Guild Wars 2

It will be a year after release in three days.

So far, we got…..

• 3 recurring ‘festivals’ and some recurring content(Halloween, Wintersday, Dragon Bash, Queen’s Gauntlet, Super Adventure Fun Box, Bazaar of the Four Winds)
• A Bunch of Mini Dungeons that hasn’t been updated in almost a year (Fractals)
• Literally a new set of weapon skins every month that relies far too much on Internet Gambling in order to get.
• A Couple of Armor sets to go with it.
• Half a year’s worth of Content that no one will ever get to play again
• Some minor updates to WvW, PvP and the achievement system.
• A Wallet.
• 1 New Zone that is permanent, and 1 New Zone that was here for only a month.

There is two perspectives that I want to go on when I explain this…

The First is from a Buy to Play Perspective. No one has had to pay for this content, and for a year, that’s alot of stuff. While some games have given us way more content with their ‘Free’ Updates (EVE, LOTRO, Etc.), those require those dirty subscription fees. We have gotten alot of variety for amazingly little cash.

Okay, now that that’s over, lets go From my perspective,….While I don’t mind the free updates through the living story, and some I have enjoyed, I think Anet’s current business model is one of the more pathetic attempts at getting Player’s money, as far as MMO’s are concerned, and the amount of ‘Permanent’ content they have put out is also kind of pathetic. Here are my reasons why:

Those awesome Weapon and Armor skins that you can get for free,….Well, you can’t actually get them for free. Last I checked, its now over 4 gold per 100 gems for the gem store. Unless you are one of the Trading Post Barons with your 10,000 gold in storage, or you are one of the most prolific grinders in existence, you will have to pay real money at one point or another to get something from the gemstore, that or you will sacrifice yourself to a life in digital poverty.

Yeah, you can get 4 gold an hour doing Anet’s many grind heavy living story stuff, and you could have gotten up to 1,000 gold from the Queen’s gauntlet before it got nerfed, or, you’re just rich and bought all your gold, but that is less than 5% of the player population, even with the most conservative estimates. My Fortune right now is about 98 Gold. If I sell everything I own, I might hit about 200 Gold. At this point in the game, even that isn’t enough to cut it with some more expensive items. While I agree that players should work for their weapons, the way the current system is…, many players are running up an escalator that is moving in the wrong direction, and they can’t get off because other players and Anet are pushing them up.

Yeah, those cool weapon skins are 100% optional, but by making them optional, instead of giving players their choice of one as a reward for completing the Living Story, or giving them one for free from a chest then locking them out of it with the regular RNG, you are denying 95% of the players that content. Because of that I do not consider this permanent content because a vast majority of players will never have access to it. Why should you even bother to waste your time, if your cool weapon skins only reach 5% of the player base? In my opinion, that is time wasted.

That yearly Content you keep doing is really cool and all but I still consider it temporary content. You only see it for two weeks to a month once a year. Which, while you can always do it again next year if you miss it, its still not permanent content that you can come back to at any time.

If you are keeping score, Southsun Cove, Fractals, and a few improvements to the three sides of the game (WvW, PvP, PvE), are the only things with any real sense of permenancy, and some jumping puzzles too, can;t forget them.

My other complaint not relating to the Living Story or Content, is The Wallet. Its Cool, and it should have been in the game in some form from the Start.

I should say the same for a Group Finder,…. Especially the Group Finder, which still isn’t in the game. Let me take Other MMO’s as an example. When they were released, that was one of the biggest complaints about the game. A Group Finder is the bigest no-brainer in any game today. Its one of the complaints about Guild Wars 2 right now, (though that is a pretty long list….)

(I’m going to add to this later, just read the next post where I voice some complaints about the direction the story is going in)

What happened to the Elder Dragons? You know, those all powerful, evil forces of Nature that want to consume all the magic there is in the world? I can understand that Jormag might have somehow ‘known’ that Zhaitan was defeated, so are re-evaluating his plans or whatever. You also have Kralkatorrik who was nearly killed and is in hiding. You have Primordus who could care less about the surface world right now. Theres also the Sea and Jungle Dragons that haven’t yet done anything, well, other than the whole Krait, Quaggan, Karka getting sent closer to shore, but even that isn’t explained really.

We know the Pact is in Frost Gorge Sound, Fighting the Claws of Jormag every few hours, so, why can we start a Northward Push towards Jormag and work on taking out another Elder Dragon? If the Mountains are Impassible, why can we go west or East and go around the mountains?

There is also Cantha and Elona. While they don’t really matter so much because they aren’t being attacked on all fronts by all powerful elder dragons, they were still major areas in Guild Wars, and if I am keeping time properly, Factions was released exactly a year after Prophecies came out, adding an entire continent’s worth of content.

So far with Gw2, we have one area that somewhat delves into the story, explaining the Karka, and then,…..no wait,…..thats it!

Its not that I hate Scarlet or anything, its just that, having a maniacal Sylvari that saw god(eternal Alcemy,..Whatever), and I don;t mind the part where she has a problem with the Pale tree deciding their destiney’s for them. I know that the Pale Tree deciding the Sylvari’s destiney for them and such needs to be addressed, but creating a whole new character, and involving every other area in Tyria was probably not the best way to go about it. It just sounds like a Sylvari problem that the Sylvari need to come together as a race and solve themselves, and not bring in the rest of the world into it, for the sake of bringing in the rest of the world in.

That’s just all it seemed like to me. You have an awesome Sylvari character with an awesome backstory that reflects alot of things wrong with the Sylvari as a race, and then,….you just throw the rest of the world into it because you want some sort of Earth shaking event, that shouldn’t even involve the rest of the world? It doesn’t make any sense.

And What about the Zephyrites? This goes into the whole permanent content thing some more. We saw them for a month, their story was barely touched on, and now we have to wait a year or longer to see more of their story. Then, its only going to be enough to fill a page or two, and I have to wait yet another year?!?!?

I really hope that Anet isn’t thinking of making Guild Wars 2 a Decade long type of game. While EVE and WOW were sucessful in that regard, they didn’t slowly trickle thing to us for years at a time. They gaveit all to us at once. Having to wait 10 years to see an expansions worth of content is just plainly a NO GO for me.

Some Suggestions I want to make

• 1)WE NEED NEW AREAS TO EXPLORE, OR MORE PERMANENT STUFF ADDED TO EXISTING AREAS

• What if for example, Primordus opens a Fissure in the Harathi Hinterlands or something? The Dragon’s Minions are nw at war with the Centaur, but so are we. So its now a Triangle war going on. What if the Centaurs and Humans have to work together for a short time to get rid of Primordus’s Minions and close the Fissure? Then afterwards, Humans and Centaurs go back to fighting each other? You don’t have to rework any events in the area, you just need to rotate the events out every week. One week, its the normal events in the zone. The next week, all manner of stuff breaks loose when Destroyers invade, and for that week, Centaurs and Humans end up working together?

• What if, for another example, we have an instance involving the Zephyrites. They have a trade agreement with Lions Arch now, right? So what if the Aetherblades want to make a statement to them too, and decide to attack the Zephyrites supply runs. We can do a new Dungeon/Instance were we are in an Airship, escorting the Zephyrite ship to Lion’s Arch. Aetherblades attack. We man the cannone and fight the Aetherblades on the Deck, much like what we did during the final dungeon in the game. Then suddenly, a Giant Flying Clockwork Horror made of metal and dragon bones appears, and we have to destroy that now? Oh, and the instance is repeatable, forever, as in, not temporary.

• 2) IF YOU ARE GOING TO INSIST ON RNG, GIVE THE FIRST SKIN TO PLAYERS FOR FREE I’m talking about weapon skins comming out of things like Dragon Coffers and Supply Crates. Like I said before, making content for 1-5% of your player base is wrong and it needs to stop.

• on a related note, Your Black Lion Ticket thing was a horrible idea, and is one of the lamest attempts I have ever seen at trying to nickel and dime a playerbase. Some people have bought 50 dollars worth of keys, and never find a Black Lion Ticket. While its a great way to get revenue, its a slap in the face, a poke in the eyes, and a kick in the crotch of every player who plays your game, especially the 95% of players who will never get to hold one of those weapons in their digital hands. (actually, its more like 99.99% but whose really keeping count?)

• 3)FOR STORY, YOU NEED TO STOP TRICKLING US A PATHETICALLY SMALL AMOUNT OF STORY EVERY TWO WEEKS! Its 8 months into the living story, and we barely know anything about what is going on. You close story threads while opening ten more, and some you never come back to. We know that the Pale Tree and other Sylvari are involved in the whole big picture, but I fear that with your current release schedule, we’ll be seeing an end to this storyline in 2017 or something, and then in 2020, we’ll finally get to fight another Elder Dragon. If that is your plan, That is Unacceptable.

• 4)YOU NEED TO MAKE YOURSELVES AWARE OF OTHER MMORPG’s AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING! One exampe I am talking about is Wildstar. They are currently doing everything in the world right, including how to handle things like player housing, their version of guild halls, etc. There is also the next MMO that Blizzard is working on…You need to open your eyes and pay attention, or you are going to start to lose a whole lot of players in the next few years.

• 5)YOU NEED TO IMPROVE YOUR GUILD SYSTEM,…ALOT I am not talking about Guild rewards or Guild Missions. Those are great. The Limited Message of the Day,….Awful. The fact that Players can’t leave a personal message next to their name that other players can read,….also awful. The inability to see how long players have been offline or not representing,….Horrible. The Lack of Guild Halls,….The Worst.

• Other Suggestions would be to have a tool that lets leaders and officers see how much influence individual players are contributing, so they can see who is the most active players in their guilds.

• The reason why players should be allowed to leave a personal message is so, in the absence of a group finder, Players can say that they are available to do Dungeons or help players out with exploration or personal stories. Just having a Guild Channel in Chat is often times not enough because when someone asks “Hey, who wants to run a Dungeon?” That often gets lost in the 10,000,000 other messages poping up in the middle of a living story event, like the Invasion events.

