Scarlet hate

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Aarean.5398

Aarean.5398

Theres obviously a ton of hate for scarlet right now and people are sick of her but perhaps this is what anet wanted? We all hate her REGARDLESS of the reasons why, this gives anet an emotional reaction out of us and they have the perfect platform for giving us some good LS content tied to her downfall. At this point we all want to erase her from existence so perhaps anet has a good agenda for her related to this, or possibly they wanted a completely different reaction out of us regarding her and it flopped horribly…. thoughts?

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

It is how scarlet is more of the same, alliance with potatoes and onions, after that why not make an alliance of mushrooms and snakes, and this kind of centent is all LS is about.

I could say that the role of Scarlet is just to take some time from Tyrians while something big hide behind her,but again GW2 desing is far from being anythign worth it.

p.S It is not the character, its how Anet is using scarlet and those pseudo alliances and sorry the bad english.

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Tremain.4623

Tremain.4623

I don’t understand the Scarlet hate. She is no worse than treahern or kormir or shiro or rurik. People act like she is ruining some incredible story, newflash: it already sucked just as bad before. This ain’t lord of the ring folks.

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

I don’t understand the Scarlet hate. She is no worse than treahern or kormir or shiro or rurik. People act like she is ruining some incredible story, newflash: it already sucked just as bad before. This ain’t lord of the ring folks.

I’ve noted this as well. The Lich and Shiro weren’t well fleshed out villains (Shiro was exceptionally dire) and Rurik was generally despised in the same way Logan is. The Prophecies and Factions stories were beyond woeful – I’m playing through them again now on HM and the story and the missions are cringeworthy to play. Far more than most of the GW2 storylines. And then Nightfall came along and whilst an improved story, suddenly everything that came before was suddenly and conveniently “oh yeah that was all Abaddon”.

I’m not a fan of Scarlet myself and agree with most of the complaints about her, but it’s not totally out of line with the quality of GW storytelling that has come before. And frankly MMO storytelling is rarely amazing anyway. I also play LOTRO, and believe me…I dream of GW2 level storytelling over there…and they have actual source material to use!!!!!!

The thing we have to remember is the devs have acknowledged the problem with Scarlet and confirmed an end is written in. Regardless of whether we like/want etc the Living Temp Story concept, they are working 4 months behind our feedback at least. It was simply too late to remove her from the story given their schedule. All this is being addressed and hopefully we will see improvements down the line.

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Sakri.7234

Sakri.7234

There is a difference between a villain that one loves to hate and that one just hates. Scarlet is latter.

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

If you play through the Lich story, it seems to snake in all directions before it makes any real sense, much like the Scarlet story. This was a frequent complaint at the time. It’s extremely messy in fact mission by mission as you play – it really isn’t until the end the confusing threadlines start to make any sense and some are done tenuously. That in many ways parallels the Scarlet issue – they may yet pull all this together and make sense in the same way.

The only positive I will draw from Prophecies as a story in comparison was that at least you had it all there to play through as and when you wanted. With the LS, we are drip fed it and I think that has compounded the issue. If the whole story was laid down from start to finish like Propehecies, it is arguable the complaints would be less loud.

I’m not defending Scarlet, I’m not going to bareface lie and say she’s a great villain, but historically speaking, all I’m saying is there is precedent for poor villains in the past.

(edited by Randulf.7614)

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: StriderShinryu.6923

StriderShinryu.6923

I find it sort of curious that the best defense of Scarlet boils down to “Well, the story wasn’t good before her either!” From where I stand, that’s a pretty poor excuse. We should want better instead of just being satisfied with more of the same.

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Wizzlock.3492

Wizzlock.3492

Nope.
There are characters You love to hate and there are poorly written toons, You hate because they are stealing valuable “screen time”. Scarlet is latter.

