Silverwastes vs Dry Top - Rewards done better

Silverwastes vs Dry Top - Rewards done better

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Posted by: Bubi.7942

Bubi.7942

Hello!

First off let me say I really like the new area (Silverwastes – from now on SW) the events are engaging and it actually does feel like a war/invasion is starting. I like it, and I also liked Dry Top (from now on DT).

In both areas, you get map specific rewards for doing events (geodudes and bandi crests) which you can use to buy items with and both of these rewards increase as your map is doing better. I think that is great, and a really well tought out idea – more coordination, more rewards. However I feel like SW has far less replayability or excitement in the long run and I would like to adress that. To pointing these out, I think comparing DT and SW side by side would be the best method (I think DT has very nicely designed rewards).
Note: these issues may be adressed in later patches I am wrinting this on 2014. 11. 17.

Issues:
Issue #1: Lack of items to buy with bandit crests
What is there to buy? You can buy the insignia recipes if you care for the stat (and it’s not really a good stat combo), you buy the collection thing once, you buy the extractors for the achievment, and that’s it. After that it’s just keys, sandy bags or crafting mats. While that doesn’t sound like an issue, it’s rather boring. There is no incentive to come bask to the zone, I can get all these things at different places in Tyria (and faster). What the merchant needs is some map specific items that you can ONLY get from bandit crests, and a lot of them, something to work towards to.

In Dry Top there is a large variety of rewards, has it’s own craftable items, has it’s own weapon set, tons of recipes. All that for a large amount of geodudes (but still attainable) so you keep coming back for more.

Issue #2: Keys give you keys
Less noticable since chest farm nerf (thank you for that) but still an issue. Why put in bandit crests into lost bandit chests? It makes no sense. You should not get the item you buys keys with from the chest you opened with the very same key. Award people with keys from events (aka bandit crests) and have different items instead of the crests (like a green or chance for better). The whole fun from opening a locked chest is just sucked out from this because you always get another key inside. It should be limited or harder to accesss. It’s like a matroshka: http://www.russiansouvenir.hu/images/uploads/DSCF2393.jpg

Note: that this is an issue that comes from the first one, that there is nothing unique to buy from the merchants, so you just gonna get keys with the crests you get from chests.

In Dry Top you also get geodudes back from chests, but: 1. the chests are of limited availability, 2. you get far less from them than the cost of the keys, 3. you can spend geodudes on other stuff

Issue #3: Mordrem organ extractor – what’s the point?
So you get the extractor, get the collection achievment and then…? The issue is the same thing as described in issue #2 with chests and keys – basicly for bandit crests you get more bandit crests – to what end? Why would you need that? After I was done with the Collection achievment I didn’t bother to get any more extractors. Why? Cause for me personally a few extra (and mostly useless) bandit crests is not worth the hassle of speaking to the merchant, remembering to use the item (and it taking up 1 inventory slot) and after that running to the organ exchange guy.

Issue #4: Nothing special in the chests
From every chest you get the same old boring rewards. 1 champion bag, some dragonite/empyrial (like most of us haven’t deleted enough already), some bandit crests (detailed above), ambrite and sand. Recipes and twister if you are ‘lucky’. Nothing unique, nothing you, stuff you can get from anywhere (except ambrite, that’s only DT). Opening a chest is not fon, there is no excitement, it’s just “meh, pick up the loot”. RNG is often dissed on the forums, but in some cases, it’s a good thing. In DT the
Sand mask thingy (the 2 piece headgear for light, medium and heavy) was a great thing to find in chests, also I found the fossilized insects also cool (altough there could have been an option to buy those for say 1000 geodudes).

Continued in next post…

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Posted by: Bubi.7942

Bubi.7942

Issue #5: Legendaries – Why bother after 1 kill?
After you kill the bosses, and get the titles, why would you ever bother to kill them again? They drop 1 champ bag like any other champion, but take ages to kill. Yeah it contributes to the meta (I think) and you got nothing better to do anyway but still, it feels unrewarding.

