Guild Wars 2

hey! did a search on primordus on the forums, but i couldnt find anything on this dragon. I belive on my research that scarlet is corrupted by primordus. The first elder dragon to arrise in Tyria. Primordus dwells deep into the earth (scarlets vision on abyss, her probes and the big drill). Primordus loves fire and earth minions (flamelegion and dredge). The painting in her lair looks like primordus to me. This is the first big live event and Primordus was the first dragon in Tyria (Primordus -> First). The leylines is how the Asura powered their gate network with magic bleeding from Primodus. Did i got it spot on? did i miss something.

It could go any way really. There are plenty of hints to Primordus, but there are also plenty of hints to Mordremoth. Most people think it’s Mordremoth, which would be disappointing if it were to be true (since so many people guessed it right away).

Thinking it would be Primordus, seems very improbable and…forced.
What are the points pointing towards Primordus? The RED vine? Just because Primordus is red…. really?
The ancient cave network under LA where destroyers were buried (and that should mean that NO destroyers are around) during EOTN? I highly doubt it.
Besides OP’s points, which I do not see as “points”, I can’t see any other proof towards the Primordus theory.
Just because Primordus was the first to arise, it doesn’t actually mean anything.

“Primordus dwells deep in the earth”: well, I don’t actually see Mordremoth flying around too, so he must be somewhere hidden, maybe underground, too. P.S: The three-headed jungle wurm dwells underground, too. But if it had to be a minion of any dragon, then we know whose minion it would be.

Primordus loves Fire and Earth minion, I’ll give you that. Scarlet formed such an alliance in the first place, as you said….but does Toxic Alliance ring any bell for you?

The painting in Scarlet’s Lair may look like Primordus for you, but truth is, we know more or less how Primordus looks…and that looks like no Primordus for me. But then, we might both be wrong on the subject.

About your last point, “The leylines is how the Asura powered their gate network with magic bleeding from Primodus.” you’re contradicting yourself. It was never stated that ley lines were actually how Asura powered their network. On the other hand, we know that the Central Transfer Chamber was built around Primordus because he irradiated so much magic (but not ley lines).

I hold no grudge against you Camarell, but I can’t see how it could be Primordus.
Last, and probably the most important thing: Primordus, generally, DOES NOT CORRUPT. It’s one of the few facts we know about him. He just prefers to bash everything in the face with his Destroyers minion…but does not corrupt. It wouldn’t make much sense lore-wise for Primordus to corrupt, since all he actually does is destroying. (have you ever heard of a minion – a corrupted person – of Primordus?)

arlowix.5039:

I hold no grudge against you Camarell, but I can’t see how it could be Primordus.
Last, and probably the most important thing: Primordus, generally, DOES NOT CORRUPT. It’s one of the few facts we know about him. He just prefers to bash everything in the face with his Destroyers minion…but does not corrupt. It wouldn’t make much sense lore-wise for Primordus to corrupt, since all he actually does is destroying. (have you ever heard of a minion – a corrupted person – of Primordus?)

He hasn’t corrupted, yet. But we know that he can. He just doesn’t usually do it. Also, the eye that Scarlet draws has some what of a similarity with the close up of the eye of Primordus at the end of Eye of the North (granted, we don’t know what an eye of Mordremoth looks like, so this is very indirect evidence).

However, it is undeniable that the painting in Scarlet’s lair shares no similarity with Primordus, nor what we’ve seen of his champions or minions. It does however share an uncanny resemblance with the concept art of the Jungle Dragon, plus the painting seems to show plant-like tendrils.

And I agree, the appearance of the Great Jungle Wurms could be a clue that Mordremoth is also underground. Maybe he’s like a spore, or a root. Slowly spreading his corruption, sneaking through the crevices of Tyria.

Right now the evidence could lean either way.

The mining and drilling suggest Primordius. The whispers from the forest and the nightmares suggest the jungle dragon. Take your pick.

Well, what’s interesting is that the Jungle Wurm in Caledon Forest, and the Jungle Wurms in Barberous Coast might also be minions of Mordremoth. Those two are pretty far apart, with Lion’s Arch right in the middle. Apart from the recent Tower of Nightmares, we haven’t seen that much possible Modremoth influence in other zones near Lion’s Arch.

