Guild Wars 2

I have been chuckling at all of the self-righteous people stating that its so easy and so obvious. I’m glad that this experience has been easy for you. But telling people who are struggling with new content that it is actually really easy and L2P might not actually be what you want to do if you want this game to continue far into the future. GW2 needs to appeal to a variety of different level of player in order to be successful.

And just to clarify: it isn’t normal gameplay for NPCs to tell you how to play the game. It might happen once in a great while, but if people aren’t used to something happening (also like extra buttons suddenly appearing or entirely new mechanics suddenly appearing), they might miss it. And since only a tiny amount of player come to the forums, what do you imagine that most players who can’t figure out a game do?

This is stupidity on Anet’s part, not the players.

Djinn.9245:

I have been chuckling at all of the self-righteous people stating that its so easy and so obvious. I’m glad that this experience has been easy for you. But telling people who are struggling with new content that it is actually really easy and L2P might not actually be what you want to do if you want this game to continue far into the future. GW2 needs to appeal to a variety of different level of player in order to be successful.

And just to clarify: it isn’t normal gameplay for NPCs to tell you how to play the game. It might happen once in a great while, but if people aren’t used to something happening (also like extra buttons suddenly appearing or entirely new mechanics suddenly appearing), they might miss it. And since only a tiny amount of player come to the forums, what do you imagine that most players who can’t figure out a game do?

This is stupidity on Anet’s part, not the players.

It’s VERY normal game play for NPCs to tell you what to do. It starts in the tutorial and there are examples of it throughout every aspect of the game. If you haven’t noticed it, you’re not paying attention.

Everything from watch the ledges, to NPCs telling you the area of the zone you’re about to go into is more dangerous than what you’ve experienced so far.

There are plenty of areas in the game where NPCs tell you exactly what to do.

Serval.6458:

How could you reach her without using the exact same method to break the shields on the mobs earlier?

So, funny story. I broke the bloodstone pillars that came with the elementals.

They didn’t respawn.

I had to wait for some unstable bloodstone shards to pop out and slap the remaining elemental to break the shield in order to move on.

When I did use the counter-magic skill, I may have just been in a lucky spot, or whatever bomf effect it gave on activation broke the shield anyway, but I don’t recall any redbloodbeamofdeath breaking shields for me.
I didn’t put that together until the justicar fight, when I put it together that counter-magic gave me the redbloodbeamofdeath and that I could chain her through it.

So, yeah, I could see where people missed the mechanic. I also didn’t consider it that difficult, and it wasn’t nearly as punishing as the consequence for failing to fly off during the final Mordy fight.
/shrug

Ardenwolfe.8590:

But it is easy if you simply pay attention to what the NPCs are telling you. . . .
.

As most of what the NPC’s say throughout LS is a pile of ‘hot air’ filling in for not having actual playable content, expecting people to suddenly pay attention to a particular bit of waffle is expecting a bit much- especially as most of the time I find their drone annoying and have NPC voices turned down low.

Also, dragging that red thing through the path isn’t that easy as it doesn’t appear to be as long for some toons as others- I literally had to stand in the path then slowly creep backwards until it only looked like i was in the path but the shield misses and the red line didn’t break off as being too far away from it- and that only after several bounces and deaths as the graphics edges are poorly defined.

Actually, writing or saying mechanics in an all direct and clear way is more babysitting than insinuating them in a intuitive way. The pre-encounter doesn’t fail because lack of babysitting, but because of lack of care in the practical application of the mechanics.

Here’s a good video that “explains” this way better than me. Enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM

RexxarTheHunter.3926:

In case someone else gets stuck on it, here’s how your break her shield:

1) get hit by the bloodstone – this will form a stream between you and the bloodstone, empty your endurence bar and low you down.
2) use the new Mastery skill – this will keep the stream active and remove the endurence denial and slow effect so you can move freely.
3) walk outside of the circle she forms in with her ring-shaped path when she spins around.
4) Get her to walk through the stream – once you hit her with it, it will deplete her shield down quite quickly. It’s a good strategy to follow her path a bit to keep her in the stream.

that’s how you remove her shield!
I got stuck on it for a bit so I thought I should post the solution here

I’ve been destroying the middle crap for over half an hour and none of the NPCs will are helping.

Only once has it been able to be hit, all other times even when the bloodstone shard in the middle is down, she’s STILL invulnerable and that makes NO sense.

Half an hour for a player doing all the right things is far more torture than Anet should ask of any player.

This is painful, seriously, painful, my fingers are almost numb and HURT.

Anet, you failed on this garbage without instructions that make any sense.

I am so horridly tired of “guessing” at your silly mechanics that hardly ever work and hurt to boot.

Now, after 40 minutes (I came back after posting this), the skill to kill the bloostone shard isn’t working AT ALL.

Bugs are killing IT let alone gaming. None of you can figure out how to document your code so you can fix it later? What the heck?

This isn’t a game sequence, this is damage to hands and fingers for no reason.

What’s just as bad is the text speech that marks that the skill isn’t working (my speech bubble) never shows in ANY screenshot, what’s up with that, ANET?

atheria.2837:

RexxarTheHunter.3926:

In case someone else gets stuck on it, here’s how your break her shield:

1) get hit by the bloodstone – this will form a stream between you and the bloodstone, empty your endurence bar and low you down.
2) use the new Mastery skill – this will keep the stream active and remove the endurence denial and slow effect so you can move freely.
3) walk outside of the circle she forms in with her ring-shaped path when she spins around.
4) Get her to walk through the stream – once you hit her with it, it will deplete her shield down quite quickly. It’s a good strategy to follow her path a bit to keep her in the stream.

that’s how you remove her shield!
I got stuck on it for a bit so I thought I should post the solution here

I’ve been destroying the middle crap for over half an hour and none of the NPCs will are helping.