There, I ended my “I’m not satisfied with Guild Wars 2” Rant, and I’m going to be staying away from the game for a few months so I’m not burned out from all the endless grinding story content. I’ll leave this here to see what other players think, while I go and kill Dragons in a game that actually lets me,…Skyrim.

To me the living story is what is happening when we are not fighting the dragons, and so I do not see why they do not use characters from the world already as opposed to making more and spending 9 months introducing them. When we got the Flame and Frost, why not use some of the Dredge we have seen before? Make it personal!

Scarlet for me is a threat but until we know her motives, then why should we care. If she is just nuts and wants to attack the world, then it would seem we can not do much but damage control so why worry about it. ( I read her short story btw, just did not go into enough for me. Such as why she started killing once see got out of the mists).

My personal wish list is dungeons!
I loved the Flame and Frost dungeon, it was a story dungeon but it was great! I would have loved to do a explorable path of it, or even see them give us new paths in COF and SE, using them as enemies! I mean they make things fun, with the new mechanics. Yet since then we have not see them and for me that is a great lose to the Living world.

Thanks for the work writing all this Chrispy!
I agree with all the points you make.
Please don’t let be down by Fan-boys, because they possible will swarm here.

It’s people like you capable of a rational and mature analysis that we need, in the forum as in game, if someday we wish seriously improve GW2 to a level of greatness at the least equal to GW1!

Best regards,

Draco

I think the main problem as far as technologies mentioned is the level of communication. We’ve been told guild upgrades and halls are coming in some fashion. We have no idea when and what the changes will be. Same thing for LFG tool. Basically, we get info on the system a couple weeks before it hits so we have very little idea what we’re going to get until it is just about to hit. And then you get people who seem to imply these technologies magically pop out of a box fully formed and they just needed to uncomment a line of code.

As far as living story, my only complaint is that there doesn’t seem to be any real continuity between arcs. Yeah, Scarlet is supposedly connected to all of them somehow but that is only because we’re repeatedly told there is (not shown). It feels a bit like the story is being written on the fly as they finish new tech and art. The story is then posted to the website instead of being available in game. That isn’t right. And putting it in game would make the amount of content delivered seem much larger (because you don’t have to go play hide and seek looking for it).

Oh, and if you don’t want to be guilty of the very thing some people claim “fanboys” are guilty of, probably best to drop words like “fanboys”. You want a constructive discussion of what is going on, right? So best not to belittle a side just because they don’t think the way you think.

Draconicus.7564:

Thanks for the work writing all this Chrispy!
I agree with all the points you make.
Please don’t let be down by Fan-boys, because they possible will swarm here.

It’s people like you capable of a rational and mature analysis that we need, in the forum as in game, if someday we wish seriously improve GW2 to a level of greatness at the least equal to GW1!

Best regards,

Draco

Thanks for the comment!

also, I just wanted to rant a little and maybe get a few good points and ideas across. No one is going to swarm here because I purposely gave this thread a title so that wouldn’t happen, that way the only people who reply were the ones who atleast read the first post. If I gave this thread a title like, say, “Living Story is a SHAM”, this place would be blown up with a war in about two seconds like it has been in the last two Living Story Forums (Queen’s Jubilee, Clockwork Chaos)

Love your suggestions! Especially the one about new event rotation because of Dragon interruptions. For me, THAT would make it a ‘living world’! Anet backed themselves into a corner with the personal story and repetitive dynamic events, both those things stop Tyria truly being a living world.

Your suggestions to guild updates are great too. Some of those things are long overdue!

I heartily agree with these points. Lets make guild wars the game it has the potential to be!

Your analysis has a few mistakes. Fistly we got way more permanent content then the content you mention. You didnt list 9 new jumping puzzles, about 50 new dynamic events, 1 new meta event, 3 new world events (whatever you might want to call the skritt theif, the Modus Sceleris group as well as the new invasions) 3 new pvp maps, 10 new mini games / activities, and 214 guild missions.

Secondly I dont get whats your complaint with the wallet? did I understand correctly you’re listing it as a complaint cause you wanted it at launch? would that be a fair thing to have in this list?

Also you listed that each new skin they released you could only get with money or by exchanging gold for gems. Thats not true, every event except for wintersday and the fused weapon set had those skins earn able in game as well. Through drops or this month for example even straight out buying them.

As for the living story, I disagree thakittens small, a lot has happened story wise. That being said I too would like to see more story going towards the dragons. That does require new zones to be developed and all that which takes a lot of time. Only less then 1/3 of the team is working on living story I am hoping new zones and dragon is something some of the other 2/3 of the team are working on and they’re just simply not done yet. We’ll see.

Housing and guild halls, I agree those would be really nice to have.

@Chrispy
I get what you’re saying about Scarlet, but to be honest, I felt the exact same way about how all the recent Living World content was entirely based around a human story arc, why should my Asura/Sylvari/Charr character care a single whit about Jennah’s Jubilee or anything operating within and around it?

I would also like to see some continuation of the original main story arc – the Elder Dragons and I don’t really understand why they couldn’t have introduced the Living World content to be following this arc and actually building up to fighting yet another Elder Dragon, this to me would have made a lot more sense than easily forgetable diversions such as we’ve seen already.

I also agree with you about the Karka event, they were touted as a huge threat and then forgotten about, jog on. Southsun was highly populated while the event was going on then became a dead wasteland because there was next to nothing to do there, most people went for Ori nodes until the rich vein disappeared. The events that are ongoing there are not very attractive for the effort put in to actually kill those things.

I don’t feel that the story is moving anywhere, the dragons have been forgotten about and everyone is having festivals. PvE is amounting to zerg farm fests with very little substance beyond making gold and achievement collecting.

Galen Grey.4709:

(I wrote numbers on ths quote in Bold print for reference.)
1.Your analysis has a few mistakes. Fistly we got way more permanent content then the content you mention. You didnt list 9 new jumping puzzles, about 50 new dynamic events, 1 new meta event, 3 new world events (whatever you might want to call the skritt theif, the Modus Sceleris group as well as the new invasions) 3 new pvp maps, 10 new mini games / activities, and 214 guild missions.

2.Secondly I dont get whats your complaint with the wallet? did I understand correctly you’re listing it as a complaint cause you wanted it at launch? would that be a fair thing to have in this list?

3.Also you listed that each new skin they released you could only get with money or by exchanging gold for gems. Thats not true, every event except for wintersday and the fused weapon set had those skins earn able in game as well. Through drops or this month for example even straight out buying them.

4.As for the living story, I disagree thakittens small, a lot has happened story wise.

1) oops. I am pretty sure that at the end of the first post I said:::

If you are keeping score, Southsun Cove, Fractals, and a few improvements to the three sides of the game (WvW, PvP, PvE), are the only things with any real sense of permenancy, and some jumping puzzles too, can;t forget them.

Well, I know it was only 5 words, but I mentioned the Jumping Puzzles, that you should also keep in mind that alot of the playerbase doesn’t want to go near those things, which even before Anet started adding more to the game, alot of players have expressed their hatred towards them, (Even though they are generally good additions to the game)

The 3 New PvP maps I would consider as improvements to the PvP side of the game, since there isn’t many ways to improve it other than adding a new map every few months and doing skill balances.(there was also the leaderboards, etc.) The Mini Games/ Activities…, many of them you can only do at certain times of the year, so how is that in any way permanent content? I already said that I do not consider that permanent because you don’t have access to it year round.

The 200 or so Guild Missions I take issue with the way you said it. There are 3 Guild Puzzles, 6 Guild Challenges, 7 Guild Rushes, and then if you want to count out each individual Guild Trek location and Bounty, then, it might be over 200. That being completely beside the point that those are also PvE Improvements, and its not really that much either, when you consider that Guild Treks are just “Go here”, and Guild Bounties are “Get a bunch of people and kill X”.

2) My complaint about the wallet was that at the begining when the game launched, your storage space was wasted on storing tokens, badges, etc. You start the game with one 30 slot bank tab, and you can upgrade them with 600 gems. if you take into account that Gem prices are 4 gold per 100 gems, it costs 24 Gold to buy another storage tab right now. Most players, don’t have 24 gold.

So, why should I waste 10 slots for tokens and such? There’s also all the boosters I got from the black lion chests, using keys I got from map completion. There is also the black lion chests I am storing until I find more keys. There are all the unique items I have aquired over the last year from living story. There is also 6 armor sets that I have crafted and bough, from just one of my characters that needs to go in there, of which each takes up 12 slots, plus several more slots for weapons. My bank was full with all tabs, before I ever considered all the tokens. That or waste storage on your character.

That part of the Wallet should have already been in the game in the as far as letting you deposit tokens in the form of collectibles so you weren’t wasting bank space.

3) I am also pretty sure that I mentioned the Crazy RNG in addition to the other things. During Dragon Bash, there were those awesome little Dragon Coffers that you could find, or buy from the trading post. I opened 6,000 myself and got 6 weapon Claim tickets. So that was 1 in 1000. It has been documented on these forums that some people have opened the same amount and got even less, or none at all.

If you just play the game, you would NEVER come across 6,000 dragon coffers in a month, just killing things and finding them, so your chances of getting a weapon are even less. I am pretty sure that I mentioned this already. Did you even read past the first post? I didn’t explain it in detail, but I did talk about this already. I mean, seriously…

Anet is going in the right direction by making them tradeable, but they should have let us do that from the start, instead of looking at 95% of the players in the eye and say “You can’t have this!”

4) I have to disagree. I believe that I explained this more than enough before, expecially with the Zephyr Sanctum and the Zephyrites, because we barely got to know anything about them, and we have to wait a year before what? We finally find out that they are really lying to us about something, but we have to wait another year to find out what we finally found out about them lying to us about something. I predict that we won’t really know for atleast two more years.

Static.9841:

@Chrispy
I get what you’re saying about Scarlet, but to be honest, I felt the exact same way about how all the recent Living World content was entirely based around a human story arc, why should my Asura/Sylvari/Charr character care a single whit about Jennah’s Jubilee or anything operating within and around it?

I would also like to see some continuation of the original main story arc – the Elder Dragons and I don’t really understand why they couldn’t have introduced the Living World content to be following this arc and actually building up to fighting yet another Elder Dragon, this to me would have made a lot more sense than easily forgetable diversions such as we’ve seen already.

