Guild Wars 2

Hi, I would like to ask if Destroyers in new release still will be immune to burning damage, as a Engi main, without second ascended set, I would like to know in advance so I can change the stat on my current one.

Cheers

They usually are immune to burning. I don’t see why that would change.

Becasue without a mastery or some way of mitigating this, it would cause issues for Berserkers and certain other classes. This isn’t like GW1, where we can change skills and stuff easily – a sustained period of fighting Destroyers needs something to counter the burning immunity

Sesbog.8705:

Condi burn druid rip
Condi burn engi rip
Condi burn guard rip
Condi burn war rip
Condi burn ele rip

If mobs will have immunity to burn, it will be a big mistake

I do not think it is a mistake; it is a call for variety and adaptation. One merely needs to adapt. In the OP’s case, (s)he should swap offhand pistol for shield and flamethrower for grenades, elixirgun, or toolkit. Also, he will need his Firearms Grandmaster to be Modified Ammunition.

His/Her dps will go down, but that does not mean (s)he is useless.

Except mobs in HoT aren’t immune to melee damage so the comparison isn’t the same. Plus, I found HoT mobs easier in melee with only a few exceptions.

The difference with adapting is that builds are not easily transferable here. Changing your stats and weapon and armour and traits for a series of story episodes and open world encounters is not really what GW2 is all about. It is right that such adaptation is necessary for pvp, wvw, fractals, dungeons, Liadri etc, but it would be an enormous mistake to force more casually minded players into changing things up when they suddenly become handicapped.

I understand the argument some are saying about keeping the burning immunity, but to not have some sort of mitigation against this is just folly. Whether that is a mastery, or whether that is making other conditions more powerful, I’m pretty sure Anet will have thought ahead on this one.

Randulf.7614:

Except mobs in HoT aren’t immune to melee damage so the comparison isn’t the same. Plus, I found HoT mobs easier in melee with only a few exceptions.

The difference with adapting is that builds are not easily transferable here. Changing your stats and weapon and armour and traits for a series of story episodes and open world encounters is not really what GW2 is all about. It is right that such adaptation is necessary for pvp, wvw, fractals, dungeons, Liadri etc, but it would be an enormous mistake to force more casually minded players into changing things up when they suddenly become handicapped.

I understand the argument some are saying about keeping the burning immunity, but to not have some sort of mitigation against this is just folly. Whether that is a mastery, or whether that is making other conditions more powerful, I’m pretty sure Anet will have thought ahead on this one.

But there are other conditions, fire eles do 90% of there damage through power, they are immune to burning, not the physical damage of the attack. To to MM or KH and pick a fight with a Destroyer. You will kill it. Being immune to burning will not make them immortal. I would have thought they would take more damage from Water Ele’s, and the chill condition. But saying they should not be immune to burning is silly, they are made from molten rock. You can’t burn something that is already burning! Personally I thought it was stupid that bleeds and poison work on Risen and Ghosts, but they do, same as burning on ghosts, how dose that work? I liked the immunes that mobs had in GW1. You had to thi k about what skills you where going to bring.

In GW2 it’s even easier. Change a few traits and your good to go, if your running condition gear, then gear your skills to chill and not burn.

It is that simple, I can explain it to you, I can’t understand it to you.

It’s not needed.

How far will this “cater to me” mentality go? It is the most normal thing in games to adapt to the enemy you are facing, instead of having that enemy made easy for you. I’ve been playing games since the 80’s and I have never experienced it any other way. There is no one way to kill everything. There are enough enemies in core Tyria that are immune to burning. I’ve never heard people demand that immunity be changed because it screws up their burn builds. Use skills that don’t do burning. Change your weapons. Change traits that focus on burning damage. You don’t need to completely gear your character anew to beat these enemies. This “my way or the highway” demand is ridiculous. There is no class in the game that relies solely on burning, which skills do only burning damage without exception. These enemies being immune is not a mistake. Catering to those who refuse to adapt to the situation, that would be the biggest mistake of all. It will set a precedent that will only make things worse. It seems as if some people think they decide how games function. Newsflash: you do not. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to go the Fire Islands. Just stay away if it bothers you so much.

it makes sense that destroyers are immune to burning, I wish GW2 had more mobs with specific resistances

I’ll probably park a toon on the fire islands, specifically designed for fighting fire critters.

