Guild Wars 2

Gaile Gray.6029:

Hey all,

We just merged several threads into this big one, as that keeps the conversation flowing and prevents redundancy.

Thanks for understanding and keep your comments coming!

My thread was very specifically on a part of the story I wanted to point out. I am tired of thread merges and specific points being lost in a thread that has nothing to do specifically with what I was talking about.

I am tired of taking a good chunk of my time out of my day to offer constructive criticism and praise only to have it merged into something that has nothing to do with what I was speaking on.

Jaymee.1560:

Mitha.7039:

Please tell me this will have SOME effect on those of us who chose to play Sylvari…

Obvously, those who chose to play Sylvari, in my opinion, cannot be affected but Mordremoth’s influence…

I just don’t see it happening, again, from a previous post I made, Free Will is the one detail that is keeping all (if not most, definitely the player controlled Sylvari) born of the Mother Tree out of danger from Mordremoth’s influence.

While I agree you can’t take control of a player’s character away from them, there are other ways to show the effect. I’m mainly expressing the point that I hope there’s SOME kind of effect, showing that there is – in fact – some consequence to which race you pick on character creation. I have long felt that the race you choose should have ‘some’ effect on the game and with recent… events… even more so. ArenaNet has shown some innovative ideas in the past and I hope they can find a solution other than doing ‘nothing’.

Someone earlier in this thread expressed the C’thun idea – dark whispers that the character/player hears while on a Sylvari character – I support this idea. An idea I had was the idea of Sylvari characters being randomly attacked while in non-Grove major cities (not major named characters, just random spawned enemies) meaning you have to stay on your toes and stick to the Grove… seems to make sense to me.

One of the major themes of Guild Wars 2 – both in-character and in game mechanics terms – is the idea of cooperation to further mutual goals (kinda a radical idea when viewed in the context of other major MMO’s) but this is a new – and darker – direction for the game. We may even see some (and I’m sure someone will get on my case for using the word) racism against Sylvari characters. While a dark murky place to go, it’s also an effect or a result of the direction the story is going, and very relevant and grown-up issue to address in our day in age given the politics of our day. In the end I say BRAVO, ArenaNet, for being willing to GO THERE. You had me screaming at the cliffhanger, well done.

(gets down off her soapbox)

It was a good ending.

The only down side is that ANet is still enamored with the darn twigs. twig twig twig twig It would be nice if the Charr or Norn or, heaven forbid, humans were the hub of the story instead of the boring twigs.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

It was a good ending.
The only down side is that ANet is still enamored with the darn twigs. twig twig twig twig It would be nice if the Charr or Norn or, heaven forbid, humans were the hub of the story instead of the boring twigs.

Everyone gets their day in the spotlight. Us “twigs” are just the new kids on the block. :P

Gaile Gray.6029:

Hey all,

We just merged several threads into this big one, as that keeps the conversation flowing and prevents redundancy.

Thanks for understanding and keep your comments coming!

Well, here’s how I feel about that.

It’s like, there’s a bunch of us at Stan Lee’s house, and we just watched the Avengers movie, and now we’ve all split up into groups: some to talk about Iron Man’s armor, some to discuss the new guy playing the Hulk, some to talk about the CGI effects involved in bringing the Hulk to the screen, some are wondering why Hawkeye doesn’t wear a mask, and where the heck is Hank Pym in all this, etc. etc. There’s some mixing and mingling going on as people move from group to group, and everyone’s having a good time…

And then Stan insists that everyone jump in the hot tub because, hey, we’re all talking about the Avengers, right? Excelsior!

So now we’ve got dozens and dozens of people all talking about different aspects of the Avengers movie, all jammed into the same hot tub and, well, sometimes things are better left un-assembled.

Say! What are the chances of getting James Spader to do a voice in GW2? His take on Ultron, yikes, creeeeeepy.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

It was a good ending.

The only down side is that ANet is still enamored with the darn twigs. twig twig twig twig It would be nice if the Charr or Norn or, heaven forbid, humans were the hub of the story instead of the boring twigs.

And see, I think the “twigs” are pretty fascinating, so….

I think the Sylvari “fit” for this part of the story. Jungle dragon, thwarted minions (ha! I knew it!), etc etc.

I am hoping when we get to the other dragons, we see more emphasis on the other races. Norn for Jormag. Charr for Kralk. Asura for Primordus.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

It was a good ending.

The only down side is that ANet is still enamored with the darn twigs. twig twig twig twig It would be nice if the Charr or Norn or, heaven forbid, humans were the hub of the story instead of the boring twigs.

And see, I think the “twigs” are pretty fascinating, so….

Of course you do. I wouldn’t expect a staff member to not toe the company line. That would be silly.

It would just be nice to see another race stand front and center.

There are plenty of other opportunities for this to happen. The norn deal with Jormag. The charr, Krak. The asura, Primordius. One could argue the humans had Zhaitan, but there’s still a sea dragon out there for that.

Jordo.5913:

I am going to assume in 2 weeks we will receive more living story since anet hasnt said no more releases, but i believe the finale is coming with some big news!

We were told we would collect a new armor throughout season 2, done.

We have also now received 3 of the 4 stats we were told to be getting.

So it would be a safe bet to assume the next patch we will get the last stat combo and will be the finale which happens to be before a big holiday break for Anet.

I think the finale is going to end with us finding the golden city from the vision along with Glints egg, and the egg possibly hatching before the screen going black and announcing an expansion for GW2….finally.

I don’t see fighting Mordremoth as being something that can happen through the Living Story. The LS team has roughly 20 devs on it, and I don’t see them able to design an elder dragon and a dungeon for him to reside in, so it only makes sense that an expansion will introduce that. Also, why would only 20 devs be working on something as important as the next Elder dragon fight?

That stuff does seem big enough to maybe be the big plans Anet has been working on “behind the scenes” though.

Here’s to hoping!

lol, mate, you were almost point right lol.

Urosh Uchiha.9732:

Devildoc.6721:

Urosh Uchiha.9732:

Devildoc.6721:

If you did Crucible of Eternity you’ve known for 2 years that Sylvari were actually dragon minions not to be trusted.

Better put all Sylvari to the torch. I’ve been in support of that since oh, LS season 1 when Scarlet was revealed.

Yeah lets burn every race that has at least one evil person in their race (Let’s go with Scarlet being evil, I still have think they will reveal her as someone trying to do good but in a different way) aaaaand the world would be empty.

There’s a big difference here. You are not people. You are dragon minions. You are constructs. You are not born, you are created as an imitation. Knowledge is planted into your head, and you act on it. You do not learn your own perspective and choose your own path, your path is set before you, you are programmed.