Only once has it been able to be hit, all other times even when the bloodstone shard in the middle is down, she’s STILL invulnerable and that makes NO sense.

Half an hour for a player doing all the right things is far more torture than Anet should ask of any player.

This is painful, seriously, painful, my fingers are almost numb and HURT.

Anet, you failed on this garbage without instructions that make any sense.

I am so horridly tired of “guessing” at your silly mechanics that hardly ever work and hurt to boot.

Now, after 40 minutes (I came back after posting this), the skill to kill the bloostone shard isn’t working AT ALL.

Bugs are killing IT let alone gaming. None of you can figure out how to document your code so you can fix it later? What the heck?

This isn’t a game sequence, this is damage to hands and fingers for no reason.

What’s just as bad is the text speech that marks that the skill isn’t working (my speech bubble) never shows in ANY screenshot, what’s up with that, ANET?

There were instructions. Each section eased you into the mechanics. Marjory even told you what to do.

Ayrilana.1396:

atheria.2837:

RexxarTheHunter.3926:

In case someone else gets stuck on it, here’s how your break her shield:

1) get hit by the bloodstone – this will form a stream between you and the bloodstone, empty your endurence bar and low you down.
2) use the new Mastery skill – this will keep the stream active and remove the endurence denial and slow effect so you can move freely.
3) walk outside of the circle she forms in with her ring-shaped path when she spins around.
4) Get her to walk through the stream – once you hit her with it, it will deplete her shield down quite quickly. It’s a good strategy to follow her path a bit to keep her in the stream.

that’s how you remove her shield!
I got stuck on it for a bit so I thought I should post the solution here

I’ve been destroying the middle crap for over half an hour and none of the NPCs will are helping.

Only once has it been able to be hit, all other times even when the bloodstone shard in the middle is down, she’s STILL invulnerable and that makes NO sense.

Half an hour for a player doing all the right things is far more torture than Anet should ask of any player.

This is painful, seriously, painful, my fingers are almost numb and HURT.

Anet, you failed on this garbage without instructions that make any sense.

I am so horridly tired of “guessing” at your silly mechanics that hardly ever work and hurt to boot.

Now, after 40 minutes (I came back after posting this), the skill to kill the bloostone shard isn’t working AT ALL.

Bugs are killing IT let alone gaming. None of you can figure out how to document your code so you can fix it later? What the heck?

This isn’t a game sequence, this is damage to hands and fingers for no reason.

What’s just as bad is the text speech that marks that the skill isn’t working (my speech bubble) never shows in ANY screenshot, what’s up with that, ANET?

There were instructions. Each section eased you into the mechanics. Marjory even told you what to do.

So the NPC’s just standing here are “as intended”?

And the instructions don’t matter if the skill isn’t working, at all, stops after 20 minutes.

So don’t tell me I didn’t follow instructions, I did. This is a sorry excuse for a fight scene.

atheria.2837:

Ayrilana.1396:

atheria.2837:

RexxarTheHunter.3926:

In case someone else gets stuck on it, here’s how your break her shield:

1) get hit by the bloodstone – this will form a stream between you and the bloodstone, empty your endurence bar and low you down.
2) use the new Mastery skill – this will keep the stream active and remove the endurence denial and slow effect so you can move freely.
3) walk outside of the circle she forms in with her ring-shaped path when she spins around.
4) Get her to walk through the stream – once you hit her with it, it will deplete her shield down quite quickly. It’s a good strategy to follow her path a bit to keep her in the stream.

that’s how you remove her shield!
I got stuck on it for a bit so I thought I should post the solution here

I’ve been destroying the middle crap for over half an hour and none of the NPCs will are helping.

Only once has it been able to be hit, all other times even when the bloodstone shard in the middle is down, she’s STILL invulnerable and that makes NO sense.

Half an hour for a player doing all the right things is far more torture than Anet should ask of any player.

This is painful, seriously, painful, my fingers are almost numb and HURT.

Anet, you failed on this garbage without instructions that make any sense.

I am so horridly tired of “guessing” at your silly mechanics that hardly ever work and hurt to boot.

Now, after 40 minutes (I came back after posting this), the skill to kill the bloostone shard isn’t working AT ALL.

Bugs are killing IT let alone gaming. None of you can figure out how to document your code so you can fix it later? What the heck?

This isn’t a game sequence, this is damage to hands and fingers for no reason.

What’s just as bad is the text speech that marks that the skill isn’t working (my speech bubble) never shows in ANY screenshot, what’s up with that, ANET?

There were instructions. Each section eased you into the mechanics. Marjory even told you what to do.

So the NPC’s just standing here are “as intended”?

And the instructions don’t matter if the skill isn’t working, at all, stops after 20 minutes.

So don’t tell me I didn’t follow instructions, I did. This is a sorry excuse for a fight scene.

The skill does not stop working. It sounds as if you were attacking the bloodstone shard thinking that destroying it would remove the shield.

Ayrilana.1396:

It sounds as if you were attacking the bloodstone shard thinking that destroying it would remove the shield.

Not an unreasonable assumption, given meta-gaming thought and a history of RPGs. :P
It took a short while for me to notice the faded pink-purple Counter Magic button that clued me in that I was supposed to do something else. It does sort of blend into the background, and I don’t yet have a keybind for it. (I should fix that tonight.)

To be honest, I missed any context of Marjory spewing out the fight strat, and a mishap with the bloodstone elementals before then led to me waiting for them to chip off unstable bloodstone shards, as they do elsewhere in Bloodstone Fen.

Do the explanations say that you have to cross the red beam through the enemies?

Ardid.7203:

Do the explanations say that you have to cross the red beam through the enemies?

Yes.

