Guild Wars 2

1. See screenshot. Why didn’t we get to see anything of this “renewed”, “cleansed” Orr? The three Orr maps still look the same (due to keeping consistency), but there should have been a fourth map at some point, showing a slowly blooming Orr that is recovering from its wounds. I am still waiting…

2. The title “Champion of Orr” that King Reza bestows upon us should have been a title reward for this mission since it’s a huge event that happened story-wise (even though the mission itself was easy).

Yeah, I thought it would have been a nice tie in to give an actual title there, seeing as that is exactly how the ghost of Reza refers to it, and it is a mechanic already in the game.

Hopefully this is something we’ll see in future, especially now they’re consistently adding new maps to the world.

I think it makes perfect sense that we’ve not seen any change in the majority of Orr yet. Even if people continued working to actively clear the undead and encourage new growth (possibly involving importing soil and plants from elsewhere) it would take years, if not decades, to change even small areas. If they simply left the few plants Traherene created to spread, and waited for stuff to spread across from the mainland, seeds to arrive on the wind etc. it could take even longer. Either way I think we’re looking at a few hundred years before Orr is back to ‘normal’. (And even then it wouldn’t be exactly like it was before – some species, like the Orrian gorilla, are probably gone forever.)

But it would be nice to see some progress at least. Maybe small protected areas with grass and shrubs, or even some small trees, and NPCs monitoring them.

The devs have stated that Orr is basically stuck in time. It’s partly like that as new players wouldn’t have defeated Zhaitan yet, so Orr “should not” be cleansed for them.

Danikat.8537:

Hopefully this is something we’ll see in future, especially now they’re consistently adding new maps to the world.

I think it makes perfect sense that we’ve not seen any change in the majority of Orr yet. Even if people continued working to actively clear the undead and encourage new growth (possibly involving importing soil and plants from elsewhere) it would take years, if not decades, to change even small areas. If they simply left the few plants Traherene created to spread, and waited for stuff to spread across from the mainland, seeds to arrive on the wind etc. it could take even longer. Either way I think we’re looking at a few hundred years before Orr is back to ‘normal’. (And even then it wouldn’t be exactly like it was before – some species, like the Orrian gorilla, are probably gone forever.)

But it would be nice to see some progress at least. Maybe small protected areas with grass and shrubs, or even some small trees, and NPCs monitoring them.

It takes an amazingly short time for plant life to recolonize an area, even when left to it’s own natural pace. No way it would take decades even if left alone. But to your other point, yeah, the ‘original’ Orr will never return, any new plants would be seeded from elsewhere and any animals extinct are not coming back, short of some magical intervention.

I hope a future LS map is located in a recovering Orr, just for my 2 cents.

Moonyeti.3296:

Danikat.8537:

Hopefully this is something we’ll see in future, especially now they’re consistently adding new maps to the world.

I think it makes perfect sense that we’ve not seen any change in the majority of Orr yet. Even if people continued working to actively clear the undead and encourage new growth (possibly involving importing soil and plants from elsewhere) it would take years, if not decades, to change even small areas. If they simply left the few plants Traherene created to spread, and waited for stuff to spread across from the mainland, seeds to arrive on the wind etc. it could take even longer. Either way I think we’re looking at a few hundred years before Orr is back to ‘normal’. (And even then it wouldn’t be exactly like it was before – some species, like the Orrian gorilla, are probably gone forever.)

But it would be nice to see some progress at least. Maybe small protected areas with grass and shrubs, or even some small trees, and NPCs monitoring them.

It takes an amazingly short time for plant life to recolonize an area, even when left to it’s own natural pace. No way it would take decades even if left alone. But to your other point, yeah, the ‘original’ Orr will never return, any new plants would be seeded from elsewhere and any animals extinct are not coming back, short of some magical intervention.

It depends on a lot of factors. If you’re talking about a bare patch of fertile soil surrounded by plants then sure it might be a matter of weeks (unless it’s the dead of winter of course). But this is an entire peninsula which is completely and totally dead. It was underwater for hundreds of years – which would have killed any land plants – and then raised from the sea for at least a few decades – which would kill any aquatic life. On top of that there’s the dragon corruption, which tends to drive out or corrupt anything it encounters, and the magic (which is Tyria’s energy) being drained.