I also agree with you about the Karka event, they were touted as a huge threat and then forgotten about, jog on. Southsun was highly populated while the event was going on then became a dead wasteland because there was next to nothing to do there, most people went for Ori nodes until the rich vein disappeared. The events that are ongoing there are not very attractive for the effort put in to actually kill those things.

I don’t feel that the story is moving anywhere, the dragons have been forgotten about and everyone is having festivals. PvE is amounting to zerg farm fests with very little substance beyond making gold and achievement collecting.

That my problem. We had a story arc based entirely around humans, which is fine. (We need to have race centric Stories every so often so that way we aren’t entirely focoused on Lion’s Arch all the time), and then when Scarlet was revealed and everything, and Anet posted a short story about her, They had the perfect opportunity to talk about some of the problems with the Pale Tree and the Sylvari’s messed up way of thinking. (I mean In-game, not outside of it)

We had a Charr/Norn Centric storyline, through Flame and Frost, and Lion’s Arch was covered pretty well for several months. So all that we are missing as far as a race centric storyline for the year, would be the Asura (Though they were talked about a tiny bit during this recent release, and there is almost always a major Asura character in every Living Story release), and the Sylvari since they were never considered when Watchwork Chaos was released.

Then there are the Elder Dragons, you know, those unstoppable forces of Nature. There’s other minor Races, and some Races that have big enough populations and military power to not be considered minor races really, just not playable (Like the Tengu and Kodan)

I’m just going to put it like this, We’ll be seeing Lions Arch, front and center, again in October and fpr atleast half of December. I really don’t want to see anymore stories that involve them until next year.

@Chrispy

1) Granted some might not like Jumping puzzles but does that mean they’re not new content that was added to the game? Your post is about and I quote “So far, we got…..” IE the content that was added to the game. Like them or not the new jumping puzzles are indeed new content we got. Some dont like PvP does that mean this game has no SPvP or WvW due to that?

Again, what some people consider the new maps is irrelevant. They are still new content being added to the game. Just cause some might have liked a wider range of maps it doesnt mean arenanet didnt have to work hard to create / test the new maps before releasing them.

when I said 10 mini games/ activities where added to the game as per your post I only listed the permanent ones. For transparance the once I am counting are:
Belcher’s bluff, Costume Brawl, Crab toss, Sanctum survival, Sanctum Sprint, Speedy Reader, Cleaning up the neighberhood, Diving, Marriner Plaque and moa racing. All added since release all can be played right now and even when the next releases comes even though a few of them are on a daily rotation. I have no listed the other 11 minigames and countless activities that were only playable during their respective event.

Every new content is an improvement so we shouldnt count any of it? Fractals added vertical progression to the game so why count them? New content is new content, its a tangable thing that can be counted factually, opinion shouldnt come into it. How would you feel if someone claimed 1500 new dynamic events were added since launch cause they feel because dynamic events change based on outcome that person decides they’re new each and every day? it would be bogus and so is deciding some new content doesnt count because you feel it should have been there at lauch. Unless it was promised and didnt make it at launch it is simple speaking new, nothing there to interpret. Guild missions were not promised at launch, Guild missions are new. Hence it is new content. As for why I counted the way I counted, its because we’re talking about new content added to the game. Those 200+ can be grouped into 5 sets sure but Arenanet could have just did 1 challenge, 1 puzzle, 1 trek, 1 bounty and 1 rush, that would still be 5 sets but much less content then 18 bounties, 3 puzzles, 7 rushes, 6 challenges and 180 treks. Further more from Arenanet point of view thats 18 bosses they had to design, build and test. Thats 6 challanges they had to create etc.. you might not be playing it all at once but its all different stuff you can get to do hence its fair to count it all imho.

2) So in your opinion improvements should be counted as something negative cause it means the game didnt launch perfect? Come on. You said it yourself, it takes 24g for a single bank tab and not everyone can afford that. So some might use real money which means that Arenanet by doing this change of their own free will, without be forced and without much noise about it at all are loosing money just for our conviniance. This is no different then other games btw, its normal for most MMOs that tokens use bag space. Look at mark of honor in WoW for example. And thats not mentioning collections which as far as I know no MMO does or ever did.
You think its fair to hold against Arenanet something they did to make your life better?

@Chrispy (2)

3) Why is buying coffers off TP a bad thing? You’re basically exchanging whatever you enjoy playing with the reward you like. ITs basically saving you from grinding content you might not enjoy without cutting you off a reward, since when is that a bad thing? Look at your own statement, if you bought each one of those 6000 coffers you’d spent less then 60g (each coffer was going 90 something copper) And you got 6 skins (congrats btw, only got 3 myself) compare what you’re saying now with what you said intially “its now over 4 gold per 100 gems for the gem store. Unless you are one of the Trading Post Barons with your 10,000 gold in storage, or you are one of the most prolific grinders in existence, you will have to pay real money at one point or another to get something from the gemstore, that or you will sacrifice yourself to a life in digital poverty.”

Now you’re saying you got 6 skins by just playing the game and before you said you had no chance unless you spent real money. There is a big disconnect there dont you think ? are you sure you’re being objective here?

4) we barely got to know anything about the zypherites? one single bot right across the peer to the ship explain quite a lot about them. It you talked to the different npcs you get to know basically everything and if that wasnt enough there is also this short story that fills in the rest:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/community-news/short-story-the-trek-of-the-zephyrites/

what else do you want to know?

Also your estimate doesnt make it factual SAB returned 5 months later no in 2 years. We dont know what plans anet have but what does it matter? lets assume you’re right and the zepheryites arent explored again before 2 more years.. why would that be a problem? we’ll still be getting other stories until then.

U named thread wrong. It should be “Our help for Arena” ;]
I logged in to say how much Chrispy done for me. I was thinking about writing stuff like this on the forum.
Umm, i see the hard work done by Arena but still.. where is the story? I would like to see 2-5 cut scenes every MAJOR story update (the one that story involved in /=SAB<3).
Expand Guild possibilities. Guild miniforum for example.
Why there is no friend chat?
I understand ur afraid of adding new maps, cause people will leave old ones. Marge servers then. Don’t be afraid of overflows (cause of too big servers).
Servers like Vabi are already void.
Give mystic forge in all major cities so LA is less crowded.

I’ve been playing gw2 a lot for 1 year. And after this time i expect to be well informed about making money and my chances should be bigger to get new skins and stuff then people who play for 3 months for example. I have this Mesmer, thief, warrior on 80 full exotic/ascended.

Just imagine 1 year player vs 3 months player. If i can’t get new skins, will he be able?
I’m playing this game everyday for about 6 hours and i can’t imagine how i cas possibly get those scraps (or even bl tickets) if not the farm which is boring after doing it for 2 months.

I’ve had 20 keyes which i got for 1 year map completion and stories. I got whole 1 scrap from 20 boxes! And i need 10 scrap for ticket and… 1-7 tickets for skin.
7tickx10scrapx20boxes=1400 keys if someone is unlucky as me and price of keys is not LOW in gems and gems are HIGH priced now due to inflation.
Inflation is cause on FREE MARKET which is free but influenced by developers by adding things such HUGE drops of everything.
I heard chance for scrap is 18% or so. But for me it is 5%.

I was convincing my friends that arena is doing good stuff and it’s not THAT BAD.
I understand that tickets should be someway hard, but reachable.

Due to invasion and champ orr farm rest of game is unrewarding totally. Get the things together and fix this, cause it’s broken.

@ Galen Grey,
You might want to check your list of minigame and make sure that some of those didn’t exist in the game in some form already…

And you are still missing the point, especially with the Dragon coffer part, so I don’t see the point in trying to explain to you any further, but I will. What you need to understand with the dragon cofferes, is someone spent 60+ gold on 6,000 coffers, and never once got a skin. I got 6 skins by buying everything from the trading post, which is a way to play the game, but even with those odds, alot of people didn’t get anything. And the chances of getting one were 1 in a thousand, so there was also almost no chance of you getting one just by playing the game and finding the things, since you would never find 1,000 coffers just by killing enemies(and not dropping more than your whole fortune on just outright buying them). 100% of the players that wanted a skin played the game in some form to get it, only 5% of the players got one. If you still fail to understand how that is unfair in any way, then there is no point in me trying to say anymore to you, because at this point, you are disagreeing just to disagree.

And what else do I want to know? Why are the Zerphyrites lying to everyone else in Tyria, and what are they lying about. That short story did not match up with what was in the game. So, come on dude. You know all, tell me whats up!

And one more thing. I might be eating my words by this time next year, because Anet has had to repeatedly state that they just wanted to spend this whole year getting their holiday/annual stuff out of the way and making quality of life improvements to the game, some of which should have been there from the start (whether you agree with that or not does not change my opinion, or the opinion of many other people)

Hopefully next year, Anet actually does something to the game that makes me care to play it again, because currently, I have seen nothing but Hyper Zerg Swarms, 1 in 1000 RNG, and Jumping Puzzles, all three of which, a large part of the playerbase, HATES. You can mention the minigames all you want, but the fact is, they are MINIgames, as in, not a large part of the MAINgame.

Edit ::: Oh yeah, the Gold inflation thing is also starting to become a big problem. There’s also the wild difference in Instance difficulty between content releases. I will explain why I think those are problems in a future post, but for now, I want to go keep killing dragons in a game that actually lets me……no, not Skyrim (this time)!

@Chrispy

They didnt. If you got some doubts on one of the minigames, let me know I will happily find out when it was added for you.

No I am sorry but you’re wrong. With a drop rate of 1 per 1000 the chances of getting nothing at 6000 coffers is very low. Its not impossible but its very rare at best. Just like some found a ticket by opening a single box, it happens but its rare. You cannot take a rare occurrence and threat it like its the norm. The norm is 1 ticket per 1000 coffers, its not impossible to earn 1000 coffers. As for getting 1000 coffers through killing mobs? yes it was entirely possible. Didnt keep an actual count but I think I farmed over 2000 coffers. They dropped fairly frequently in the range of 3 per holo emitter. At say a generous 1 min to clear an emitter and a minute to travel to the next emitter thats 3 coffers every 2 mins meaning to farm a 1000 it would take about 10 hours in a month period, why is that impossible?

