[Spoiler] Don't trash Scarlet, please?

[Spoiler] Don't trash Scarlet, please?

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Posted by: Valento.9852

Valento.9852

Q:

I know a lot of people hated her, and possibly didn’t like Season 1. I take that it had flaws, but in my opinion it was just on a more experimental basis, it was ANet’s first attempt at story-telling for a living world. Some (most?) episodes felt somewhat shallow or too linear, but now that we’ve been revealed Sylvari are from the Jungle Dragon, and after a small read on Short Story: What Scarlet Saw, I feel much worried about missing her lore for future content related to Mordremoth. From this short story:

Scarlet giggled as she raised her hand to her face and watched the red thorn vine chase itself between her fingers. “So much makes sense now. The Pale Tree, the Nightmare Court, Caithe and Faolain…it’s all part of a grand design.

“But I see the flaws in that design. My people don’t have to take what we’re given, or be what we were “born to be.” No people do. We can change the rules…well, I can. And I’m going to.”

It looks pretty clear for me what her intentions were: break free from a cursed destiny. We’ve heard it rephrased by Caithe… in Heart of Thorns trailer. I just wish her lore wasn’t trashed, her true intentions should be explained in-game, hinting what she believed instead of telling her true intentions isn’t fair.

Will you devs keep Scarlet lore for future content?

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Posted by: Waldir.2571

Waldir.2571

Lore doesn’t go away just because some people don’t like it.

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Posted by: pdavis.8031

pdavis.8031

No matter what her intentions were, she was still crazy. In D&D terms, she might be considered Chaotic Good. Her ultimate plan was to free the Sylvari from being Mordremoths minions, but the way she went about it certainly wasn’t the best. However through the machine and her visions, it’s pretty clear now that she was being influenced by Mordremoth, which led to him being awakened. While her plan probably was to disrupt the ley lines, and keep him asleep so she could take him out while he slept, attacking everyone else probably wasn’t the best idea.

“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”

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Posted by: Valento.9852

Valento.9852

No matter what her intentions were, she was still crazy. In D&D terms, she might be considered Chaotic Good. Her ultimate plan was to free the Sylvari from being Mordremoths minions, but the way she went about it certainly wasn’t the best. However through the machine and her visions, it’s pretty clear now that she was being influenced by Mordremoth, which led to him being awakened. While her plan probably was to disrupt the ley lines, and keep him asleep so she could take him out while he slept, attacking everyone else probably wasn’t the best idea.

Once I found out everything, I feel so much pleased by her role, even being evil it does feel “good” now. I think that Mordy manipulated her in a way she didn’t even realize. She THOUGHT she was releasing the chains, but actually she was walking into the abyss (which, btw, she mentioned in her journal). In her mind, she was saving all sylvari from Mordy’s influence, but this belief was planted (no pun intended) in her mind by the dragon. #speculation

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

I agree, that the sylvari society, and how it is shaped by their relations to Pale Tree and her vision for their children (vision that is at the same time protective, and yet extremely narrow, rigid, restrictive and ignores individual needs) is a great story hook – one that has been seriously underused and cheapened so far. Unfortunately, though, Scarlet herself is not a good device to expand on that – quite the opposite.

While i’d really like the toxic relations between Tree and her children examined in depth in the story, i’d rather not see it being done through Scarlet or similar badly done characters/plots.

Actions, not words.
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Posted by: pdavis.8031

pdavis.8031

No matter what her intentions were, she was still crazy. In D&D terms, she might be considered Chaotic Good. Her ultimate plan was to free the Sylvari from being Mordremoths minions, but the way she went about it certainly wasn’t the best. However through the machine and her visions, it’s pretty clear now that she was being influenced by Mordremoth, which led to him being awakened. While her plan probably was to disrupt the ley lines, and keep him asleep so she could take him out while he slept, attacking everyone else probably wasn’t the best idea.

Once I found out everything, I feel so much pleased by her role, even being evil it does feel “good” now. I think that Mordy manipulated her in a way she didn’t even realize. She THOUGHT she was releasing the chains, but actually she was walking into the abyss (which, btw, she mentioned in her journal). In her mind, she was saving all sylvari from Mordy’s influence, but this belief was planted (no pun intended) in her mind by the dragon. #speculation

Yup. And now looking back, with this new knowledge, it changes everything. Scarlet was not the “bad guy” but rather the “good guy” just being manipulated for the wrong end. It also makes sense why her true intentions were never revealed. They wanted to keep the knowledge that Sylvari were dragon minions hidden until now. We can only speculate on how the story might have gone if we knew from the beginning what her true goal was. We might have actually helped her in her goal if that was the case.