Actually – Scarlet is personification of everything I hate in LS (shallow, poorly written, half baked, irritating, grindy, made of lack of respect and any reason to existing lore).
But hey – You can call her perfect villain if You want. I barely play anymore. I spend more time on forums than in-game. She actually defeated my gamer spirit. That’s how “amazing” she is. But I really think it’s opposite to what Anet tried to achieve. If they planned anything (with this level of story “polishing”, I really, reaaaaally have my doubts)

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Thobek.1730

Thobek.1730

Theres obviously a ton of hate for scarlet right now and people are sick of her but perhaps this is what anet wanted? We all hate her REGARDLESS of the reasons why, this gives anet an emotional reaction out of us and they have the perfect platform for giving us some good LS content tied to her downfall.

I don’t really like this explanation. Getting people to hate the villain through bad writing, and bad character development is NOT a good way to design the main villain.

She as a character is not even annoying. What is annoying is how she is used to drive ALL the content we have – Scarlet did it. I would even prefer it if Mai Trin received more of the spotlight so its not all Scarlet.

So out of the two ways to get people to hate Scarlet this is the worst. She more like a mosquito buzzing around your face, you just want to swat it away.

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Qawsada.4251

Qawsada.4251

If you play through the Lich story, it seems to snake in all directions before it makes any real sense, much like the Scarlet story. This was a frequent complaint at the time.

Yes, because the white mantle were oh so nice npcs that is willing to help us. Even if the Vizier is obvious that he looks like a villain, prier to the point where he reveal us, he help and save the PC numerous of times. Hell, he even advice us to go to the Crystal Desert and at that time, it made sense. The only complaint I recall back then was Rurik dying like a Wammo he was, the farming nerf of the Griffons, Warrior dying extremely fast with Frenzy and Healing signet up, and the Monk Strike in Thunderhead Keep.

It’s extremely messy in fact mission by mission as you play – it really isn’t until the end the confusing threadlines start to make any sense and some are done tenuously. That in many ways parallels the Scarlet issue – they may yet pull all this together and make sense in the same way.

The story wasn’t messy at all and it was straight forward as we follow the part to the end of it. Comparing the Prophesies with that crap excuse of Scarlet is asinine, especially when the story of Scarlet is horrible, every reveal is “Scarlet did it”, and how Scarlet is breaking the very game lore/story of Guild Wars just by existing.

I’m not defending Scarlet, I’m not going to bareface lie and say she’s a great villain, but historically speaking, all I’m saying is there is precedent for poor villains in the past.

And from that point, I think you are just saying the opposite. It seem you just want Scarlet in because Prophecies was extreme bad at you. You see people crap on Scarlet and you see this as an opportunity to crap at everything else about Guild Wars to make her look good.

I don’t really like this explanation. Getting people to hate the villain through bad writing, and bad character development is NOT a good way to design the main villain.

She as a character is not even annoying. What is annoying is how she is used to drive ALL the content we have – Scarlet did it. I would even prefer it if Mai Trin received more of the spotlight so its not all Scarlet.

So out of the two ways to get people to hate Scarlet this is the worst. She more like a mosquito buzzing around your face, you just want to swat it away.

You know, I’ll just settle with Mai Trin as the leader of the Sky Pirate, the Molten Alliance wasn’t form by the anyone but those two race, and the “Scarlet Invasion” is replace with "[Insert Elder Dragon] Invasion. That is nice way of setting the story up without Scarlet existing at all.

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: chronometria.3708

chronometria.3708

My problem with her is that her resources seem completely without limit or justification.

Now, to top it all off, it seems likely she is responsible for the construction of countless pillar devices all over the world.

She can basically pull what she needs from thin air, in no time and deploy it instantly, without anyone noticing. It would not be out of her apparent remit to simply make lions arch city vanish into thin air.

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Atlas.9704

Atlas.9704

I don’t understand the Scarlet hate. She is no worse than treahern or kormir or shiro or rurik. People act like she is ruining some incredible story, newflash: it already sucked just as bad before. This ain’t lord of the ring folks.

Actually in my opinion Kormir and Rurik were better than Treahearne and Shiro, both of those in the latter are still better than Scarlet.

