Guild Wars 2

So a bit warning now there may be some spoilers for people who have not reach certain point in the storyline if you cross this line into…..

The Spoiler Zone!
——————————————————————————————————————————-

As the story progress I cannot help but feel the Zhaitan Arc/Season 1/Season 2 characters that have been with the Commander are slowly splitting into a path where they become “once in a while characters” or just no long part of the storyline.

Logan is now leader of the Pact but as we learned the new Pact Leader will no longer be on the frontlines and only commanding from the distance in a Office located in Lion’s Arch.

Eir is now dead.

Zojja is probably crippled for life.

Canach has left to travel on his own to find his own path now he has his freedom and will appear again one day when his path cross with the Commander’s.

Marjory is now critically injured and the injury may become fatal.

Braham is blinded by his anger over his mother’s death and I can’t help but feel he may die sacrificing himself to save the Commander after his failed attempt to kill Jormag even when we told him not to and what will happen if anymore Elder Dragon’s are killed. Thus having Braham’s final moments a brief but heroic one where he first apologize because he did not listen behind a blockade he created to help slow down Jormag’s minions from reaching the commander and the survivors of his failed attempt to kill jormag then turns to face Jormag’s minions dying to fight off jormag’s minions so the survivors could escape with the Commander as his atonement for his own actions while also instead of dying as a child with anger issues die as a True Norn in battle fighting a greater enemy. Ya people got their wish he dies but he dies as a True Norn and not as a person blinded by anger he is now.

Lady Kasmeer, Taimi, and Rytlock are most likely staying considering their events with Kasmeer having little involvement that could not support any foreshadowing to anything bad, Taimi is just Taimi, and Rytlock is just getting “things” done at the Black Citadel then plans to return right after.

As for Caithe…. well we never really know what goes on in her head.

Well I can see most of it as you say. But with Kasmeer turning a Logan when her Lover was mortally wounded and we were about to take revenge I don’t want her to be part of the future of Dragons Watch. And as a Sylvari player I would like the chance to get Caithe in and not mistrust her but get the chance to act like a Sylvari who understands the pressure she was under while Mordremoth was active. I can understand this way of acting if the player character is any other race. But giving Caith so much flag for what happened while the dragon was active is not ok when you could attack your own party members as Sylvari in the story Quest.

EdwinLi.1284:

Zojja is probably crippled for life.

I’ve pretty much given up on Anet giving any kind of update regarding this. We won’t know and likely will never know. Anet seems more interested in shiny new plot points than resolving anything left hanging from HoT and before, like what the heck is going on with the Nightmare Court after Faolain’s death and the Krytan locket/amulet thing from Season 2, just to name a couple.

I don’t know about anyone else but between this and how sloppy episode 5 felt in terms of pacing and consistency I don’t have much faith in Anet being able to handle anything story related.

That and their insistence on radio silence is just as bad as going all out on the hype train.

I’m tired of caring because it feels like Anet doesn’t care. :\

Anet may be viewing the entire game and future content as a single story rather than a complilation of separate stories. It’s not like GW1, or other games, where the stories are generally self-contained. This is likely due to their living world model.

Many elements in stories are seeded early in order to further various story arcs later. What may feel to be an unresolved plot point now may not be so later when it becomes more important to the overall story. Giving updates (i.e. In regards to the story development) on whatever each individual players prefers, whether that be Zoijja’s status or what’s up with Logan, slows the pacing down.

There’s also the problem of keeping the same actors available indefinitely. For a professional, committing to a franchise for more than a year or two can be difficult. For the franchise, committing to the same staff can be expensive.

For example, Zojja is probably out in part due to Felicia Day’s schedule (and new contract costs).

If I were ANet, I’d make it easy to swap out existing characters and swap in new ones, just in case you can’t get folks for Expac #2 or LS4. I’m sure it helps that ANet has a more consistent schedule for Living World + Expac Stories, but they won’t be able to keep every actor for the duration of GW2.