It is fine.

They specifically redesigned traits and mastries and removed the costs associated with respeccing in order to bring back some of the first game’s concepts of tweaking your build around the enemies you face.

Having a flamethrower be equally effecive against fire elementals and bandits simply constrains the design space for enemies, eventually resulting on a homogenous bestiary of clone enemies that are just reskinned versions of the same thing over and over.

Your condi gear is equally effective if you swap a couple traits and skills out, and if it isn’t, you should be asking for alternatives in the form of skills and traits, the things you’re meant to switch up regularly that also work well with gear you can’t change out as easily, rather than asking for the enemies to be changed so that you don’t have to change anything ever.

Sesbog.8705:

TheNecrosanct.4028:

There are enough enemies in core Tyria that are immune to burning. I’ve never heard people demand that immunity be changed because it screws up their burn builds.

Core “burn” maps ONLY for hearts.

As if that makes any difference. So killing them is also required for some hearts. They’re still out there and whether you’ve done the hearts or not, they’ll still attack you if you come too close. Dredge are immune to blind. Killing them is also needed for some hearts, but you’ll also find them where there are no hearts. Many hylek are immune to poison.

And in case you hadn’t heard: there will be heart quests on the new map. Still, the point is entirely moot.

Its maybe a streach but back in GW1 there were conditions like Beeding, Poison and Disease that only affected so called “fleshy” monsters. Skeletons, Jade construct, Asura golems, spirits, ghosts etc., there is whole list on the wiki, weren’t affected, sure that was hurting some skills, but in GW1 there were always something other to pick and most impotantly: you supposed to always have a party to pick up the slack.

Now in GW2 Anet streamlined it to: IF it can have a condition, it can bleed and be poisoned. That being said, destroyers just like in GW1 are immune to burning which was fine, as they were some rare mobs that pop up on few maps, but now if we are to focus on them in new living world, maybe they will get the same treatment as bleeding and poisoned ghosts, after all some event destroyers in Mount Maelstrom, or Sorrows Embrace boss aren’t immune to burning.

Of course I can respect the design decision to stick to non burning destroyers, it gives some flavor to dragons minions, maybe icebrood or just the ice creatures should convert chill into might as their flavor, well its an idea.

I made this thread just to find out if destroyers staying immune to burning in new realese, because I want to prepare beforehand, now that we have Anthology of Heroes stat change recipe for ascended armor.

Randulf.7614:

Becasue without a mastery or some way of mitigating this, it would cause issues for Berserkers and certain other classes. This isn’t like GW1, where we can change skills and stuff easily – a sustained period of fighting Destroyers needs something to counter the burning immunity

From what I remember, no class relies solely on burning to do their damage.

Sesbog.8705:

Condi burn druid rip
Condi burn engi rip
Condi burn guard rip
Condi burn war rip
Condi burn ele rip

If mobs will have immunity to burn, it will be a big mistake

Good…. gear up properly like the rest of us.

A way bigger problem would be:

DESTROYER HUSK!

;D

Immune do burn, high armor! ;D

But at topic:
I’m fine with it, though I play DH and Condi engi. I can and will adapt, period.

I suspect there may be a mastery to allow burning to affect destroyer minions. Not a strong suspicion, because ANet has botched plenty of other game-balance issues before, but the devs frequently surprise me with how thoughtful they can be, at times.

I was already thinking of this topic when I saw the trailer. It seems like an oversight to have lots of burning introduced with the warrior elite, then cripple it with following content. So, yeah, it seems like a proper balance issue to bring up, so I don’t get what all the counter-whinging is about.

If the devs leave burning out as an oversight, no biggie. I’ve got a legion of characters to use, so I’m comfortable switching to those.

I’d be fine with a burning immunity as long as there’s a weakness to make up for it.

Guild Wars 1: oh, Destroyers are immune to burning, let’s change my skills.
Guild Wars 2: oh, Destroyers are immune to burning, better make a post of this bug, I don’t want to have to change my way of playing, I want anet to change to game to cater to my playstyle!

Sesbog.8705:

Condi burn druid rip
Condi burn engi rip
Condi burn guard rip
Condi burn war rip
Condi burn ele rip

If mobs will have immunity to burn, it will be a big mistake

Power based builds have struggled with Mordremoth’s Husks since Living World Season 2.