In large scale events with lots of mob you could get way more then 3 coffers per 2 minutes as well. That being said whats the difference between farming the emitters or buying off TP? If instead of farming emitters I decide to go do dungeons for 10 hours during that month and use the resulting 20g to buy me 2000 coffers why is that an issue?

where did you get the 5% from? and even if it where true why is it unfair? I wanted a sclerite weapon for my necro too but I didnt enjoy farming karka and you couldnt buy those from TP so I didnt get any. Why is that unfair? I wasnt willing to put in the effort necessary so I didnt get it, its only fair, nothing unfair about it. At the end of the day everything requires a certain effort to acquire. You can create a named exotic weapon like say vision of the mist. If you’re not familiar with it, it requires 1 eldritch scroll, 100 mystic coins, 250 Orichalcum Greatsword Blade and 250 Glob of Ecto. Thats going to take far more then 10 hours of farming to make. Not everyone is willing to put in the effort required to get one (I am among that group, I love it for my mesmer but its beyond my meance right now) Is it unfair? No, its just an item of prestige. Why is a legendary a prestigious weapon? its mainly because it requires such a big effort to make that not everyone can have one. These skins work on the same concept but unlike legendaries or named exotics they use time boxing to create that prestige. You have an effort you need to do that is not as great as those other prestige items but that is time boxed.

Dont make the mistake of thinking everyone who disagrees with you disagrees for the sake of disagreeing. Some do but those people dont back their statements and explain them in detail because by definition they would have no real reason for disagreeing.

Unless I missed something the Zerphyrites arent lying. What did they lie about?

how did the story not match up with what was in game?

I dont know all, But I do follow the story, I am not infallable and dont claim to be not by far, but I need specifics, let me know whats bothering and if I know I’ll tell you and If I dont know I offer to research it for you.

You like to make sweeping statements without backing them up. If like you say the majority of people hate hyper zerg swarms they wouldnt exist because like a person who truely hates even small zerg swarms I avoid them like the plague and everyone who hates them can easily avoid them. Like take this event for example, its specifically designed to fail if people zerg by making sure that they will not have enough time to complete the whole thing because singular events scale so much that it takes too long to finish a single 1 + there is not enough time to do them all 1 by 1. Yet people still zerg even if it means failure.

1 in 1000 rng, fair enough. I’d personally rather have 1 in 1000 rng (provided the drop rate we got in that event) over excessive requirements that have me farm like visions of the mists for example but I accept that it doesnt work for you.

Jumping puzzles, how do you know most people hate them? takes a lot of effort to create jumping puzzles why would arenanet do it if they were not popular? Besides the clock tower had overwhelming positive reviews just like the stepping stones.

You might not like mini games which again fair enough but does that mean the majority of the game doesnt? SAB alone proves otherwise and thats not to mention for how long people have been asking for the hunger games mini game to return after the beta.

Inflation I agree is a problem. I am just hoping this infusion of gold is a temporary situation just as a form of celebration for the 1 year anniversary. Like you though I am a bit weary on that one just hoping the economist on stuff will not let this go out of hand.

1) RNG I played for alot more than 10 hours during Dragon Bash. Actually it was closer to 35 hours a week for 4 weeks on average, which is 140 hours. Not including the coffers I bought, I decided to keep count of the coffers I find as drops, mainly because of the previous Southsun event where I might get one supply crate an hour (with around 450% magic find too…), and across all the karka killing for that event, I came across maybe ten supply crates and no claim tickets. So, back to Dragon Bash, I ended it and tallied just over 300 total Dragon Coffers, across 140 hours. Your number of 3 coffers every 2 minutes is a total load. 35 hours a week is almost a full time job. I do not exactly see how working full time to get one measily weapon skin is fair to anyone, rich or poor. Yeah, I got 6, you got 3, many people got none, and are just now buying them from the trading post. I am still suggesting that the first one is free, a gimme, then if you want more….,grind, grind, grind away until the cows come home.

2) Zephyrites Remember everything that was in the game very clearly. Remember? Goood! Remember how in the game, you hear about how the Zerphyr Sanctum has always been there, for many, many years. Now read that short story again. Its dated 1320, 5 years before the year currently in Guild Wars 2. How would the Zephyr Sanctum always be there if it was built only 5 years ago? The scribe’s note says that the information in the journal might not reliable, but what parts of it aren’t reliable? So, what’s true between that, and what’s true that was told to us in the game?

3) Mega Zerg Hyperforce Puffy Time Go! If you spend any time reading the forums, there are alot of people that do those hyper zerg events. You can also read about all the people expressing their hatred towards them. People do still zerg, for the express purpose of farming champions, which makes the event fail, which ticks other players off, who are legit trying to complete the events in small groups. Many people who have posted in the forums hate zergs because they are ‘Faceroll auto attack" all day and night, and there is nothing challenging about the neverending swarming player events. There is no ’sweeping statement without backup’ about it dude. Some people like swarming to get the champions, but alot of other players HATE it.

4) Jumping Puzzles (and SAB) Once again, your insistence on citing the positive feedback without also citing the negative feedback is kind of confusing, as well as your use of the word ‘most’. I said a ‘Large part’. That is not the same as ‘most’. Large part could be that ususally there is a thread expressing distaste for a jumping puzzle (or SAB) for every thread that likes it. But I have not said most, except for when I said that "Most players don’t have 24 Gold’ Fix that pat of your statement then I will respond to it.

5) Mini-games,…err activities! – the Two that you mentioned in Ebonhawke are not minigames. Infact, they have been there since the game launched, achievements were just added for them later. the Sepratists Propaganda posters, you actually rip down as part of completing a heart in the area. Diving was also in the game at launch, unless you count the two dives that were added later, one of them into lava! So there’s 3 of your ‘minigames’ that already existed in the game at launch, keep trying!

Belchor’s Bluff is pretty much ripped from a minigame that already existed in the Order of Whisper’s storyline “Down the Hatch”.

The Mariner Plaques were added because we were at the release of Sea of Sorrows, plus Anet really needed to add ingame Lore (And I think its going in the right direction, but they need to add much, much more).

So there…., I guess. I made points to counter your point, I guess I’ll wait for you to make points to counter these points, so I can make points to counter those points that countered my earlier points. YEAH!!!

Edit : Fixed some words that were somehow falling under profanity filters. (theres another complaint I have. whoever concieved of that system must either think we’re all six, or we can all magically see curse words spelled out in between other words! jeeze, atleast replace the word with,…Windmill, or…..dinosaur, or……lilly every once in awhile. I hate kittens now, thanks to you!)

1) I have no idea where you got the 300 in 140 hrs from but it was no where close to the truth. Are you sure you didnt misscount cause even logic dictates that impossible. There are still 200k on sale to this day and back on the day they cost less then 1s each. Who would sell anything for less then 1s if it took 30 minutes to earn a single coffer like your stats say? Look at corrupted lodestones that drop like once every hour, they sell for 1g not 2s and there are just 1765 for sale right now even though they still drop to this day. While dragon coffers that havent dropped for months still sit at 200k. They were very common drops.

2) I think you’re mixing things. The short story details the story when the zepherites went back to find the slain glint in the hopes of salvaging some part of her legacy. Thats not when they formed. In the short story itself it says “We hid ourselves away for hundreds of years, helping her as we could and keeping her secrets.” As for the sanctum itself, in the short story itself it says "We will take her back with us and build a new sanctum " so based on the story there were other sanctums. But anyhow in game it never said the sanctum was always here, in fact it says quite the opposite. The bazaar of the 4 winds was stated to be a yearly occurance for a long long time but the sanctum itself was landing for the first time which is why this year it was such a big deal. Quote: “The Bazaar of the Four Winds is gathering — merchants are converging from all corners of Tyria to sell their wares. But this time it’s not just shady characters and risky trades; this year, the mystical, flying Zephyr Sanctum has landed” Which is also why a trade agreement with this guys is such a big deal because they’re not around enough

3) you said it yourself, the event is designed to fail with a zerg. So the fact people join into large zergs is either cause they like it, or cause they hate it but still do it for profit. Either way how is that the games fault? should the game act like big brother and make sure large parties dont form by say making it so no loot drops if there are more then 10 people playing together? The great thing about this game is it gives you freedom, even in the amount of players playing together but if players choose to abuse that I dont see how thats the games fault.

4) I have yet to see a single negative thread on sab to be honest. If you search “I love/like Super adventure box” you’ll find 1000s of hits, if you search “I hate/dislike Super adventure box” you will not find one. Its obvious its mostly loved.
As for JPs we got like 9 new since launch, we cannot say how many people like them or hate them, but Anet knows, why would they do 9 of them if they’re not that loved?

5) Seperates posters I checked and you’re right, my mistake. Speedy reader though is not associated with any heart so it is new. Googles we seem to be both partially right. i checked and they did indeed say that “they added new googles” in halloween which implies there were some at launch. Then again the fact they kept adding to it means that there was new content introduced since launch no?

why do you want to belittle what Arenanet do so much? I dont get it. sure Belchor’s bluff shares the basic premise to Down the hatch. Did they just copy and paste it and call it new? no not by far… They had to create new icons, new mechanics, new skills, new characters, new AI, new music, new dialog, new items and test it all. This wasnt a 5 minute job because they copied the idea, this was days if not weeks of work to get it done. Why shouldnt it be considered as new just cause it copies the same idea? The movie lord of the rings copies the same premise as the book its based on, does that mean the thousands of people working on the movie did nothing?

Ehh great you’re blaming me for hating kittens now ? couldnt you just you know not use profanity, its not like I am attacking you personally, being disrespectful or anything to diserve any profanity anyway.

Actually I am blaming Anet. They replace everything that even sounds like Profanity with the word kitten, so by reading the forums, I have come to associate kittens with bad things. If they spread the profanity filter around and add random ‘nice words’. then I will stop hating kittens! I mean seriously, I can’t use the word its infront of a word that end with the letter T, otherwise,…welll, you know!

