Guild Wars 2

One of the advantages of Guild Wars was supposed to be no monthly fee. As in, I do not have to feel guilty if I take a break. For example, when Oblivion came out I took a 3 month break from GW1.

These cursed monthly updates that invariably always end up adding new content and then taking too much of it away afterwards make me feel like I need to hop in every month to make sure I do not miss out on something cool.

And now you plan to do a release every two weeks?? That’s way to much. I’m ready to just bail right now.

Your idea of a living word screws over anyone who comes to the game later on and anyone who takes a break from the game. If you created a system where say if I took a 3 month break, I could work through the living world changes that occurred during that time period (sort of like story mode) such that I did not feel like I was missing out or feel pressured to play the game all of the time then that would be a huge step in the right direction.

I actually thought (and still do think) that you should switch to a 2 or 3 month release cycle, where you added significant amounts of new content such as a new fully explorable (including hearts, vistas, etc.). And less pressure/more time for casual players to complete quests and achievements. (e.g. finale events tha run for 2-3 weeks instead of 1). And no superfluous things like moa races that do not even provide a place to view the entire track. That stays but the much more interesting zephyr sprint will disappear shortly. Brilliant….

So anyway, I actually thought you should be expanding things out and reducing pressure, especially on casual players like myself to play the darned game all of the time. Instead, you go the opposite direction. Every two weeks means more pressure, adding stupid things to existing maps e.g. Dragon Bash was tolerable but Sky Pirates was a joke. I could not have cared less about the achievements and the AR dungeon was so not-fun that it was very hard to get a group together to go do it. Which of course also resulted in driving monocle prices so far up that it might as well not be obtainable.

With the huge sale going on with Steam, I’m ready to just quit on GW2 and play other stuff. As far as I am concerned, this silly Living World idea is killing any fun in playing GW2 at this point. I cannot stress enough that I do NOT want to feel pressured to play the game (again, no subscription fee is suppose to be a plus, but you have negated it with the LW updates) and I want to be able to take a break, hop in, and not feel like I missed out on a bunch of stuff that was added then removed. Imagine missing out on the dragon wings, or the special crafting tools temporarily added to the gem store.

As things stand, the 2 week release schedule alone is driving me away, and I figure if I do take a break from the game then why would I ever want to return, knowing that I will have missed out on a ton of content and items that were added and then taken away.

If you really want to continue down this LW path, then at least work on a way for return and casual players to have a chance to catch up on the changes (again, do something like story mode).

I am so very disappointed in the direction GW2 is goung in right now. You had so many great things implemented, but the LW is destroying the fun factor.

I just picked a bunch of games up in the Steam sales (including Skyrim). Tell me, why should I continue to play GW2 instead of playing Skyrim over the next few months? Or reading more fantasy novels (reading the Malazan books right now)? Or getting back into watching Anime more often? Or return to console gaming on the PS3. Or play Skyrim until the PS4 launches? The pressure to play GW2 so that I do not miss out is sucking the fun out of the game for me.

Technically, one doesn’t have to play any of the temporary content, of course. Still, I agree that making most new content temporary feels ridiculous. Seasonal festivals are one thing, at least these will hopefully come back each year. But if they didn’t remove the basic game’s storyline after month or two, regardless of how many people were done with it or not and how many latecomers would never see it, why remove the new content?

As a latecomer — I quit the game a few weeks after launch and only returned recently — I’m also a bit concerned about how temporary zones combines with fractals to suck players out of older content. It’s nice if new things happen in a game now and then, but can they really call it a “living world” when the players are concentrated almost exclusively in Lion’s Arch, CoF1 speedruns, high-level fractals and whatever the current temporary content is?

Not to mention the items in the gem store only available for a short time. And the cool looking skins that are part of the temporary content. A lot to miss out on if you are new to the game or take a break from it. And with a 2 week release schedule, taking a two week vacation means you just missed out on something….

Perhaps I’m being cynical, but I think a lot of this is geared towards encouraging players to buy gems. Either for gem store items or to convert to gold to buy items going for insane amounts of gold (such as the monocle that occasionally dropped in the AR dungeon). Same reason dyes are account bound…..

Argel.8274

the gem store.

As things stand, the 2 week release schedule alone is driving me away, and I figure if I do take a break from the game then why would I ever want to return, knowing that I will have missed out on a ton of content and items that were added and then taken away.

If you really want to continue down this LW path, then at least work on a way for return and casual players to have a chance to catch up on the changes (again, do something like story mode).

I am so very disappointed in the direction GW2 is goung in right now. You had so many great things implemented, but the LW is destroying the fun factor.

I just picked a bunch of games up in the Steam sales (including Skyrim). Tell me, why should I continue to play GW2 instead of playing Skyrim over the next few months? Or reading more fantasy novels (reading the Malazan books right now)? Or getting back into watching Anime more often? Or return to console gaming on the PS3. Or play Skyrim until the PS4 launches? The pressure to play GW2 so that I do not miss out is sucking the fun out of the game for me.