At least with my first two you have some sense of focus and goal in them. Kormir wanted to end Nightfall, which was partially her fault. Rurik wanted a better life for his people, and decides to become our Leeroy Jenkins.

Treahearne and Shiro both have some focus as well. One has a Wyld Hunt to cleanse Orr and the other wants to be human again.

With Scarlet we don’t get anything.
I’ve read and listened to interviews from Angel McCoy and Scott McGough
(currently listening to an older podcast again) and they swear “She has a plan, she has a goal”.

I’m sorry, but after a year of rambling with her your character’s plans and goal are about as well structured as an excited 4 year old rambling about his first day of school.

Even Lord of the Rings goes on and on and on, but Tolkien at least gave us some sense of direction with what the characters were doing and why.

So yeah this game series isn’t a masterpiece to some, but at least with the four people you listed earlier I can still identify what their goals are.
That at least makes a game worth playing, Scarlet isn’t worth playing to be honest.

However releases have been made and await their live dates, so let’s just either go through the motions and get this blasted “arc” over with or simply log off and spot check quality every so often.

As players that’s all we can really do.

Elona, Land of the Golden Sun….and undead…and poison. The travel brochure lied okay?!

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Getefix.9150

Getefix.9150

personally, i liked shiro, i found the factions storyline a bit tedious at times but overall i enjoyed it, same with nightfall (i should have been the 6th god… or at least the master, the master was a part of my necro team so he pulled his weight around)

prophecies was annoying with rurik, the prince so set on dying he’d run into hordes of charr with no back up… well eventually he got what he wanted…. twice

“Nothing is true, Everything is permitted”

Kiel Replacement Movement

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Atlas.9704

Atlas.9704

But at least you knew they had certain goals, which allows you to see how the story goes as you play it.

Last night I finished one of the podcasts (Wartower) and it dawned on me: These writers are trying to make Scarlet like one of the players. She’s so powerful, so beyond the other characters that if we stop her plans in one area she find it fun and doesn’t care.

She treats the world of Tyria like we the players would, as a program where you log in and get loot.

I’m not a PvP style person. I don’t want a villain who is “beyond” the world they inhabit.
I think this, and the voice given to such a type of villain, contributes to my initial dislike over the character.

I like the villain Caudecus because he’s a plotter and schemer who wants to take down the Queen. He has a in world goal and lives within the GW2 world. Same goes for Gaheron Baelfire, Faolain, Kudu, Hirvela the Lost, and constant other NPCs.
I even love the Dragons because they are Tyria in design both physically and in writing. They are a force of Nature specifically tuned to their environments.

Scarlet’s look works for a Sylvari, but her attitude is more akin to a bored player stuck in Tyria because she can’t log into another game. Her voice actress Tara Strong can do better voices. The high pitched giggly silly girl voice doesn’t really inspire me to take on this “personal nemesis”. It inspires me to tell her, “Go home the mall is closing.”

This is Tara-freaking-Strong ANet! Give us less Harley Quinn, more Queen from Royal Flush gang in Justice League. Raven from Teen Titans, Barbara Gordon from Batman, I’ll even take Ben 10 or her Kids Next Door character voices!

I must admit late night web surfing finally gave me this epiphany.
Its so clear to me now.

Elona, Land of the Golden Sun….and undead…and poison. The travel brochure lied okay?!

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Lanfairya.9724

Lanfairya.9724

I don’t understand the Scarlet hate. She is no worse than treahern or kormir or shiro or rurik. People act like she is ruining some incredible story, newflash: it already sucked just as bad before. This ain’t lord of the ring folks.

Just because GW1 story sucked doesn’t mean that this has to suck and why shouldn’t I expect improvement? I would think that they would have learned something from making their first game. That is a terrible excuse. I do think, that we should ask for Lord of the Rings. There are games out there with incredible story lines: Arcanum, Homeworld, Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger anyone? We should be asking for those stories, that level of writing. Even given a bad background from GW1 it was probably still salvageable. Then they just decided to throw in Scarlet a Saturday morning cartoon character who is responsible for EVERYTHING. At risk of given Angel anymore terrible ideas: In the next patch, we’ll learn she has a time machine and is actually responsible for the elder dragons. No! She is an Elder Dragon! She’s the legendary dragonborn that devours the others and becomes ULTRA, UBER, MEGA ELDER DRAGON! Seriously, I wouldn’t bat an eye if this happens because that’s how ridiculous the story is becoming.