In Dry Top there are the rare creatures which are kind of similar to Legendaries in SW. They have increased event rewards, and have a (too high imo) chance to drop a Mini Monkey King or a Monkey King Tonic. Why not do something similar with these?

Sidenote: I think handing out the coolest sounding titles in the game so far for easy to beat bosses was a bad idea

Issue #6: Paying copper for Sandy Bags and Crafting materials
First of all, I get it that you get more value from these than the sheer amount of copper invested. I get that. The issue I have with this is because of the copper price it doesn’t really feel like a reward getting these, not something you worked for or earned, just feels like a discount. In my oppinion removing the copper price (and of course increasing the crest price accordingly) would make these items feel like more like a reward and not a bargain. Getting these right now and getting a large claw out of it is like “meh, I got 1 silver profit, hurray…”, when it could be like “oh cool free mats!”.

I think that about covers the issues I personally have with it, but I think I speak for a good amount of people when I mentioning these. Feel free to disagree.

Ps.: I find the rewards for completing the Meta Event (Breach) in Silverwastes on spot.

(edited by Bubi.7942)

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Posted by: Bubi.7942

Bubi.7942

I hope you took time to read the above 2 posts or at leaast skimmed trough before dissing them.

For the issues raised in the above posts, there are several solutions, let me post some of mine:

Solution for issue #1:
Add more variety. Cooking recipes (like in DT), some SW specific skins, exchnage for coin bags, exchanage for lodestones, new rune set, shovels, something.. Anything that gets you to keep coming back for more.

Solution for issue #2:
Remove the bandit crests completly from the chests or increase key price. Slightly increase rewards, like: add 1 green (or chance for better) to chests instead.

Solution for issue #3:
Add special organs on top of the collectibles. You have a low chance (5-10%) to get these when extracting. Throw all special organs (4 kind) into the mystic forge to get a mini Mordrem Terragriff.
Or.
Add special organs. You can feed special organs to Mawdrey II to get 1 fixed rare (or better)
Or.
Add special organs. You can use special organs when you have food on (eat it). Your current food will last 2 hours (like at metabolic primer).
Or.
Something else.

Solution for issue #4:
Add special stuff to chest, make it exciting to open tham, not a chore. Have a chance at SW exclusives, like Sinister exotic accessories, or a new glove out of 2-3-4 pieces (like the sand mask thing). Give us something to look for (also make it tradable so if you already have it, it will still be cool to find it).

Solution for issue #5:
Add a mini tied to the legenderies (like in DT).
Or.
Add increased rewards for slaying one (moar loot).
Or.
Somehting. Make it an event that is awaited in the long run as well, not just for the 1x titles.

Solution for issue #6:
Remove copper price, increase Bandit crest price to make stuff feel more of a reward. Of course not for all items, just for Sandy bags and Material bags, others are fine imo.

(edited by Bubi.7942)

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Posted by: Stooperdale.3560

Stooperdale.3560

If these are the worst issues you can find then just forget them and give the designers some congratulations. GW2 suffered a series of seriously broken rewards and currencies since launch and all your points are minor by comparison. Remember that Silverwastes could be expanded in future patches and the whole might seem better balanced.

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Posted by: Bubi.7942

Bubi.7942

No, these are not the biggest issues with the game, these are the current issues (at least according to me) with the current Living story reward system. That is why I named this thread as it is and posted it where it is.

I agree there are more severe things in-game (on which I go in detail in other threads) but since this LS is currently taking place, I think it’s a worthy mention.

I am in good hopes that these things get sorted out in the future, hance this thread was created for suggested better directions rewards wise.

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Posted by: Dawntree.7246

Dawntree.7246

+1. Hopefully starting tomorrow we’ll get something better to do with crests. The good point is that map is still fun, doing it from time to time to get some

+1 especially to themed weapon set.