This leads me to believe that IF it is indeed Mordremoth, he could be a lot closer than we think he is. A lot of people have been talking about how he might be hiding underneath the Pale Tree. But considering the limited clues that we’ve got, that doesn’t seem a very likely location. He’s more likely somewhere in between the two known Wurm locations, or really close to Lion’s Arch (Or simply still hiding in the inaccessible area of the jungle).

I kind of imagine Mordremoth as a spore or root, slithering underground, and pulling the strings from down below. It’s also possible that we’re simply dealing with a champion of Mordremoth.

Lots of speculation across these forums has been around Primordus as the dragon behind this – I’ve read a few really good theories on him, but it didn’t feel like an obvious lead in for him through the story so far, compared to the Jungle Dragon. Why would Primordus be the dragon who made contact with her over the other dragons when she entered that machine.

Not that I mind, any dragon is good as far as I’m concerned

I Thank u for the good and constructive/ educational respond. I must admit i dont have much knowledge on the lore in GW. I have one more question though why i think it may not be forest dragon (can be lacking in lore again) but we know primordius use minions as a weapon of choice (like scarlet) and if scarlet have seen this dragon, it would explain the dredge flamelegion as first minion choice (dragons choice). Then she tries new twisted minons of her own. I admit the nightmare/krait does speak for jungel dragon and so does the painting in her lair with the vines around the pale tree. But that could be fig.speaking that the pale tree is getting the roots choked by fire and smoke. jungel wurm is just a side effect imo of scarlets drilling and probeing, and not something that was intendent (might have missed some in livingstory saying different).

Camarell.5648:

I have one more question though why i think it may not be forest dragon (can be lacking in lore again) but we know primordius use minions as a weapon of choice (like scarlet) and if scarlet have seen this dragon, it would explain the dredge flamelegion as first minion choice (dragons choice).

What we learn from Scarlet’s Lair shows us that she picked the various alliances for their technology. The Watchwork Knights are really the only ones that she selected to be her army. But the Molten Alliance was purely for digging technology and fire magic. The poster in her lair suggests that she had been planning all the various race-pairings for a long time, as part of a much larger plan.

Camarell.5648:

I admit the nightmare/krait does speak for jungle dragon

The Tower of Nightmares does. But the nightmare court/krait alliance seemed to have more to do with acquiring a potent poison.

Camarell.5648:

so does the painting in her lair with the vines around the pale tree.

This was just Scarlet drawing the vision from her dream, which might be related to Mordremoth.

Camarell.5648:

But that could be fig.speaking that the pale tree is getting the roots choked by fire and smoke.

Or the Pale Tree choked by an invasive weed. Or it could be that Scarlet imagined herself as a vine entangling the Pale Tree.

Camarell.5648:

jungle wurm is just a side effect imo of scarlets drilling and probeing, and not something that was intendent (might have missed some in livingstory saying different).

I agree that the Wurms were probably brought to the surface by the drilling unintentionally. However, there is a possibility that they are linked to Mordremoth.

you guys do know that sylvari can not be corrupted by an elder dragon?

“The Pale Reavers are an elite scouting squad of sylvari within the Pact. They are comprised of only sylvari due to the race’s immunity to becoming Elder Dragon minions; the squad was made to exploit this. The unit was formed by Trahearne.”
source: gw2wiki and my own knowledge from the personal story

magere henk.7891:

you guys do know that sylvari can not be corrupted by an elder dragon?

“The Pale Reavers are an elite scouting squad of sylvari within the Pact. They are comprised of only sylvari due to the race’s immunity to becoming Elder Dragon minions; the squad was made to exploit this. The unit was formed by Trahearne.”
source: gw2wiki and my own knowledge from the personal story

They can’t be corrupted by the Elder Dragons that we KNOW about and even then thats a theory at best in imo.

Not many Sylvari over in Ascalon or near the Brand so not much chance of them becoming corrupted and as far as i can tell the brand creatures we fight all came from Kralkatorriks flight and the future ones who get corrupted have been exposed for a long time by either being stationed there (Charr) or live close to it (Ogres etc)

Same with the Shiverpeaks since you have to willingly embrace Jormag or go pretty far North to be affected by him. Notice how we only see Norn and don’t see Charr Icebrood or Humans or Asura because they don’t go North and don’t accept Jormag like the Sons of Svanir do.

Primordus doesn’t really corrupt people he just destroys them (hence “Destroyers” as minions) .