Rauderi.8706:

Ayrilana.1396:

It sounds as if you were attacking the bloodstone shard thinking that destroying it would remove the shield.

Not an unreasonable assumption, given meta-gaming thought and a history of RPGs. :P
It took a short while for me to notice the faded pink-purple Counter Magic button that clued me in that I was supposed to do something else. It does sort of blend into the background, and I don’t yet have a keybind for it. (I should fix that tonight.)

To be honest, I missed any context of Marjory spewing out the fight strat, and a mishap with the bloodstone elementals before then led to me waiting for them to chip off unstable bloodstone shards, as they do elsewhere in Bloodstone Fen.

It’s bound to the “-” key by default. Given how quickly you need to activate it, I would most definitely rebind it.

Actually, I will post a screenshot of the in-game text telling you specifically how to bring down the shield.

Ayrilana.1396:

Actually, I will post a screenshot of the in-game text telling you specifically how to bring down the shield.

As many people have pointed out, the NPCs babble about a lot of things – why would I suddenly think they have something useful to say? And I’m not going to read chat during a fight that I’m in by myself.

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Actually, I will post a screenshot of the in-game text telling you specifically how to bring down the shield.

As many people have pointed out, the NPCs babble about a lot of things – why would I suddenly think they have something useful to say? And I’m not going to read chat during a fight that I’m in by myself.

Well if players choose to ignore hints from a specific area of the game, such as NPC chats, then it is completely on the players for figuring out how to do the encounters and in no way means the encounters are badly designed.

I hope this isn’t dumbed down. I’m not the greatest player, and I had some difficulty doing it the first time with my Guardian. While fighting Adrienne I realized that I was probably over thinking the mechanics and stopped to read the tasks. That’s when I noticed that Marjory and Canach were pretty much telling me what needed to be done. The White Mantle rangers were pretty stationary and could mostly be avoided. I’m looking forward to doing this next with a Necromancer and Mesmer.

There are some great tips in this thread. I will definitely be using them. I have already re-bound the special action key. I wish I had done that sooner.

RoxBuryNine.4210:

I hope this isn’t dumbed down.

I don’t see a reason for it to be. While the conveyance isn’t ‘great’, it’s more than sufficient to complete the instance without it. And, apparently, the NPCs tell you what to do (even if I didn’t notice. :P)

There are some great tips in this thread. I will definitely be using them. I have already re-bound the special action key. I wish I had done that sooner.

I’ll stop being lazy and do that sometime, myself. After the jade construct encounters, I really regret not having a faster keybind for it. But I’ll probably still be lazy, because I don’t want to update my .bat files. :P

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

All in all, it’s not a terribly difficult mechanic to understand, but the tutorial they put in to teach it is actually quite misleading as to what you need to do and is actually doing more harm than good IMO.

Yeah, I think that’s why this is confusing people. I beat the elementals without having to cross the beams over them, so I figured the technique to break the shield was to just channel the Counter-Magic skill, then destroy the bloodstone. I was confused for a bit when I noticed that wasn’t helping against the Justiciar.

The mechanic is fine. The instructions are there. But they are not well put, and they aren’t correctly exemplified.

As always, show >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>explain. Right now, the “tutorial” is showing you need only to press the button and then attack.

Easiest way to know is not working properly? People still keep misunderstanding it.

Mechanic and instructions are fine.

Players are introduced to the mechanic in two phases. The first phase is with the shards where they learn to use the command to reflect the damage. The second phase has players use the beam between them and the shards to disable the shields of the golems or whatever they were. The NPC’s told the player about this through audio and in-game text.

Part of playing games is to overcome challenges. There’s no need to dumb down the story instance and hold players hands who don’t want to apply a little critical thinking. If you rush through the instance while ignoring everything then chances are you’re going to miss the hints that Anet tends to leave as to what the mechanics are. If players choose to not analyze what they have learned, including the situation in front of them, then they are going to have a bad time.

Ardid.7203:

The mechanic is fine. The instructions are there. But they are not well put, and they aren’t correctly exemplified.

As always, show > explain. Right now, the “tutorial” is showing you need only to press the button and then attack.

Easiest way to know is not working properly? People still keep misunderstanding it.

Indeed.

On the one hand, the instance didn’t convey everything as clearly as I would say is “good design”, but I’m not sure how much clearer ANet could have made it without it being legitimate hand-holding.

And it’s way better than some spots in Season 2. Geez, some of those instances were terrible on conveyance.

I killed all the elementals without ever making the beam pass through them. That is not consistent with the following fight. All they need to do is to make sure the golems don’t die unless you do cross the stream through them.

Make an elemental stay far from the stone and then make a second one spawn between you and the stone while you aproach to kill the first. Show clearly the second one gets his armor detroyed while the first still stands.

You don’t need to explain anything. That marjorie dialogue could even dissapear, as long as the tutorial gets fixed.

Ardid.7203:

I killed all the elementals without ever making the beam pass through them. That is not consistent with the following fight. All they need to do is to make sure the golems don’t die unless you do cross the stream through them.

Make an elemental stay far from the stone and then make a second one spawn between you and the stone while you aproach to kill the first. Show clearly the second one gets his armor detroyed while the first still stands.

You don’t need to explain anything. That marjorie dialogue could even dissapear, as long as the tutorial gets fixed.

They did pass through. What you likely did was attack them while stacked on the shard. Eventually they did pass through the beam but you couldn’t see it because it was small on the screen. It is consistent with the boss fight. The only difference with the boss is that she goes around the room in a circle rather than come to you if you stack on the shard.

Your example is a visual way of showing the mechanic rather than it revealed or hinted through the dialogue. The issue though is that you will still have players that will not understand it just as there seems to be players who did not understand when it was hinted in the dialogue.

Giving too many hints and such would just come off as holding players’ hands.