It’s hard to tell with the way they do textures in the game but I’m not even sure there’s any soil there. So we’re looking at primary succession, over an area of probably a few hundred square miles.

Here’s an example of primary succession I just found on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surtsey

Short version: 1964-5 a new volcanic island emerges from the sea just off the coast of Iceland. In 1967 the first mosses were found there, and it took until 1998 (33 years later) for the first bush to appear. By 2008 it had 30 established species, compared to 490 on Iceland.

Now Orr has some advantages over that island. Firstly it’s climate is sub-tropical, if not tropical (I’m not sure we know exactly where Tyria’s equator is) and it’s a peninsula rather than an island so species which have a hard time crossing the sea can get there. But on the other hand it’s a much bigger area, with a wider range of topography so it’s unlikely the same species could populate the entire area.

So I’m standing by my statement that it would take decades to get a self-perpetuating ecosystem going. There are many things that can be done to speed up that process (thankfully or I wouldn’t have a job) but even with an intensive effort by a large, experienced team the most I’d expect to see after 5 years is the very first signs of life re-establishing itself.

And on top of that there’s the dragon corruption. We know next to nothing about how that works. We know Tyria can recover from it, because we know the dragons rose once before, absorbed all the magic they could and then went back to sleep and other life survived. But we don’t know how long it took or if the corruption had any lasting effects. For all we know it’s comparable to earth before and after the dinosaurs went extinct.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

The devs have stated that Orr is basically stuck in time. It’s partly like that as new players wouldn’t have defeated Zhaitan yet, so Orr “should not” be cleansed for them.

Which is why I talked about a new fourth map in my OP. It could be added with access only to players who have already finished the Zhaitan storyline.

perilisk.1874:

I hope a future LS map is located in a recovering Orr, just for my 2 cents.

Me too. What a waste of story potential, I simply hate such loose ends. Especially since it is clearly stated that Orr was “cleansed”, hence the magic must have taken care off all the undead as well…

We know that killing Zhaitan and cleansing Orr didn’t take care of all the undead, because the revised Tequatl fight was worked into the story and the explanation was that after Zhaitans death its remaining champions mysteriously got stronger. (There already was lore that all the dragon champions are not unique individuals but a series of different enemies.)

The theory at the time was that they had absorbed Zhaitans power, and now we know dragons will take magic from each other that seems highly likely.

Which makes me wonder about the theory that since Zhaitan, Jormag, Kralkatorrik and Mordremoth all have champions that look like smaller dragons (Tequatl, The Claw, The Shatterer and the Shadow of the Dragon respectively) maybe they’re called Elder Dragons because they are the oldest/biggest/strongest of a whole race of dragons and all killing one does is leave the position open for another. Maybe in time one of Zhaitans champions will become the new Elder dragon of death magic.

Open up cleansed Arah for open-world exploration, and map-wide meta event. The dungeon can still show Arah as it was when players defeat Zhaitan.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

The devs have stated that Orr is basically stuck in time. It’s partly like that as new players wouldn’t have defeated Zhaitan yet, so Orr “should not” be cleansed for them.

This is the correct reason why Orr is still the way it is. Much like most other maps in game.

perilisk.1874:

I hope a future LS map is located in a recovering Orr, just for my 2 cents.

I was going to say the same thing. To show a “cleansed” Orr would mean introducing a new map that is free from Zhaitan’s corruption.

The question then is, what would this “cleasned” Orr look like? What kind of flora and fauna would the map be populated with? What kind of events can we expect to see? What hostile mobs can we expect to run into? What sort of lore would tie in to this map?

I don’t think ANET will put in a new map without answering any of those questions. In other words, they won’t put in a map like that just for the sake of putting it in.

Do the Caladbolg achievement chain after completing Heart of Thorns.

In [the third instance,](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Sword_Regrown) you return to the Artesian Waters and there a vigil will tell you that the cleansing and killing risen is still ongoing, being very very slow. To quote:

With Zhaitan dead, we’ve made good progress clearing the rest of his army. It’s still a waterlogged wreck though. I wouldn’t invest in property here anytime soon if I were you, sir.

In other words: Trahearne’s ritual wasn’t an instantaneous purification of corruption and eradication of risen, even after 5 years the progress is slow but sure.