Also:::http://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=The_Founding&action=history

Speedy reader is not new, you can see that there was a page for that stuff since atleast August of last year, and you can even click on the historic pages to see what was in there. You’r still wrong. Anet only added an achievement for it after the fact.

EDIT – ^^^ This, right here Anet, is what we need more of in the game for those of us who like exploring and collecting Lore!

As far a the Sanctum goes : http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyrite
and : http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyr_Sanctum

this person from an older thread, from about a month ago explains what is wrong with the story quite well:::

what annoys me is the inconsistencies in the writing throughout the whole thing.

• you got the priory, which didn’t even seem certain that the zephyrites existed, and they’re the most knowledgeable people on tyria.

• you got magnus, who not only knows the zephyrites are not a myth, but is aware of multiple (failed) attempts to commercialize with them because of their rare crystals

• you got the zephyrites acting as if seeing land is the most insane thing ever, and many claim to have never stepped on land before, only heard stories of it.

• you got other zephyrites claiming they used to live a normal life, but decided to join the zephyrites for one reason or another, and successfully did so. how did they even do that without the priory (or anyone) finding out about this huge ship recruiting people left and right? and how did people get on it without the others getting close to land?

• and finally, you got the just-released short story that provides evidence that the flying sanctum is no more than 6 years old.

• so yeah, the Zephyr Sanctum has always been there according to some sources, to a point that people in Tyria know about it, and that their landing to resupply is not a very rare occurence as this NPC tells us : http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Misty
• This tells me that someone in the game must have know at some point that they regularly build new Sanctums to replace older out of date ones, but you have everyone acting like its always been there in the game.
• so, your telling me that everything is perfectly normal, there is absolutely nothing wrong with any of this? keep trying please!

Oh, and the 300 in 140 hours was with no magic find, and I ended up averaging one every half hour. Sometimes I would get ten during the same time period, or I would get none. Compare that to the Queen’s Gauntlet tickets, I have played for roughly the same amount of time so far (minus about 20 hours), and I have come across roughly the same amount of entrance tickets (Well, maybe a little less). Sometimes I get 10 or more an hour, other times, I get none. So yes, its accurate, and you should keep in mind that using the Trading post to decide how much items should be worth is dangerous, otherwise all the recent Champion Exotics would be priced around the same. Using Cobalt and Arc as examples and guildwarstrade.com, you can clearly see that the supply is about the same, but there is a 12+ gold gap. A difference in 50 supply is not going to make the difference 12 gold. So, like I have said before, keep trying dude!

I agree it would be great to get more books with lore and stuff in the game. That they had to create an achievement for it leads me to think most people ignored it and had to be dragged to participate by a reward which means we’re probably out of luck with getting more of that

they’re a secret society protecting the secrets of a dragon. What kind of secret society would they be if the priory knew everything about them. They do know some stuff though: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/LOR-748_Field_Reporter not to mention like the short story says they were interested enough that they got their hands on that report / possibly infiltrated the sanctum to get it.

Well after glint’s death the secrecy was no longer necessary + they become nomadic, not just that but nomadic in the skies which means they had to trade for supplies. Its entirely reasonable that there were enough interactions in the past 5 years for people like magnus to be aware of them. Being the head of the lion guard and specifically in charge of protecting merchants it makes sense that he would hear stories of merchants wanting to make deals with the zepherites, why is that wrong story wise?

I think he is wrong about zepherites saying they never seen land… maybe I missed the particular npc so take this with a pinch of salt but the closest I came to that is one saying they dont land very often. Did you come across this yourself? If i just missed it, it can still be explained without it being a lie. In the short story it says we will build a new sanctum… the reason for that is never explained, one possiblity is an internal conflict between the zepherites. The ones that got the crystals might want to split and perhaps be more social which is why now they’re starting to appear and interact with the rest of the people while the original sanctum still live isolated somewhere in the sky. The transfer of people could have happened in air which is why some people wouldnt have set foot on land even if the new sanctum is 6 years old. We just dont know.

Same with people joining the zepherites, didnt come across any such npcs, did you? Again it could have happened recently now that the new sanctum is stopping in places to trade.

That depends on too many things to say for sure. for starters how often is not often enough? could it be once a month? once a year? once every 2 years? once every 5 years? they could all be described as not often enough.

We dont even know that they build new sanctums to replace old ones, it could be they simply split into two groups. Or there are so many of them that they need to add sanctums to make up for population growth. Or even they have right of passages that require a great task and when completed you get your own sanctum. Could be many things.

I am not telling you this is normal, I am telling we dont know enough and what we know can be explained.

Ohh come on try to be a bit objective once in a while. There are 268 arcs for sale and a demand of 382… there are 254 cobalts for sale and a demand for 291. what does that tell you? Demand is bigger then supply and its a super rare item… 254! across all of gw2 players. When its a rare desired item obviously you can name your own price no questions asked. Same thing happens in real life, a painting by a famous painter will fetch millions of dollars not because it takes 100s of years to create but rather because paintings by famous painters are rare. Paintings by ordinary painters on the other hand are prized based on effort. Same with TP… if you we look at say mithril ore.. its selling at 38c if we look at copper its selling at 37c Why? because it takes the same amount of time to gather them. On the other hand why does Orichalcum cost 5s a piece? because obviously it takes far longer to gather Orichalcum. Now why doesnt Orichalcum sell for 20s? simply because it would take longer to earn 20s then it would take to mine it directly. Its simple really, its a balance between supply and demand. Sellers want to sell as high as possible but buyers arent willing to pay an amount that would take longer to acquire then it would to acquire that item itself. So the fact coffers sold for less then 1s means buyers felt that they could get a coffer themselves quicker then it would to make 1s

In case of cobalt, again 250ish only… can you be sure you can get one in 12hrs? Cause I played way longer then that and didnt get a single one. Rare stuff work on different rules but dragon coffers where never rare. Supply during the event was
around 800k every day.

Objective how? I think you are the one being objective. You said this (organized for ease of reading)

• Arc ::
  Supply : 268,
  Demand : 382

• Cobalt ::
  Supply : 254
  Demand : 291

Total Supply difference : 14
Total Deman Difference : 91
More people want Arcs than people want Cobalt, and the demand outweighs the difference in supply. By the law of Supply and Demand, Arc should cost more. BUT Cobalt costs more because it looks cooler, and people think they should get a better deal for a better looking weapon. Think Apple and PC. Your reasoning does not make sense, and you yourself admitted that Rare items don’t work by the same rules, which was mostly my point.

Oh, and I guess that Iron and Platinum is harder to get than Copper and Mithril too then since they cost more.

Oh, and you said 800,000 coffers were the supply every day. Assuming that there were atleast 50,000 players that played Guild Wars 2 every day (I hope it was atleast that many), then each player would find only 16 coffers a day. 16 /7 = 2.285 × 30 days = 68.5 average… Oh wow! You are totally right dude. There is no possible way that I could have gotten only 300 coffers by killing things the whole time I played the game. Its actually LESS. Thanks, you proved my point x4.

On the Zephyrite issue…
1) How come the Priory doesn’t know anything about them, yet Magnus knew about them for what was implyed to be years? And since no one knows it if it was just for five years or if it was for longer, why do you insist that’s supposed to be only five years because of a short story that might not be entirely accurate?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Strangers_from_the_Sky
2) Why was there a Norn Zephyrite? Explain that, if they’re so secretive and are so rarely seen. How would a (random) Norn Know about their existence is the Priory didn’t know about them. Keep in mind thakittens the Priory’s job in the game world to gather knowledge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgFdfuuRkRg
(Wooden Potatoes video, skip to about 11:10-11:30. You will know that the Norn is a Zephyrite because the guy hovers his mouse over it and it says “Zephyrite”)
…So yes. You do come across NPC’s that joined the Zephyrites, and since its such a Big Deal that the Zephyr Sanctum is landing after so long, how did a Norn join them? And everything else in the story about them being so secretive, and no one knowing about them, This is despite the contradictory information saying that they do actually land to resupply.
3) There are several NPCs that if you wait around them long enough, they start saying random dialogue where they are making quite a big deal out of them seeing land, and one of them did talk about never setting foot on land until that point, which also contradicts several earlier points I made, as well as that short story. I couldn’t find a video that showed that specific dialogue (because no one is going to waste their time recording every piece of NPC chatter in the game), but I heard it several times during that month.

There are dozens of other questions I have, and there are many holes in the story that need to be addressed and answered. Not by you, preferably by Anet. And My only point is, whether people want to disagree over what is accurate information or not, is that I don’t want to wait several years and several repeating Zephyr Sanctum Living stories later to end up knowing all the information. Introducing us to the Zephyrites and then taking them away from us for a year (6 months even), is kind of lame, and I would have liked to explore their story a little more. That is a legitimate complaint! Why do I have to keep saying that to you?

268 / 254 for anywhere between 1m – 3m players makes it super rare. Thats not priced based on effort, its priced based on desire. arc costs less then cobalt cause you can get nicer bows then arc in less then 1 hour. Cobalt is priced at 12g cause you cannot get a nicer sword in less then 12 hrs. thats what it means. And yes we both agree that rare items work differently but dragon coffers where not rare items. While the event was on there was always about 800k of them on sale, thats more then there is copper ore for sale right now. is copper rare?

actually yes Iron and especially platinum are much harder to get then copper and mithril. copper you got 5 full maps + a lot of the stuff you salvage, mithril you got 5 full maps + most of the stuff you salvage

Iron and platinum on the other hand are in split across multiple maps which share different resource thus making them more scarce on a single map.

For example in Queensdale the only ore you find is copper so if there are (inventing a number here) 20 nodes of ore, thats 60 copper on the map.