What you’re forgetting, is that you can happily pvp/rp/dungeon run all the same, without ever touching a bit of it. Also, the new content every 2 weeks does NOT mean the content lasts for only 2 weeks, merely that something new will be added. As an example, dragonbash overlapped with the tail end of the southsun story, then the start of the aetherblade story, but was around for about a month.

You’re not forced into the living story, so please stop talking like you can’t play gw2 if you can’t (or don’t want to) do the content. The content that was in at launch, is still 100% there, the living story hasn’t removed a single bit of it.

Starting not even 2 or 3 months in, players howled about the lack of new content, the lack of regular content updates, here we are almost a year later, with bi-monthly content updates, (more frequent than any paid mmo, I’d like to point out) and your first thought is to complain ? There’s nothing wrong with not playing gw2 so you can play other games, but which games you choose to play is your choice, any mmo will continue to happen whether or not you’re logged in, and in this case changes will happen, some temporary, other permanent. With your post ill take it you haven’t seen the interview with Collin stating there would be more permanent content being added with the living story updates (such as Belcher’s Bluff from the bazaar of the four winds update) as well as previous living story dungeons coming back via the fractals.

I can well understand the lack of time to get to see all the content in any game (mmo or otherwise), but don’t make it out like it’s Anets fault you don’t have the time to see the content.

edit: i trimmed as much of the whining out of your post as i could while still leaving it intact.

Also, you can’t threaten a non subscription based game with your quitting really as you’ve paid for the game as is (that and if you wanted to really quit, you would quit instead of moaning about it). Furthermore, whinging on that mmos change and you can’t handle that so you’ll show them by playing single player games that in no way compete with them, really is utterly invalid to the argument. If you have a better way of adding content, try being helpful and detailing it out in the suggestions forum

I don’t see why we cannot keep living story content for everyone to access whenever they want on their own watch. In GW1, we could go back and check out the first few missions in a campaign your character didn’t start in – I can’t remember what it said exactly, but it went something along the lines of “You are about to witness an event that happened in the past…”. The current living story content can remain an open world event, and any past events could be instanced.

As Argel has explained, I too feel the pressure to continue playing GW2, and the new content along with its related achievements makes me feel insanely pressed for time and takes away from my enjoyment of the game. It is true nobody is forcing me to play and come back to check out new content however, as a completionist I find it incredibly annoying when I am too busy with other commitments to play through temporary content.

Argel.8274:

Not to mention the items in the gem store only available for a short time. And the cool looking skins that are part of the temporary content. A lot to miss out on if you are new to the game or take a break from it. And with a 2 week release schedule, taking a two week vacation means you just missed out on something….

Perhaps I’m being cynical, but I think a lot of this is geared towards encouraging players to buy gems. Either for gem store items or to convert to gold to buy items going for insane amounts of gold (such as the monocle that occasionally dropped in the AR dungeon). Same reason dyes are account bound…..

maybe you’re unaware of how retail works, anyone selling something promotes it so people will impulse buy it, grocery stores do the same thing, and anyone that sells something has been doing it since the first thing was ever sold to another person. Nothing sold in the store gives you some easy win button advantage (yes i know of the permanent axe/pick/scythe) but those are dirt cheap to buy stacks of, so that’s really irrelevant. 99% of the gem store is fluff, you wont miss content by not buying any of it, you wont play worse or better buy not buying any of it.

Without a subscription fee, the devs have to be paid by something in order to keep maintaining the game, so if you don’t want to buy gems, then don’t, pretty simple.

And once again, new content every 2 weeks is NOT the same as it only lasting 2 weeks. And even if it was, if you chose to go on that vacation, then you would’ve chose it over any content, which was your choice, not anets.

Dying Infinity.4805:

I don’t see why we cannot keep living story content for everyone to access whenever they want on their own watch. In GW1, we could go back and check out the first few missions in a campaign your character didn’t start in – I can’t remember what it said exactly, but it went something along the lines of “You are about to witness an event that happened in the past…”. The current living story content can remain an open world event, and any past events could be instanced.

As Argel has explained, I too feel the pressure to continue playing GW2, and the new content along with its related achievements makes me feel insanely pressed for time and takes away from my enjoyment of the game. It is true nobody is forcing me to play and come back to check out new content however, as a completionist I find it incredibly annoying when I am too busy with other commitments to play through temporary content.

Anet has stated the old living story dungeons will come back as fractals, so you’ll be able to run those to your hearts content!

I spent 1 and only 1 day to complete this release. After that day i was already doing the same things i was doing beofr ethe patch. I don’t think that in 2 weeks you won’t have a single game to dedicate to the game and if you do, it means that you are using your free time somewhere else and so you don’t care about the temporary contenet, so why bother.

Argel.8274:

These cursed monthly updates that invariably always end up adding new content and then taking too much of it away afterwards make me feel like I need to hop in every month to make sure I do not miss out on something cool.

That is exactly the point.

How do you expect ArenaNet to keep people playing the game? They could try to release content in a single batch, but players always devour content faster than developers can make them, so it would only have a very temporary effect. They could do what every other MMORPG do and add massive grind to the game, but one of the main appeals behind the Guild Wars franchise has been the little grind it’s supposed to have.