Emanuel Dawntree – Nord Guardian of [TasH] – 9×80
Whiteside Ridge

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Posted by: One Prarie Outpost.4860

One Prarie Outpost.4860

Issue #4: Nothing special in the chests
From every chest you get the same old boring rewards. 1 champion bag, some dragonite/empyrial (like most of us haven’t deleted enough already)

I can never have enough Empy frags or Dragonite…
You know, if you don’t like playing the zone for the rewards, you can always go to another zone.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

On Issue 1: Chances are, tomorrow and the next two releases will solve this problem. Remember when Dry Top first came out, and we only had the first three tiers to buy from? Not much option. Then the weapon recipes and then the Mawdrey crafting recipes came.

I would be surprised if Silverwastes doesn’t result similarly. So I save up most of my crests.

And take note: we already see new weapon skins in Silverwastes (hint: look at the allied NPCs). We also know of new armor set (Carapace), which is a non-glowy version of Luminscent. Both may end up being added to the vendors tomorrow.

On Issue 2: I don’t see this as an issue. It gives you a return of what you put in. Think of it like investments. It would only be an issue if it gave you more crests than the key costs. Which while I may be wrong, I don’t think occurs.

On Issue 3: The point of this is the collection achievement(s later on?). After that, the point ends, similar to “what’s the point of running dungeons after you unlock all the skins in the wardrobe?” – you did the point, so the point is completed and ended.

On Issue 4: Same as point 1. When Dry Top first came out, there were no fossilized insects. We may get an upgrade to the drops from chests in E6, E7, and/or E8.

On Issue 5: Again, I point to the first point. When Dry Top came out, there was no Monkey King Tonic/Mini. Patience, young padawan.

Though if you want a point: the knowledge that you just helped other players accomplish the achievement. Sometimes it feels good helping others. Unless you’re a heartless kitten, of course.

On Issue 6: I’m not seeing this as an issue.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: nekretaal.6485

nekretaal.6485

I prefer Silverwastes to Dry top in terms of rewards.

(1) Getting the Luminescent armor requires all three armors, One from the story and then 2 more from either 1000 badges or replaying the story.

That’s quite a grind. So you’ve got a big sink for your badges. Doubtless the same system will be in place for the rest of the armor, so you will need a ton of badges.

I’m also fairly certain more badges stuff is coming: Ascended stuff with sinister stats is yet to come.

(2) The chest rewards are the same, the difference is that the SW chests are always up and the Dry top chests are more expensive. I’ll take always up cheaper chests, thank you.

(3) I suspect that the Mordrem extractor will be a RNG nightmare for finishing up collections as more armor pieces are added. I hope you got your stuff already..

(4) Ok, OP doesn’t like champ bags. I however, like them compared to the alternative: having to constantly go back to town and sell stuff. I also appreciate the ascended drops.

(5) Remember how small Dry top was when it was released? Well just wait for the rest of the zone. The area with the big flower seen in the personal story has jet to be released for example.

(6) Converting badges to materials is profitable. So, what’s the complaint?

(2)

#24 leaderboard rank North America.

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Posted by: Lethalvriend.1723

Lethalvriend.1723

Some things I preferred in this episode: The (in my opinion) significant rewards were less grindy and attained from the story (shoulders and the ascended jewels). The tonic is a fine reward for those who want it, but Dry Top initially didn’t have much to aim for either. I am pretty sure that the patch coming tomorrow adds a large area to the Silverwastes as many have probably already figured out some stuff regarding it from youtube or other sources. With an additional area I’m sure we will also get additional items to buy. I think that buying bags with copper, even if it’s little is indeed something a bit odd, but if you have really grinded the place to death that that’s literally all you can get anymore then I think it’s a fair deal. As for the champions and such, they are there purely for the extra challenge and I don’t see anything wrong with it to be honest, legendaries are meant to be a bit tougher to kill. They could ofcourse give them a rare chest as a reward if you kill them the first time of the day such as other world bosses but they are alot weaker. The only thing going for them in that regard is the fact that they are rare themselves.

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Posted by: Bubi.7942

Bubi.7942

@One Prarie:
I enjoy the zone, but I think that because its stale rewards at the moment, it gets really old, really fast. After you are done with the achievments, for me, there is no reason to return.