The only difference is what knowledge was planted into your head prior to the Dragon’s Awakening was Ventari’s Teachings rather than the instructions of the Dragon.

Now the Dragon is awake, and able to reprogram Sylvari to serve him.

This isn’t a case of a few bad apples. This is the case of all Sylvari being vulnerable to corruption from the Dragon.

Also in other cases, people make conscious CHOICES to be evil but each person of you know ACTUAL people, Asura, Charr, Norn, Human, Tengu, Quaggan, Kodan, Skritt, Largos, even Krait (in their case it’s a cultural difference), each individual makes their own choices, so yes, it’s wrong to judge that entire group of people by the actions of one or a few.

However, Sylvari are not entities of free will and choice, they are constructs, they are programmed with a “wild hunt” which they are compelled to fulfill. Their life isn’t one of making choices, but one of obligation to fulfill their programming.

… and a Dragon can program them however he wishes.

This is not yet proven. No one in game can you find yet that the dragon can corrupt/reprogram all sylvari. Sylvari have free will, which was proven so many times, some decide to be good little boys and girls and follow the rules, others don’t. That is still free will no matter what you decide.

They are not constructs, no one is making them piece by piece, they actually are born. Not from a gaping kitten but from a tree, they are still born.

Not born, synthesized. It is not reproduction that the Pale Tree does, she creates Sylvari as an imitation of the human bodies she grew on top of.

Just like a factory that would make androids makes imitations of human beings. These are just robots made of wood and leaves rather than steel and plastic.

The Pale Tree is just SKYNET with different programming and different materials to work with.

Remember you’re all jacked into something similar to a hive mind at all times. Your purpose and life and even your personality is pre-programmed.

You’re not people, you’re plant androids.

People are born as infants, they grow and mature into adults, and they in turn have children of their own. They’re born as ignorant blank slates with no real purpose, they create their own purpose and personality as they experience life and make choices and judgments

Sylvari are incapable of these things. They aren’t born, they “awake”, as the imitations of fully mature adults, they already have knowledge from their programming and are able to speak and walk instantly. They do not have children of their own, they are all drones.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Devildoc.6721:

Urosh Uchiha.9732:

Devildoc.6721:

If you did Crucible of Eternity you’ve known for 2 years that Sylvari were actually dragon minions not to be trusted.

Better put all Sylvari to the torch. I’ve been in support of that since oh, LS season 1 when Scarlet was revealed.

Yeah lets burn every race that has at least one evil person in their race (Let’s go with Scarlet being evil, I still have think they will reveal her as someone trying to do good but in a different way) aaaaand the world would be empty.

There’s a big difference here. You are not people. You are dragon minions. You are constructs. You are not born, you are created as an imitation. Knowledge is planted into your head, and you act on it. You do not learn your own perspective and choose your own path, your path is set before you, you are programmed.

The only difference is what knowledge was planted into your head prior to the Dragon’s Awakening was Ventari’s Teachings rather than the instructions of the Dragon.

Now the Dragon is awake, and able to reprogram Sylvari to serve him.

This isn’t a case of a few bad apples. This is the case of all Sylvari being vulnerable to corruption from the Dragon.

Also in other cases, people make conscious CHOICES to be evil but each person of you know ACTUAL people, Asura, Charr, Norn, Human, Tengu, Quaggan, Kodan, Skritt, Largos, even Krait (in their case it’s a cultural difference), each individual makes their own choices, so yes, it’s wrong to judge that entire group of people by the actions of one or a few.

However, Sylvari are not entities of free will and choice, they are constructs, they are programmed with a “wild hunt” which they are compelled to fulfill. Their life isn’t one of making choices, but one of obligation to fulfill their programming.

… and a Dragon can program them however he wishes.

Sort of like how humans were programmed to Zhatains will when they came in contact with him…

Or sort of how Norn’s will’s were programmed when they came in contact with Jormag…

Or sort of like how all Charr were programmed to serve the crystal dragon when they come into contact with the crystals…

So basically you are saying the Slyvari are evil because they have resisted not one, but 5 different dragons influence?

You’re wrong on all counts.

Only DEAD humans were acting on Zhaitan’s influence. Zhaitan raised corpses, he did not control people, he simply used their corpse, implanted with new programming rather than their original personality. Only a few very powerful Risen such as King Rega remembered who he was in life after Zhaitan had used his corpse.

Branded are also not living Charr/Humans, but once they’d been branded their bodies get basically fossilized as walking crystal constructs.

Jormag’s minions make a choice to join his side and accept his power. A conscious choice.

None of those other races are constructs created as Dragon Minions, Sylvari are.

I enjoyed the patch, with that said. There was no conclusion to session 2. Session 1 you had scarlets death and an end to her madness. With this you just have yet another cliffhanger with no closure on the story, or even one of the many stories woven in to session 2. I’m not on the hype train for what ever HoT is, as we don’t know. Until ANet tell us what it is I’m going to remain “Meh” at it. I’ve enjoyed all of session 2 on the hole. The last 2 episodes where just too short, if we had known where the egg was or got it back, that would have been something. At the moment to me session 2 was a way to build hype for what ever HoT will be. And for me its failed.

Devildoc.6721:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Devildoc.6721:

Urosh Uchiha.9732:

Devildoc.6721:

If you did Crucible of Eternity you’ve known for 2 years that Sylvari were actually dragon minions not to be trusted.

Better put all Sylvari to the torch. I’ve been in support of that since oh, LS season 1 when Scarlet was revealed.

Yeah lets burn every race that has at least one evil person in their race (Let’s go with Scarlet being evil, I still have think they will reveal her as someone trying to do good but in a different way) aaaaand the world would be empty.

There’s a big difference here. You are not people. You are dragon minions. You are constructs. You are not born, you are created as an imitation. Knowledge is planted into your head, and you act on it. You do not learn your own perspective and choose your own path, your path is set before you, you are programmed.

The only difference is what knowledge was planted into your head prior to the Dragon’s Awakening was Ventari’s Teachings rather than the instructions of the Dragon.

Now the Dragon is awake, and able to reprogram Sylvari to serve him.

This isn’t a case of a few bad apples. This is the case of all Sylvari being vulnerable to corruption from the Dragon.

Also in other cases, people make conscious CHOICES to be evil but each person of you know ACTUAL people, Asura, Charr, Norn, Human, Tengu, Quaggan, Kodan, Skritt, Largos, even Krait (in their case it’s a cultural difference), each individual makes their own choices, so yes, it’s wrong to judge that entire group of people by the actions of one or a few.