What is the better option, then? To release temporary content in small updates. This keeps people interested, keeps people playing even if for a single day after a release, and keeps the game fresh.

The fact you feel like you should play the game often or miss cool stuff is exactly the goal behind the two weeks updates. IMO, it’s better than having you feel like you need to play the game often or you will be left behind in the gear treadmilll (which is what other MMOs do).

Erasculio.2914:

Argel.8274:

These cursed monthly updates that invariably always end up adding new content and then taking too much of it away afterwards make me feel like I need to hop in every month to make sure I do not miss out on something cool.

That is exactly the point.

How do you expect ArenaNet to keep people playing the game?

No, it’s not the point. Anet was doing good with the GW1 model. And if I am not playing as often, then their hardware requirements go down, so they can save money that way. They do not necessarily need a ton of people playing. In fact, technically, the only ones they need playing are the ones buying lots of gems. The point of not having a monthly subscription fee is I should not feel like I have to keep playing every month to avoid feeling like I am missing out. Yes, they will introduce new content that will stay, but there will always be special reward/event items that will go away. So lets say I take a Skyrim break for 3 months. Knowing I missed out on some presumably cool skins, gem stores items, etc., will I really want to came back to GW2 after that?

Anet is pushing gems and the gem store way too hard. They are making lots of money off it now, but at the cost of burnout down the road. I’m not the only one feeling Living World fatigue.

And what happened to playing the way I want to? It has morphed into play the Living World events now lest I miss out on the items that go away when the event ends. Some will still be available at the trading post, but look at how much the dyes from F&F are going for. Or the monocles. Of course, making them a rare drop in a dungeon that many hate to play guarantees high prices, which translates to people buying gems….

And your logic is severely flawed. How about Anet makes the game FUN enough for me to WANT to play, instead of constantly pushing out weak, unpolished content with some cool items available for only a short period of time, which puts PRESSURE on me to play.

It’s a game. It’s supposed to be fun. Anet’s LW strategy is seriously hampering my enjoyment of the game. You talked about keeping players, but how does Anet keep players in the long run when Living World fatigue is already starting to seep in. Isn’t it better to have me take a 3 month break playing Skyrim, maybe hopping in once in a while to see how things are going with the guild, etc. vs. me never coming back? Or coming back 8-10 months from now? Or now that everyone is bailing on subscription fees, maybe I decide to check out some of the other games instead and get around to coming back to GW2 in a year or two?

Not to mention the event-only items that anyone hopping into the game for the first time will miss out on. Or even storylines missed out on. In GW1 you missed out on the festival hats/costumes and had to get up to speed on which skills were nerfed/altered/buffed. But for the most part, it was just the fesitivals thay you missed out on.

I’m tempted to give up on this game because I see no sign the Anet cares about trying to make the game fun. The focus seems to be putting pressure on players to avoid missing out on items along with a lot of mediocre new content. And this 2 week release cycle is even more depressing. I thought they were actually starting to get on target with the Labyrinthine Cliffs, which imo is some of the best new content. Instead, are we to expect more lightweight stuff added to LA, etc.?

I would much rather see a longer release cycle that culminates in a new area complete with vistas, heart quests, etc. Bigger than Sothsun Cove and Labyrinthine cliffs (but not ridiculously large either). And then maybe stretch out some lightweight events, mini-plots, etc. in the current new area while we wait for the next new area to be released (sure beats running around LA all the time).

Ask yourself this — do you want a game where the new content is geared towards making the game fun to play for veteran players, casual players, and new players alike, or do you want a game where the actual focus is pushing gems and the gem store hard with hit-or-miss content that in the long run detracts from the game? Because the latter imo is what we currently have.

Agreed, OP, 100%.

I came into this MMO thinking I’d be able to take an occasional break from it and not miss out on stuff, but it’s been exactly the opposite. If all of these Living Story updates were permanent as you suggested, similar to their GW1 model, that’d be perfect.

Instead, for this year it’s been this: “Here you go, guys, new content! Oh wait, it’s time to take it away from you now because the world is supposed to be living! Ignore the fact that the core story and zones are still in their original state from before The Lost Shores update and there for anyone to play at their leisure, but nope you cannot replay and experience the new chapters following said core story content because we have to pretend this is a living world, guys, do you get it?!”

It’s beyond ridiculous to not leave these past chapters of the LS in for new comers and old players who wish to experience them again. They could easily make them all instances similar to how the personal story is instanced in actual zones.

Fractals getting LS dungeons doesn’t cut it either, since it’s just a small piece of the whole chapter of whatever particular LS they ripped the dungeon from.

I just cannot fathom how anyone could be happy with temporary content.

This topic managed to set a brand new level of egocentrism and entitlement on these forums.

bail now pls. bye. dont stop new content for others.

Erasculio.2914:

Argel.8274:

These cursed monthly updates that invariably always end up adding new content and then taking too much of it away afterwards make me feel like I need to hop in every month to make sure I do not miss out on something cool.