@Konig:
Issues1-4-5: Yes, I am hoping for improvements on many of the things I listed in tomorrow’s patch or maybe after. Also have 700+ crests on me, just in case.
Issue2: The chestfarm nerf has made it much better, still, if you just search for chests and tag 1-2 mobs on the way, you are gonna end up with way more crests than the key costs.
Issue3: The comparison with dungeons would be ok, but you do this once and you are done. There is also some potential in it, like using it in ways I have described in the solutions part.
Issue6: It’s just a matter of psychologican impact tbh.. For me paying fully in crests instead of any curreny would be better (even if it’s the same price in “reality”)

@nekretaal:
1: Well you also get the boxes from events (1 dropped for me so far) and I did story with 2 chars. So that’s the grind gone. I think most people do it on multiple chars to avoid the gold cost – just guessing.

As for later patches, yes I am also hoping they will add something to work towards to.

2: The chest rewards are not the same. There is nothing SW exclusive in them. Well except the dust mite tonic (or the other one, devourer, dunno). DT had it’s own headgear, the fossilized amber, twister in the jar (yes, I know these have it too, that’s even worse). And the price for the key is basicly 0. Yes, if you just open chest and manage not to tag a mob once in a while you’ll eventually run out. But that’s hardmode.

3: Not sure I got you right: do you think more mordrem will be added to extract? If yes, I would like that. Would still be stale after done however. Why not spice it up?

4: It is true, it’s rare that I go “woopie” when I get a champ bag. Again, hopefully they will add stuff into the chest.

5: Yes, I remember. I am expecting Marionette 2.0 after breach.

6: Detailed in original post.

@Lethalvriend:
Yes, I am hoping that my complaint will all be invalid tomorrow.
About legendaries: It’s not really about hardness, it’s about worrying that if SW would stay this way, there wouldn’t be people to kill them.

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Posted by: Chewablesleeptablet.3185

Chewablesleeptablet.3185

the big problem is that neither of these zones give good enough rewards to get people away from the FGS champ train.

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Posted by: Zaxares.5419

Zaxares.5419

I’m certain that Ascended Sinister gear will be introduced in a subsequent LS chapter. When that happens, we can expect it to cost more Bandit Crests, so that will be another upcoming sink.

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Posted by: Zaklex.6308

Zaklex.6308

Seems to me you’re missing something somewhere, there is also the possibility of getting more Carapace armor boxes from the Chests(super, super rare, besides being a super, super rare drop from mobs, and you do get greens from them…sometimes, at least I do. I also buy Ob Shards…even if I have no use for them, if nothing else I can fill up the 750 material slot that way…and use a few on occasion when I make the odd brick now and then(I’m not interested in Ascended items…don’t do Fractals and never will, didn’t like them that much before they even went in the game).

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Posted by: Swish.2463

Swish.2463

Admittedly in very tired of new currencies always showing up when we have so many already.. specially when they all so strictly specialized..

Aside from that the loot in Sw is a bit better and more consistent. Mostly the rares and greens and blues from the event rewards. The chests are just a side thing for me as I have shut luck with rng and champion bags..

Drytop is so tied up on geodes with such huge geode demands on the vendors with little to no drops from events or monsters.. short timers means you need a larger amount of players to get the best results and it’s been consistently shown that gw2 cannot hold those numbers in one map for too terribly long.

Drytop is less sustainable than sw right now and it will probably stay that way.

~Elyssion~
“Gw2, It’s still on the Table!” – Anet

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Posted by: Bubi.7942

Bubi.7942

the big problem is that neither of these zones give good enough rewards to get people away from the FGS champ train.

As much of a sarcastic comment this is, it is true, and pictures my problem perfectly. I could run the Frostgorge Champtrain at get the same reward type (champ bags) as in the new area – given a little time (novelty running out) there will be no incentive to return to SW.

What could make you return? Uniqueness.

But I’ll keep quiet until patch hits. Hoping for the best.

@Swish:
Dry Top rewards serious coordination more. I didn’t really want to go in to numbers, but even in gold, Dry Top is much better (if organized). Currently a successfull tier 6 run in 1 hour nets you ~ 20-25 g profit.