In say Bloodtide coast there are 3 types of nodes, Iron, Platinum and gold. Thats means if there are 20 nodes and the distirbution is equal if you’re after Iron there is just 6 nodes for a total of 18 iron on the map. (distribution is not factual) hence yes it requires a greater effort to gather iron and plat then it is to gather copper and mithril. Thats also ignoring that most people play either in the starter zones or the higher level zones which makes copper and mithril more readily available as well.

ahem, the 800k was the number of items on sale that day. to that you have to add what coffers people open themselves. How many of those put on sale where bought and how many where not put on sale but sold directly to buy orders. I mean how many coffers did you sell yourself? none right? how many other people did like you and not sold a single coffer?

But anyhow lets forget logic. lets go visual. Watch this video:

22 coffers in 13 minutes, which means 100 coffers per hour more or less. Coincidentally (or not really) it matches the 1s per coffer since the value of an hour like already argued is 1g. But anyhow. there you have it its unequivocal now.

1) who says the priory knows nothing about them? Certainly not the priory!
how come this priory drone knew things like “he Zephyrites are governed by three Aspect masters—Wind, Sun, and Lightning—and a Master of Balance, who epitomizes all three elements.” during the politics event ergo before the sanctum came to the bazaar if they know nothing about them?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/LOR-748_Field_Reporter

2) Why not? the zepherytes arent some new creature from some far away dimention, they’re a group of people who used to protect gint’s secrets. Why cant a norn have been part of that group? Its not like they werent around at that time. So why not? Where does it say that only humans could join that “order”? Again ignoring the fact that saying the prior has no knowledge of them is wrong since as proven above.

3) I always do that, like you I love the lore and try to learn all I can, I hear conversation and talk to npcs all the time. Honestly i dont recall that one. Doesnt mean it wasnt there though no matter how attentive its always possible to miss something. So anyhow you heard it your self you’re saying right? and there isnt a chance it was one of the kids that said it? Cause I did some research, found this one and its not listed here either: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyrite_
There is one where a kid says he never seen a charr.. which i remember hearing quite a few times that was funny but there isnt one about never been on land before.

That personal preference. You’re entitled to it of course no one is saying other wise. I wasnt arguing with that, you simply stated the zapherites are lieing and I was arguing with that. That being said, doesnt mean its something wrong with the game. You hate that story unfolds over money but not everyone does. I personally like that story unfolds gradually. Its why I am liking LS as a content delivery over Expansion. With an expansion the story is done with in a couple of months max, and thats if you take it slowly leaving you with 8-10 months of playing content that isnt story driven. It also makes for a more realistic story imho. I mean why is it that things have to follow a certain narrative pattern. Why should every thing with some back story be central to the story the moment you meet with them the first time? Its not just in games, I love the same stuff in TV and books. Babylon 5, Peter F Hamilton which are my favorite Tv series and author respectively follow this formula too. They open multiple threads some of which dont become important until much later. I believe its important to let things grow.

I think the Iron and Platinum thing went over your head a little. If there are only 5 maps with copper and only 5 maps with mythril, that leaves alot more than maps still. I can think of atleast 9 maps that have some sort of copper ore, and 7 maps that supply mithril ore. Try that again, will ya?

Nice video, No! It really is!…, because every single player in Guild Wars 2 was running between Holographic minion spawn to Holographic minion spawn, and was getting 100 dragon coffers an hour. Is your brain still in your head? Have you not considered that some of us don’t give much care for magic find gear, and many of us would rather play the game instead of farming the same enemies repeatedly? Apparently not….. I found a little over 300 dragon coffers that entire month. By your logic, I should have found atleast 14,000, which really doesn’t seem possible. So my statement is still ore than equivical, unlike yours.

There’s still things wrong with the Zephyrites, and you’re still not answering everything. For example, there is a child that is making a big deal out of seeing a charr, but there is also an adult Zephyrite somewhere I heard making a big deal out of not knowing what a Sylvari was. How would they not know those races exist, but they know who the Norn are? more than half of the NPCs are acting like its the first time that whole thing has ever happened. Still makes no sense, and your insistence on saying everything in the world is good and well is just ignoring the issues with the story at this point.

Keyword was “full”. Copper and mythril as far as I know are the only two ores that have entire maps where all nodes (well -3 in case of mythril because of orichalcum) are of that type. Iron can be found on some 12 maps if not more but not 1 has iron and nothing else. That means you have to travel more and in between maps which means it will take longer.

Ohh right so when we cant argue anymore because of irrefutable proof we switch over to personal attacks, classy. Ignoring that, dont want to do it is not the same as impossible to do without spending money (which was your original argument if you forgot). The game did all it can do to help you out. Dont want to farm holograms fair enough, play whatever content you want and use that money to buy the coffers off people who enjoy farming the holograms. Where is the problem?

Seriously? you’re still saying your statement stating that getting more then 300 coffers in a month was impossible and my statement that you could get up to 1000 coffers in 10 hours of play is flawed even after seeing it happen in an unedited video? I am starting to think you’re not interested in the truth anymore just to trash the game.

You’re trying too hard to find faults now which really arent there. Why is it implausable that a child of 6 – 10 never saw a charr if there was no charr in the sanctum and if the sanctum only came to land a few times over the last 6 years?
1. they could have landed in areas where there were no charr
2. they could have landed in areas where there were charr but the child’s parents though s/he was too small to come ashore.
3. s/he could have seen one before but was too young to remember.

Many ways how you could explain that one really.

This is easily explainable as well. Its because the norn are 1000s of years old and the sylvari are just 25 years old and the zepherites are from canta / elona which have been cut off from the kryta since even before the first sylvari where born. Again its entirely plausable that a group of people who were isolationists to being with never heard news which in itself had to cross A sealed gate by order of the queen, The dragon and his minions, Palawa Joko and his minions.

It would be plausable if no one in Elona / Cantha knew of the Sylvari, it would be more surprising if the Zepherites knew of them then other way round.

Chrispy.5641:

There’s still things wrong with the Zephyrites, and you’re still not answering everything. For example, there is a child that is making a big deal out of seeing a charr, but there is also an adult Zephyrite somewhere I heard making a big deal out of not knowing what a Sylvari was.

I don’t know about the rest of your post but I remember the human child had never seen a charr which is hardly surprising, for one thing he’s a child so he hasn’t seen a lot of things and up until the last couple of years or so humans wouldn’t have been mixing with charr much at all outside Lions Arch and battlefields I suppose.

I’m also not surprised that the adult Zephyrite wasn’t too familiar with the Sylvari either, their entire race is 25 or so years old and they were kinda rare up until recently.

Come on Galen, think for two seconds here, remember you said that I couldn’t possibly be making an accurate statement when I said that I only got about 300 or so Dragon coffers. You kept trying to make points that ‘yes, you can get much more’, most of it directed at me. That Logic is not flawed, what is flawed, was you constantly trying to imply that everyone in the game is one of those farmers, and therefore, because everyone is, I too should have gotten way more dragon coffers than just 300 (across the whole month). For that, you do actually need to think to realize that there are different players, and not all of us are super farmers that do nothing but kill the same thing over and over again. Yes that’s atleast 25% of all MMO players, uncluding those in Guild Wars 2, no, that’s not me. Why is that hard for you to understand? I got 300 the whole time I was playing the game, and I also have a fortune right now of 130 Gold. That doesn’t mean that someone else doesn’t have 11,000 gold. The point is, I DON’T.

One last thing on the Zephyrites….
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scholar_Ela_Makkay

The Zephyr Sanctum! I’ve seen cursory mentions of it in scattered texts, and some scholars didn’t even think it was real. I can’t believe I’m actually standing on it!

Either they knew about it and knew it existed, or they didn’t, or in this case, some scholars don’t even think its real. You already tried establishing that the Zephyr Sanctum was around for only five years, and also tried to establish that there were other Zephyr Sanctums, BUT, like I keep trying to hammer, EVERYTHING, DOES, NOT, ADD, UP.

Next you’re going to tell me “Oh, well, the priory knew so little about it that no one could possibly come to a consensus whether it existed or not”….Wait, I thought the Priory knew that they ‘existed’. you can’t just slide in between it. Either the Priory knew they existed, or they didn’t. Either Renuu is right and there is more to the Zephyrites than they are letting on, and there something entirely not right, or everything is fine and dandy. Either Everything in the game at the same time is true, just like how every ending to Daggerfall was true and all happened at the same time, or something is not adding up. It can’t be both ways, and it can’t be in the middle unless there was somewhat of a breakdown in the direction the story was supposed to go in when Anet was working on it.

Oh, wait, let me guess. There is some radom explanation you have for why there were people who at the same time, both believed and didn’t believe in the Zephyr Sanctum’s existence, despite the fact that Magnus the Bloody Handed and the rest of Lion’s Arch knew about them for years and that Lion’s Arch has also been trying for years to get a trade agreement. That’s all in the game, and like I said, none of it adds up. How do Pirates know about the Zephyr Sanctum, yet Tyria’s smart people, Scholars, don;’t even agree on their existence?

Well? Your turn in this almost never ending debate over what is and isn’t in a video game! Its been seriously entertaining for the last few days, but seriously, stop dancing and explain why Pirates knew about them, but the Priory, one of the most powerful organization on Tyria, hardly knew anything.

I didnt say you didnt get 300 chests over 140hrs, its possible to get 0 chests over 140hrs if all you do is craft for 140hrs for example. I just disagreed with your overall statement when you said it was not possible to get 1000 coffers as drops in 10 hrs as well as your whole argument that it was impossible to get a single ticket without using gems and then later without buying some coffers from the trading post.

