple of weeks, the game has not truly expanded.

At the very least we should be able to go into the burned out shell of the Aether base behind the LA waterfall. Hop back in to the Dragon Bash arena. See scorch marks where sonic guns were wrecked. Etc. NPC’s should talk about the events that have happened. The world should -change-.

I’m not hopping up and down and demanding an expansion. I’m simply responding to the OP’s query. Whatever else the LS has been, however much fun it has given or whatever neat skins we’ve gotten (a lot! I love my rapier and Aether pistol, for instance), it is not an expansion.

ooh hell no. Imagine all the time they put in the LS that was removed again to be in the game in another permanent form!

lordkrall.7241:

Traveller.7496:

I understand you like the living story and wish to speak on its behalf, but this I can’t accept. That would probably be the most disappointing expansion ever.

All these things are permanent additions to the game. And I would say it is quite unusual for an expansion to involve all that and more. Sure they might add more raw area, but when it comes to actual content and features I haven’t really seen many expansions that tops that.

See, most of what you posted are revamps and updates to the core game. Expansions generally add something new. At this point I would consider a good GW2 expansion to add:

- Several new maps which are similar sized to original launch ones. Southsun is tiny! Maybe an expansion could deal with those named areas that are already on the map. Maguuma jungle exp with several new zones? Yes please. Plenty of room on the map over there. What are the major changes? Kessex Hills probably? Add large, open areas, ripe for exploration instead of small, action-packed combat areas!

- Big additions to core game. I would think at current time a major overhaul of the guild system would be such update. Guild halls, guild battles, player housing. Alliances. Updated Guild functionality to make management easier.

- New skills and weapon types for professions. First probably new options from existing ones.

- New playable race. I guess the Tengu are an obvious choice right now, they even have their very own starter zone available.

I’m considering an expansion as a big content pack like GW1 “expansions” (which were more or less standalone games). Fractals I will admit is a expansion-type addition, and account wallet is a good update.

But if we assume everything you mentioned was packed into one, added as permanent content and charged the same price as the original game, I wouldn’t be happy with what I got. Personally I feel frustrated because there’s so much fun GW lore and places to explore and instead we doodle around doing uninteresting stuff with new characters no one cares about and get Scarlet pushed to our faces from every direction. (Heck, if you think about it, the current LS as PS vol 2 would be even worse. It’s literally all about Scarlet.)

(sidenote: ANet pretty much painted themselves into a corner with the personal story demanding a status quo. That’s the reason we’re getting all these new characters and places, because nothing mentioned in the PS can change. )

No. Everything was temporary. They even botched their awesome new dungeons into short fractals!

Even the Tower of Nightmares, with its unique, new, open-world dungeon mechanics, is being removed. WHY!?

And the ONE reeeeally cool area they added, the Zephyrite Sanctum, was also removed…. With Champion Farming, this zone would have been amazing! Yet…. It was removed…

No, this is not an expansion worth of content. Outside the Fractals of the Mists and ascneded weapons, we’re kinda back to square one.

They could have brought up all of this in an expansion, yes, but it would have been a bad expansion like it is a bad LS now. The real problem is that they don’t use the existing opportunities:
- Maps: Crystal Desert, Maguuma Wastes, Far Shiverpeaks, Woodland Cascades, Ring of Fire, Blood Legion Homelands
- Races: Tengu, Dwarfs, Largos
- Dungeons: Underworld, Fissure of Woe (i would LOVE to see this, but in classic style please! make it huge and really hard!)
- Lore: Elder Dragons, bringing back dwarfs, floating castle, old races like Mursaat, Forgotten…
- fighting factions (instead of creating new ones): Nightmare Court, Inquest, Sons of Svanir, Flame Legion…

It’s not about adding new jumping puzzles or revamping something. The story needs to progress. It’s not enought to tell us that scarlet was behind the thaumanova reactor. Like always: Something happens and we don’t know why.

Honestly, this game has to do its next step.

Beside all of this i really hope they will give us cantha, janthir or elona, because one day we’ll just have enough of tyria.

Kain Francois.4328:

No. Everything was temporary. They even botched their awesome new dungeons into short fractals!

Even the Tower of Nightmares, with its unique, new, open-world dungeon mechanics, is being removed. WHY!?