But then it brings the question of how she knew about the Sylvari. Was it revealed in The Dream? Did she go to the Pale Tree when she found out? Did she work with Wynne (sp?) and discovered the truth, but decided to go “rogue” and do something about it on her own instead of trying to maintain the secret? oh so many new questions!!!!!

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recognize my command!”

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Posted by: Electro.4173

Electro.4173

Yah, I’m not sure “waking up the dragon with your giant energy drill” qualifies as trying to break free. The sleeping dragon had very little control over Sylvari, but awake, well, look where we are now.

Unless she meant to destroy the dragon, but based on the design of the machine and what the panels showed after her death, I don’t think that was the case. Plus, I seem to remember her mentioning a “new master” at some point, which also wouldn’t suggest she was trying to kill Mordy.

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Posted by: Valento.9852

Valento.9852

Yeah. She doesn’t need to have a stronger role (as she already had by waking up the dragon, btw), but some clarification on her true intentions. It could be a short story too, I miss them.

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Posted by: silvermember.8941

silvermember.8941

I feel like some of you guys are progressing the story faster than the game is. We the players know the truth or possible reason for scarlet, however the sylvari except for caithe and pale tree do not. The point being once the world learns the truth, it would give the characters a way to explain the possible reasons for scarlet’s action.

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Posted by: Fay.2735

Fay.2735

Am I the only person who liked Scarlet (Even at the time)?

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

Am I the only person who liked Scarlet (Even at the time)?

Not really.

I had my issues with her, but I rather liked it. Probably because it was Tara Strong, and I can deal with a nice amount of wacky from her characters.

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

Am I the only person who liked Scarlet (Even at the time)?

I was warming to her character by the end

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Posted by: Palador.2170

Palador.2170

I know a lot of people hated her, and possibly didn’t like Season 1. I take that it had flaws, but in my opinion it was just on a more experimental basis, it was ANet’s first attempt at story-telling for a living world. Some (most?) episodes felt somewhat shallow or too linear, but now that we’ve been revealed Sylvari are from the Jungle Dragon, and after a small read on Short Story: What Scarlet Saw, I feel much worried about missing her lore for future content related to Mordremoth. From this short story:

Sadly, there’s already been in-game stuff that contradicts that short story. The devs have made it clear that if it’s not in the game, then it’s not official lore.

You can not count on anything that story told you being true from this point forwards.

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Posted by: DaShi.1368

DaShi.1368

Am I the only person who liked Scarlet (Even at the time)?

Nope. I enjoyed her as well.

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Posted by: Tom Gore.4035

Tom Gore.4035

No matter what her intentions were, she was still crazy. In D&D terms, she might be considered Chaotic Good. Her ultimate plan was to free the Sylvari from being Mordremoths minions, but the way she went about it certainly wasn’t the best. However through the machine and her visions, it’s pretty clear now that she was being influenced by Mordremoth, which led to him being awakened. While her plan probably was to disrupt the ley lines, and keep him asleep so she could take him out while he slept, attacking everyone else probably wasn’t the best idea.

Chaotic Good don’t go murdering people left and right just to further their own goal, no matter how noble that goal would be. Chaotic Neutral might be close.

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

No matter what her intentions were, she was still crazy. In D&D terms, she might be considered Chaotic Good. Her ultimate plan was to free the Sylvari from being Mordremoths minions, but the way she went about it certainly wasn’t the best. However through the machine and her visions, it’s pretty clear now that she was being influenced by Mordremoth, which led to him being awakened. While her plan probably was to disrupt the ley lines, and keep him asleep so she could take him out while he slept, attacking everyone else probably wasn’t the best idea.

Chaotic Good don’t go murdering people left and right just to further their own goal, no matter how noble that goal would be. Chaotic Neutral might be close.

. . . Chaotic Good does do that, and can do that, if they think they are serving a greater calling. It can successfully be argued it’s more “Good” to do what you must and try to stop an evil from becoming too strong to combat. Or to strike it down before it has a chance to act.

But in this case? Chaotic Neutral is probably right, but only because of the little head problem she has going on. She may have thought she was being Good, but no.

. . . Six Gods I hate alignment studies.

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Posted by: Becka Williams.4978

Becka Williams.4978

You don’t get to be a hero if you attack and destroy a major city and kill a whole bunch of people while waking up a major dragon who also goes on to kill a whole bunch of people.

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Posted by: Basaltface.2786

Basaltface.2786

Imo scarlet was a lot of fun… cause she was seriosly stereotypical “muahahaha” batkitten insane…rather then the current sylvari angst. I mean just look at her machines. Who else builds a giant airship with a darn drill or the piles of gears and green zappy stuff we tend to call twisted watchworks…and needless to say the alliances between dredge and the flame legion and krait with nightmare court. I seriosly miss all that insanity…

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

But in this case? Chaotic Neutral is probably right, but only because of the little head problem she has going on. She may have thought she was being Good, but no.