I figured it out too. Not everyone did, nor everyone will. Not everyone is doing it. AND IS NOT AN INTENTIONAL PUZZLE. It is an error, and it has to be fixed.

I get the elementals in the guiding fight “Eventually did pass through the beam but you couldn’t see it because it was small on the screen.” Since you can’t see it, the result is not consistent. A huge part of good design is avoiding this kind of problems.

Do you realize you are DEFENDING an unintentional error, just because you were “smarter” (or luckier) than other people?

Ardid.7203:

I figured it out too. Not everyone did, nor everyone will. Not everyone is doing it. AND IS NOT AN INTENTIONAL PUZZLE. It is an error, and it has to be fixed.

I get the elementals in the guiding fight “Eventually did pass through the beam but you couldn’t see it because it was small on the screen.” Since you can’t see it, the result is not consistent. A huge part of good design is avoiding this kind of problems.

Do you realize you are DEFENDING an unintentional error, just because you were “smarter” (or luckier) than other people?

An error that exists on the players end.

hmm i dont understand the trouble beating her….iv done it with 10 of my characters never had the trouble of beating her ….and knocking her shield off…
nothing to brag… like i truly had no trouble …

So the “hidden beam” people don’t notice while killing the elementals is intentional?

It’s not “hidden” but the length of the beam changing based on your distance to the shard is intentional.

Chiming in here. While it didn’t take me too long to figure out the fight with Adrienne, I did have a few moments of confusion. As others have said, the elementals spawn in such a way as they get caught by the beam just by standing adjacent to the crystals. Many players won’t even see the beam (I thought it was a small circular aoe at first myself).

It took me a few presses of the counter button before I noticed the beam. From THAT point it wasn’t hard to make the leap to “Oh, I’ve got a laser tether, I should try hitting her with that.” Still, the elemental fight is, as far as teaching the mechanics goes, less than an ideal lead-up. Move them both a bit further from the crystals, make players move far enough away that they’ll actually see the beam clearly.

Onlysaneman.9612:

Chiming in here. While it didn’t take me too long to figure out the fight with Adrienne, I did have a few moments of confusion. As others have said, the elementals spawn in such a way as they get caught by the beam just by standing adjacent to the crystals. Many players won’t even see the beam (I thought it was a small circular aoe at first myself).

It took me a few presses of the counter button before I noticed the beam. From THAT point it wasn’t hard to make the leap to “Oh, I’ve got a laser tether, I should try hitting her with that.” Still, the elemental fight is, as far as teaching the mechanics goes, less than an ideal lead-up. Move them both a bit further from the crystals, make players move far enough away that they’ll actually see the beam clearly.

Well Anet could add a knock back field to them of something like 200-300 units.

Thta would be perfect, indeed.

Thanks for this.

In my case 3 things made this fight confusing:
1) With the earlier golems I’d waited until they were close to me and then activated the Counter Magic skill, and that removed their shields. So I assume that’s how it worked.
2) When I used the same tactic here – activating the beam, walking very slowly until I was just outside her circle and then pressing the Counter Magic button just as she hit the beam she’d say “This is impossible! Magic is being drained from my shield!” which lead me to believe what I’d done had worked and it was just taking more ‘hits’ than the previous enemies to completely clear the shield.
3) The only thing missing from the way I now thought it worked was a counter to show my progress in clearing the shield. Then I saw her defiance bar never seemed to go beyond 3/4 full, so I thought 1 hit had removed 1/4 and another 3 would remove the whole shield.

It was only after I’d “hit” her another 2 or 3 times I realised it wasn’t moving, went and hid in the bottom corner and searched online for any info, which is when I found this topic.

Edit: I’ve added a very rough summary of what to do to the Wiki page for the instance. But it needs cleaning up and the rest of the walkthrough adding.

I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.

Djinn.9245:

I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.

I read what the NPC’s said in regards on how to do it.

Djinn.9245:

I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.

This is a common problem with walkthroughs though.

I often find if I look up instructions on something it will have an absurd level of detail for something I thought was obvious and then one sentence for the part I’m stuck on. Then I find another guide and it’s the complete opposite, it skips the part I thought was easy and explains the part I’m struggling with.

Ideally of course a walkthrough will explain everything clearly so each person can find the part/s they need. (Can you imagine if instructions for installing a program started with “Once the launcher comes up…” because the person writing it assumed everyone knows they need to put the CD in first and what to do if their computer doesn’t auto-run?) But most walkthroughs aren’t written by professionals.

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.

I read what the NPC’s said in regards on how to do it.

I assume you mean the part where Marjory says:
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.

Since (unless it’s missing from the full transcript on the wiki) there are no other instructions mentioned at any point.

I don’t see how that would clear up any of the misconceptions mentioned in this topic. Ok, yes, we know we need to use the unstable bloodstone chunk to “catch the shield in the flux”. But if (like many people in this topic) you’re under the impression that the golems shields were removed because they were standing close to the bloodstone shard or close to you when you used Counter Magic, or when the bloodstone shard was destroyed it will seem perfectly logical that you need to do the same thing again here. Until it doesn’t work.

(Alternatively if I’m completely wrong here and there are instructions missing from the Wiki I’d appreciate it if you could point me to the relevant dialogue so I can add it.)

Danikat.8537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.

I read what the NPC’s said in regards on how to do it.

I assume you mean the part where Marjory says:
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.

Since (unless it’s missing from the full transcript on the wiki) there are no other instructions mentioned at any point.

I don’t see how that would clear up any of the misconceptions mentioned in this topic. Ok, yes, we know we need to use the unstable bloodstone chunk to “catch the shield in the flux”. But if (like many people in this topic) you’re under the impression that the golems shields were removed because they were standing close to the bloodstone shard or close to you when you used Counter Magic, or when the bloodstone shard was destroyed it will seem perfectly logical that you need to do the same thing again here. Until it doesn’t work.