However, Sylvari are not entities of free will and choice, they are constructs, they are programmed with a “wild hunt” which they are compelled to fulfill. Their life isn’t one of making choices, but one of obligation to fulfill their programming.

… and a Dragon can program them however he wishes.

Sort of like how humans were programmed to Zhatains will when they came in contact with him…

Or sort of how Norn’s will’s were programmed when they came in contact with Jormag…

Or sort of like how all Charr were programmed to serve the crystal dragon when they come into contact with the crystals…

So basically you are saying the Slyvari are evil because they have resisted not one, but 5 different dragons influence?

You’re wrong on all counts.

Only DEAD humans were acting on Zhaitan’s influence. Zhaitan raised corpses, he did not control people, he simply used their corpse, implanted with new programming rather than their original personality. Only a few very powerful Risen such as King Rega remembered who he was in life after Zhaitan had used his corpse.

Branded are also not living Charr/Humans, but once they’d been branded their bodies get basically fossilized as walking crystal constructs.

Jormag’s minions make a choice to join his side and accept his power. A conscious choice.

None of those other races are constructs created as Dragon Minions, Sylvari are.

Your also forgetting one key point. Zhitan could not corrupt Sylvari. There are no risen sylvari, no branded, no icebrood. Why? Because other dragons CAN NOT Corrupt other dragon minions.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Devildoc.6721:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Devildoc.6721:

Urosh Uchiha.9732:

Devildoc.6721:

If you did Crucible of Eternity you’ve known for 2 years that Sylvari were actually dragon minions not to be trusted.

Better put all Sylvari to the torch. I’ve been in support of that since oh, LS season 1 when Scarlet was revealed.

Yeah lets burn every race that has at least one evil person in their race (Let’s go with Scarlet being evil, I still have think they will reveal her as someone trying to do good but in a different way) aaaaand the world would be empty.

There’s a big difference here. You are not people. You are dragon minions. You are constructs. You are not born, you are created as an imitation. Knowledge is planted into your head, and you act on it. You do not learn your own perspective and choose your own path, your path is set before you, you are programmed.

The only difference is what knowledge was planted into your head prior to the Dragon’s Awakening was Ventari’s Teachings rather than the instructions of the Dragon.

Now the Dragon is awake, and able to reprogram Sylvari to serve him.

This isn’t a case of a few bad apples. This is the case of all Sylvari being vulnerable to corruption from the Dragon.

Also in other cases, people make conscious CHOICES to be evil but each person of you know ACTUAL people, Asura, Charr, Norn, Human, Tengu, Quaggan, Kodan, Skritt, Largos, even Krait (in their case it’s a cultural difference), each individual makes their own choices, so yes, it’s wrong to judge that entire group of people by the actions of one or a few.

However, Sylvari are not entities of free will and choice, they are constructs, they are programmed with a “wild hunt” which they are compelled to fulfill. Their life isn’t one of making choices, but one of obligation to fulfill their programming.

… and a Dragon can program them however he wishes.

Sort of like how humans were programmed to Zhatains will when they came in contact with him…

Or sort of how Norn’s will’s were programmed when they came in contact with Jormag…

Or sort of like how all Charr were programmed to serve the crystal dragon when they come into contact with the crystals…

So basically you are saying the Slyvari are evil because they have resisted not one, but 5 different dragons influence?

You’re wrong on all counts.

Only DEAD humans were acting on Zhaitan’s influence. Zhaitan raised corpses, he did not control people, he simply used their corpse, implanted with new programming rather than their original personality. Only a few very powerful Risen such as King Rega remembered who he was in life after Zhaitan had used his corpse.

Branded are also not living Charr/Humans, but once they’d been branded their bodies get basically fossilized as walking crystal constructs.

Jormag’s minions make a choice to join his side and accept his power. A conscious choice.

None of those other races are constructs created as Dragon Minions, Sylvari are.

Your also forgetting one key point. Zhitan could not corrupt Sylvari. There are no risen sylvari, no branded, no icebrood. Why? Because other dragons CAN NOT Corrupt other dragon minions.

Exactly, there’s also no Risen Branded, nor Risen Icebrood.

Once a construct is “owned” by a Dragon they cannot be made to serve a different Dragon.

Since Sylvari are owned by Mordremoth, they can’t serve other dragons, only Mordremoth.

So if you absolutely must use Sylvari in the Pact, they should all be segregated into their own all Sylvari units and used exclusively against other Dragons, such as Kralkatorrik and Jormag.

Those Sylvari who are not serving in the pact should be quarantined in the Grove, with fences and armed military posted outside, because you never know when they’ll betray you.

Devildoc.6721:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Devildoc.6721:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Devildoc.6721:

Urosh Uchiha.9732:

Devildoc.6721:

If you did Crucible of Eternity you’ve known for 2 years that Sylvari were actually dragon minions not to be trusted.

Better put all Sylvari to the torch. I’ve been in support of that since oh, LS season 1 when Scarlet was revealed.

Yeah lets burn every race that has at least one evil person in their race (Let’s go with Scarlet being evil, I still have think they will reveal her as someone trying to do good but in a different way) aaaaand the world would be empty.

There’s a big difference here. You are not people. You are dragon minions. You are constructs. You are not born, you are created as an imitation. Knowledge is planted into your head, and you act on it. You do not learn your own perspective and choose your own path, your path is set before you, you are programmed.

The only difference is what knowledge was planted into your head prior to the Dragon’s Awakening was Ventari’s Teachings rather than the instructions of the Dragon.

Now the Dragon is awake, and able to reprogram Sylvari to serve him.

This isn’t a case of a few bad apples. This is the case of all Sylvari being vulnerable to corruption from the Dragon.

Also in other cases, people make conscious CHOICES to be evil but each person of you know ACTUAL people, Asura, Charr, Norn, Human, Tengu, Quaggan, Kodan, Skritt, Largos, even Krait (in their case it’s a cultural difference), each individual makes their own choices, so yes, it’s wrong to judge that entire group of people by the actions of one or a few.

However, Sylvari are not entities of free will and choice, they are constructs, they are programmed with a “wild hunt” which they are compelled to fulfill. Their life isn’t one of making choices, but one of obligation to fulfill their programming.

… and a Dragon can program them however he wishes.

Sort of like how humans were programmed to Zhatains will when they came in contact with him…

Or sort of how Norn’s will’s were programmed when they came in contact with Jormag…

Or sort of like how all Charr were programmed to serve the crystal dragon when they come into contact with the crystals…

So basically you are saying the Slyvari are evil because they have resisted not one, but 5 different dragons influence?