Players should be incentivized to develop new builds. It keeps the game fresh. The OP seems to be complaining that he has an ascended condi set that will be “useless”. My advice: Keep it. Get an exotic power based set if you can’t afford an ascended set and fall back on that until the Primordus story is over.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Sesbog.8705:

Condi burn druid rip
Condi burn engi rip
Condi burn guard rip
Condi burn war rip
Condi burn ele rip

If mobs will have immunity to burn, it will be a big mistake

Classes do.not need to burn things to do damage. Go power stay happy, or I don’t know, use other conditions besides burn. There are many out there,

RIP player intelligence.

It will be like trying to melee in HoT before you know what to expect, I quickly changed to a rifle on my warrior in HoT so I’d last longer, as untill I found out what worked Vs some mobs it was better to have a back up of range them down.

Adapted and over come, stay stagnant and die.

Exactly. My goto ranged on my warrior is LB but when I am fighting the megadestroyer I change to a rifle (with much grimacing but it is not like I have a choice). There are some build changes I can not do on short notice (quick! the zerker meta is no longer!) but some I can. For example, I make a habit of usually carrying one (or 2 if it can use either hand) of every weapon I can use on a character just so I have those weapon skills if I need them.

Randulf.7614:

Except mobs in HoT aren’t immune to melee damage so the comparison isn’t the same. Plus, I found HoT mobs easier in melee with only a few exceptions.

The difference with adapting is that builds are not easily transferable here. Changing your stats and weapon and armour and traits for a series of story episodes and open world encounters is not really what GW2 is all about. It is right that such adaptation is necessary for pvp, wvw, fractals, dungeons, Liadri etc, but it would be an enormous mistake to force more casually minded players into changing things up when they suddenly become handicapped.

I understand the argument some are saying about keeping the burning immunity, but to not have some sort of mitigation against this is just folly. Whether that is a mastery, or whether that is making other conditions more powerful, I’m pretty sure Anet will have thought ahead on this one.

Hmm, a mastery would be interesting. Did anyone else notice that the new mastery we are getting is 3 points, not 2?

Amaimon.7823:

Guild Wars 1: oh, Destroyers are immune to burning, let’s change my skills.
Guild Wars 2: oh, Destroyers are immune to burning, better make a post of this bug, I don’t want to have to change my way of playing, I want anet to change to game to cater to my playstyle!

Yeah because gw1 and gw2 totally have the same skill system and build variety…
Not saying destroyer burning immunity has to go but this is just a bad comparison.
Also mobs in gw1 often had weaknesses to make up for their strenghts.

I’d say make the destroyers more vulnerable to the chill condition, maybe even take damage from it. Not only is this more balanced, it also makes sense.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

I’d be fine with a burning immunity as long as there’s a weakness to make up for it.

That would be interesting as other games have done that.

Ayrilana.1396:

From what I remember, no class relies solely on burning to do their damage.

RIP dire condi guard, the hero we deserved.

On topic I wouldn’t care about destroyers being immune to burning if other dragon minions had other immunities (e.g. risen immune to bleeding, mordy’s minions immune to poison, icebrood immune to chill, etc) but I remember one annoying thing when I was new and leveling was that two of the mob types, dredge and destroyers, were immune to two of the few conditions guardian has access to and nothing else had any immunities.

But on the other hand, it’s now possible to poison an arrow cart and bleed a ballista, so who’s to say destroyers won’t suddenly be susceptible to burning? I’d prefer the former tbh, but it’s a bit late for that.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Amaimon.7823:

Guild Wars 1: oh, Destroyers are immune to burning, let’s change my skills.
Guild Wars 2: oh, Destroyers are immune to burning, better make a post of this bug, I don’t want to have to change my way of playing, I want anet to change to game to cater to my playstyle!

Yeah because gw1 and gw2 totally have the same skill system and build variety…
Not saying destroyer burning immunity has to go but this is just a bad comparison.
Also mobs in gw1 often had weaknesses to make up for their strenghts.

I’d say make the destroyers more vulnerable to the chill condition, maybe even take damage from it. Not only is this more balanced, it also makes sense.