(Alternatively if I’m completely wrong here and there are instructions missing from the Wiki I’d appreciate it if you could point me to the relevant dialogue so I can add it.)

That dialogue was more than enough. If players missed it then they can always use a little critical thinking to analyze the situation. It’s a skill that players should really develop more as it helps quite a bit inside and outside the game. Either that or Anet can develop a handicap selection in the options menu that tells players to go here and/or do this. The players wouldn’t be playing the game but just following the instruction prompts on screen.

Ayrilana.1396:

Danikat.8537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.

I read what the NPC’s said in regards on how to do it.

I assume you mean the part where Marjory says:
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.

Since (unless it’s missing from the full transcript on the wiki) there are no other instructions mentioned at any point.

I don’t see how that would clear up any of the misconceptions mentioned in this topic. Ok, yes, we know we need to use the unstable bloodstone chunk to “catch the shield in the flux”. But if (like many people in this topic) you’re under the impression that the golems shields were removed because they were standing close to the bloodstone shard or close to you when you used Counter Magic, or when the bloodstone shard was destroyed it will seem perfectly logical that you need to do the same thing again here. Until it doesn’t work.

(Alternatively if I’m completely wrong here and there are instructions missing from the Wiki I’d appreciate it if you could point me to the relevant dialogue so I can add it.)

That dialogue was more than enough. If players missed it then they can always use a little critical thinking

Wow

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Danikat.8537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.

I read what the NPC’s said in regards on how to do it.

I assume you mean the part where Marjory says:
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.

Since (unless it’s missing from the full transcript on the wiki) there are no other instructions mentioned at any point.

I don’t see how that would clear up any of the misconceptions mentioned in this topic. Ok, yes, we know we need to use the unstable bloodstone chunk to “catch the shield in the flux”. But if (like many people in this topic) you’re under the impression that the golems shields were removed because they were standing close to the bloodstone shard or close to you when you used Counter Magic, or when the bloodstone shard was destroyed it will seem perfectly logical that you need to do the same thing again here. Until it doesn’t work.

(Alternatively if I’m completely wrong here and there are instructions missing from the Wiki I’d appreciate it if you could point me to the relevant dialogue so I can add it.)

That dialogue was more than enough. If players missed it then they can always use a little critical thinking

Wow

It’s part of playing games. Nothing needs to be laid out in front of players telling them to do this and do that. Every single LS that has had some form of a boss in the story instance, has received complaints about being too difficult or people not knowing what to do. It’s not like this is Dark Souls. The most common thing that I see is that players try one thing, it doesn’t work, and then they give up.

Going back to Justiciar Adrienne, had the players not just camped on the shard the entire time, they would’ve realized that there’s a beam between them and the shard. If they had listened and/or read the NPC’s dialogue, they would have known that the shields are disabled when caught in the flux/beam. All it takes is simple observation about what is going on and analyzing what isn’t working and what could possibly work.

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Danikat.8537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.

I read what the NPC’s said in regards on how to do it.

I assume you mean the part where Marjory says:
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.

Since (unless it’s missing from the full transcript on the wiki) there are no other instructions mentioned at any point.

I don’t see how that would clear up any of the misconceptions mentioned in this topic. Ok, yes, we know we need to use the unstable bloodstone chunk to “catch the shield in the flux”. But if (like many people in this topic) you’re under the impression that the golems shields were removed because they were standing close to the bloodstone shard or close to you when you used Counter Magic, or when the bloodstone shard was destroyed it will seem perfectly logical that you need to do the same thing again here. Until it doesn’t work.

(Alternatively if I’m completely wrong here and there are instructions missing from the Wiki I’d appreciate it if you could point me to the relevant dialogue so I can add it.)

That dialogue was more than enough. If players missed it then they can always use a little critical thinking

Wow

It’s part of playing games. Nothing needs to be laid out in front of players telling them to do this and do that. Every single LS that has had some form of a boss in the story instance, has received complaints about being too difficult or people not knowing what to do. It’s not like this is Dark Souls. The most common thing that I see is that players try one thing, it doesn’t work, and then they give up.

Going back to Justiciar Adrienne, had the players not just camped on the shard the entire time, they would’ve realized that there’s a beam between them and the shard. If they had listened and/or read the NPC’s dialogue, they would have known that the shields are disabled when caught in the flux/beam. All it takes is simple observation about what is going on and analyzing what isn’t working and what could possibly work.

In fairness though, did the dialogue actually say ‘beam’ at any point, or just ‘flux’?
Because they don’t mean the same thing to me and probably others too. If I hadn’t read here how the thing works, I wouldn’t have got the answer from ‘flux’.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Danikat.8537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.

I read what the NPC’s said in regards on how to do it.

I assume you mean the part where Marjory says:
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.

Since (unless it’s missing from the full transcript on the wiki) there are no other instructions mentioned at any point.

I don’t see how that would clear up any of the misconceptions mentioned in this topic. Ok, yes, we know we need to use the unstable bloodstone chunk to “catch the shield in the flux”. But if (like many people in this topic) you’re under the impression that the golems shields were removed because they were standing close to the bloodstone shard or close to you when you used Counter Magic, or when the bloodstone shard was destroyed it will seem perfectly logical that you need to do the same thing again here. Until it doesn’t work.

(Alternatively if I’m completely wrong here and there are instructions missing from the Wiki I’d appreciate it if you could point me to the relevant dialogue so I can add it.)

That dialogue was more than enough. If players missed it then they can always use a little critical thinking

Wow

It’s part of playing games. Nothing needs to be laid out in front of players telling them to do this and do that. Every single LS that has had some form of a boss in the story instance, has received complaints about being too difficult or people not knowing what to do. It’s not like this is Dark Souls. The most common thing that I see is that players try one thing, it doesn’t work, and then they give up.