You’re wrong on all counts.

Only DEAD humans were acting on Zhaitan’s influence. Zhaitan raised corpses, he did not control people, he simply used their corpse, implanted with new programming rather than their original personality. Only a few very powerful Risen such as King Rega remembered who he was in life after Zhaitan had used his corpse.

Branded are also not living Charr/Humans, but once they’d been branded their bodies get basically fossilized as walking crystal constructs.

Jormag’s minions make a choice to join his side and accept his power. A conscious choice.

None of those other races are constructs created as Dragon Minions, Sylvari are.

Your also forgetting one key point. Zhitan could not corrupt Sylvari. There are no risen sylvari, no branded, no icebrood. Why? Because other dragons CAN NOT Corrupt other dragon minions.

Exactly, there’s also no Risen Branded, nor Risen Icebrood.

Once a construct is “owned” by a Dragon they cannot be made to serve a different Dragon.

Since Sylvari are owned by Mordremoth, they can’t serve other dragons, only Mordremoth.

So if you absolutely must use Sylvari in the Pact, they should all be segregated into their own all Sylvari units and used exclusively against other Dragons, such as Kralkatorrik and Jormag.

Those Sylvari who are not serving in the pact should be quarantined in the Grove, with fences and armed military posted outside, because you never know when they’ll betray you.

Yeah…… history shows that’ll go over REAL well….. :P

Gaile Gray.6029:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

It was a good ending.

The only down side is that ANet is still enamored with the darn twigs. twig twig twig twig It would be nice if the Charr or Norn or, heaven forbid, humans were the hub of the story instead of the boring twigs.

And see, I think the “twigs” are pretty fascinating, so….

You and me both. Too bad the threats and the rude messages from other people towards my main Sylvari character are so off-putting, even it they are meant to be a joke, or I would be playing the game instead of posting here.
Sigh… It can’t be helped.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

It was a good ending.

The only down side is that ANet is still enamored with the darn twigs. twig twig twig twig It would be nice if the Charr or Norn or, heaven forbid, humans were the hub of the story instead of the boring twigs.

And see, I think the “twigs” are pretty fascinating, so….

That’s the problem, anet finds them TOO fascinating and neglects the other races to turn this whole game into Sylvari Wars 2.

I’m just… disappointed, really. That’s the only word for it.

Disappointed that the writing team thinks it’s a good idea to drop something like this on a playable race two years in. If this had been open knowledge upfront, I’d be serene with it.

Disappointed that they think it’s a good idea to throw gasoline on the fire so all the players salivating for an excuse to get their pretend-racism on can go into a feeding frenzy, in and out of character.

And more than a little disappointed that I’ve spent so much time and effort doing RP and painting sylvari. The latter in particular feels like a lot of wasted time right now.

The writing obsesses over the main species I play nowadays (making players of all the other ones feel shafted), yet they do it in such a way that just keeps throwing them under the bus and feeding the CAN’T TRUST THEM CABBAGES crowd.

There’s a chance that the writers might be able to pull this off in a way that makes it palatable to me (and I strongly suspect the end will be okay). But the trip to get there is looking so unenjoyable that I really don’t know if I want to stick around for it.

can we take a cutting from a sylvari and grow a new one if they happen to have just died? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YiIxopZKpY

Getefix.9150:

can we take a cutting from a sylvari and grow a new one if they happen to have just died? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YiIxopZKpY

Now I want the baby groot dance in game. :P

Ismial.3825:

I’m just… disappointed, really. That’s the only word for it.

Disappointed that the writing team thinks it’s a good idea to drop something like this on a playable race two years in. If this had been open knowledge upfront, I’d be serene with it.

Disappointed that they think it’s a good idea to throw gasoline on the fire so all the players salivating for an excuse to get their pretend-racism on can go into a feeding frenzy, in and out of character.

And more than a little disappointed that I’ve spent so much time and effort doing RP and painting sylvari. The latter in particular feels like a lot of wasted time right now.

The writing obsesses over the main species I play nowadays (making players of all the other ones feel shafted), yet they do it in such a way that just keeps throwing them under the bus and feeding the CAN’T TRUST THEM CABBAGES crowd.

There’s a chance that the writers might be able to pull this off in a way that makes it palatable to me (and I strongly suspect the end will be okay). But the trip to get there is looking so unenjoyable that I really don’t know if I want to stick around for it.

You’re not a real role player if you can’t handle what the DM/GM throws at ya =P

Played through with my husband last night. I was on the edge of my seat the entire time and even teared up a little when Turai and The Forgotten were mentioned. I even felt the frustration when I completed the “Ascension” mission and decimated my evil doppelganger!
I can’t tell you how many times I had to do that mission! LOL!

This brought back so many great memories of Guild Wars. Nice job!

FrizzFreston.5290:

You’re not a real role player if you can’t handle what the DM/GM throws at ya =P

I believe the problem is not what they did to the Sylvari, but the way the players reacted.
I just went in game and asked one of my RP guild what was the guild’s position regarding the Sylvari (as in, if it was “safe” to me to bring my Sylvari to RP events) exactly because of all the hate they are getting from the other players.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

It was a good ending.

The only down side is that ANet is still enamored with the darn twigs. twig twig twig twig It would be nice if the Charr or Norn or, heaven forbid, humans were the hub of the story instead of the boring twigs.

Hey, human, you got a whole game all to yourself. Stop complaining

Time to grind out incinerators! Yumiko wants to burn something leafy!

Ismial.3825:

I’m just… disappointed, really. That’s the only word for it.

Disappointed that the writing team thinks it’s a good idea to drop something like this on a playable race two years in. If this had been open knowledge upfront, I’d be serene with it.

Disappointed that they think it’s a good idea to throw gasoline on the fire so all the players salivating for an excuse to get their pretend-racism on can go into a feeding frenzy, in and out of character.

And more than a little disappointed that I’ve spent so much time and effort doing RP and painting sylvari. The latter in particular feels like a lot of wasted time right now.

The writing obsesses over the main species I play nowadays (making players of all the other ones feel shafted), yet they do it in such a way that just keeps throwing them under the bus and feeding the CAN’T TRUST THEM CABBAGES crowd.

There’s a chance that the writers might be able to pull this off in a way that makes it palatable to me (and I strongly suspect the end will be okay). But the trip to get there is looking so unenjoyable that I really don’t know if I want to stick around for it.

To be fair….. there are no sylvari undead….

They were pretty much immune to the undead dragon’s corruption….