And the ONE reeeeally cool area they added, the Zephyrite Sanctum, was also removed…. With Champion Farming, this zone would have been amazing! Yet…. It was removed…

No, this is not an expansion worth of content. Outside the Fractals of the Mists and ascneded weapons, we’re kinda back to square one.

I went on vacation to Jamaica once but I lost the souvenirs. Am I back to square one? The journey was fun. Like the living story we mostly just have memory of what happened but also the rewards and it builds on what will happen in the future.

Not even close.

I’d rather pay for an expansion than keep getting pressured to play living story content on their schedule. It doesn’t matter how “free” the content is if it’s not there for me to play it when I’m ready.

Clyan.1593:

They could have brought up all of this in an expansion, yes, but it would have been a bad expansion like it is a bad LS now. The real problem is that they don’t use the existing opportunities:
- Maps: Crystal Desert, Maguuma Wastes, Far Shiverpeaks, Woodland Cascades, Ring of Fire, Blood Legion Homelands
- Races: Tengu, Dwarfs, Largos
- Dungeons: Underworld, Fissure of Woe (i would LOVE to see this, but in classic style please! make it huge and really hard!)
- Lore: Elder Dragons, bringing back dwarfs, floating castle, old races like Mursaat, Forgotten…
- fighting factions (instead of creating new ones): Nightmare Court, Inquest, Sons of Svanir, Flame Legion…

It’s not about adding new jumping puzzles or revamping something. The story needs to progress. It’s not enought to tell us that scarlet was behind the thaumanova reactor. Like always: Something happens and we don’t know why.

Honestly, this game has to do its next step.

Beside all of this i really hope they will give us cantha, janthir or elona, because one day we’ll just have enough of tyria.

Wow, I could not have constructed a better list of things I want!!

It would be so nice if the focus was on those things that are already in game (lore-wise). I do appreciate the new lore because I don’t want a re-hash of old content. There has to be a balance, though. I feel the current direction of the LS has swung the pendulum too far to the side of “totally new lore”. It would be nice of that pendulum began to swing back to the more familiar.

Still waiting for new real skills not one or two flavor. Things are very stale atm…

Compare what living story accomplished in comparison to factions. Not much ehh?

1. Yes (although tbh, my lack of disposable funds lately do make me appreciate not forking out for an expansion…)

2. No.

The Living Story has been, essentially, equivalent to what the GW1 Live Team was doing between expansions and after Guild Wars Beyond started – a few new missions, streamlining of a number of supporting mechanics, alteration of the mobs of existing areas, and the occasional new area. It pales in comparison with the Eye of the North expansion, let alone the Factions and Nightfall campaigns.

What I’d be looking for as a bare minimum for an expansion is:

a) About 10 more skills for each profession. Let’s say one or two “new” weapons (which could be an existing weapon given to a profession that didn’t previously have it), five utilities, and a new heal skill and elite per profession. (Alteration of existing traits and skills does not apply – the GW1 Live Team engaged in much more significant overhauls of GW1 skills than anything we’ve seen in GW2 updates.)

b) More armour and weapon art. On the order of at least three new sets per armour class.

c) 4-5 new overworld zones, with a couple of dungeons. (This is much less than EOTN, but I’m being conservative here on the assumption that GW2 zones are that much more difficult to produce than GW1 zones.)

d) A new storyline, with about a dozen or so instances (using EOTN as the basis).

So, how does the LS compare?

On d), it probably does actually compare. Arguably, you could say the same for b), although gem store armours are… unsatisfying.

On c)… it’s actually getting close. We’ve had Southsun, the Bazaar, and technically you could say that the Tower of Nightmares and the Labyrinth of Madness are similar to overworld zones. Dungeon-wise, we’ve had quite a few more depending on just what you’d define as a “dungeon”. The problems are the temporary nature of most of this, and that what I put down was what I would consider the bare minimum (I’d be happier with an expansion to the overworld map that’s roughly half of what we currently have in area).

On a), however, the LS has clearly fallen down compared to an expansion, and again, what I specified there is the minimum. Fundamentally, while there have been a few balance changes, from the big-picture perspective we’re playing with pretty much the same stuff we had on release.

Kythan Myr.4719:

In the spirit of open collaboration I think this is an important discussion to have. I know it has been brought up numerous, numerous times. However, I have not seen any topics so far evaluating the worth of the LS as an adequate replacement for any future expansions. So I’d thought I’d ask that question and hope there would be honest open feedback to maybe give the devs any new insight on to what the community thinks.