I never said everyone should farm coffers like crazy. Didnt even do that myself. I farmed a bit, but didnt farm the whole time either cause once it starts to get boring there is no point in continuing not when Arenanet had the forsight of allowing you to play everything you choose and still get a chance to get the skins (by using the gold you earn to buy more from TP) Thats not the point I am trying to make at all. Lets recap shall we. First you said “. Last I checked, its now over 4 gold per 100 gems for the gem store. Unless you are one of the Trading Post Barons with your 10,000 gold in storage, or you are one of the most prolific grinders in existence, you will have to pay real money at one point or another to get something from the gemstore, that or you will sacrifice yourself to a life in digital poverty.” To that I replied thakittens entirely possible to farm them. Then you said “So that was 1 in 1000. It has been documented on these forums that some people have opened the same amount and got even less, or none at all.” and essentially I said thats true but it takes about 10 hours to get 1000 tickets to which you said "I ended it and tallied just over 300 total Dragon Coffers, across 140 hours. Your number of 3 coffers every 2 minutes is a total load. " then we did the all whole statistics thing based on TP Stats and finally the video that showed someone actually making 100 coffers in an hour. Hope that clears things up.

how does this “The Zephyr Sanctum! I’ve seen cursory mentions of it in scattered texts, and some scholars didn’t even think it was real. I can’t believe I’m actually standing on it” mean they never heard of it? it actually proves the opposite. some scholars wouldnt think it doesnt really exist if they never heard of it right? it means some found proof about it and learned stuff about it but not every one of the priory did. some of those who didnt didnt believe those who did. Happens in real life as well… Dead see scrolls, tourin shroud etc… Doesnt mean we know nothing of them, we know plenty about them but there are those who agree and those who disbelieve.

Tyria is not the real world, they dont have internet and stuff. The Zephyr sanctum was on the elona / canta side of a rift that few if any have essentially crossed in the last 50 years. Why is it so unbelievable that we on this side dont know on something thats secretive and resides on the other side?

No these things arent black and white. Plenty of things are in a grey area. Does Area 51 exist? does Atlantis exist? Does the Yeti Exist? Does the locness monster exist? Some will tell you yes, some will tell you thats crazy talk. It can be both at the same time. But enough theories lets talk facts. Ask any scientist is the world round or flat before Copernicus did his stuff and most of them would tell you its crazy talk.. not all though. Plenty of people speculated before Copernicus it might actually be round. It happens. Just cause some claim to have seen the Yeti it doesnt mean that all scientist will believe it exists however common people believe easier. Likewise Magnus never had dealings with the zephrytes themselves, his knowledge is hear say, just like some people hear about yeti, ufo sightings whatever and believe. Its harder to convince scientists (priory kinda falls under that) Why is it so implausable for you that some group of merchant while looking for dealings far and wide might have come across the zephyre sanctum, made dealings and reported back while most of the priory remained skeptical? The merchant reports dont make it a fact, the merchants might not even be lying just got dubed by some scammers pretending to be some mythical society that have spectacular and exotic stuff to get a better deal.

Also why pirates? who says it was pirates who told magnus about the sanctum?

so with the theory and explantions out the way… let me give a scenario which I believe satisfies your how can magnus know but not the priory premise.

So the Sanctum is a legend much like the locness monster. How did it come to be? they’re a secretive society and had dealing mostly with elona or canta but once or twice for some reason (perhaps elona was going through hard time, which is very likely) they came to some remote area of kryta to trade. needless to say the traders they made contact with where fascinated by their stuff and mostly the aspects I guess. Thats when one ruthless merchant stole the account of one of the zepherytes. They left. The merchants that made contact told others of what they saw and the legend was born. Some from the priory probably knew of the past sanctums and the the guardians of glint but nothing has been heard for centuries but now there is this first hand account. Some believe it to be fake, some believe it as proof there is something to those old stories. Focusing on LA, this new city build from essentially pirates is currently struggling to gain legitmacy. Its currently ruled by a council made from wealthy merchants and captains. How better to gain legitimacy then to make a trade agreement with these legendary zepherites and thus have exclusive access to exotic items no one else can get? Over night every major goverment will beg to open trade relationships with LA. So they sent out merchants trying to strike a deal with sanctum. None managed to find it… Magnus says the failed, didnt say how… its plausable they failed cause they never managed to make contact. Anyhow… fast forward to the bazaar. this is where it get tricky with my scenario. The bazaar has to have had advanced warning of the sanctum attending. Considering Magnus says its just a rumor, what might be plausable is some merchants from far away lands on their way to the bazaar sighted the sanctum. Not knowing what it was they kept on there way and reported their sighting when they got at the bazaar at which case some who knew the legend thought it might be the sanctum. People might have put one plus one together and concluded the sanctum was probably on their way to the bazaar which turned out to be the case.

The rumor part is slightly weak but the rest is entirely plausable imho.

Great post, well thought out! I’d also like to see ArenaNet get back to it’s Guild Wars roots. I mean the name of the company says it all "Arena"Net! They made an awesome game called “Guild Wars”! The PvE in the original Guild Wars was basically a long, story driven tutorial for the REAL game… competitive PvP! There were several flavors of PvP you could enjoy from Alliance Battles, 1v1, GvG, all the way to tournament PvP. Lately it seems like all the new content is repetitive farming content while the PvP side still has only ONE mode of competitive PvP.

Oh well, I don’t want to try to flip this discussion to PvP, just something a guildie and I talked about that’s been rattling in my brain the last couple days.

Okay, you tallied everyting I said so far with the Dragon coffers, so, whats your point? That you still forget about Casual players in your statements, who aren’t going to farm nothing but the same creature for hours and hours on end, and probably don’t even play as much as I do, so had less access to everything we have discusses so far, and they are probably the 95% of the players I am talking about? The people who don’t play like its a full time job? And definitely not like the people who play for 80+hours a week? No? You forgot? You also showed me a 13 and a half minute video, and showed someone getting 23 dragon coffers, which doesn’t actually prove that you can get 100 in an hour, It proved that you can get 23 in 14 minutes, but because of how drops work in this game, just like the tickets, you can go 15 minutes and get 30 coffers, but you can also go 15 minutes and get 0 coffers? Well, guess your point didn’t get across yet, better make another long post explaining that to me.

Okay, moving on to the next one:

And wow are your explanations on the Zephyrites starting to get pretty long, and starting to sound less and less likely. Just to be safe though, I think you should spend another long post explaining how a Norn would be on the Zephyr Sanctum, yet people in the Priory still can’t agree on its exisence, yet both groups are based in the shiverpeaks, and the Priory is pretty much all over Tyria, though Rich Merchants were sure that it existed, but probably thought it was a stupid old legend anyways, even though you have tried arguing that the Zephyr Sanctum was around for only five years, and at the same time, tried arguing thakittens been around for longer/or there is more than one Sanctum.

@Bilbobaggins

No, you are right about PvP. There should be GvG battles, etc. But, I didn’t want to mention them yet because in order to have those, we should have Guild Halls first. Either way, its a Guild Improvement that needs to be done.

Amen to the guild halls! I’d also like to see Rift-like player housing implemented as well.

You’re not listening to what I am saying. Lets say we have 3 players who are going to play 1 hour. Player A, B, C

Player A farms holos, gets 100 coffers
Player B does dungeons, in an hour s/he completes one, earns 1 gold, buys 100 coffers off TP
Player C does Dynamic Events, s/he gets 30 Coffers off drops, another 20 with the silver s/he earned doing the dynamic events, the other 50 by selling the other drops they got and the mats they harvested while running around doing the dynamic events.

None of they are cut out, none of them had to use real money and none of them got cheated because they had to buy stuff by TP, they’re just converting the different types of rewards they god, thats all.

oh come on, you accused me in a previous post of disagreeing just for the sake of disagreeing, please note thats what you’re doing right now. Sure in some rare instances the next 15 minutes he might get unlucky and just get 10 instead of a 22 then the 15 minutes after that he might get lucky and get 50 or he might get just 10 coffers and each of them will have a ticket… again rare occurrence do occur but they’re rare and thus shouldnt be taken as a norm. Anyway there are myriad other videos feel free to go watch them if you need a bigger sample.

You do get that the zypherites or the dragon brotherhood before them were a secret society. This was not the military where you could just sign up. Its not a nation where you get born into it. This was a secret organization. That there is a norn amongst them is no more strange then there is a human. There is absolutely no reason why they should be made up for humans considering they started as dwarves. But which secret organization is going to recruit one who’s primary aim is to spread knowledge? Thats like saying the illuminati if they exist would recruit a journalist. Thats the last thing thats going to happen.

The zepherites arent from Tyria, they’re from canta and elona.

I havent tried to argue anything, those are all facts:
Short story:
“Our predecessors, the dwarven Brotherhood, knew she was different.”

that refers to the dwarven brotherhood which existed for at least 350 years, probably more.

From the short story again
“We will take her back with us and build a new sanctum "

This implies both that there is/was at least one other sanctum and based on the dates in the document the new sanctum is less then 6 years old.

However let me ask you this… what are you look for in terms of lore here. Are you really as you state concerned because things dont add up? Cause while none of it was spectacular pretty sure I gave at least a basic scenario of how all your concerns can be explained, it might not make you happy cause perhaps you expected a more epic reason and hopefully there is but at the very least it shows how what the lore stats is indeed possible. Yet each time you’re trying hard to poke a hole. Really it seems like you want it to be bad and try hard to discredit any explanations that might hinder that. Whats your agenda here?

On coffers, You still forgot the small chances of getting a claim ticket. You would actually need to spend an average of 10 gold, assuming that the chances are only 1 in 1000, but since some people have opened 6000 and got nothing, you might have to spend 60+ gold, which according to your calculations, is 60 hours playing the game. Wow, for a game that’s supposed to be for the casual crowd thats a lot of aimless, repetitive, see through, minion killing.

Well Galen, I actually don’t need 10 paragraphs for once to counter your point on the Zephyrites…Here it is:::

The Order of Whispers is a secret organization too. So,…what’s your point?

sure and some people claim to have gotten a ticket in less then 10 boxes so? what does any of it proof?

There is a reason why these events drop skins and not BiS items, its so they’re completely optional. If you dont get a single one, not ideal sure but so ? better luck next time. Whats the alternative? make it so 5 minutes of play is enough to guarantee a ticket and 30 mins in the release you already got all the possible rewards? do you think that would make the game more enjoyable?

Ohh please you’re an intelligent person as if you cannot conclude there is a massive difference between a secret organization and another especially one thats right in your back door to one that exists in a land to which communication of any kind has been cut off for over 50 years ago. If you’re in the US I am sure you know plenty about the CIA, including where their HQ is. Think about the Equivalent of a foreign country. Do you even know what the CIA equivalent of say Denmark is? Do you know if they even have one?

I suggest next time you try to answer your own question cause I am sure you could come up with the difference yourself if you had even tried.