That is exactly the point.

How do you expect ArenaNet to keep people playing the game? They could try to release content in a single batch, but players always devour content faster than developers can make them, so it would only have a very temporary effect. They could do what every other MMORPG do and add massive grind to the game, but one of the main appeals behind the Guild Wars franchise has been the little grind it’s supposed to have.

What is the better option, then? To release temporary content in small updates. This keeps people interested, keeps people playing even if for a single day after a release, and keeps the game fresh.

The fact you feel like you should play the game often or miss cool stuff is exactly the goal behind the two weeks updates. IMO, it’s better than having you feel like you need to play the game often or you will be left behind in the gear treadmilll (which is what other MMOs do).

I disagree to a point here. They would have a better player retention if the ratio of temporary to permanent content was shifted towards the majority of each update being permanent.

Some parts of each bi-weekly update being temporary (among that of course the story development) with the ‘meat’ being permanent would still have the desired negative reinforcement effect, the “must log in or miss something, must log in for daily at least” that is Anet’s basic model.

But you must recognize that coming back after months and not seeing many changes and/or not being able to keep up with the majority of the releases being temporary drives people away. just look at the forums and keep in mind bi-weekly has only been going on for like 1-2 months…

So I propose a majority of permanent content with a temporary story and some temporary things tied into each bi-weekly release would be much better for their business model then the all-temp, all the time.

They might already realize that since the news are that going forward there is more permanent stuff in each release.

The other problem they have is how overpriced the gem store is at US $0.0125 per gem. So e.g. each kite is $6.25. Transmutation Crystals are $2.50 for 5.

In Steam’s insane pricing summer sale Skyrim Legendary was going for roughly $35.

Meanwhile, in GW2 that would get you 2800 gems. As an example, say you want all three aspect backslot skins but do not have time to farm/grind for the fortune scraps. Instead, you could buy the Kite Fortunes at 400 gems for 25. Do that 5 times ($25) and that should net you enough to buy all three aspects and a rare (yellow) backslot item to slap each one on.

Pretty huge disparity there, and that’s overlooking games like Witcher 2 that were under $5 (or classics like System Shock 2 that were cheaper than that). It’s encore day, by the way, so games like the new Tomb Raider, Dishonered, Bioshock Infite, etc. are all under $30 (some closer to 10).

But it’s unfair to compare the cost of gems to sale prices, right? Except that the kites were just added to the gem store while the Steam sale was already in progress!! So that’s $6.25 (500 gems) for a kite that doesn’t do anything beyond cosmetics vs. picking up games like Witcher 2. Or for two kites (let’s say you got one for want the other two), and then we’re looking at $12.50, which covers Tomb Raider, Dishonored, The Walking Dead, Fallout New Vegas, and more!!

The Steam summer sale just made the disparity in value painfully obvious. And let’s face it, casual players are the ones who will be buying gems, since they are the ones that do not have enough time to be hardcore players. So anet is pushing casual players away because they either have to pay real money to get access to some of the “here today, gone tomorrow” cool skins, etc. introduced in LW content or forget about it. Either way, that’s not going to create any “warm and fuzzy, anet cares about me” type feelings.

If hardcore gamers are spending more than casual players on gems, then telling casual players they should go off and e.g. play Skyrim is I suppose legit. But if casual gamers are the ones spending more (or if it’s about equal, or even a third), then driving away casual players takes revenue away from the game. LW fatigue…..

By the way, I do not recall saying I did not want new content. It’s the pacing/lack of permanency that’s the problem. If all of the new content added so far remained, then there is no problem. And holiday events should reappear with the old content and the new content.

Edit1: And the Zephyr — anet should either say they are hanging around to make repairs or replinsh stocks, and just leave it there for a while. Or have them travel elsewhere for a month and then return a month later. That could be a good teaser for Cantha and Elona, or any other areas they might want to add in later (specifically, they could add new ingredients and recipes indicative of where they just came from, and maybe some new skins, etc.). I’d also like to see an official aspect based JP (and keep the race).

Edit2: And that just shows how this LW things is BS and how the real focus is on gems first and foremost. Some major missed opportunities here (like, trading vessels bringing trade goods in from different ports, etc. that would imply a Living World).

While I don’t believe that the LV content is worse than a subscription, a subscription is real money being wasted LV is not, I must admit that I see this temporary content as a waste of so much of Anets resources.

The living world was a nice idea and in the beginning they only had one team working on it with Frost and Flame, which I took part in. I enjoyed it and had fun but this recent announcement has made the new content dull to me.

For those that might find fault with me saying this answer me this first. Why should I play the temporary content? It won’t be around to have a meaningful impact, except for dungeons that might return, and it makes me feel obligated to play that content because it will be gone soon.

I’m not going to stop playing GW2 but why care about the new content coming out? It doesn’t matter in my eyes except perhaps as a side break, but my biggest problem is why is Anet so focused on temp. content rather than permanent?