….but vulnerable to another.

Something that people haven’t really been looking at is the possibility that Scarlet wasn’t completely corrupted (yet).

Maybe what she saw in Omadd’s machine gave her the knowledge that her destiny had been entirely laid out for her: either by her true progenitor Mordremoth or by the Mother Tree. There were hints all along that Scarlet was trying to discover if she had any free will at all and she was determined to be more than she had been intended to be.

Yes, it’s clear that in the end her intention had been to awaken Mordremoth. But was that her end goal?

My question has always been, why did she build the Marionette? Scarlet was insane, but there was a method to her madness. I believe it was to use in the fight against Mordremoth. Could her people (by way of her) prove that they were more than the dragon’s minions?

I believe the Pale Tree has indoctrinated her children with Ventari’s teachings in order to prevent them from being Mordremoth’s direct puppets, but that doesn’t change the fact that they must live under that directive or risk becoming dragon minions. Nightmare isn’t an alternative to this situation; it’s probably actually Mordremoth. That’s not much of a choice and Scarlet sought to change that entire system.

Ismial.3825:

I’m just… disappointed, really. That’s the only word for it.

Disappointed that the writing team thinks it’s a good idea to drop something like this on a playable race two years in. If this had been open knowledge upfront, I’d be serene with it.

Disappointed that they think it’s a good idea to throw gasoline on the fire so all the players salivating for an excuse to get their pretend-racism on can go into a feeding frenzy, in and out of character.

And more than a little disappointed that I’ve spent so much time and effort doing RP and painting sylvari. The latter in particular feels like a lot of wasted time right now.

The writing obsesses over the main species I play nowadays (making players of all the other ones feel shafted), yet they do it in such a way that just keeps throwing them under the bus and feeding the CAN’T TRUST THEM CABBAGES crowd.

There’s a chance that the writers might be able to pull this off in a way that makes it palatable to me (and I strongly suspect the end will be okay). But the trip to get there is looking so unenjoyable that I really don’t know if I want to stick around for it.

It might not have been explicit, but it’s been very heavily hinted at since launch – look at Malyck; look at the Pale Reavers; look at the dichotomy of Dream and Nightmare. The hints only got stronger as LS 1 progressed; it didn’t just get dropped on us last Tuesday.

Vayne.8563:

IIvIIozzie.9250:

Caithe’s actions are a pretty absurd thing to defend. She makes no real attempt to save the life of an innocent from this psychopath, and instead decides to murder with the approval of the murdered. Does the fact that Wynne tell’s her to do it make the act acceptable? That Wynne decides on the spot that this is the best option instead of the two of them defending themselves from the incoming attack is flat out bizarre.

Those that are defending Caithe’s decision let me ask, would you do the same? Would you really choose to kill your friend/relative instead of defending them? Is that what you think love is?

Except that’s human morality. Sylvari don’t really have the same idea about death, and more importantly, she was fulfilling Wynne’s Wilde Hunt by Winne’s request, which is important to a Sylavri.

But put this another way. Suppose she decides to protect Wynne instead and Faolin defeats her. She tortures Wynne, gets the secret and the secret gets out.

The only way to protect her race at that point, the only failsafe way, is to kill Wynne.

It’s entirely possible in Caithe’s mind that Faolin could beat her if it came to it.

It might even be more simple than that. Where was Wynne going to go? Maybe she escaped that particular moment, but then what? Spend the rest of her life on the run from Faolin? Wynne obviously wasn’t capable of hiding for years and years. Would Caithe have spent the rest of her life defending Wynne?

If she turned to fight Faolin, Star NPC Problem aside, Faolin is a tough cookie. Like Vayne said, Caithe might not have been able to take her down and then Caithe would have fallen for nothing.

This season finale is a solid chapter. The fights were fun, the story finally talked about the truth behind Sylvari (which could have easily been predicted since Scarlet’s first made her appearance,) and we are finally being set up for something much bigger hopefully in the Heart of Thorns.

I hated Living Story Season 2 overall because it felt completely underwhelming to me as it failed to live up to the hype in my perspective. However, chapters 5 and 8 I believe deserve to be praised as what I believe to be the best chapters of the season; hopefully we’ll see future content in the Heart of Thorns that compares with if not exceeds that shown in chapters 5 and 8 of season 2.

Cheers, ANet! Good season finale. Regarding the Heart of Thorns, just remember this:

There are no brakes on the Hype Train.

Mitha.7039:

Please tell me this will have SOME effect on those of us who chose to play Sylvari…

They could make something different for sylvari…
For example, on the next chapter of the story (expansion, whatever it is) when sylvari players enter the new zones for the first time he/she starts hearing the “voice” of Mord and starts getting random conditions of “Confusion” and/or “Fear” (like he is starting to succumb to Mord mind control). When this happens, he/she receives a letter from Canach saying he was able to make an artifact/potion that protects sylvari from this effect, and then they complete that quest to protect the player from this influence.

Can i just make a quick observation? Dont know if it has been mentioned before, but….

During the mordrem attack on Camp Resolve, we practicly nuke the entire camp. But as every other times out in the open world, it only hurts the mordrem while it is still quite clear that its mainly explosives. In a gameplay point of view it makes perfect sense that there is no friendly fire for something this powerfull (or anything else really), but it felt really off that we call in an airstrike as the last desperate act, and it just solves every problem without any major consequences on the integrity of the camp. That would otherwise suggest why we dont use the airships all the time.

Writers should be aware of what is simply gameplay convenience, and what should have real consequences otherwise. The attack on Mordremoth wouldnt had to be delayed or cancelled, as the airship fleet would still be intact, but showing camp Resolve in an after-siege almost ruined state would have built more tension.

Otherwise, loved the episode a lot.

Gabby.3205:

FrizzFreston.5290:

You’re not a real role player if you can’t handle what the DM/GM throws at ya =P

I believe the problem is not what they did to the Sylvari, but the way the players reacted.
I just went in game and asked one of my RP guild what was the guild’s position regarding the Sylvari (as in, if it was “safe” to me to bring my Sylvari to RP events) exactly because of all the hate they are getting from the other players.

Although not being in any RP guild myself, I’d expect that in a role play community, at least the discussion of such points would either be discussed beforehand (before an event), or that those who aren’t sylvari would do some thinking on what their character’s stance is on the subject. It’s a pretty important thing to organize, especially during such an important change. Do you treat it as common knowledge or do you treat it as only one person knows this information.