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

I like scarlet. I think she’s fun. I like temporary content also. If I want great literature, I’ll read “Pride and Prejudice”. I don’t need it and I don’t want it in a game. I like how the latest chapter of the LS has given Kessex Hills a reason to exist. Now if only they could do something about Timberline Falls. I think there are too many people on this board pretending to be literary critics. I think they all need to go watch “Beyond the Valley of the Dolls”

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

I don’t understand the Scarlet hate. She is no worse than treahern or kormir or shiro or rurik. People act like she is ruining some incredible story, newflash: it already sucked just as bad before. This ain’t lord of the ring folks.

Just because GW1 story sucked doesn’t mean that this has to suck and why shouldn’t I expect improvement? I would think that they would have learned something from making their first game. That is a terrible excuse. I do think, that we should ask for Lord of the Rings. There are games out there with incredible story lines: Arcanum, Homeworld, Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger anyone? We should be asking for those stories, that level of writing. Even given a bad background from GW1 it was probably still salvageable. Then they just decided to throw in Scarlet a Saturday morning cartoon character who is responsible for EVERYTHING. At risk of given Angel anymore terrible ideas: In the next patch, we’ll learn she has a time machine and is actually responsible for the elder dragons. No! She is an Elder Dragon! She’s the legendary dragonborn that devours the others and becomes ULTRA, UBER, MEGA ELDER DRAGON! Seriously, I wouldn’t bat an eye if this happens because that’s how ridiculous the story is becoming.

Here’s a better question, why should you expect improvement. Seriously, to expect any writing better than what came before is just baseless. What evidence did you have that indicated the story writing had improved?

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Tremain.4623

Tremain.4623

I don’t understand the Scarlet hate. She is no worse than treahern or kormir or shiro or rurik. People act like she is ruining some incredible story, newflash: it already sucked just as bad before. This ain’t lord of the ring folks.

Just because GW1 story sucked doesn’t mean that this has to suck and why shouldn’t I expect improvement? I would think that they would have learned something from making their first game. That is a terrible excuse. I do think, that we should ask for Lord of the Rings. There are games out there with incredible story lines: Arcanum, Homeworld, Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger anyone? We should be asking for those stories, that level of writing. Even given a bad background from GW1 it was probably still salvageable. Then they just decided to throw in Scarlet a Saturday morning cartoon character who is responsible for EVERYTHING. At risk of given Angel anymore terrible ideas: In the next patch, we’ll learn she has a time machine and is actually responsible for the elder dragons. No! She is an Elder Dragon! She’s the legendary dragonborn that devours the others and becomes ULTRA, UBER, MEGA ELDER DRAGON! Seriously, I wouldn’t bat an eye if this happens because that’s how ridiculous the story is becoming.

So after 10 straight years of sucky stories you expect something good, that seems a bit unrealistic.

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Yojimaru.4980

Yojimaru.4980

I don’t understand the Scarlet hate. She is no worse than treahern or kormir or shiro or rurik. People act like she is ruining some incredible story, newflash: it already sucked just as bad before. This ain’t lord of the ring folks.

I’ve noted this as well. The Lich and Shiro weren’t well fleshed out villains (Shiro was exceptionally dire) and Rurik was generally despised in the same way Logan is. The Prophecies and Factions stories were beyond woeful – I’m playing through them again now on HM and the story and the missions are cringeworthy to play. Far more than most of the GW2 storylines. And then Nightfall came along and whilst an improved story, suddenly everything that came before was suddenly and conveniently “oh yeah that was all Abaddon”.