Going back to Justiciar Adrienne, had the players not just camped on the shard the entire time, they would’ve realized that there’s a beam between them and the shard. If they had listened and/or read the NPC’s dialogue, they would have known that the shields are disabled when caught in the flux/beam. All it takes is simple observation about what is going on and analyzing what isn’t working and what could possibly work.

In fairness though, did the dialogue actually say ‘beam’ at any point, or just ‘flux’?
Because they don’t mean the same thing to me and probably others too. If I hadn’t read here how the thing works, I wouldn’t have got the answer from ‘flux’.

What did you think flux meant? When I heard flux, I immediately thought back to Ghostbusters and their proton packs. When I pulled back from the crystal, lo and behold, there was a beam.

Earlier in this thread I did make a suggestion for the shard to have a knock back effect when players are within a certain range of it. This way players would see the beam if they decide to stack on the shard.

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Danikat.8537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.

I read what the NPC’s said in regards on how to do it.

I assume you mean the part where Marjory says:
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.

Since (unless it’s missing from the full transcript on the wiki) there are no other instructions mentioned at any point.

I don’t see how that would clear up any of the misconceptions mentioned in this topic. Ok, yes, we know we need to use the unstable bloodstone chunk to “catch the shield in the flux”. But if (like many people in this topic) you’re under the impression that the golems shields were removed because they were standing close to the bloodstone shard or close to you when you used Counter Magic, or when the bloodstone shard was destroyed it will seem perfectly logical that you need to do the same thing again here. Until it doesn’t work.

(Alternatively if I’m completely wrong here and there are instructions missing from the Wiki I’d appreciate it if you could point me to the relevant dialogue so I can add it.)

That dialogue was more than enough. If players missed it then they can always use a little critical thinking

Wow

It’s part of playing games. Nothing needs to be laid out in front of players telling them to do this and do that.

The argument here is that some people are saying that the NPCs tell you how to deal with it and some people either missed that fact or what the NPCs said wasn’t sufficient. You seem to be saying both that what the NPCs say is sufficient AND insulting people by telling the to just use their brains. (Everyone does critical thinking all the time.)

Ayrilana.1396:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

In fairness though, did the dialogue actually say ‘beam’ at any point, or just ‘flux’?
Because they don’t mean the same thing to me and probably others too. If I hadn’t read here how the thing works, I wouldn’t have got the answer from ‘flux’.

What did you think flux meant? When I heard flux, I immediately thought back to Ghostbusters

LOL! Yes, that makes everything perfectly clear!

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Danikat.8537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.

I read what the NPC’s said in regards on how to do it.

I assume you mean the part where Marjory says:
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.

Since (unless it’s missing from the full transcript on the wiki) there are no other instructions mentioned at any point.

I don’t see how that would clear up any of the misconceptions mentioned in this topic. Ok, yes, we know we need to use the unstable bloodstone chunk to “catch the shield in the flux”. But if (like many people in this topic) you’re under the impression that the golems shields were removed because they were standing close to the bloodstone shard or close to you when you used Counter Magic, or when the bloodstone shard was destroyed it will seem perfectly logical that you need to do the same thing again here. Until it doesn’t work.

(Alternatively if I’m completely wrong here and there are instructions missing from the Wiki I’d appreciate it if you could point me to the relevant dialogue so I can add it.)

That dialogue was more than enough. If players missed it then they can always use a little critical thinking

Wow

It’s part of playing games. Nothing needs to be laid out in front of players telling them to do this and do that.

The argument here is that some people are saying that the NPCs tell you how to deal with it and some people either missed that fact or what the NPCs said wasn’t sufficient. You seem to be saying both that what the NPCs say is sufficient AND insulting people by telling the to just use their brains. (Everyone does critical thinking all the time.)

Ayrilana.1396:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

In fairness though, did the dialogue actually say ‘beam’ at any point, or just ‘flux’?
Because they don’t mean the same thing to me and probably others too. If I hadn’t read here how the thing works, I wouldn’t have got the answer from ‘flux’.

What did you think flux meant? When I heard flux, I immediately thought back to Ghostbusters

LOL! Yes, that makes everything perfectly clear!

It’s not insulting to tell people to use a little critical thinking. It’s simply just telling people to not give up immediately after their first attempt fails and call something broken.

Players had issues with HoT mobs calling them overpowered too. Smokescales were one mob. There were people unable to kill them before getting themselves killed. The primary reason being that they were trying to attack it while in the smoke field. If they had thought about it more, they would realize the effect that the smoke field was having, and would move out of it to lure the smokescale away.

Practically anything in this game that ends up having some sort of mechanic where stacking and autoattacking doesn’t work receives complaints. It’s unfortunate that core Tyria was so brain dead easy that there was little risk or thought needed. Anet has been doing a great job giving players hints toward mechanics in everything that they have added since then.

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Danikat.8537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.

I read what the NPC’s said in regards on how to do it.

I assume you mean the part where Marjory says:
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.

Since (unless it’s missing from the full transcript on the wiki) there are no other instructions mentioned at any point.

I don’t see how that would clear up any of the misconceptions mentioned in this topic. Ok, yes, we know we need to use the unstable bloodstone chunk to “catch the shield in the flux”. But if (like many people in this topic) you’re under the impression that the golems shields were removed because they were standing close to the bloodstone shard or close to you when you used Counter Magic, or when the bloodstone shard was destroyed it will seem perfectly logical that you need to do the same thing again here. Until it doesn’t work.

(Alternatively if I’m completely wrong here and there are instructions missing from the Wiki I’d appreciate it if you could point me to the relevant dialogue so I can add it.)