I wouldn’t mind the living story if at least part of it stayed around but none of it is. So why should I not have concerns if Anet is so heavily focused on content that if a player hasn’t been keeping up on will become lost in the middle of the ongoing event and be put off by it. This practice doesn’t draw in new players and will push some casuals away.

My main problem is that I feel Anet is spending too much time on temp stuff instead of permanent stuff.Why not combine the 2?

I hope that Anet does get some new permanent content out soon, but the LV stuff just doesn’t hold my attention a lot because once you get behind you get left out. All you get out of LV is some new stuff and a temporary kind of ongoing story.

Again for those that find fault in what I say answer me this. Why should I get invested and excited about something that won’t be there after a little while and not express even the slightest bit of concern that it seems like Anet is focused just a little bit too much on it and not on fixing bugs and furthering permanent content?

Just a question for thought.

I absolutely agree with this. People kittened over include but not limited to the following:
- military personnel
- students on Erasmus
- people going on holiday (it’s kitten summer for Melandru’s sake)
- students with exams and the intention to pass with decent grades
- jobs with important deadlines (development, R&D)
- offshore jobs
- any job involving ships
- people with freshly spawned kids
- people building their own home
- you
- me
- …

Basically every single player will be negatively impacted sooner rather than later by this 2 week schedule and I can’t see it end well on the long run. It’s a disaster.

It’s not that I don’t want to like it, and I really like the content as it comes. But why does it have to go away? There’s no excuse.

I’m going on a 3 week holiday soon, which means that I’ll miss one of the two week cycles. I play GW2 because I didn’t want to date a videogame and I’m not starting now.

Too many changes? too many temp contents? too much nerfing different classes? is it time to quite and come back in a a year?

How do you expect ArenaNet to keep people playing the game?
Solution: Fix WvW. Add perm contents to WvW. Because that is the true end game of guild wars (where guilds go to war).

Nightfall.7218:

For those that might find fault with me saying this answer me this first. Why should I play the temporary content?

Why go on holiday? You’ll wind up back home anyway. Why get that cut of steak you really like? It’ll be eaten in minutes. Why watch the big game? One of the teams will win and suddenly everyone’s talking about next year. Why go see the travelling circus? They’ll just pack up and go elsewhere.

I understand and partially agree with the desire for more permanency (yes that’s right, this post is not arguing against having more permanent content) but the enjoyment you had with updates doesn’t get erased when the content is removed. That evening where you had a good time exploring the new area still happened. It improved the quality of your day and, as a result, ever so slightly improved the overall quality of your life which after all is the purpose of doing anything other than eating, sleeping and reproducing.

If you don’t actually enjoy doing the content added in the living story then there’s your answer. That said, once you log out for the last time all the work and progress you made becomes moot, so why not enjoy the ride?

ITT: Players asking developers to stop making content, because new content means the players will have to play that content, so the solution is to not make content because then the players won’t log on to play the content, and not playing the game at all is preferable to playing it, apparently.

I’m going on a 3 week holiday soon, which means that I’ll miss one of the two week cycles. I play GW2 because I didn’t want to date a videogame and I’m not starting now.

You’re freaking out because GW2 might “do something” while you’re gone that you might miss.

Yeah, you’re not dating GW2…you’re acting like it’s your baby. “Oh god if I go on vacation, I might miss it rolling over for the first time! Must freak out!!!”

Maybe take all this stuff just a LITTLE less seriously, bro.

I think people need to chill and look at the fact that the LV isn’t really a terrible thing. It is a nice side thing to do if you want a change of pace. It will be hard for newer players to get into it because they haven’t kept up but the LV isn’t so important that you should feel panic if you miss a few things.

What is my main concern is that they plan on releasing and updating the LV every 2 weeks from now on. This seems way too quick and why do they have 4 separate teams working on content that will be gone in a little while? This game isn’t that old yet so why not work on polishing and refining what you have and adding more permanent content along with a few temp things?

I fear that Anet is putting too much focus on the LV too quickly. I wish that they would have at max 2 teams working on LV stuff or make the LV part temporary part permanent. I don’t know if they can keep up a good level of quality on temp content when they will be releasing it so fast.

Also for those complaining that they might miss something the content is temp for a reason. Temp content is not an evil, if done right it can be a nice pass time. Anyone just complaining should be more concerned about the rate at which the temp stuff will be release rather than the temp content itself. It is a game.

The GW2 model is not worse than a sub model. In sub model: if I don’t want to play, I feel like I wasted money. In GW2 model: if I don’t want to play I don’t play. If ANet entices me to play because of new content, then that would be me wanting to play — in which case I would play. No one at ANet is doing anything to you, you’re doing it to yourself.

Also, we can expect more permanent content from LS chapters going forward. People asked for it, and now Colin’s promised it.

I think people complaining about temporary content dont understand the crucial part – no matter how much you missed, much more is waiting you ahead.

And that’s really cool.

I fully agree. Im a very new player (still in the level 20s) and tbh I have very little idea what this ‘living story’ is but it pops up on my screen every time I log in as a sort of warning that it will not be long till the next part of this ‘story’ is here.