If anything, it would be a pretty interesting scenario to play out at the very least. I don’t see why there should be any hate towards the actual players playing sylvari. It might be tough on your sylvari character, but surely it’s also a challenge to prove that your character is trustworthy. Canach is a pretty good example to go from, and I would say he’s not the purest good of the sylvari to begin with.

plant drones huh?
And thats why for some time i said this:

We are Sylvari, lower your defences and prepare to be assimilated into the Dream.

Resistance is Futile!

more funny because i use the Dreamer to shoot enemies.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Your also forgetting one key point. Zhitan could not corrupt Sylvari. There are no risen sylvari, no branded, no icebrood. Why? Because other dragons CAN NOT Corrupt other dragon minions.

/sigh

Sylvari couldn’t be corrupted by the Elder Dragons (other than the mental whammies of Mordremoth) because there’s no time for them too. When a Sylvari dies they shrivel up into unusable husk near moments after death, and their “immunity” against the other Elder Dragons’ corruption was death. They weren’t magically resistant or anything. They just simply die and shrivel up.

Plus, the Inquest has shown that a single being can carry multiple dragon corruptions at once. It happened in a lab, but it’s still a very clear example of a multi-corrupted being. So unless there is a dev or ingame quote stating it isn’t possible for it to happen naturally, the whole “Because Sylvari can’t be corrupted obviously that means all dragon minions can’t be corrupted by another Dragon” argument can’t simply stand on its own, because we never seen how the other types of minions react when they come into contact with other corruptions.

SPOILERS: just in case

I’ve been relatively happy with season 2. Living story is the main thing that has kept me playing gw2. Some criticisms though.

As some have probably mentioned there’s a few rough edges in the writing. In this particular chapter the 2 things that bugged me the most where the quest revolving around turai ossa and parts of the boss fight.

The turai ossa quest just didn’t make sense to me. I understood that forgotten magic was similar to the old human gods so their magic might affect the door, but I didn’t see the logic behind breaking the seal on a book about turai summoning his spirit, and then instead of his spirit being angry or confused like that he has you fight enchanted weapons and worms so he can sit on his throne?? was he a king at some point?

the blurb about him beforehand said he died out in the wilderness with his group. then you collect crystals for.. reasons. and he turns them into the torch. why, why and why?

it seemed like some jibberish stitched together to give you a reason to fight something.. anything.. I don’t think we need combat thrown in the middle of a quest just because. I’d rather have an interesting story thats all text and dialogue than some nonsense made up so I have to kill stuff.

If I"m missing things and there are good reasons for why we did what we did thats a different story, but the way it was presented it just didn’t make sense and I really didn’t enjoy that part.

aside from that segment it was pretty good, and the “twist” was enjoyable even though it was guessed by fans long ago.

This other part is just nitpicking, overall the boss fights have gotten 100 times better ( I really really enjoyed fighting the krait hybrid at the top of the tower), but when we are made to solo enemies 100’s of times our size in video games without any heavy artillery it just seems silly for the sake of gameplay. why did the shadow trap and fight just us ignoring everyone else including caithe who had the egg “I assume what it was after”. Also why does it sit on the wall occasionally swatting at us, but mostly letting us fight adds in piece instead of just smearing us on the floor like a fly.

it would have been cooler for me and more believable if since we were in a solo situation had to run from the beast through some sort of obstacle course trying to get away and eventually get it trapped in falling debris and then go in for the kill.

or why didn’t rox toss us the torch at the beginning then we use that get a bunch of new ascended powers while wielding it allowing us to go toe to toe with the beast..

I guess what I’m trying to say with the writing is I don’t like to see good writing and logic sit waaaay in the back to make room for easy to do gameplay mechanics. Not even really using some of the stuff thats unique to this game.

I wasn’t expecting the segue into an expansion annoucement, but now that I know I’m somewhat excited provided that some new features are added or existing mechanics changed or expanded on. I really want to see something shake the foundation of this game. for me it has remained largely the same as beta as far as how its played and what their is to do.

I’ve never seen any of what I would consider major class changes since launch, my home instance remains unused minus resource nodes and a couple of quaagan. NPC’s do not react differently at all to my personality choices, nor my level. “There’s an asura in metrica inbetween different level areas who warns me that I’m too inexperienced for the road ahead even though my character is max level and decked out”

There’s still uncompleted fair section in divinities reach. why can I still not go there and have dozens of mini games to play? go to the pub and get in a bar brawl using only pickups as weapons etc.

I could rant on but I’ll stop here for now.

please give us more than just more zones and a higher level cap.

Thanks

After watching the cinematic at the end, it occurred to me that the Pale Tree betrayed the Pact by failing to mention the minor detail revealed at the end about the sylvari. I know the avatar is in a wounded state now, but I would think that Trahearne probably should have been given that bit of information once the news that the jungle dragon was active was acquired. Without that information, the Pact was on a course for destruction. Was the mother withholding that information till the last minute and then was wounded before she could say or was she always going to remain silent?

right now i’m confused… did Caithe steal the egg from me because the Sylvari are tied to Mordremoth? after all we’ve been through for the last 3 years, taking down Zhaitan, ME being responsible for DE getting get together, she doesn’t trust me at all? she decides to abandon DE when they’re a Charr short, essentially learning nothing from Logan’s previous mistake?

episodes 1-5 combined together was really exciting and felt worthy of being called a season. but then episode 6-8 totally ignored so much of the setup from before just to focus on an egg hunt.

don’t get me wrong, i loved a lot of the lore and throwbacks to GW1 in the second half of the season. the trouble is, episodes 1-4 each had 5 story steps each, while episodes 6-8 only had 3 each.

episode 6 felt like i was finally getting somewhere, catching up to Master of Peace and the egg, (finally going to kick that football! when suddenly Lucy pulls it out from under me again, so i miss the kick… again, then laughs and laughs and laughs and calls me a fool for falling for the same old trick one more time.), and Caithe suddenly decides that unifying Tyria against the dragons is garbage? SHe decides she’s not a team player after all? She decides that she and she alone can guard the egg? when the Master of Peace died in front of her believing he could protect it by himself? After everything she’s fought for and against, especially the nightmare court, you expect me to believe she’d betray me like that? at least Scarlett had the excuse of looking into Ormadd’s Machine to cause her insanity. Caithe has NO excuse.

i also felt cheated inside that Forgotten Cave. i was expecting something in there would hold some key to something. Wynne’s secret could have been told anywhere else in the world and it would have had the same impact. it feels like the Forgotten ruins had nothing to do with the story at all. it was just an excuse to delay the “plot twist.” i feel like there should have been a giant runestone or magic artifact in that cave. something that would give me an advantage in a fight, or some indication that Mordremoth already Awoke and was setting a trap for the Pact. and then a fourth story step showing me race back to camp resolve to find the Pact had already left, and i was too late to warn them about the trap.