Oh kitten, i just realized we have to stop Braham from killing Jormag. Now that’s gonna be a fight to look for. Unless anet decides PC is gonna work his charm and slick talking skills, which by the way are the best, everybody knows that, to confirm Braham from not killing a dragon. Now that would be hard to swallow for Braham obviously so he’ll get mad at us and think we are one with the dragons now and tries to kill us.

Whadda ya think?

Sorry for off topic

Plot Twist: Braham will replace Balthazar as the God of War, since he does think there’s honor in war and he’s even better at being insensitive to the needs of those around him while he serves his own interests.

He will also take credit for saving Tyria, in the tradition of other mortals who were promoted to Gods in the franchise. His rallying cry: “Eye of the North is the new Vabbi!”

EdwinLi.1284:

So a bit warning now there may be some spoilers for people who have not reach certain point in the storyline if you cross this line into…..

The Spoiler Zone!
——————————————————————————————————————————-

As the story progress I cannot help but feel the Zhaitan Arc/Season 1/Season 2 characters that have been with the Commander are slowly splitting into a path where they become “once in a while characters” or just no long part of the storyline.

Logan is now leader of the Pact but as we learned the new Pact Leader will no longer be on the frontlines and only commanding from the distance in a Office located in Lion’s Arch.

Eir is now dead.

Zojja is probably crippled for life.

Canach has left to travel on his own to find his own path now he has his freedom and will appear again one day when his path cross with the Commander’s.

Marjory is now critically injured and the injury may become fatal.

Braham is blinded by his anger over his mother’s death and I can’t help but feel he may die sacrificing himself to save the Commander after his failed attempt to kill Jormag even when we told him not to and what will happen if anymore Elder Dragon’s are killed. Thus having Braham’s final moments a brief but heroic one where he first apologize because he did not listen behind a blockade he created to help slow down Jormag’s minions from reaching the commander and the survivors of his failed attempt to kill jormag then turns to face Jormag’s minions dying to fight off jormag’s minions so the survivors could escape with the Commander as his atonement for his own actions while also instead of dying as a child with anger issues die as a True Norn in battle fighting a greater enemy. Ya people got their wish he dies but he dies as a True Norn and not as a person blinded by anger he is now.

Lady Kasmeer, Taimi, and Rytlock are most likely staying considering their events with Kasmeer having little involvement that could not support any foreshadowing to anything bad, Taimi is just Taimi, and Rytlock is just getting “things” done at the Black Citadel then plans to return right after.

As for Caithe…. well we never really know what goes on in her head.

I’m not really a character death fan, but I agree with your sentiment about Braham. Well, people would still complain about him (not saying complaints about Braham are unfounded!), but him going out with a bang and a too-late realisation could provide for a satisfying conlcusion within your scenario.

As the situation is right now, the only stable factor in the Commander’s ragtag group is Taimi, disregarding how many people are getting ticked off by her, Caithe with her regaining her trust slowly, and partly Rythlock once he has finally settled stuff at the Black Citadel (or after we helped him doing what he needs to do).
Even though Rox joined Dragon Watch (I think?), as long as Braham and her are teamed-up she’s obviously not available. Jory injured so unavailble again, and poor Kasmeer in shock². At least double dragon chaos has been put on hold for the time being, so only Lolthazar and whatever awaits in Xpack 2.

As for Caithe: Just redeem her already, A-Net. My Sylvari would have forgiven her already. She saved his/her behind during Hearts and Minds, helped in Bloodstone Fens and pledged her life for Aurene. But as much as I’d like to see different reactions and small variances between the races, it would probably be too much work.
SWTOR mashed the class stories (not really equivalent/comparable to the different races in GW2, though) together with KOFTE and KOTET, even though that was kittenP of SWTOR back then.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Plot Twist: Braham will replace Balthazar as the God of War, since he does think there’s honor in war and he’s even better at being insensitive to the needs of those around him while he serves his own interests.

He will also take credit for saving Tyria, in the tradition of other mortals who were promoted to Gods in the franchise. His rallying cry: “Eye of the North is the new Vabbi!”

We could just replace the entire Six with Dragon’s Watch. Kasjory for Lyssa, Taimi for Dwayna, Canach for Grenth, Rox for Melandru, and Rytlock for Kormir.