Anet has gone on record and said they are unsure if there will be expansions released in the traditional form and that LS is something they would like to explore. That has lead many of us to believe that the current iterations of LS are mini chunks of a larger expansion released to satisfy our wait time and to keep us interested in staying the game. That’s just an assumption, but a valid one in light of what has been told/released to us so far.

So, if all of this is indeed true, one has to wonder if after a year’s worth of LS content release has added up to the equivalent of an expansion (or close to it). I might be naive, because I am not a game developer, but I would have to imagine that the amount of time, money, and resources poured into this past year of LS updates and seriously detracted from any other developments ie an expansion.

So post your thoughts and keep them civil. I think it is obvious that many here on the forums and GW2guru forums and have posted their angst about Scarlett – I think that is something they are already well aware of. Which I think it would be well worth everyone’s interests to create an in game survey asking the community if they like the current LS. That would put to rest the idea that it is most of the community hating Scarlett or just a smaller more vocal group.

(TL/DR)
1. After playing through a year’s worth of LS updates, do you still feel like you want an expansion?

2. Does the sum of last year’s worth of LS updates feel like the equivalent of an expansion?

3. If no. 2 is yes: What features are missing from the LS updates that would make it feel more like a proper expansion?

I’ve said this to many thinking the same, and atm I can’t find the actual interview, but I’ll say it again nonetheless.
Last year, when GW2 came out, Colin Johanson gave an interview stating that 2013 wouldn’t be a year of content. When The Lost Shores came out we all saw how badly that went for some players, but the reason why that happened was because they’re still getting the hang of GW2’s engine, its limitations, what they can do, and the whole Living Story Concept.
A bit later after a year from launch, that was the first time(correct me if I’m wrong) we saw some kind of living world/foreshadowing thing happen with the Kessex Hills deforestation on the Halloween Update. People should’ve known and understood this from the beginning of the year, knowing 2013 would be a core-gameplay quality improvement year, and not an “expansion worth of content” like they said GW2 would give, which I still thoroughly believe they will deliver on that.
I agree 2013 could’ve been better, but I prefer to view all the content that is going on(story-wise) as a very vague prologue that will have explanation/closure soon.
You can’t do Bike tricks without learning to ride a bike first.
2013 was CLEARLY a preparation year. They got all the base-content for festivals sort out, quality of life improvements, they hear feedback and have taken steps for a more developer-player collaboration focused game.
No, 2013 and 2012 did not live up to its manifesto, but I still believe it will, and may even surpass it.

This is Gw2, this isnt your typical MMO I dont understand why people continue to expect the devs to behave like other MMOs.

Its been said a lot of times but I think it needs to be said again. In other MMOs if you add a new continent its not a big deal because you’ll raise the level cap and thats the only place were people can play so if your lower level zones are empty its no big deal, thats only content you do once to get to endgame which is where the real game begins. If you add a new dungeon? no problem either all other dungeons are now absolute etc…

In Gw2 they dont have that luxury. Adding stuff permanently dalutes the player base… A lot! if we get a whole 25 new zones all at once what would happen? some zones already feel empty as is, something like this will guarantee they’ll definitely be empty.

As for the LS and if it delivered an expansion worth of content. Lets see shall we:
100s of new dynamic events
3 new PvP maps
2 new WvW areas/changes
100s of new achievements
New Daily system
9 new Jumping puzzles
5 new dungeons
12 new Fractals
3 new maps
a Whole game within the game (SAB)
New PvP features
over 200 new guild missions
3 new mini dungeons
100s of new crafting recipes
100s of new skins
New costumes
new pvp finishers
tons of new minis
3 new conditions
1 new skill
2 new devices
new Gear Types
Achievement rewards
new crafting materials
Changes to Magic find and Agony resistance
New gear Tier
new gear sockatable stuff
new dyes
new gear rewards system (allow you to choose weapon type and stats)
LFG tool
Dungeons updates
13 new mini games
change to champions and veterans
updated models
18 story missions (including LS dungeons)

The world might not have grown much but are you people really going to claim all that content comes no where close to what an expansion provides? cause seems to me like because they didnt create many new areas they were able to deliver a lot more actual content then a typical expansion pack has. And pretty sure I forgot other stuff they did.