Actually, your skill variety goes in reverse. in GW1 you had to return to a safe space before you could swap your skills. Now, the only class that relies for burning on all its skills is the elementalist, which can just swap to earth or air when they would run into a destroyer. In case of engineer.. well.. just don’t equip the flamethrower. thats all.

But yea, I agree, to compensate for burning resistance, making chill more effective would be good. Maybe even have chill have an extra debuffing effect.

Just a shame that the only real condi that Berserker can do is burning and it will not be useful, but My Berserker will still just steamroll through them even without it xD

While the berserker as a whole is fire-themed, Skull Grinder does bleeding and confusion (and no burning), and a few of the other melee primal burst skills are pure power – a berserker that doesn’t rely on burning shouldn’t be too hard to do.

More generally speaking, GW1 had much more in the way of enemies having weaknesses, strengths, and outright immunities, including to direct damage (Destroyers had very high armour against fire as well as burning immunity, for instance). The issue is, as Randulf pointed out, that in GW1 you needed little or no gear re-investment to change builds, while in GW2 it could be significant even before Ascended entered the picture.

However, I don’t think that monsters having distinctive features is where the problem lies.

Do ‘t forget The Great Destroyer had no immunity to burning. And the Destroyer of Life in the Destinys Edge book was killed using an arrow of Primordial Fire. I like Windu’s solution, but there is precedence for overcoming the mechanics in both gameplay and lore (sort of).

I’d consider the Great Destroyer to be an oversight.

The Destroyer of Life being killed with Primordial Fire counts, but that’s more of an exotic fiery substance along the lines of Divine Fire, not something I’d expect PCs to casually have access to.

Windu’s solution would work thematically (GW1 destroyers had reduced armour to cold) but it wouldn’t really help against the complaint: professions like guardians and berserkers that have a high reliance on burning for condition damage don’t have much opportunity to switch to chill instead.

draxynnic.3719:

I’d consider the Great Destroyer to be an oversight.

The Destroyer of Life being killed with Primordial Fire counts, but that’s more of an exotic fiery substance along the lines of Divine Fire, not something I’d expect PCs to casually have access to.

Windu’s solution would work thematically (GW1 destroyers had reduced armour to cold) but it wouldn’t really help against the complaint: professions like guardians and berserkers that have a high reliance on burning for condition damage don’t have much opportunity to switch to chill instead.

But they can switch to power damage. or just have another exotic set like I do. I have my Ascended sinister set for when I want to melt things with conditions, and my exotic Zurker set when I need to just do out right DPS damage. the only thing warriors and guards who are running condition damage sets is the extra damage from crits. Not a big loss. I fail to see the problem.

The design is set — whatever it is …there’s not enough time for them to make a change. So let’s wait to see if destroyers are immune to burning. GW1 had tons of foes with various immunities; GW2 does not.

yeh i think a mastery that gives us the ability to inflict burning to destroyers would be a nice solution (if they even are immune)

TheNecrosanct.4028:

How far will this “cater to me” mentality go? [SNIP] If you don’t like it, you don’t have to go the Fire Islands. Just stay away if it bothers you so much.

This.^ I actually laughed out loud at how true this is. Spot on TheNecrosanct!

Sesbog.8705:

Condi burn druid rip
Condi burn engi rip
Condi burn guard rip
Condi burn war rip
Condi burn ele rip

If mobs will have immunity to burn, it will be a big mistake

Seriously? How did all those builds become obsolete because of one map? And a big mistake? How is it a big mistake to make people think about playing a new way?

All I can say is that I hope you can suffer through until those that are able to adapt put their builds on Metabattle.

Sesbog.8705:

Condi burn druid rip
Condi burn engi rip
Condi burn guard rip
Condi burn war rip
Condi burn ele rip

If mobs will have immunity to burn, it will be a big mistake

Yeah. Things should be balanced around niche builds… or not.

jheryn.8390:

TheNecrosanct.4028:

How far will this “cater to me” mentality go? [SNIP] If you don’t like it, you don’t have to go the Fire Islands. Just stay away if it bothers you so much.

This.^ I actually laughed out loud at how true this is. Spot on TheNecrosanct!

Sesbog.8705:

Condi burn druid rip
Condi burn engi rip
Condi burn guard rip
Condi burn war rip
Condi burn ele rip

If mobs will have immunity to burn, it will be a big mistake

Seriously? How did all those builds become obsolete because of one map? And a big mistake? How is it a big mistake to make people think about playing a new way?