Zhaitan can only bring back the dead and as far as we know Sylvari don’t “die” in the traditional sense so he’s the only one we can be certain they are immune to. For all we know they aren’t “alive” in the traditional sense either despite the whole plant thing.

That leaves The Leviathan as I like to call the DSD who apparently is like Primordus and just makes minions or tentacles out of water or something not sure about that one plus nobody goes into the deep water so nobody knows if it corrupts living things or even can.

Mordremoth is the most likely candidate for Sylvari corruption since it presumably is very plantlike and its power probably focuses on Nature. For all we know the Nightmare Court is the Sylvari equivalent of the Sons of Svanir who have embraced it and the Nightmare husks might very well be the Icebrood equivalent and Nightmare Courtiers turn into them eventually.

I’m still betting my money on Lazarus the Dire whispering into her ear.

Yeah yeah, or rather just optimistically hoping for it.

Scarlet is not corrupted, but manipulated by Mordremoth, he’s using her to access the ley lines from Lion’s Arch which are the most important in Tyria in order to awake much sooner than expected, Scarlet does not know that she’s the puppet of a dragon, but actually saw him in her vision after she saw the Eternal Alchemy, the painting in her lair in my opinion represents Mordremoth covered with blood. I think he promised power or something like that to Scarlet if she does what he wants, but she will die when he will reach his goal because he will no longer need her. I think that the Elder Dragons were scared after Zhaitan’s death, because they knew that they were going to be slayed, but not only that, Zhaitan’s fall was provoked by Asura technology (Megalaser and cannons in the airships) but also Sylvaris since Trahearne was leading the assault, and since Mordremoth lives in Maguma, he’s capable of destroying Asuras and Sylvaris homelands.

magere henk.7891:

you guys do know that sylvari can not be corrupted by an elder dragon?

“The Pale Reavers are an elite scouting squad of sylvari within the Pact. They are comprised of only sylvari due to the race’s immunity to becoming Elder Dragon minions; the squad was made to exploit this. The unit was formed by Trahearne.”
source: gw2wiki and my own knowledge from the personal story

That was true during the personal story, but we are moving past that now. In the latest LS we learned that there is something in the dream that protects slyvari from a foreign influence. When scarlet went into that machine it allowed that part of her mind to be broken and that influence took control. It is quite possible scarlet is either capable of being corrupted or already has been.

Also we are only 2 updates away from the finale, I don’t think it is unreasonable to have guessed which dragon it is at this point. Just 3 updates ago almost 100% of people were convinced it was primordius, and only a few of us were saying it was the jungle dragon. Now that we have much more to go on it seems much more likely the few of us were correct.

I think either dragon will be a good choice personally, but I think the jungle dragon makes more sense.

I think it is obvious that Sylvari are the creation of Mordremoth and his intended champions (like Primordius’ destroyers); however, they were altered to be shielded from his influence.

That being said, I think it is equally obvious that Scarlet is increasingly and, perhaps, at this point entirely, under the influence of what she saw in the Eternal Alchemy device – which I think is Mordremoth.

So, if you take these things as true – why would Mordremoth be interested in leylines and drilling into the Earth? It seems to me that Mordremoth is directing Scarlet to somehow manipulate Primordius into doing his dirty work. Let’s face it – although it would be very interesting story-wise for Mordremoth to assume control of the Sylvari as his servants, it’s impossible from a gameplay perspective. That leaves Mordremoth finally reaching one of his champions (Scarlet) to serve him and he seems to have plans to unleash Primordius or at least cause enough chaos with his surfacing for him to achieve his true goals.

In short, I think both theories are on the right track – I think Mordremoth is trying to agitate Primordius.

I believe Mordremoth is manipulating Scarlett. There was this Silvari NPC that was from a Pale Tree deeper in the jungle that wasn´t part of the dream along with the Voiceless. There is also the jungle dragon nightmare in the Sylvari intro.

^ Omega got to it before me, but I think it’s more than that: Mordremoth is trying to kill Primordus.

When he awoke Primy cleared huge tracks of land in the Depths of Tyria…and then presumably set camp on a juicy leyline and started snacking. That leyline happens to be under Lion’s Arch. Drill comes down and lets in the sea, flooding the Depths and forcing Primy and the destroyers to the surface.