But that is not the real point, I don’t mind lower value rewards. My gripe is being with the rewards being the same basicly as anywhere else in game.

(edited by Bubi.7942)

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Posted by: That Guy.5704

That Guy.5704

I dont think we can say your first point (merchant variety for badges) until the area is fully released. There is at the very least 1 more episode to complete this map (that in the completely unlikely event that the rest of the map is released today) and 3 more episodes to this season that we know of.

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Posted by: Bubi.7942

Bubi.7942

Sigh.

Finally more champ bags and dragonite. Haven’t opened big chest yet in the middle of the pac-man labyrinth, but I’m guessing a champ bag, 2 blues a green?

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Posted by: Chalky.8540

Chalky.8540

Sigh.

Finally more champ bags and dragonite. Haven’t opened big chest yet in the middle of the pac-man labyrinth, but I’m guessing a champ bag, 2 blues a green?

Hey at least Arena Net are getting more data for their “how much dragonite can we give to players before they get really really annoyed by it” experiment.

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Posted by: Bubi.7942

Bubi.7942

Thank you!

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Posted by: Hvaran.6327

Hvaran.6327

i needed recipies from DT, spent 2h+ yesterday in DT, got 30 geodes….270 more to go…

Can i qq here?

Handarand – Handacooon – Handa Panda – Handa Genie

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Posted by: Bubi.7942

Bubi.7942

Do as you wish, my issues have been (partly) resolved by the patch, so we can /thread

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Posted by: nekretaal.6485

nekretaal.6485

The Dry top Geodes Grind is really obnoxious…

5 months in, and I’m only at 7 Ambrite Weapons. I can get 60ish Geodes from a T4 sandstorm, so it will take me many more months to complete the set. Most Dry Tops can’t get t4 anymore, and I doubt I’ll ever see a T5+ again. The events are all on timers and are all fail == nothing which is really annoying.

Then there is the RNG on the fossils…

It’s best to leave this thread up to prove that there really were people who were complaining that Bandit Crests/Carapace Armor wasn’t grindy

Anybody who’d been doing the awful Geode Grind and saw that Carapace was almost the same AP could see that we weren’t going to have it good for long.

But even then, bandit crests acquisition even at 1k/piece is way less grindy than geodes. Plus you can get shortcuts by doing living story or farming bandit chests. Plus you can extract from bosses and turn in the parts for big bandit crest rewards. There’s also a Pvp track that doubtless will be repeatable when the living story finishes.

It’s more fun, and accomplish able in different ways. The only thing that’s annoying is the need to complete all of the living story achievements, and that’s only annoying because there are no replay motes/skip dialogue motes.

Tl;DR. OP was wrong, told you so.

#24 leaderboard rank North America.

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Posted by: Bubi.7942

Bubi.7942

Altough this is way off topic, I’ll awnser this.

Ok, how can I be wrong if I hadn’t even stated anything? I don’t even…

Anyway. Not sure even where to begin. First of all, there are a lot of topics discussing Dry top, best to consult those for advice on how to do it. But let’s begin:

You do know that htere is also a PvP reward track for Dry Top as well right? With a fossil at the end and lots of geodudes on the way?

Also, not wanting to insult, but getting 60 geodes (and not getting above t4 at all) is not the map’s fault, but solely yours. Use the LFG tool, know the events, you know, actually know what you are doing. DT rewards effort you put in.

“But Bubi, no one organizes DT!” – well organize it yourself then. We just had one yesterday, reached t6 like every single week, got my 300 geodudes, exchanged it for 25 g profit (+champ bags etc.).

The formula really is very simple:
SW → requires little organization → smaller rewards
DT → requires more organiation → bigger rewards

I hope that helps.

Ps.:
It seems you fail to understand what the thread was about. I don’t give squat about bandit crests or how many you need, it was about the redundantness of “2 blues and a green” and nothing to look forward to. Which current patch has adressed with the minies, tonics etc. Kind of, but can’t really hope for better.