All I can say is that I hope you can suffer through until those that are able to adapt put their builds on Metabattle.

Metabattle doesn’t have general PvE builds… but yeah, my response to that was similar to yours.

A condi burn engi can change into using other conditions very easily without changing gear (worst would be if they have runes/sigils that rely on burning. I’ve played up to now without having runes and sigils in most of my weapon and armour sets at all – that’s not a huge handicap).

Warriors only really became burn-oriented with berserker, although longbow will be impacted. Otherwise… some primal burst abilities will have reduced effect. However, there are still ways to make it work.

Elementalists have access to non-burning conditions, and fire attunement is as much power-based as Burning-based (if not more).

Guardians… okay, condi burn guardians are going to have problems.

However, in the worst-case scenario: the most popular condi sets for PvE also have a significant power component, so in the worst case scenario people can just build for power and live with the fact that they have +condi damage rather than +ferocity. Apart from guardians and some warrior builds, each of those will have access to some non-burning conditions, so the +condi damage won’t go entirely to waste, it just wont be as good as it is in other places.

If there’s someone rocking a guardian wearing Trailblazer, Rabid or Dire or something like that, then yeah, they’ll have a hard time. However, I would argue that such a player chose poorly: any “condition-based” guardian should really be a power/condi hybrid or they’re shooting themselves in the foot.

draxynnic.3719:

jheryn.8390:

TheNecrosanct.4028:

How far will this “cater to me” mentality go? [SNIP] If you don’t like it, you don’t have to go the Fire Islands. Just stay away if it bothers you so much.

This.^ I actually laughed out loud at how true this is. Spot on TheNecrosanct!

Sesbog.8705:

Condi burn druid rip
Condi burn engi rip
Condi burn guard rip
Condi burn war rip
Condi burn ele rip

If mobs will have immunity to burn, it will be a big mistake

Seriously? How did all those builds become obsolete because of one map? And a big mistake? How is it a big mistake to make people think about playing a new way?

All I can say is that I hope you can suffer through until those that are able to adapt put their builds on Metabattle.

Metabattle doesn’t have general PvE builds… but yeah, my response to that was similar to yours.

[SNIP]

LOL. I know this, I just used Metabattle because it is easily recognizable.

I agree with everything you said. Part of my fun is figuring out what builds work. To be honest, even the best of builds have their drawbacks in certain situations. I am glad I am able to adapt in those situations on my own without having to rely on the “meta” anything.

Condi burn druid rip
Then switch to axes to go frost?

Condi burn engi rip
Then dont equip the flamethrower, use the grenade kit, or just the pistols/rifle/hammer

Condi burn guard rip
Switch to another weapon, easy. Utility skillbar isnt locked

Condi burn war rip
Switch to swords, bleed instead of burn

Condi burn ele rip
burn is really only half of one of four elements. Switch to air or earth.

(Spoilerz) they are burnable bleed able poison able – everything

Yes, it is quite lame. More faceroll content where you dont need to adjust your builds.

Since they are part plant now it makes sense.

Malediktus.3740:

Yes, it is quite lame. More faceroll content where you dont need to adjust your builds.

Game designers who actually take into account multiple play styles? Scandalous. Sorry, not sorry.

I did note the added “vulnerable to chill” that they added, so I’m curious how that will work out for characters who have it (not warriors…).

I dont think the vulnerable to chill makes a difference. The trash mobs die so fast already if you play berserker stats. They seem to have low health/toughness. Even the champions die fast with the exception of the jade armor boss

Malediktus.3740:

I don’t think the vulnerable to chill makes a difference. The trash mobs die so fast already if you play berserker stats. They seem to have low health/toughness. Even the champions die fast with the exception of the jade armor boss

I suppose? Then again, after Mordremoth’s HP sponge critters, I’m fine with the HP balance swinging back in the other direction. It makes me wonder if there’s a study out there on the optimal kill times for MMO combat engagements. Hm.

If fights are going to be punishing, then they need to be short, which means smaller HP pools. If they’re going to be long and tactical, then enemy damage needs to be scaled appropriately, and that’s something we didn’t get with Magus Falls mobs.