Yes, I do think the game would be more enjoyable if everyone was able to get atleast one event weapon skin, either by completing the Meta, or getting one skin for free from a chest. I never said all of them. I am pretty sure I mentioned that already somewhere along this week long debate.

Denmark’s intelligence agency is the Forsvarets Efterretningstjeneste, which is responsible for foreign intelligence and is also the military intelligence service. I hope I spelled that right and I not accidentally offending someone in that country.

So yeah, I still want to know why it being a secret society is suddenly now important, as opposed to before when no one cared that Order of Whispers was a secret anything.

Lets put it this way, if you think that 10 hrs is way too much for an MMO to be enjoyable… and I am abit confused now cause it generally takes more then 10hrs to complete a meta but anyhow back on subject, if 10 hours is too much you have a big problem. Cause I am not aware of any MMO and I mean ANY MMO that rewards any prestigious items for just 10 hrs of game play. They generally speaking all take months of grinding the same raid / dungeon.

Of course you spelled that right, how can you miss spell a copy and paste operation? Now imagine coming up with that name in a world where there is no internet, where it hasnt eveb been possible to even sent a letter to the continent where such an organization resides for these past 50 years and the group in question is a fork of a previous group and this new particular one has only existed for less then 6 years.

But lets not complicate things. Tell me how would you have ever came up with the name of the danish intelligent service if you didnt have access to the internet or any form of media / books / letters coming out of the denmark for 10 times the period since the agency was formed? Logically it would be impossible.

Oh no. 10 hpurs is fine. 60 hours, and then after 60 hours a weapon skin isn’t even guaranteed, that’s what I have a problem with. I know I said that before already too in a bit less detailed form.

Oh, and that copy nd past operation was from an e-mail, not a google search if thats what you are implying! So lets see, I would send a letter/phone call to my uncle, who works in the pentagon, and I would ask him about other secret intelligence agencys. I would probably get mailed a 100 page document with all the declassified information on secret intelligence agencies in the world, and Denmark would probably be on the list.

As far as Guild Wars goes, people knew about the Brotherhood of the Dragon, which means that they should have also known about the Zephyrites for centuries.

Chrispy.5641:

Oh no. 10 hpurs is fine. 60 hours, and then after 60 hours a weapon skin isn’t even guaranteed, that’s what I have a problem with. I know I said that before already too in a bit less detailed form.

Oh, and that copy nd past operation was from an e-mail, not a google search if thats what you are implying! So lets see, I would send a letter/phone call to my uncle, who works in the pentagon, and I would ask him about other secret intelligence agencys. I would probably get mailed a 100 page document with all the declassified information on secret intelligence agencies in the world, and Denmark would probably be on the list.

As far as Guild Wars goes, people knew about the Brotherhood of the Dragon, which means that they should have also known about the Zephyrites for centuries.

in those other games its not guaranteed either its just the average is months instead of 10 hrs so you still got the same issue.

How would the pentagon know? hehe lets be funny here and mix a bit of real life with gw2… The zapherite sanctum has only existed for the past 6 years, Obama has prohibited anyone from venturing into the crystal desert for the past 50 years beyond which the great kingdom of denmark resides which is where the sanctum was built. For the pentagon to learn anything they’d need to defy their commander in chief which is already quite unlikely to happen. The operatives they sent need to get past Kralkatorrik and his minions. Get past the desolation. IF that was not enough they need to also get past Palawa Joko and his minions. Then they need to infiltrate the secret society, learn their secrets. Once mission is accomplished its not over for our intrepid heroes. They need to make it past Palawa Joko and his missions, cross the desolation, get past Kralkatorrik and his minions. Get through the sealed borders that obama closed 50 years go. Get back to the pentagon.

Now lets say the pentagon knew this was risky so they thought lets sent the expendables. If anyone can pull this off a team made of Sylvester stalone, Jason Statham , Jet li, Dolph Lundgren, Chuck norris, Jean Claude van damme, Bruce willis and Arnold Schwarzanegger is obviously our best chance…. though to be safe probably they put in Iron man and super man there too. Anyhow lets say they succeeded. Still do you think if the pentagon wants to keep this secret and considering they really have to considering they essentially committed high treason to get the information, you uncle is likely to send you the gathered information because some random dude on the internet asked about it?

Ehh no, or well not necessarily. We do not know when the order turned into the zephyrites exactly. Its unlikely this happened before glint’s death and glint died what, 6 years ago? contact with the region has been lost for 50 years.

What other games?

and, actually, if the information was declassified and was approved to be shared with the public, then yes, I could get all the information about just about anything I want to, and I wouldn’t even need the pentagon for that, just a library.

And,….well, lets equate the Pentagon to the Order of Whispers then. The Order of Whispers has access to Elona and Beyond and they know what goes on there. Since the Zephyrites ‘secret’ order was in the Crystal Desert with Glint, and the Order of Whispers either has to go through that desert or take to the very dangerous oceans to get to Elona, the Order of Whispers would still know the Zephyrites exist in that case.

Chrispy.5641:

What other games?

and, actually, if the information was declassified and was approved to be shared with the public, then yes, I could get all the information about just about anything I want to, and I wouldn’t even need the pentagon for that, just a library.

And,….well, lets equate the Pentagon to the Order of Whispers then. The Order of Whispers has access to Elona and Beyond and they know what goes on there. Since the Zephyrites ‘secret’ order was in the Crystal Desert with Glint, and the Order of Whispers either has to go through that desert or take to the very dangerous oceans to get to Elona, the Order of Whispers would still know the Zephyrites exist in that case.

Any MMO out there really!

declassified? I think you’re missed the part where obama ordered no one going there. How can something acquired against direct orders be ever declassified? admitting it was taken in the first place makes you guilty of high treason! so who’s going to declassify it?

No they dont

Or well lets say the order of whispers that resides in tyria doesnt and they have no contact with the order that resides in canta or elona… No one does, they’re totally cut off. Even if someone were to make it past the dangers (which is extremely unlikely) and get to the gates of kryta they wouldnt be allowed in by order of the queen. So even if somehow the order was able to do it because of some stealth technology they wouldnt tell anyone about whatever they learn because they’d be admitting to high treason since they’d disobeyed an order by the queen. So with that in mind why would they tell the priory or anyone else? Its not like they’re best buddies, owe them something or anything else either!

GW2 is not just any MMO.

The Priory and the Order of Whispers are having a Cold war, yeah! that’s it! and they have Agents infiltrating the ranks of each other, so basically they know everything about each other and their secrets, and therefore, the Zephyrites. And lets not forget about the Dwarf that lives near the Priory. I am sure that he knew about the Order of the Dragon, and he would probably know how it got passed to the Humans when the Dwarves went underground to fight primordus, and he would know where they are. So, technically the Priory wouldn’t even need to care about the Order of Whispers to know who the Zephyrites exist, and for some of them to not argue that they don’t exist.

Yes I know, its the most casual friendly MMO out there. I merely said if you feel this game is asking for too much of a commitment you’re in trouble cause you’re not going to find another one that is less demanding.

I didnt say that. I said they’re not close enough for any member of order to risk their life and the life of the order itself by risking getting caught in the act of high treason, if they even commited it which is in itself just a theory.

But this is getting ridiculous now. I mean yeah a norn amongst the zepherites, that cant ever be, its bad writing, a plot whole etc…

The order of whispers being able to sent agents that are able to avoid an elder dragon and his minions, the desolation and palawa joko and his minions TWICE, simply to get some news of far away lands we no longer have any contact with and then share that information with everyone even though they had to break and order by the queen to do it. Ohh not only you have no trouble believing that by you’re making fun of me for every reason i point out why thats unlikely.

I might be wrong but seems like you might have a little bias there

As for priory and the dwarves thats also impossible. When they transformed into living stone the transformation didnt just make them immortal, unfortunately it also destroyed their personality and sense of purpose as we’re told here:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dwarf

They are dispersed through the depths. Going to hunt them down would be suicide for various reasons.. 1. They’re probably so deep by now that anyone venturing that far would die of heat and stuff. 2. down there the situation got so bad that even the entire asura race with their advanced technology an magic were driven out. what hope would a small expedition have ?
3. why go through all this mortal risk just to confirm / deny a legend thats not really that important. I mean in the grand scheme of things what difference do the zepherites make?

so….what about this guy? :
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ogden_Stonehealer

seems possible to me!

Chrispy.5641:

so….what about this guy? :
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ogden_Stonehealer

seems possible to me!

cant say for sure, my theory is he was saved from the madness because he was ascended. Dont know if you played gw1 but Ogden Stonehealer was one of the heroes you had access to and as part of the storyline you had to ascend. Ascention gave you various blessings part of which as the true sight. True sight probably protected him from whatever distortion the other dwarves suffered from the ritual.

There is a reason why he was the only one who came back to the surface. And like he states in that link most of the others are probably dead by now anyway.

Besides, all the dwarves changed to stone and went fighting in the depths over 250 years ago how would they know anything about an organization that came much much much after? back then it was still just the dragon brotherhood

Maybe Ogden stayed above ground, and has been around for the last few centuries, and since he is the last dwarf on the surface, he should probably know about how the Brotherhood of the Dragon eventually turned to stone and turned their responsibility over to the Zephyrites.

ther is a lot of hard work behind all these living stories, you dont just create the aetherblade donjon while watching sesame street and eating donuts on a sunday afternoon, i say they’re doing a good job.. i know i couldnt do any better

We all know how they turned to stone.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Rite_of_the_Great_Dwarf

Those of us who played the original guild war where actually there when it happened.

The question is when others were recruited into the order. The dwarves knew of their end, it was foretold in the prophecy present in the tome of rubicon.

Not just that but the brotherhood had also glint herself who was a prophet.

In the end either the brotherhood or glint recruited a new set of guardians. If it was the brotherhood they did it in secret and Ogden never knew… cause else us who played gw1 would know too. Glint also had an offspring. We do not know what happened to him/her but somehow I doubt all the zepherites abandond him so most likely the group on the sanctum is just a splinter group making their knowledge even harder to come by.