As far as I can tell this is designed for level 80s… I had a go as a level 15 or something on a living story a while ago and it turned out to be one of the VERY few things in the game to provide no exp… (from what I remember I got exp from kills? but not as a reward for completing the ‘quest’)

Now dont get my wrong I think its amazing they are adding level 80 content so often since I hear the end game is pretty dull on GW2. but would it be that bad if they added an exp reward similar to completing a personal story quest for us guys leveling up? and do they REALLY need to remove pretty much all content in these updates. Like the OP said, it ruins the whole, come back and forth to the game, which they were using as a selling point before it came out!

Murderous Clown.9723:

Why go on holiday? You’ll wind up back home anyway. Why get that cut of steak you really like? It’ll be eaten in minutes. Why watch the big game? One of the teams will win and suddenly everyone’s talking about next year. Why go see the travelling circus? They’ll just pack up and go elsewhere.

I understand and partially agree with the desire for more permanency (yes that’s right, this post is not arguing against having more permanent content) but the enjoyment you had with updates doesn’t get erased when the content is removed.

The difference is, many of us play characters in virtual worlds precisely because most real world limitations are gone. That’s why fantasy games with wizards and dragons are so popular. A fine example for the circus equivalent in MMOs even exists: The Darkmoon Fair in WoW changes locations regularly, being unavailable in the meantime while they “travel”. Yet it never disappears altogether, and you can quite easily travel to the other end of the world within minutes if it is currently there and you want to visit it.

The thing is, the default state for digital content is permanent. Once it is created, the data is there, it takes deliberate effort to replace it with something else (e.g. next Living World installment). And it ArenaNet could very well entered this 2 week release schedule without taking content away afterwards, if they wanted to. I an 100% convinced this has been a pure marketing decision, so that players feel more pressured to play all the time (yet another aspect where they did a 180° turn from the manifest). I won’t buy any of the excuses. If new content is to come every 2 weeks so people don’t complain how bored they are, it won’t affect the content locusts whether it disappears or not – they will always move on to the newest stuff anyway, here or by switching games.

Just imagine, for a moment, we could have all the living world content, all the updates, armor and weapon skins, gem store items, everything – permanently – without compromising the 2 week schedule, without even antagonizing the content locusts.

I’ll stick with the game for as long as I can endure this, but I do know that there will be a point where I’ll be so fed up with temporary content that I either just leave, or only log in sporadically for some RP, not playing the actual game content or buying gems for stuff. I don’t mean this as a threat; it is just the way it has been for me in all MMOs. When I take a break, whether I will actually come back depends largely on how what stuff I missed out, and how hard it would be to catch up with the pace of the game.

GW2 is currently in a state where catching up is impossible because large portions of the content go away (and the stuff that stays so far is neglibigle – like we get to keep Belcher’s Bluff but Sanctum Sprint just disappears). Factor in to that the ascended grind. You’ll need multiple crafting professions at the new and extra-expensive to level up 500 crafting level, produce daily-time-gated account components and after months, a single might have the new max stat armor. Don’t even think about getting twinks on to that level.

GW2 started as a very light-hearted game. Just buy it, no subscription, play at your own pace, no pressure, no bad feelings. Now we are in constant stress mode – do this content now or you will miss it forever, reach all these achievements until the deadline to get the item skin that you would so love for your characters (oh and you get one consumable skin for only one character). Some people revel in that mode, others loathe it so much that they ignore it from the start. Me, I am typically and all or nothing type of player. At the moment, I try to keep up with the pace of new content coming and going. As soon as I cannot continue for whatever reason, I might just skip Living World entirely; but what remains then in the game, when all new content is like that? A deep feeling of disappointment, mostly.

Zil.3071:

bail now pls. bye. dont stop new content for others.

For the slim chance you might actually take this to your heart and rethink your position: no one here complains about stuff coming every two weeks. We complain about stuff going away again after a month.

realloc.5846:

I think people complaining about temporary content dont understand the crucial part – no matter how much you missed, much more is waiting you ahead.

And that’s really cool.

And how does content have to be temporary to have “much more waiting ahead”? This is a false dichotomy, one does not exclude the other. Stop thinking we want to take content away or keep it from coming. We want to keep it from going away!

Bovinity.8610:

I’m going on a 3 week holiday soon, which means that I’ll miss one of the two week cycles. I play GW2 because I didn’t want to date a videogame and I’m not starting now.

You’re freaking out because GW2 might “do something” while you’re gone that you might miss.

Yeah, you’re not dating GW2…you’re acting like it’s your baby. “Oh god if I go on vacation, I might miss it rolling over for the first time! Must freak out!!!”

Maybe take all this stuff just a LITTLE less seriously, bro.

I like to play the entire game if you don’t mind. They don’t have to not make content, that’s a false dichotomy, but I’d appreciate the content more if I could play it next month, next year. You know, the way holiday events work too.

And indeed, I’m as much a fan of GW2 as some people are fans of their favourite sports team. They’d hate to miss the European Finals without any chance to watch a recording. I’m proud of that. This is a good game, I only want it to be better.