PS: my ranting here is rooted in deep passion for Guild Wars 2 and its predecessor. i still really enjoy the game. even though i’m disappointed and pointed out some things i think could have been done better, i am so thick into this game i’ve written some of my own fan-fiction for perusal by my guildmates.

PPS: i really love the silverwastes. the Vinewraith was a great addition to a solid map.

Devildoc.6721:

Urosh Uchiha.9732:

Devildoc.6721:

Urosh Uchiha.9732:

Devildoc.6721:

If you did Crucible of Eternity you’ve known for 2 years that Sylvari were actually dragon minions not to be trusted.

Better put all Sylvari to the torch. I’ve been in support of that since oh, LS season 1 when Scarlet was revealed.

Yeah lets burn every race that has at least one evil person in their race (Let’s go with Scarlet being evil, I still have think they will reveal her as someone trying to do good but in a different way) aaaaand the world would be empty.

There’s a big difference here. You are not people. You are dragon minions. You are constructs. You are not born, you are created as an imitation. Knowledge is planted into your head, and you act on it. You do not learn your own perspective and choose your own path, your path is set before you, you are programmed.

The only difference is what knowledge was planted into your head prior to the Dragon’s Awakening was Ventari’s Teachings rather than the instructions of the Dragon.

Now the Dragon is awake, and able to reprogram Sylvari to serve him.

This isn’t a case of a few bad apples. This is the case of all Sylvari being vulnerable to corruption from the Dragon.

Also in other cases, people make conscious CHOICES to be evil but each person of you know ACTUAL people, Asura, Charr, Norn, Human, Tengu, Quaggan, Kodan, Skritt, Largos, even Krait (in their case it’s a cultural difference), each individual makes their own choices, so yes, it’s wrong to judge that entire group of people by the actions of one or a few.

However, Sylvari are not entities of free will and choice, they are constructs, they are programmed with a “wild hunt” which they are compelled to fulfill. Their life isn’t one of making choices, but one of obligation to fulfill their programming.

… and a Dragon can program them however he wishes.

This is not yet proven. No one in game can you find yet that the dragon can corrupt/reprogram all sylvari. Sylvari have free will, which was proven so many times, some decide to be good little boys and girls and follow the rules, others don’t. That is still free will no matter what you decide.

They are not constructs, no one is making them piece by piece, they actually are born. Not from a gaping kitten but from a tree, they are still born.

Not born, synthesized. It is not reproduction that the Pale Tree does, she creates Sylvari as an imitation of the human bodies she grew on top of.

Just like a factory that would make androids makes imitations of human beings. These are just robots made of wood and leaves rather than steel and plastic.

The Pale Tree is just SKYNET with different programming and different materials to work with.

Remember you’re all jacked into something similar to a hive mind at all times. Your purpose and life and even your personality is pre-programmed.

You’re not people, you’re plant androids.

People are born as infants, they grow and mature into adults, and they in turn have children of their own. They’re born as ignorant blank slates with no real purpose, they create their own purpose and personality as they experience life and make choices and judgments

Sylvari are incapable of these things. They aren’t born, they “awake”, as the imitations of fully mature adults, they already have knowledge from their programming and are able to speak and walk instantly. They do not have children of their own, they are all drones.

That doesn’t really explain Malyck, a sylvari of unknown origins who doesn’t have a wyld hunt goal because he never experienced the dream or the nightmare before his birth. Instead he was born as a blank slate, so you could say that he possesses more free will than the ones who come from the Pale Tree at least.

I also believe that the Sylvari are actually the souls of humans or druids from the mists who were reincarnated and ‘reprogrammed’ with certain drives and intentions thanks to the pale tree’s influence. The dream is the collective memories of their past lives. The souls within the mists act as one giant “free for all” for both the Pale Tree and Mordremoth, considering that both beings were stated strong to have ties to the mists and the eternal alchemy within the in-game lore. Malyck and his kind are different in the sense that he appears to be cut off from the influence of the mists and the eternal alchemy altogether, which may suggest that his tree possesses stronger sense of free will from Modremoth’s influence and therefore doesn’t need to “push” its children in the right direction with wyld hunts or tablet commandments.

Overall I really liked this season, especially the new boss mechanics. However, I do wish there was a bit more open world group content like the Marionette and Vinelash.

Also, the two breaks were kind of a buzz-kill. I hope we don’t have to wait months between episodes again during a season.

Mitha.7039:

An idea I had was the idea of Sylvari characters being randomly attacked while in non-Grove major cities (not major named characters, just random spawned enemies) meaning you have to stay on your toes and stick to the Grove… seems to make sense to me.

If this is the case, I hope my human PC will have the opportunity to help defend the Sylvari in question too!

Devildoc.6721:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Devildoc.6721:

Urosh Uchiha.9732:

Devildoc.6721:

If you did Crucible of Eternity you’ve known for 2 years that Sylvari were actually dragon minions not to be trusted.

Better put all Sylvari to the torch. I’ve been in support of that since oh, LS season 1 when Scarlet was revealed.

Yeah lets burn every race that has at least one evil person in their race (Let’s go with Scarlet being evil, I still have think they will reveal her as someone trying to do good but in a different way) aaaaand the world would be empty.

There’s a big difference here. You are not people. You are dragon minions. You are constructs. You are not born, you are created as an imitation. Knowledge is planted into your head, and you act on it. You do not learn your own perspective and choose your own path, your path is set before you, you are programmed.

The only difference is what knowledge was planted into your head prior to the Dragon’s Awakening was Ventari’s Teachings rather than the instructions of the Dragon.

Now the Dragon is awake, and able to reprogram Sylvari to serve him.

This isn’t a case of a few bad apples. This is the case of all Sylvari being vulnerable to corruption from the Dragon.

Also in other cases, people make conscious CHOICES to be evil but each person of you know ACTUAL people, Asura, Charr, Norn, Human, Tengu, Quaggan, Kodan, Skritt, Largos, even Krait (in their case it’s a cultural difference), each individual makes their own choices, so yes, it’s wrong to judge that entire group of people by the actions of one or a few.

However, Sylvari are not entities of free will and choice, they are constructs, they are programmed with a “wild hunt” which they are compelled to fulfill. Their life isn’t one of making choices, but one of obligation to fulfill their programming.

… and a Dragon can program them however he wishes.