That dialogue was more than enough. If players missed it then they can always use a little critical thinking

Wow

It’s part of playing games. Nothing needs to be laid out in front of players telling them to do this and do that.

The argument here is that some people are saying that the NPCs tell you how to deal with it and some people either missed that fact or what the NPCs said wasn’t sufficient. You seem to be saying both that what the NPCs say is sufficient AND insulting people by telling the to just use their brains. (Everyone does critical thinking all the time.)

Ayrilana.1396:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

In fairness though, did the dialogue actually say ‘beam’ at any point, or just ‘flux’?
Because they don’t mean the same thing to me and probably others too. If I hadn’t read here how the thing works, I wouldn’t have got the answer from ‘flux’.

What did you think flux meant? When I heard flux, I immediately thought back to Ghostbusters

LOL! Yes, that makes everything perfectly clear!

It’s not insulting to tell people to use a little critical thinking.

“Use your brain!” No, not insulting at all.

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Danikat.8537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.

I read what the NPC’s said in regards on how to do it.

I assume you mean the part where Marjory says:
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.

Since (unless it’s missing from the full transcript on the wiki) there are no other instructions mentioned at any point.

I don’t see how that would clear up any of the misconceptions mentioned in this topic. Ok, yes, we know we need to use the unstable bloodstone chunk to “catch the shield in the flux”. But if (like many people in this topic) you’re under the impression that the golems shields were removed because they were standing close to the bloodstone shard or close to you when you used Counter Magic, or when the bloodstone shard was destroyed it will seem perfectly logical that you need to do the same thing again here. Until it doesn’t work.

(Alternatively if I’m completely wrong here and there are instructions missing from the Wiki I’d appreciate it if you could point me to the relevant dialogue so I can add it.)

That dialogue was more than enough. If players missed it then they can always use a little critical thinking

Wow

It’s part of playing games. Nothing needs to be laid out in front of players telling them to do this and do that.

The argument here is that some people are saying that the NPCs tell you how to deal with it and some people either missed that fact or what the NPCs said wasn’t sufficient. You seem to be saying both that what the NPCs say is sufficient AND insulting people by telling the to just use their brains. (Everyone does critical thinking all the time.)

Ayrilana.1396:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

In fairness though, did the dialogue actually say ‘beam’ at any point, or just ‘flux’?
Because they don’t mean the same thing to me and probably others too. If I hadn’t read here how the thing works, I wouldn’t have got the answer from ‘flux’.

What did you think flux meant? When I heard flux, I immediately thought back to Ghostbusters

LOL! Yes, that makes everything perfectly clear!

It’s not insulting to tell people to use a little critical thinking.

“Use your brain!” No, not insulting at all.

Anything can be made insulting depending on the phrasing used. You’re re-phrasing what I said in such a way that it comes off as that. Critical thinking is a skill that has great use in game and outside the game. Had it been used towards the Justiciar Adrienne encounter, players would have been able to figure out what to do.

Ayrilana.1396:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Danikat.8537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.

I read what the NPC’s said in regards on how to do it.

I assume you mean the part where Marjory says:
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.

Since (unless it’s missing from the full transcript on the wiki) there are no other instructions mentioned at any point.

I don’t see how that would clear up any of the misconceptions mentioned in this topic. Ok, yes, we know we need to use the unstable bloodstone chunk to “catch the shield in the flux”. But if (like many people in this topic) you’re under the impression that the golems shields were removed because they were standing close to the bloodstone shard or close to you when you used Counter Magic, or when the bloodstone shard was destroyed it will seem perfectly logical that you need to do the same thing again here. Until it doesn’t work.

(Alternatively if I’m completely wrong here and there are instructions missing from the Wiki I’d appreciate it if you could point me to the relevant dialogue so I can add it.)

That dialogue was more than enough. If players missed it then they can always use a little critical thinking

Wow

It’s part of playing games. Nothing needs to be laid out in front of players telling them to do this and do that. Every single LS that has had some form of a boss in the story instance, has received complaints about being too difficult or people not knowing what to do. It’s not like this is Dark Souls. The most common thing that I see is that players try one thing, it doesn’t work, and then they give up.

Going back to Justiciar Adrienne, had the players not just camped on the shard the entire time, they would’ve realized that there’s a beam between them and the shard. If they had listened and/or read the NPC’s dialogue, they would have known that the shields are disabled when caught in the flux/beam. All it takes is simple observation about what is going on and analyzing what isn’t working and what could possibly work.

In fairness though, did the dialogue actually say ‘beam’ at any point, or just ‘flux’?
Because they don’t mean the same thing to me and probably others too. If I hadn’t read here how the thing works, I wouldn’t have got the answer from ‘flux’.

What did you think flux meant? When I heard flux, I immediately thought back to Ghostbusters and their proton packs. When I pulled back from the crystal, lo and behold, there was a beam.

Well… when I heard flux, I thought of the flux capacitor from Back to the Future. I don’t remember flux coming up in Ghostbusters at all so I googled it. The only mention of flux I could find was from the “The Real Ghostbusters” tv series from the 80’s, which was based on the movie.

So… you’re saying that to understand the dialogue.. players have to have watched a tv series from the 80’s? You have to see how that might be a tad more confusing that just calling it a beam?

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Danikat.8537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.

I read what the NPC’s said in regards on how to do it.

I assume you mean the part where Marjory says:
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.

Since (unless it’s missing from the full transcript on the wiki) there are no other instructions mentioned at any point.

I don’t see how that would clear up any of the misconceptions mentioned in this topic. Ok, yes, we know we need to use the unstable bloodstone chunk to “catch the shield in the flux”. But if (like many people in this topic) you’re under the impression that the golems shields were removed because they were standing close to the bloodstone shard or close to you when you used Counter Magic, or when the bloodstone shard was destroyed it will seem perfectly logical that you need to do the same thing again here. Until it doesn’t work.