…Um… what? Concerning Rurik… did we even play the same game, are we even part of the same community? People didn’t like Prince Rurik because of the mechanics of the escort missions he was tied to, not because he was ‘terribly written.’ He’s disliked because his AI made him a Leroy Jenkins in areas where his death resulted in having to start a mission all over again. Logan Thackeray is disliked because he is perceived as a moody, whiny little boy utterly smitten by the first woman who ever seemed to give him any measure of attention. He abandoned his band of true friends in their hour of need to save a (very important) damsel in distress.

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: ThiBash.5634

ThiBash.5634

Theres obviously a ton of hate for scarlet right now and people are sick of her but perhaps this is what anet wanted? We all hate her REGARDLESS of the reasons why, this gives anet an emotional reaction out of us and they have the perfect platform for giving us some good LS content tied to her downfall. At this point we all want to erase her from existence so perhaps anet has a good agenda for her related to this, or possibly they wanted a completely different reaction out of us regarding her and it flopped horribly…. thoughts?

The reasons why are mostly due to poor story writing and bugged gameplay at this point…dunno about you nut to me, that’d seem like a VERY poor basis for a game.

If you can read this then it is proof that ArenaNet’s moderators just, kind and fair.

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

I don’t understand the Scarlet hate. She is no worse than treahern or kormir or shiro or rurik. People act like she is ruining some incredible story, newflash: it already sucked just as bad before. This ain’t lord of the ring folks.

Just because GW1 story sucked doesn’t mean that this has to suck and why shouldn’t I expect improvement? I would think that they would have learned something from making their first game. That is a terrible excuse. I do think, that we should ask for Lord of the Rings. There are games out there with incredible story lines: Arcanum, Homeworld, Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger anyone? We should be asking for those stories, that level of writing. Even given a bad background from GW1 it was probably still salvageable. Then they just decided to throw in Scarlet a Saturday morning cartoon character who is responsible for EVERYTHING. At risk of given Angel anymore terrible ideas: In the next patch, we’ll learn she has a time machine and is actually responsible for the elder dragons. No! She is an Elder Dragon! She’s the legendary dragonborn that devours the others and becomes ULTRA, UBER, MEGA ELDER DRAGON! Seriously, I wouldn’t bat an eye if this happens because that’s how ridiculous the story is becoming.

So after 10 straight years of sucky stories you expect something good, that seems a bit unrealistic.

No, after 10 straight years of sucky stories, we expect a story that sucks on the same level as the others, not one that sucks much, much more.

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: stormspirit.6598

stormspirit.6598

Everything that’s wrong with Scarlet can be seen by simply reading her backstory.

Her tale reads like the profile written really bad roleplayer who’s desperately trying to cover every base and explain away why their Mary Sue has all those cool Godmod abilities.

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Jaric.5679

Jaric.5679

For those who do not know, here is a link to Mary Sue on TvTropes. I am adding an excerpt which explains why most people hate her:

‘In other words, the term “Mary Sue” is generally slapped on a character who is important in the story, possesses unusual physical traits, and has an irrelevantly over-skilled or over-idealized nature.’

Yep, that’s a Sue.

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Jornophelanthas.1475

Jornophelanthas.1475

I do not dislike Scarlet, and I believe she is not really a “Mary Sue”, but rather a subversion of one.

She has exaggerated skills, intelligence, powers, etc. but at the same time, this will avail her nothing, because she is barking mad. Her insanity truly impairs every ability she has, and this is illustrated by all the bridges she burns behind her (both in the short story and in the game).

The point about Scarlet being a prodigy in everything she has ever tried, and having graduated with just about all known races is not meant to emphasize her “coolness” or “power level”. I sincerely believe that it is meant to present her as “wasted potential” or a “promise forever unfulfilled”. Because she threw away all her exceptional abilities, in favor of madness.

Scarlet is a tragic figure, because everything she has accomplished is pointless, even though she claims every defeat as a victory. (“Never mind that you destroyed everything here. I already learned what I wanted to learn.”) Everything is expendable to her and casually thrown away, and I would not be surprised if she ends up casually throwing herself away for her irrelevant ultimate goal.