Ayrilana.1396:

Many elements in stories are seeded early in order to further various story arcs later. What may feel to be an unresolved plot point now may not be so later when it becomes more important to the overall story. Giving updates (i.e. In regards to the story development) on whatever each individual players prefers, whether that be Zoijja’s status or what’s up with Logan, slows the pacing down.

The problem with that attitude is that momentum only carries so far, and when it runs out even important unresolved “hooks” end up feeling like a farce. The Pale Tree has been in and sometimes barely out of a coma for how long now? What about anti-sylvari sentiments and mistrust, as well as holding the Pale Tree responsible for keeping a fatal secret — none of that was ever resolved, but how weird would it be if it was only picked up now many many months after HoT and eyeball-deep in a dozen other plots? When will there ever be a story arc that calls for revealing more about Malyck and his tree and siblings the way the Mordremoth arc did? Zojja has been mentioned already.

That’s not to say that even a very very late update can’t be good and welcome, of course — just look at how generally very well-received (much moreso than the actual LS episodes) the “current events” bit about Caladbolg was. People want and stories need closure and continuity, but while “better late than never” is a thing, it also feels very sloppy.

Chadramar.8156:

Ayrilana.1396:

Many elements in stories are seeded early in order to further various story arcs later. What may feel to be an unresolved plot point now may not be so later when it becomes more important to the overall story. Giving updates (i.e. In regards to the story development) on whatever each individual players prefers, whether that be Zoijja’s status or what’s up with Logan, slows the pacing down.

The problem with that attitude is that momentum only carries so far, and when it runs out even important unresolved “hooks” end up feeling like a farce. The Pale Tree has been in and sometimes barely out of a coma for how long now? What about anti-sylvari sentiments and mistrust, as well as holding the Pale Tree responsible for keeping a fatal secret — none of that was ever resolved, but how weird would it be if it was only picked up now many many months after HoT and eyeball-deep in a dozen other plots? When will there ever be a story arc that calls for revealing more about Malyck and his tree and siblings the way the Mordremoth arc did? Zojja has been mentioned already.

That’s not to say that even a very very late update can’t be good and welcome, of course — just look at how generally very well-received (much moreso than the actual LS episodes) the “current events” bit about Caladbolg was. People want and stories need closure and continuity, but while “better late than never” is a thing, it also feels very sloppy.

Should think of it more like in game time rather real world time. How much time passes in the real world has no bearing on the story just as the 1+ week delays of some TV shows has no bearing on the progression of their stories.

Whether some of those Sylvari get added later on doesn’t matter as much as how they’re incorporated into the overall story. It could be something as little as a brief acknowledgement as neither of those really seem large enough to dedicate part of an episode.

I saw people praising it more for being story related content more than simply because it finished a loose end. Compared to the boring current events, it was a welcomed change. The ascended weapons were a nice bonus too.

I think Caithe is already part of the new Guild, as the commander asked her to join last time we saw her.

Sooo..
I guess this is the fully Guild members:

-Commander
-Caithe
-Rythlock
-Kasmeer
-Taimi
-Rox(?)
-....

Marjory literally gave us the middle finger when we asked her to join our new guild and so did Braham.
We haven’t heard from Zojja since the HoT expansion.
And as you said, Logan is now the new Pact commander and Eir’s dead, rip.

I guess we need to recruit more guild members,

I think Jory not joining was part of the ruse to spy on Laz so she should still be in. It’s just a matter of asking. If she survived that last attack.

Alga.6498:

We haven’t heard from Zojja since the HoT expansion.

We may not be seeing Zojja join DW since she is currently in Vegetable state as revealed in Episode 2 saying her brain is “Scrambled” and she done nothing but “Drooling” in her bed while recovering.

In this state it is most likely she is gone for good and we most likely will only see her once in a while in a wheelchair as a brain damaged cripple.

EdwinLi.1284:

Alga.6498:

We haven’t heard from Zojja since the HoT expansion.