LS is a nice thought but if all it is ever gonna be is a major disaster or event that completely destroys a place and after 2 week its sudden reverted back like nothing happened. Over and over and over again I feel like our evolving world is going stale very quick.

Chaotic Storm.2815:

LS is a nice thought but if all it is ever gonna be is a major disaster or event that completely destroys a place and after 2 week its sudden reverted back like nothing happened. Over and over and over again I feel like our evolving world is going stale very quick.

when did that happen? What I love in the LS is that change persists between one episode and the rest. Cragstead remained in ruins after F&F during the secret of southsun and then was rebuilt 2 lS episodes later when the refugees moved there and help rebuild it after escaping the consortium.

The infrastructure build on southsun by the refugees while under contract is still there to this day. The grawl refugees displaced by F&F are still in LA to this day. The geological changes F&F caused (the gyser thing remained).

There was no event that I am aware off where there was major destruction that reverted back after the LS episode ended.

Galen Grey.4709:

As for the LS and if it delivered an expansion worth of content. Lets see shall we:
100s of new dynamic events
9 new Jumping puzzles
5 new dungeons
3 new maps
a Whole game within the game (SAB)
3 new mini dungeons
100s of new crafting recipes
100s of new skins
new dyes
LFG tool
13 new mini games
18 story missions (including LS dungeons)

The LFG tool needed to be in the game from day one, I can’t really call it fair to count fixing such an oversight as “content”.

As for the rest of it, where do I find these? I’d like to check them out over the next week or so of my play time.

Palador.2170:

The LFG tool needed to be in the game from day one, I can’t really call it fair to count fixing such an oversight as “content”.

And yet the vast majority of MMOs don’t have it at release and does add it later with an expansion or something like that.

KOPPER.1458:

“Yes, putting all updates together from start of Living Story until now is very much enough to fulfill an expansion.”

Most expansions I’ve ever bought or played had way more features and content then what we’ve gotten in the LS. My view might be skewed because most of the content is gone and you can currently not see it.

Good point. How much did you pay for the living story?

lordkrall.7241:

Palador.2170:

The LFG tool needed to be in the game from day one, I can’t really call it fair to count fixing such an oversight as “content”.

And yet the vast majority of MMOs don’t have it at release and does add it later with an expansion or something like that.

All the more reason, then. If it’s a mistake “the vast majority of MMOs” make, and then fix, is it fair to count ANet making the same smurfing mistake and then fixing it as content? Really, you’d think a good dev team would figure out the pattern by now.

Phy.2913:

KOPPER.1458:

“Yes, putting all updates together from start of Living Story until now is very much enough to fulfill an expansion.”

Most expansions I’ve ever bought or played had way more features and content then what we’ve gotten in the LS. My view might be skewed because most of the content is gone and you can currently not see it.

Good point. How much did you pay for the living story?

Personally, I’ve paid about as much as I’ve had to pay for tens of thousands of free books to read on my eBook, hundreds of hours of videos on YouTube, and countless free flash games.

When it comes to free entertainment, people still have options. Free doesn’t excuse it being bad. If it’s not better than the other free entertainments, why will people bother with it?

Palador.2170:

Phy.2913:

KOPPER.1458:

“Yes, putting all updates together from start of Living Story until now is very much enough to fulfill an expansion.”

Most expansions I’ve ever bought or played had way more features and content then what we’ve gotten in the LS. My view might be skewed because most of the content is gone and you can currently not see it.

Good point. How much did you pay for the living story?

Personally, I’ve paid about as much as I’ve had to pay for tens of thousands of free books to read on my eBook, hundreds of hours of videos on YouTube, and countless free flash games.

When it comes to free entertainment, people still have options. Free doesn’t excuse it being bad. If it’s not better than the other free entertainments, why will people bother with it?

Free isn’t an excuse, but you can’t ignore it either.

“Good point. How much did you pay for the living story?”

Few hundred dollars in which I got “extras”

This is how they fund their game. “Free” content or not has to be good and engaging. If it is not people won’t stay to play.

Phy.2913:

Free isn’t an excuse, but you can’t ignore it either.

True.

So, let’s take a look at the free updates that were put out by another game. My favorite MMO of all time (until NCSoft killed it), City of Heroes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Heroes#Issues_.28free_updates.29

Did these updates come every two weeks? No. But they were lasting changes, they improved and expanded the game world, and they pretty much blow the GW2 LS out of the water in the regard.