I don’t mind the achievements, nor the item rewards. I simply want to experience the content itself. I’d have collected the 40 crystals in the Bazaar without a reward too, simply because it was a nice challenge. To have that disappear is a real shame.

Priorities, man. Leave your job, ditch your wife and kick out your children. Then you can dedicate yourself to GW2.

If you want to go really hardcore, there is always the s**tbucket option, too.

marnick.4305:

I’m going on a 3 week holiday soon, which means that I’ll miss one of the two week cycles. I play GW2 because I didn’t want to date a videogame and I’m not starting now.

If your priority is GW2, then stay at your own home. It’s easy.

IndigoSundown.5419:

The GW2 model is not worse than a sub model. In sub model: if I don’t want to play, I feel like I wasted money. In GW2 model: if I don’t want to play I don’t play.

It’s worse if I end up spending more each month that I would with a subscription. And with the increased pressure to play every two weeks now…. Maybe they should offer a season pass that gives access to all of the special items/skins added temporarily in LW.

Interestingly enough I’m in the exact opposite boat of OP. The temporary content is what actually keeps me coming back rather than taking long breaks (which I feel is the whole idea).

They are trying to create a LIVING world. You know, like how the real world works. You miss an event in real life, you can’t relive it. That’s the concept they are trying out in GW2. It’s a timeline and things have a beginning and an end. You miss out on the stuff in the past, that’s where it stays, in the past. If you want some kind of time travel, do Fractals.

I 100% love the Living Story concept. It’s different, it’s fresh, and it keeps me logging in every day, week, and month.

Sounds like those that weren’t really showing GW2 any attention are mad they missed out on stuff, but that’s how life goes. You weren’t playing, why should you be able to experience something that people who are dedicated to the game got to experience? There are thousands of video games out there that I’m sure will be closer to what you’re looking for. GW1 for example.

You could look at it and say “Well screw you Anet, if I can’t replay things that I missed then I don’t want to experience anything ever and I quit!”

Or you could take the reasonable approach and say “Darn, I missed a lot of stuff from taking a long break! I don’t want to miss out on anything else so I will be sure to log in for 5 hours or so about every month…”

And the military/other obligations argument: They are exactly that → other obligations. You made a choice to sacrifice some luxuries by enlisting or doing any of the other things that take away time from a video game. Those were choices (very good and respectable choices) and less video games/missed video game content is a consequence. Man/woman up and accept it.

If you won’t put in the minuscule amount of effort it takes to do the LS achievements (can be done in 1 sitting in most cases), then you don’t really deserve to get anything from it. That’s how it works everywhere else in the world.

Anet wants GW2 to try and mimic aspects of real life with their Living Story and they are succeeding at it. You can tell its succeeding by all the people complaining they missed out on content while they were busy not playing GW2….

Nightfall.7218:

This seems way too quick and why do they have 4 separate teams working on content that will be gone in a little while? This game isn’t that old yet so why not work on polishing and refining what you have and adding more permanent content along with a few temp things?

If you read some of the interviews anet is planning on using LW to add new content instead of expansion packs. They will probably do one eventually (how else do you do Cantha or Elona any justice?), but figure on expansion packs being few and far between (and significantly delayed).

Draknar.5748:

They are trying to create a LIVING world. You know, like how the real world works.

Is that the best you can really do? As others have pointed out, the existing maps are for the most part static, save for repeatable events like veteran monsters spawning, bandit raids repeating, etc. And why is it we cannot kill other players in PvE, kill NPCs, etc.? How is that like how the real world works??

GW2 is supposed to be casual gamer friendly and heavy on cooperative play. It’s flat out not designed for anything like the real world. Trying to make a game behave like the real world requires a completely different approach from the ground up. The most obvious example is EVE Online:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10/28/eve-evolved-top-ten-ganks-scams-heists-and-
events/

If you want a real world like experience, then you are playing the wrong game.

And as a side note, one of the original big selling points of the games was “play they way you want to play”. The whole LW adding and the removing content is anathema to that. And like I said above, it should be obvious the real goal has been to sell more gems.

This entire argument is based on fallacious expectations for an MMO. You’re upset that a “living world” changes? That’s the point. While we gamers immerse ourselves in digital worlds, the real world passes by and changes too. Do you complain of reality as well? Other MMOs charge a subscription and may still charge for more for expansions. It’s ridiculous to complain that you’re getting more for less because you’re jealous or competitive. Anet markets GW2 for a different crowd. If your game play is completion oriented, there’s nothing wrong with that, but none of the living world content or in-game purchase (gems) are necessary to enjoy GW2 or be successful. The majority of content provided by both are mostly cosmetically different from the core game content. I think the majority of us, as competitive OR casual gamers, enjoy the fact that we can spend time in the real world or playing other games and find free, fresh content when we return.

Argel.8274:

IndigoSundown.5419:

The GW2 model is not worse than a sub model. In sub model: if I don’t want to play, I feel like I wasted money. In GW2 model: if I don’t want to play I don’t play.