(Alternatively if I’m completely wrong here and there are instructions missing from the Wiki I’d appreciate it if you could point me to the relevant dialogue so I can add it.)

That dialogue was more than enough. If players missed it then they can always use a little critical thinking

Wow

It’s part of playing games. Nothing needs to be laid out in front of players telling them to do this and do that.

The argument here is that some people are saying that the NPCs tell you how to deal with it and some people either missed that fact or what the NPCs said wasn’t sufficient. You seem to be saying both that what the NPCs say is sufficient AND insulting people by telling the to just use their brains. (Everyone does critical thinking all the time.)

Ayrilana.1396:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

In fairness though, did the dialogue actually say ‘beam’ at any point, or just ‘flux’?
Because they don’t mean the same thing to me and probably others too. If I hadn’t read here how the thing works, I wouldn’t have got the answer from ‘flux’.

What did you think flux meant? When I heard flux, I immediately thought back to Ghostbusters

LOL! Yes, that makes everything perfectly clear!

It’s not insulting to tell people to use a little critical thinking.

“Use your brain!” No, not insulting at all.

Anything can be made insulting depending on the phrasing used. You’re re-phrasing what I said in such a way that it comes off as that. Critical thinking is a skill that has great use in game and outside the game. Had it been used towards the Justiciar Adrienne encounter, players would have been able to figure out what to do.

I am very familiar with critical thinking – I do it all the time while going about my life. You telling people to use a commonplace skill assumes they don’t already use it and is therefore insulting.

Let’s review:

1. Some people figured out how to deal with Adrienne without reading the in-game text or listening to the NPCs.
2. Some people learned by reading or listening.
3. Some people had trouble, after they did not read and did not pay attention to NPCs.
4. Some people had trouble even after reading and/or listening to the NPCs.

We have no idea of the numbers of people in each group, although that hasn’t stopped many of us from assuming or speculating about it and insisting that ANet make policy decisions based on our “guesses”.

Some of us aren’t very sympathetic to the people in group (3), under the idea that players should try to meet ANet halfway. Some of us aren’t sympathetic to group (4) because it’s hard to imagine how it’s possible, given all the different ways that other people figured out how it works.

After reading (and responding), my thoughts are now: there’s only so much ANet can do. It’s worth their taking time to include several ways of learning the mechanics within the instance, but we need to accept that not everyone will get it. Sometimes, there will be good reasons and sometimes there won’t be and we need to accept that, too.

The question is: given that there are always going to be some people who are lost, under what circumstances should ANet go back and change things? I’d argue that it’s only worth their time when (a) there is a huge plurality of confused people and (b) those people remain confused even after asking friends/guildies/map or reading guides.

That doesn’t seem to be the case here: some people don’t get it at first, but everyone gets it after being pointed in right direction. (In contrast, some of the instances in LS2 remain confusing to many, at least in terms of challenges.)

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Ayrilana.1396:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Danikat.8537:

Ayrilana.1396:

Djinn.9245:

I think that the people arguing that the instance is perfectly fine are suffering from a case of “I saw the answer instantly and therefore it must be obvious to everyone” syndrome. Different people understand situations differently, so what is obvious to one person may not be obvious to another. Telling the people who aren’t getting it that the situation is perfectly obvious isn’t helpful. If enough people aren’t getting it, then it’s not a problem with THEM.

I read what the NPC’s said in regards on how to do it.

I assume you mean the part where Marjory says:
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.

Since (unless it’s missing from the full transcript on the wiki) there are no other instructions mentioned at any point.

I don’t see how that would clear up any of the misconceptions mentioned in this topic. Ok, yes, we know we need to use the unstable bloodstone chunk to “catch the shield in the flux”. But if (like many people in this topic) you’re under the impression that the golems shields were removed because they were standing close to the bloodstone shard or close to you when you used Counter Magic, or when the bloodstone shard was destroyed it will seem perfectly logical that you need to do the same thing again here. Until it doesn’t work.

(Alternatively if I’m completely wrong here and there are instructions missing from the Wiki I’d appreciate it if you could point me to the relevant dialogue so I can add it.)

That dialogue was more than enough. If players missed it then they can always use a little critical thinking

Wow

It’s part of playing games. Nothing needs to be laid out in front of players telling them to do this and do that. Every single LS that has had some form of a boss in the story instance, has received complaints about being too difficult or people not knowing what to do. It’s not like this is Dark Souls. The most common thing that I see is that players try one thing, it doesn’t work, and then they give up.

Going back to Justiciar Adrienne, had the players not just camped on the shard the entire time, they would’ve realized that there’s a beam between them and the shard. If they had listened and/or read the NPC’s dialogue, they would have known that the shields are disabled when caught in the flux/beam. All it takes is simple observation about what is going on and analyzing what isn’t working and what could possibly work.

In fairness though, did the dialogue actually say ‘beam’ at any point, or just ‘flux’?
Because they don’t mean the same thing to me and probably others too. If I hadn’t read here how the thing works, I wouldn’t have got the answer from ‘flux’.

What did you think flux meant? When I heard flux, I immediately thought back to Ghostbusters and their proton packs. When I pulled back from the crystal, lo and behold, there was a beam.

Well… when I heard flux, I thought of the flux capacitor from Back to the Future. I don’t remember flux coming up in Ghostbusters at all so I googled it. The only mention of flux I could find was from the “The Real Ghostbusters” tv series from the 80’s, which was based on the movie.

So… you’re saying that to understand the dialogue.. players have to have watched a tv series from the 80’s? You have to see how that might be a tad more confusing that just calling it a beam?

That is in no way what I sad. Seriously…

It is just the first thing that came to my mind when I read flux. Geez. If players want to understand what it means then they need to understand its definition. Simple as that.