We may not be seeing Zojja join DW since she is currently in Vegetable state as revealed in Episode 2 saying her brain is “Scrambled” and she done nothing but “Drooling” in her bed while recovering.

In this state it is most likely she is gone for good and we most likely will only see her once in a while in a wheelchair as a brain damaged cripple.

The problem with this though is that 1) it was in Episode 1 of Living World Season 3, and that 2) it’s hearsay. The same goes for whatever Rytlock said about Logan and Zojja in Episode 1. Until the PC actually SEES what’s going on with her like we did Logan, we don’t and won’t know what condition she really is in. For all we know she could just be chilling out in a hospital bed reading get well cards and munching on sweets.

There’s also the fact that, depending on who you rescued first in the Bitter Harvest chapter of HoT, the conditions are variable. Rescue one first, the other is worse off. Even Anet hasn’t come out and said which of these is canon, which leads to just even more speculation.

Heck, I’m not picky about how they resolve this and other unanswered questions so long as Anet does it. They did a great job when it came to the last Current Event regarding Caladbolg, Trahearne, and the Pale Tree. They could do the same thing without fitting it into a Living Story update. They could just as easily have a Current Event where the PC checks on Zojja, finds out what’s wrong (if anything), does a quest to help her out, and bam! Update done, everyone’s happy.

I’m going to echo/paraphrase what Chadramar said in that eventually the momentum runs out and people will just end up not caring even when things do get resolved because it feels sloppy/like a farce. This, in my opinion, hurts player retention for Anet.

Granted, I’m biased because I don’t care for how Anet tells their stories in this manner. As a result, I’m taking a long break from the game, at least until there’s another Current Event or Living World update. Even then it’s becoming harder and harder for me to stay engaged because they jump around with their story.

I’ll admit it again: I don’t like how Anet handles their story telling. Maybe at the end of the day this game isn’t (meant) for me despite being a player since April 2014.

However, I -want- to stay engaged. It’s just hard for me to stay engaged when Anet tells their stories the way that they do and especially when it involves leaving my favorite character(s) hanging in some unresolved state.

Ayrilana.1396:

Should think of it more like in game time rather real world time.

Not really, because this is both about IC logic and OOC motivation. It’s hard to get or stay involved when it somtimes feels that the devs throw plot hooks and characters in and out willy-nilly. You can only string people along for so much before interest turns to frustration, especially when the last time there even was a string was 1-2 years ago or more.

Whether some of those Sylvari get added later on doesn’t matter as much as how they’re incorporated into the overall story. It could be something as little as a brief acknowledgement as neither of those really seem large enough to dedicate part of an episode.

I disagree. The Pale Tree is a important on various levels, and a lot of people are going to have complicated feelings about her now, what with her keeping the big secret and all. Learning that Tyria’s newest sentient species, who were one of the driving forces behind the Pact and the first ever death of an Elder Dragon, were meant to be dragon minions themselves is also not something that I imagine people would just shrug off and ignore. It’s both personal for the PC and political, and both aspects deserve to be addressed, as more than a throwaway comment here and there.

Storylines need a (timely) conclusion and epilogue, even if parts of them are meant to be picked up again later.

Bring this back up because there is some talk about current state of Commander’s group… Now then…

Chadramar.8156:

I disagree. The Pale Tree is a important on various levels, and a lot of people are going to have complicated feelings about her now, what with her keeping the big secret and all. Learning that Tyria’s newest sentient species, who were one of the driving forces behind the Pact and the first ever death of an Elder Dragon, were meant to be dragon minions themselves is also not something that I imagine people would just shrug off and ignore. It’s both personal for the PC and political, and both aspects deserve to be addressed, as more than a throwaway comment here and there.

Storylines need a (timely) conclusion and epilogue, even if parts of them are meant to be picked up again later.

This can be double edged as if something gets dragged on too long it lose the impact it original had starting out.

The Elder Dragon storyline, for example, has felt a bit slow and made the dragons feel like they’re just waiting to be killed off one by one.