It’s worse if I end up spending more each month that I would with a subscription. And with the increased pressure to play every two weeks now…. Maybe they should offer a season pass that gives access to all of the special items/skins added temporarily in LW.

So don’t spend that much if you don’t want to. I prefer the option to spend only if I want to buy extras rather than to rent the game month to month.

And pressure? Over a video game? I like the game, but if I miss something it’s not a big deal. I realize that others’ mileage varies, but I wonder if the degree of rage I see over this issue is a function of taking games too seriously.

Argel.8274:

Draknar.5748:

They are trying to create a LIVING world. You know, like how the real world works.

Is that the best you can really do? As others have pointed out, the existing maps are for the most part static, save for repeatable events like veteran monsters spawning, bandit raids repeating, etc. And why is it we cannot kill other players in PvE, kill NPCs, etc.? How is that like how the real world works??

GW2 is supposed to be casual gamer friendly and heavy on cooperative play. It’s flat out not designed for anything like the real world. Trying to make a game behave like the real world requires a completely different approach from the ground up. The most obvious example is EVE Online:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10/28/eve-evolved-top-ten-ganks-scams-heists-and-
events/

If you want a real world like experience, then you are playing the wrong game.

And as a side note, one of the original big selling points of the games was “play they way you want to play”. The whole LW adding and the removing content is anathema to that. And like I said above, it should be obvious the real goal has been to sell more gems.

Well considering you took one line out of my entire post….?

The LW is not anathema to playing how you want to play. You can play anyway you want to play, you just can’t freaking time travel to events that have already passed!

Do you really, honestly, think that a developer saying “you can play the way you want to play” meant that you can do whatever the hell you want? What if I want to be able to ride a mount? OMG it’s not the way I want to play you liars!! What if I want to be able to level up to 80 strictly doing my personal story, nope can’t do that either.

You are really stretching to make your point.

I was not saying that this fantasy world they’ve created is supposed to be like real life. Yes, in real life you can take a crap on the floor too, how come I don’t have a Take a Crap skill?

We were specifically talking about the Living Story and what they are trying to accomplish with it. It isn’t the “Living Story that Gets Archived for Later Access”, it’s supposed to try and mimic a timeline of events. That’s it.

You can try to take the things Anetand I and other posters are saying out of context all you want, but that doesn’t change the fact that the Living Story events not being accessible when they finish is by design and that people like me enjoy it thoroughly.

Maybe play the game and you wouldn’t have to spend so much time complaining about how you can’t redo content you missed when you weren’t playing.

Draknar.574

8We were specifically talking about the Living Story and what they are trying to accomplish with it.

No, I was discussing LW in general, not just the story aspect. And so far, the story itself does even qualify as lackluster. Ditto for most of the new content. Labyrinthine Cliffs has been an improvement, though I’d like to see a lot more of it. But will the Cliffs even be accessible after the event I over?

Regardless, anet should be focusing on ways for new players (or players taking a break) to catch up on what has changed. Then you get your evolving world without alienating portions of the player base.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Argel.8274:

IndigoSundown.5419:

The GW2 model is not worse than a sub model. In sub model: if I don’t want to play, I feel like I wasted money. In GW2 model: if I don’t want to play I don’t play.

It’s worse if I end up spending more each month that I would with a subscription. And with the increased pressure to play every two weeks now…. Maybe they should offer a season pass that gives access to all of the special items/skins added temporarily in LW.

So don’t spend that much if you don’t want to. I prefer the option to spend only if I want to buy extras rather than to rent the game month to month.

And pressure? Over a video game? I like the game, but if I miss something it’s not a big deal. I realize that others’ mileage varies, but I wonder if the degree of rage I see over this issue is a function of taking games too seriously.

And that may be what I do. But that means that anet is alienating part of its player base, and it’s certainly valid for me to let them know about it (especially given how much I have spent on gems).

I agree with the OP as well. I stopped playing for a long time because I couldn’t keep up with the updates to the Living Story.

A system like what we saw for War in Kryta in GW1 would be perfect for my playstyle – that is, new content goes in, but is shown based on phasing, depending on where you are in the storyline. This would be difficult in GW2 for anything outdoor, since it is not an instanced game, but even something like a reflecting pool that allows you to look back on past events, similar to the one in the original Hall of Monuments would be a good way to allow you to at least play the instances that have been taken out.

Bottom line for me: this game would be perfect if I could digest the new story content at my own pace.

Just want to thank the OP for intelligently voicing something that was bugging me as well. I don’t like to miss story chapters, and I am part of this game’s community. I don’t think anyone is saying “design the game around MY problems” but rather “this is what I don’t like.”

Overall, I think anet could please everyone, if they made the effort. If they stopped removing new content, then the only issue becomes if it is possible for someone to catch up with the aggressive release schedule. On the other hand, that might allow players to focus on what was added that they like (e.g. JPs).

Let’s every day patching!!!
We like sitting in LA and seeing at message “You cannot enter to WvW while patching”!
And after that 40-60 min waste time in queue.
And after that going sleep.
“Thanks” anet!
When The Elder Scroll Online???