So even if they added a fourth post-PS map based in current timeline, there’d be a ton of risen and a ton of corruption present.

They could use this area to make maps with some “pirate of the Caribbean” theme, involving hunting for mysterious ancient treasures, mercenary pirates, and remains of the 3 dragons, maybe even new mechanics that allow wars between big ships, maybe even minions of the “deep sea dragon”.
.
. … Although I have the impression that they have tried this pirate thing without much success by what I notice in Lions Arch.

When you waypoint into an area and you’ve already cleared it in the story, it would be nice to choose between “Revisit uncleared map” and “visit post-story map”

Anytime there’s a new map, the playerbase gets further divided. I can’t see ANet focusing the resources they have to make new maps that exclude people on anything other than which game they own.

So if they were to set up a “during Cleansing” version of Orr, they’d remove the “during Zhaitan” version we see today.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Do the Caladbolg achievement chain after completing Heart of Thorns.

In [the third instance,](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Sword_Regrown) you return to the Artesian Waters and there a vigil will tell you that the cleansing and killing risen is still ongoing, being very very slow.

I totally forgot about that. Yes, what a lame way to delay any progress in the Orr story, though. I mean, it’s been years now and it doesn’t make much sense, conceptually (in regard of the term “cleansing”; we should at least see nature regrow, no?).

Ashantara.8731:

I mean, it’s been years now and it doesn’t make much sense, conceptually (in regard of the term “cleansing”; we should at least see nature regrow, no?).

Debatable, actually. It takes a lot longer than most expect for plants to colonize a large area that previously had none (living) – see what Danikat wrote earlier in the thread.

Personally, I’d love LW map in eastern Orr, toward the land connection and thus closer to areas that weren’t completely corrupted. That could be a truly living place!

Tanner Blackfeather.6509:

Ashantara.8731:

I mean, it’s been years now and it doesn’t make much sense, conceptually (in regard of the term “cleansing”; we should at least see nature regrow, no?).

Debatable, actually. It takes a lot longer than most expect for plants to colonize a large area that previously had none (living) – see what Danikat wrote earlier in the thread.

Personally, I’d love LW map in eastern Orr, toward the land connection and thus closer to areas that weren’t completely corrupted. That could be a truly living place!

Plus the land had been submerged under the sea for many years. It’s saturated with so much salt water I think any flora would have a hard time growing there.

Vesuvius.9874:

Plus the land had been submerged under the sea for many years. It’s saturated with so much salt water I think any flora would have a hard time growing there.

You are aware of the fact that there are plants that grow in salt water as well as along the shore lines, right?

As for the argument that it would take too long: What was the point of a “cleansing”, which by the way proved that with its magic growth returns immediately, when it shows no effect at all outside of the cave?

Ashantara.8731:

Vesuvius.9874:

Plus the land had been submerged under the sea for many years. It’s saturated with so much salt water I think any flora would have a hard time growing there.

You are aware of the fact that there are plants that grow in salt water as well as along the shore lines, right?

As for the argument that it would take too long: What was the point of a “cleansing”, which by the way proved that with its magic growth returns immediately, when it shows no effect at all outside of the cave?

True, but I was trying to picture a landscape much like Kryta and I don’t think that will be possible with all the salt water. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong on that as well lol

I would like if they introduced new dynamic events to show that “cleansing”. Like the temples have a “undead infested” state and a “free” state with elementals as enemies.

So what I imagine is not only a bunch of “Protect Pact Member XXX while he plant some new seeds” or “kill the undead infestor” events scattered around the map but a complete new meta event like for example “Build up the new Pirate town whatever” with its own corresponding events and progression bar. Fullfilling the events will slowly fill up the progression bar and “unlock” (build) new buildings in that city for some activities. When it is finished the events will change to ones that keep the undead infestation in check (also represented by a bar). This time only failing events will move the bar further ahead, but the events will become harder and harder the longer the city stands. And when the bar is full the undead will try to overrun the city, destroying everything you built up but letting behind some nice ruins to explore ……..oh and it would be really nice if the guys who do the build up events can decide which building is built where (like in a vote or so) so that the ruins will also look a bit different each time ……. ok I will stop dreaming now