Sort of like how humans were programmed to Zhatains will when they came in contact with him…

Or sort of how Norn’s will’s were programmed when they came in contact with Jormag…

Or sort of like how all Charr were programmed to serve the crystal dragon when they come into contact with the crystals…

So basically you are saying the Slyvari are evil because they have resisted not one, but 5 different dragons influence?

You’re wrong on all counts.

Only DEAD humans were acting on Zhaitan’s influence. Zhaitan raised corpses, he did not control people, he simply used their corpse, implanted with new programming rather than their original personality. Only a few very powerful Risen such as King Rega remembered who he was in life after Zhaitan had used his corpse.

Branded are also not living Charr/Humans, but once they’d been branded their bodies get basically fossilized as walking crystal constructs.

Jormag’s minions make a choice to join his side and accept his power. A conscious choice.

None of those other races are constructs created as Dragon Minions, Sylvari are.

Devildoc,

Kellach would like a word with you. He was not dead when Zaihtan corrupted him.

A lot of people think that sylvari are independent of mordrem oath because of something that the Pale tree did, something that Ronan or Ventauri did, or something that has to do with Glint and the Egg.

We’ll see about the Egg, but I would note that the Pale tree is herself a creation of Mordemoth & probably the dream too, and a dragon that can be co-opted by putting signs on trees isn’t worth fighting.

The best way for the story to continue is to not immediately walk back this relevation by turning into a cliche ‘slave revolts against evil master’ story. After all, why would a Dragon be so suicidal? And hopefully we do not get Divergent ‘love conquers the rules of the universe’ blather that makes investment in the story pointless.

And if sylvari are dragon minions, then they can’t be trusted. Every one of them, even unknowingly is a spy for the dragon.

So why would sylvari help us defeat Zhaitan (Trahearn’s purpose). Mordremoth must have wanted that, the same way that it was another sylvari who revealed the truth of sylvari to us.

Mordremoth seems to actually be trying to negotiate.

If sylvari dreams and Wylde hunts are any indication, Mordermoth wants to take out the other dragons after Zhaitan.

So I don’t think that we get our PvPvE map with world bosses, and racial Pvp just yet.

Instead, I bet that this plot point is allowed to linger and boil while some new threat arises. Even Racial Hatred (justifiable) can be set aside temporarily by the need to come together to fight a new threat.

If the egg turns out to be anything other than a red herring, we might find ourselves allying with Mordremoth/sylvari to go after, say, Krakatorrick or Bubbles/Steve before finally dealing with Mordremoth.

DarcShriek.5829:

Devildoc.6721:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Devildoc.6721:

Urosh Uchiha.9732:

Devildoc.6721:

If you did Crucible of Eternity you’ve known for 2 years that Sylvari were actually dragon minions not to be trusted.

Better put all Sylvari to the torch. I’ve been in support of that since oh, LS season 1 when Scarlet was revealed.

Yeah lets burn every race that has at least one evil person in their race (Let’s go with Scarlet being evil, I still have think they will reveal her as someone trying to do good but in a different way) aaaaand the world would be empty.

There’s a big difference here. You are not people. You are dragon minions. You are constructs. You are not born, you are created as an imitation. Knowledge is planted into your head, and you act on it. You do not learn your own perspective and choose your own path, your path is set before you, you are programmed.

The only difference is what knowledge was planted into your head prior to the Dragon’s Awakening was Ventari’s Teachings rather than the instructions of the Dragon.

Now the Dragon is awake, and able to reprogram Sylvari to serve him.

This isn’t a case of a few bad apples. This is the case of all Sylvari being vulnerable to corruption from the Dragon.

Also in other cases, people make conscious CHOICES to be evil but each person of you know ACTUAL people, Asura, Charr, Norn, Human, Tengu, Quaggan, Kodan, Skritt, Largos, even Krait (in their case it’s a cultural difference), each individual makes their own choices, so yes, it’s wrong to judge that entire group of people by the actions of one or a few.

However, Sylvari are not entities of free will and choice, they are constructs, they are programmed with a “wild hunt” which they are compelled to fulfill. Their life isn’t one of making choices, but one of obligation to fulfill their programming.

… and a Dragon can program them however he wishes.

Sort of like how humans were programmed to Zhatains will when they came in contact with him…

Or sort of how Norn’s will’s were programmed when they came in contact with Jormag…

Or sort of like how all Charr were programmed to serve the crystal dragon when they come into contact with the crystals…

So basically you are saying the Slyvari are evil because they have resisted not one, but 5 different dragons influence?

You’re wrong on all counts.

Only DEAD humans were acting on Zhaitan’s influence. Zhaitan raised corpses, he did not control people, he simply used their corpse, implanted with new programming rather than their original personality. Only a few very powerful Risen such as King Rega remembered who he was in life after Zhaitan had used his corpse.

Branded are also not living Charr/Humans, but once they’d been branded their bodies get basically fossilized as walking crystal constructs.

Jormag’s minions make a choice to join his side and accept his power. A conscious choice.

None of those other races are constructs created as Dragon Minions, Sylvari are.

Devildoc,

Kellach would like a word with you. He was not dead when Zaihtan corrupted him.

Kellach was carrying an artifact that was driving him crazy and well, rotting him from the inside out if I remember correctly. It was making him undead without dying first.

I have a question did Mordramon actually wiped out the pacts forces and Destiny’s Edge?
Also is the PC dragon minion strong or even stronger?

adormtil.1605:

I have a question did Mordramon actually wiped out the pacts forces and Destiny’s Edge?
Also is the PC dragon minion strong or even stronger?

We don’t know yet if everyone died, but it seems likely.
And what do you mean by the PC dragon minion?

Gabby.3205:

adormtil.1605:

I have a question did Mordramon actually wiped out the pacts forces and Destiny’s Edge?
Also is the PC dragon minion strong or even stronger?

We don’t know yet if everyone died, but it seems likely.
And what do you mean by the PC dragon minion?

Player Character lorewise is as strong or stronger then a dragon champion?
You know like the final boss of the season.

adormtil.1605:

Gabby.3205:

adormtil.1605:

I have a question did Mordramon actually wiped out the pacts forces and Destiny’s Edge?
Also is the PC dragon minion strong or even stronger?

We don’t know yet if everyone died, but it seems likely.
And what do you mean by the PC dragon minion?

Player Character lorewise is as strong or stronger then a dragon champion?
You know like the final boss of the season.

Ooh, I see.
I believe that the PC is not as strong as the dragon champion, lore-wise. They had help to take it down (even if, gameplay-wise, that help was almost irrelevant).