Note that if Scarlet had actually not been written as mad, and had accepted her role as brilliant sylvari engineer (and not a villain), she would have been a classic Mary Sue (just like Queen Jennah).
Right now, she is a tragic recurring villain with no redeeming qualities. The only thing where Scarlet fails as a character is that we do not love to hate her enough, because we were never given enough information to empathize with her before her grand unveiling at Queen’s Jubilee.

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: cainejw.7142

cainejw.7142

If a character has no redeeming value, they cannot be a tragic figure by definition. Classic tragedy involves characters who have a redeeming value (love, loyalty, pride, etc) that ensures their downfall (Antigone’s loyalty leading to inability to relent, Oedipus’s intelligence leading to him actually fulfilling to prophecy, Jocasta’s steadfastness leading to her actually try in failure to avoid the prophecy).

Scarlet’s only potential tragic quality would be her intelligence or curiosity leading to her marching to her demise with each plan. However, each plan violates simplicity of binaries seen in tragedies, the plot does not emphasize order, she’s not clear-cut, she does not elicit emotional response. She’s just…a bad tragic character. So then she should attempt to be comedic, but the problem is that the story they tell is serious. She’s not comedic by any stretch.

And the reason Shiro, the Lich/Vizier, and Varesh work is that they all have these tragic flaws. Shiro’s loyalty in the emperor leads to blindness and self doubt which then leads to his murderous actions, his death, resurrection and loyalty to himself, and eventually his destruction due to hubris/flaw.

The Lich was intelligent and knowledgeable leading to, again, his downfall as he read the scroll, destroyed his people, and then sought to avoid the Flameseeker prophecies…which he merely ended up confirming.

Varesh is the same. Her anger and arrogance led to her downfall as she sought Nightfall and eventually her own destruction. Varesh had her name behind her. She was known. She was feared and loved by virtue of being an Ossa. That brought good and bad for her.

While all three of the stories have the underlying prophecy concept, Scarlet doesn’t. She’s just smart, cool, and totally CRAAAAZY. They’ve made her needlessly complex and comedic while trying to tell a tragic story of a woman who hates predestination yet keeps running to losing. That’s not tragic. That’s just lazy writing. She’s everything to everyone, but that makes her lack any compelling nature.

Scarlet is not tragic. She’s just boring, and it’s time for her to go away. I know I have no interest in her story, and she’s actively the reason why I’m not logging on. When the story is compelling, I’ll log on.

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: midnight tea.3681

midnight tea.3681

For those who do not know, here is a link to Mary Sue on TvTropes. I am adding an excerpt which explains why most people hate her:

‘In other words, the term “Mary Sue” is generally slapped on a character who is important in the story, possesses unusual physical traits, and has an irrelevantly over-skilled or over-idealized nature.’

Yep, that’s a Sue.

And overwhelmingly a sexist double-standard.

http://adventuresofcomicbookgirl.tumblr.com/post/13913540194/mary-sue-what-are-you-or-why-the-concept-of-sue-is

EDIT: I want to say that I’m not defending Scarlet, nor do I think she’s particularly well written. Just that Mary Sue as a thought-stopping cliche buzzword can often be sexist, so I avoid using the term anymore.

(edited by midnight tea.3681)

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Kain Francois.4328

Kain Francois.4328

Verash was a terrible villain though, in contrast with the Vizier and Shiro. But at least her actions made sense, unlike Scarlet! (You didn’t see her pulling resources out of thin air.)

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Jaric.5679

Jaric.5679

For those who do not know, here is a link to Mary Sue on TvTropes. I am adding an excerpt which explains why most people hate her:

‘In other words, the term “Mary Sue” is generally slapped on a character who is important in the story, possesses unusual physical traits, and has an irrelevantly over-skilled or over-idealized nature.’

Yep, that’s a Sue.