Kythan Myr.4719:

(TL/DR)
1. After playing through a year’s worth of LS updates, do you still feel like you want an expansion?

The common misconception about an expansion is that liken to a mythical creature. It’s always far better than LS.

The fact is, expansion isn’t that great. I’ve played other MMOs and paid the expansion ranging from $30-$40 (retail) and what do I get? Places and quests to get to the next max level, then nothing — because 50% of the content is locked into a Raid Dungeon — which I have no time nor patience to do.

So to answer the question, no, they both have the same amount of content for me but the expac costs me money while LS doesn’t.

2. Does the sum of last year’s worth of LS updates feel like the equivalent of an expansion?

Not really. LS is nothing but a X.1, X.2, etc kind of update. When I purchase Mist of Pandaria, for example, the Siege of Orgrimmar did not exists until Patch 5.4 — that’s like 4-LSs.

So if we are to sum the LS for the last year, that’ll be equivalent to 5.19 — that’s right, that’s 19 updates for the course of a year — MoP is still at 5.4 while 7million players are paying them $15/month. Doesn’t makes sense huh?

3. If no. 2 is yes: What features are missing from the LS updates that would make it feel more like a proper expansion?

Nothing, because Anet calls the Living Story a Downloadable Content (DLC) — so it’s never going to be like an expansion. But even then, the GW2 client have expanded to add more features that are often overlooked.

IMO, I don’t care much about LS, but I appreciate other things like the WXP, the wallet, account bound items, etc.

Palador.2170:

True.

So, let’s take a look at the free updates that were put out by another game. My favorite MMO of all time (until NCSoft killed it), City of Heroes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Heroes#Issues_.28free_updates.29

Did these updates come every two weeks? No. But they were lasting changes, they improved and expanded the game world, and they pretty much blow the GW2 LS out of the water in the regard.

You are however ignoring the fact that the vast majority of those updates came during the time the game required an subscription to play, so technically you paid for them with said subscription, while in GW2 you don’t need to pay anything outside of the box-price to get access to all the releases.

Palador.2170:

Phy.2913:

Free isn’t an excuse, but you can’t ignore it either.

True.

So, let’s take a look at the free updates that were put out by another game. My favorite MMO of all time (until NCSoft killed it), City of Heroes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Heroes#Issues_.28free_updates.29

Did these updates come every two weeks? No. But they were lasting changes, they improved and expanded the game world, and they pretty much blow the GW2 LS out of the water in the regard.

Looking at the first year of that game (april 2004-may 2005) there were 4 updates. I never played CoH, so I can’t comment on which game was better after it’s first year.

I’ve only done the LS stuff off and on. As a result, if there is a coherent story being told by that content I have no idea what it is. Scarlet? Who is that? I’ve only directly encountered her once and frankly I don’t understand all the hate that is being directed her way.

Partly my situation is due to my not playing frequently enough. Partly it is because I want to do other things in the GW world (I feel like I have to do the LS and that I am missing out by not doing it so it nags at me while I go off and do WvW or whatever).

The point is, if the LS was equivalent to an expansion, I would be able to run all of its content at my leisure. But as LS is temporary content, I cannot and I have no good way to understand the story short of trying to research it on the internet. I constantly feel like I am missing out which is a real turn-off for me. As a result, LS has made me much less interested in spending time in this game. That seems counterproductive to me but I am sure ANet knows what it is doing.

lordkrall.7241:

You are however ignoring the fact that the vast majority of those updates came during the time the game required an subscription to play, so technically you paid for them with said subscription, while in GW2 you don’t need to pay anything outside of the box-price to get access to all the releases.

I… okay. I can’t argue against that fact. It’s true.

What I CAN do is point to the GW2 gem store. CoH went for quite a while without any such store. GW2’s had one in from the very beginning, and has been taking in money through it during every update. So, the GW2 updates aren’t really free either, subscription or not.

GW2’s updates are more “free” than CoH’s were, yes. I’ll have to admit that.

Phy.2913:

Looking at the first year of that game (april 2004-may 2005) there were 4 updates. I never played CoH, so I can’t comment on which game was better after it’s first year.

As a true CoH fanboy, I know what I’d say. But the real question is, which game’s updates added more/improved the game more during that first year?

Also, a fun fact: During part of its life, CoH had only 15 people working on it. Can you tell when they were running on such low dev staffing?