True, plot threads being dragged out can also be bad. But I don’t agree that the Elder Dragon plot is an example. Rather, the problem with it in my mind is that they wrote themselves into a corner because it’s really difficult to present incredibly powerful and incomprehensible beings like that in a satisfying manner … especially while storytelling in games is almost inevitably left to languish in the shadow of endless mass murder and loot-grabbing.

Still the vanilla story at least try to do the Elder Dragon theme justice and IMO it worked, despite its flaws, but people complained that it was impersonal and unheroic. So they made Mordremoth talk (which dragons weren’t said to do) and turned it into an utterly pitiful generic bossfight, which wrecked any chance of seeing the dragons as the world-shattering threat they’re supposed to be.

That only gets worse when you add a kid being on the verge of single-handedly destroying two of those unfathomable forces of nature at the same time because they are completely helpless against her omnipotent wonder toy.

I appreciate the spoiler warning but it would be helpful if you specified what the “certain point” in the story is so that readers know if they’ve done what you’re talking about yet.

As it is, I’m having to pass on this thread.

Sarpan.9074:

I appreciate the spoiler warning but it would be helpful if you specified what the “certain point” in the story is so that readers know if they’ve done what you’re talking about yet.

As it is, I’m having to pass on this thread.

The thread mentions various critical plot points back from the personal story all the way through to the current episode, so unless you are current on the story there are spoilers in there.

“As for Caithe…. well we never really know what goes on in her head.”

I think she is just the perfect picture of Sylvari, she contains every single feature of Sylvari. This is amazing. She acts like Faolain, then she acts as Trahearne, then she listens to Pale Tree then to Mordremoth, then she is kind to Commander and others and suddenly she doesnt trust them. Lol I doubt she even knows herself.

And then she says that she is on our side, but she goes alone to Maguuma. But in Maguuma when she meets Faolain she says no to Faolain (Mordremoth in fact) and we are starting to think that she is on our side, but the Egg, Mordremoth, Pale Tree, vision, everything is just complicated, and Caithe who has really tangled personality and the situations who are happening near her make her mind more tangled than before.

She doesn’t say a lot. She is not like Rytlock or Canach. She is just quiet and when she does something unexpected then everyone is saying she is evil etc.

I doubt we can trust her, because you just don’t wanna trust someone who doesnt speak more and acts in the way you dont understand. If you blame Caithe for her acting you blame other Sylvari too. If Canach would attack Caithe for her acting, he would just take a rope and just hang up on Pale Tree. Sylvari, who is attacking Caithe should not be called Sylvari, but the Salad.

Caithe is just the picture of that all of Sylvari look like.

It’s my feeling, I am not defending Caithe for her acts, but she is just amazing character, because nobody can know her and she can’t even know herself.

It would be hard for me to blame Caithe for her actions while Mordremoth was alive… ~ CANACH

just to balance things a bit:

I am playing for less than a year. That meant that personal story, LS2, HOT and LS3 are pretty much one continuus story without waits.

And I am loving it. Sure, if you are in for years it might feel like a long time, but from ‘play it in one long go’ or even in-character point of view, there hasn’t been much time spent so far.

Zojja has been away for how long? Couple of weeks? A month maybe? 2? Relationship with Caithe is still a bit strained after… how much time in game? 1 month? You free Zojja/Logan a couple of hours later you kill Mordri, when you leave the bloodstone explodes and so it goes on. Even saying that there had only DAYS between ‘Zojja freed’ and ‘Caudecus attacks’ wouldn’t be much of a stretch. Sure there are some in-game comments that suggest otherwise, but while players might have been waiting for many month (or years) the characters haven’t.

The story is fine, the story telling is fine. There is no ‘long time’ if you take the POV of the character. For your asura/charr/human/norn/sylvari it has been a constant thunderstorm.

Chadramar.8156:

Still the vanilla story at least try to do the Elder Dragon theme justice and IMO it worked, despite its flaws, but people complained that it was impersonal and unheroic. So they made Mordremoth talk (which dragons weren’t said to do) and turned it into an utterly pitiful generic bossfight, which wrecked any chance of seeing the dragons as the world-shattering threat they’re supposed to be.