The surface, where Scarlet is waiting with an army and a giant battle robot with a hyper-potent toxin and last-ditch kamikaze blast. Mordremoth wants to take Primordus out of the picture. It’s not going to work, of course. It’s just going to make him mad. If you thought Zhaitan made a mess of the place…

I’m getting a new sigil slot on my staff soon. I know what I’m putting in there.

Sylvari can’t be corrupted by Elder Dragons, true, but so are minions of the Elder Dragons. There are no Risen Sons of Svanir or Crystal Destroyer Crabs.

Remember that Glint was cured by the Forgotten and was no longer a minion of Kralkotorrik. Perhaps Ventari’s influence “cured” the Sylvari of the Pale Tree from being evil minions of Mordremoth, the rest of them could very well be evil creatures that seek destruction like the other dragon minions.

However, maybe it’s not even an Elder Dragon we are dealing here, but the mother of the Sylvari race, the one who created (gave birth to?) the seed from which the Pale Tree emerged from. There are hints/speculation that is Mordremoth behind the seeds but nothing is certain, but I believe that the mystery of those Seeds is about to be revealed.

I also think that Scarlet is trying to get to a dragon, not to raise him, but to bury him (if I may mangle my Shakespeare). She formed the molten alliance to create and she formed the Aetherblades, watch work knights and toxic alliance to destroy with ground air and chemical weapons. All her attacks have been field tests, which is why she hasn’t been too concerned if she’s lost. It could be argued that she’s been testing out the defences of the pact, but this makes less sense as the pact will also have been learning about her. This is why I think her real target is a dragon.

The questions are who is she doing it for, and which dragon does she want to destroy?

Theory 1: She wants to destroy Mordremoth at the behest of Primordus. In this theory she has been haunted by Mordremoth because he is linked to the pale tree. When she stepped outside the alchemy a voice said to her “I know how to help you get rid of that annoying presence in you life”. I have an inkling that the dragon under LA is Primordus though, and if that’s true next update she raises Mr.P and the next update they attack Mr.M, which seems a little rushed. Maybe it is Mordremoth under LA, but I don’t think so.

Theory 2: She is attacking Primordius at the behest of ?? Similar deal to theory one, except for some reason unexplained Scarlet has been haunted by “dat eye”, belonging to Primordus. So that was her Wild Hunt, to destroy Primordus, and she was gifted with the genius and drive to carry it out. Unfortunately, that genius was unstable and she saw her hunt not as a quest but a burden. She went looking where she ought not have looked, and made a pact which was the one deal where Scarlet was the one being used. She has now located Primordus and will attempt to destroy him.

Personally I think theory 1 plays better to the idea of her rejecting the path of the dream of descending into nightmare, and the story could play out like theory 2 if the dragon beneath LA is Mordremoth. If this is the case she could be acting at the behest of either Primordus or else some other malevolent supernatural figure (possibly with a link to Abaddon that we would have found out in the Abaddon Fractal).

From my point of view there are too many unknowns to be sure. A lot of my speculation is tied to the idea that the pale tree is a pre-emptively subverted champion of Mordremoth, and there are plenty of good arguments for that not being the case.

I don’t want to disappoint you. But the future LS has been datamined and because I don’t want to spoil it all I will say is that is not primordus

We’re not here to discuss datamined spoilers. We’re here to discuss what’s in the game right now, and to understand the clues that have been provided.

What will happen ? huummm …

I think scarlet will die and mordremoth will be awake.

of course i didn’t read any datamining, that’s pure guessing

Oh God, do you think Vecna has something to do with this?

I’ve said it on here before and i’ll say it again. If a new Elder Dragon was coming we would know , the marketing dept. would be all over it and trying to push box sales. A new Elder Dragon would NOT be a secret

bobbles.5940:

I’ve said it on here before and i’ll say it again. If a new Elder Dragon was coming we would know , the marketing dept. would be all over it and trying to push box sales. A new Elder Dragon would NOT be a secret

Actually, I think this Living Story ends with the announcement of a new dragon, and that’s when marketing goes crazy.

Traveller.7496:

I’m still betting my money on Lazarus the Dire whispering into her ear.

Yeah yeah, or rather just optimistically hoping for it.

Well, he did vow vengeance against countless generations.
- How I hope ANet takes unfinished business and lore from GW1 and put it to good use… as long as the storytelling is good.