And overwhelmingly a sexist double-standard.

http://adventuresofcomicbookgirl.tumblr.com/post/13913540194/mary-sue-what-are-you-or-why-the-concept-of-sue-is

EDIT: I want to say that I’m not defending Scarlet, nor do I think she’s particularly well written. Just that Mary Sue as a thought-stopping cliche buzzword can often be sexist, so I avoid using the term anymore.

I’m well aware that writers also do this with male characters, and I’ll apply the term to them as well quite happily. ‘Mary Sue’ is only as sexist as you make it.

Scarlet hate

in Living World

Posted by: Jornophelanthas.1475

Jornophelanthas.1475

If a character has no redeeming value, they cannot be a tragic figure by definition. Classic tragedy involves characters who have a redeeming value (love, loyalty, pride, etc) that ensures their downfall (Antigone’s loyalty leading to inability to relent, Oedipus’s intelligence leading to him actually fulfilling to prophecy, Jocasta’s steadfastness leading to her actually try in failure to avoid the prophecy).

Scarlet’s only potential tragic quality would be her intelligence or curiosity leading to her marching to her demise with each plan. However, each plan violates simplicity of binaries seen in tragedies, the plot does not emphasize order, she’s not clear-cut, she does not elicit emotional response. She’s just…a bad tragic character. So then she should attempt to be comedic, but the problem is that the story they tell is serious. She’s not comedic by any stretch.

And the reason Shiro, the Lich/Vizier, and Varesh work is that they all have these tragic flaws. Shiro’s loyalty in the emperor leads to blindness and self doubt which then leads to his murderous actions, his death, resurrection and loyalty to himself, and eventually his destruction due to hubris/flaw.

The Lich was intelligent and knowledgeable leading to, again, his downfall as he read the scroll, destroyed his people, and then sought to avoid the Flameseeker prophecies…which he merely ended up confirming.

Varesh is the same. Her anger and arrogance led to her downfall as she sought Nightfall and eventually her own destruction. Varesh had her name behind her. She was known. She was feared and loved by virtue of being an Ossa. That brought good and bad for her.

While all three of the stories have the underlying prophecy concept, Scarlet doesn’t. She’s just smart, cool, and totally CRAAAAZY. They’ve made her needlessly complex and comedic while trying to tell a tragic story of a woman who hates predestination yet keeps running to losing. That’s not tragic. That’s just lazy writing. She’s everything to everyone, but that makes her lack any compelling nature.

Scarlet is not tragic. She’s just boring, and it’s time for her to go away. I know I have no interest in her story, and she’s actively the reason why I’m not logging on. When the story is compelling, I’ll log on.

You are right, I used an incorrect formulation. Scarlet does have the redeeming quality of her brilliance and charisma (in uniting sworn enemies), but this is overshadowed by her obsession with walking her own path, as well as her general insanity.

What I meant to say was that she is an irredeemable villain, because she is so hard to understand, and therefore nearly impossible to empathize with. And if you can’t empathize with the villain, you won’t love hating the villain, and you will not be invested in the story.

The main mistake made with the introduction of Scarlet was that the game did not offer us the means to understand her. All we got from in-game text was her resume (“Birth name: Ceara, studied at College X, College Y and College Z, interned with Inquest, foreign exchange with Hoelbrak and Iron Legion, etc.”). The short story offered only a little bit more, and I think only a minority of the players actually reads those.
The writers tried to pull us in with “She’s a mystery. Don’t you want to know?” But without giving us a proper reason to care. We need to know either what she is trying to achieve, or why she is trying to achieve it. One must be given, so that we care about the story, and the other can remain a mystery, so that we will be intrigued and become invested in the story. As it stands, they gave us neither.

Having said that, I still don’t mind Scarlet. She is a fun, crazy villain-of-the-week. I can imagine people growing bored with her, but that is in part because she is also the only villain in the villain-of-the-week rotation.
(Seriously, would all the Harley Quinn fans still like Harley Quinn if she were the only villain Batman ever faced? “I wonder who is behind it this time? Oh, it’s Harley Quinn again. What a surprise.”)