The vanilla story did a good job of world building in the early stages, and conveying the sense, through the later personal story and the Orrian maps, of progress in a moderately large-scale, long-haul military conflict. It was always clear that, while your character was doing important things, they weren’t single-handedly carrying an effort involving thousands of soldiers and tons of equipment.

HoT just completely fails in this regard. The personal story is pretty much entirely a sidequest (rescue 3/5ths of DE and Trahearne), with some side-sidequests (help the frogs, deal with Glint’s egg and the Exalted, discover Rata Novus) that just happens to dump you in the lap of the Big Bad at a time when a tiny group can fight him.

That might be tolerable if the maps at least portrayed an advancing war effort, but Verdant Brink was mostly defensive in nature, likewise Auric Basin (which was mainly about the Exalted, who don’t really join the Pact or anything), and Tangled Depths was a map-wide sidequest about dealing with the Chak, who don’t have anything to do with anything. Silverwastes has more relevance to the fight against Mordremoth than most of HoT. So you get to Dragon’s Stand without any real sense of how an effective force was actually assembled there, or for that matter having much in the way of heavy-hitting superweapons other than just running up to the boss and smacking it in the face. The Pact brought more firepower to fight Tequatl than they did to Mordremoth.

Calling the story a “sidequest” pretty much hits the nail on the head in terms of summing up a lot of my annoyances with it, yes. Especially the whole Rata Novus sidetracking.

VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618:

Zojja has been away for how long? Couple of weeks? A month maybe? 2? Relationship with Caithe is still a bit strained after… how much time in game? 1 month? You free Zojja/Logan a couple of hours later you kill Mordri, when you leave the bloodstone explodes and so it goes on. Even saying that there had only DAYS between ‘Zojja freed’ and ‘Caudecus attacks’ wouldn’t be much of a stretch. Sure there are some in-game comments that suggest otherwise, but while players might have been waiting for many month (or years) the characters haven’t.

With the exception of the gap between the start of Heart of Thorns and the end of Season 2 (lorewise, there was no gap to speak of), officially time in Tyria is actually synchronised to real-world time. You can see this in the story journal, which gives the year in which everything happens – vanilla in 1325AE, LS1 in 1326-1327, LS2 in 1327-1328, HoT in 1328, and LS3 in 1329-1330, with Head of the Snake being the first 1330 event. So, yes, officially at least a year has passed in Tyria between the events of Heart of Thorns and Caudecus’ attack on Divinity’s Reach.

perilisk.1874:

That might be tolerable if the maps at least portrayed an advancing war effort, but Verdant Brink was mostly defensive in nature, likewise Auric Basin (which was mainly about the Exalted, who don’t really join the Pact or anything), and Tangled Depths was a map-wide sidequest about dealing with the Chak, who don’t have anything to do with anything. Silverwastes has more relevance to the fight against Mordremoth than most of HoT. So you get to Dragon’s Stand without any real sense of how an effective force was actually assembled there, or for that matter having much in the way of heavy-hitting superweapons other than just running up to the boss and smacking it in the face. The Pact brought more firepower to fight Tequatl than they did to Mordremoth.

They do build up, actually.

Verdant Brink is essentially a ‘survive the immediate aftermath of the Pact Fleet’s destruction’ map. Most of the event chains end with troops moving deeper into the jungle, evacuating, or establishing a secure camp, at least for the time being.

Auric Basin is mostly focused on a siege on Tarir, but it’s also in part the Pact survivors gaining a stronghold from which to go on the offensive. Holding Tarir is essentially the ‘turning point’, from which the Pact goes back on the offensive.

Tangled Depths is the start of that offensive. You might have missed it if you’re just running around, but the culmination of the Tangled Depths meta is to blow kitten in the side of a mountain from the inside so that the Pact forces can catch Mordremoth by surprise through entering Dragon’s Stand in force without going through the Mordrem army in Dragon’s Passage. Yes, the chak are often the main enemies there (although two of the four pre-gerent chains end with striking blows against the Mordrem), but that’s because they’re basically evading the notice of the Mordrem by going through chak territory instead.

Dragon’s Stand is then the conclusion of said offensive.