There’s no indication that what she was attempting to do, even in the beginning, before she went really crazy, was meant to benefit anyone else besides herself. Quite the opposite, it seems that her actions started from very selfish reasons.

Actions, not words.
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Posted by: Nilkemia.8507

Nilkemia.8507

Hmm…..no. Scarlet “Invasive Weed” Briar was a trash character who didn’t need to exist already. She can stay dead. Her story’s done, and it took more then long enough for that.

She’s always in the Thaumanova Fractal, or certain parts of Season 2 (via hologram and/or memory seed flashback) Feel free to go there if you need to see her again so badly.

(edited by Nilkemia.8507)

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Posted by: Shaogin.2679

Shaogin.2679

I have a slightly different theory. Scarlet was trying to break free from this pre-determined destiny placed on her, but I don’t think it’s the dragon she was breaking free from. I feel as though in Omadd’s machine she discovered the Sylvari are of the Jungle Dragon. We know prior to this she didn’t want the Dream nor the Pale Tree determining who she would become. I think in her mind, she was helping set the Sylvari free from the Pale Tree by awakening their true master, Mordremoth.

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

Hmm…..no. Scarlet “Invasive Weed” Briar was a trash character who didn’t need to exist already. She can stay dead. Her story’s done, and it took more then long enough for that.

She’s always in the Thaumanova Fractal, or certain parts of Season 2 (via hologram and/or memory seed flashback) Feel free to go there if you need to see her again so badly.

Technically all the characters don’t need to exist already. Rurik, Togo, Koss, Livia, Vekk, Ogden, Jora, Gwen, Logan, Anise, Rytlock, Zojja, Trahearne, Caithe, Primordius, Mordremoth, and our own characters.

None of them, singularly, need to exist.

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Posted by: Nilkemia.8507

Nilkemia.8507

The difference is that those characters have (or had) potential, and didn’t muck up the very lore with their presence and actions.

The point is that Scarlet should stay dead.

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

The difference is that those characters have (or had) potential, and didn’t muck up the very lore with their presence and actions.

The point is that Scarlet should stay dead.

I’m all for not resurrecting characters who have served the story (somehow). It’s why Undead Rurik ticked me the flock off.

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

I think in her mind, she was helping set the Sylvari free from the Pale Tree by awakening their true master, Mordremoth.

The notes we find in her hideouts, as well as the story, paint a different picture. In the beginning, she was just trying to free herself from the Dream and Pale Tree’s domination. Also, she was too curious for her own good. Then, after using Omadd’s machine she connected to Mordremoth, and got caught. Initially, shortly after that, her motivation was to trace the source of that connection, in order to be free of it (again, see the personal motivation). Later, when her corruption spread, she just went into full “muahahahahaha” Insane Evil Overlord- Servant to Dark Powers mode.

I don’t see a point in that where she would be acting for the sake of others. I do see a lot of actions where she invited disaster on those all around just to satisfy her personal needs.

Also, you really are attributing too much to her character – she was never written to have a complicated, interesting psychology, what you saw on the surface was everything there was to her.

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Posted by: kta.6502

kta.6502

Am I the only person who liked Scarlet (Even at the time)?

Nope. I loved her too. Logging in to do Season 1 achievements on Saturday was like turning on the TV to watch cartoons. The Season 1 episodes always put a smile on my face. It was sad that people screamed about how boring it was. It wasn’t boring to me at all. It felt like D&D finally had a decent video game incarnation for once (instead of the clunky dice ridden sad-excuse-for-a-video-game that is offically sanctioned by WOTC). I’ll admit that the story felt very thin.

I guess the Anti-Scarlet complainers were a bunch of young people who were spoiled by the modern games and forgot about the importance of good gameplay. I had alot of fun going through the Nightmare Tower with friends. I even enjoy the leftover Scarlet stuff in Fractals.

Thanks to Scarlet, SW and Vinewrath are easy peasy for my RP characters. Scarlet and her cronies were alot harder and more challenging than Mordremoth. Mordi is so easy that i’m able to breeze through an LS episode in less than two hours (while taking my time). The Jungle Dragon is so easy, I have to go to back to Draenor (WoW) to find a real challenge.

I will always see her as a tragic figure instead of a villain. ((salutes Scarlet))

(edited by kta.6502)

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Posted by: Zera Allimatti.2541

Zera Allimatti.2541

How the hell is Scarlet not a villain? She went insane, and sought only to watch the entire world burn.

Scarlet is no hero, and Lion’s Arch deserved a better class of villain.

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Posted by: Sinbold.8723

Sinbold.8723

There are still the remains of Scarlet’s energy robes all over the world and in WvW, so I’d guess they were left there for a reason.