[Spoiler] Oh, now Seeds of Truth makes sense
I went back to do some seeds of truth achievements after episode 8 and it does indeed make more sense… Like Steve Jobs once said, You can’t connect the dots looking forward, you have to look back.
But did Vorpp realize that Sylvari were imbued with dragon energy? Or did he just think that it was a special new type of energy from a magical race?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
But did Vorpp realize that Sylvari were imbued with dragon energy? Or did he just think that it was a special new type of energy from a magical race?
Not quite. From my understanding, he only knew sylvari magic did “wonders” for their golems, but specifically their relation to dragon energy was unknown by that time.
Is there even such thing as “dragon energy”? I was under the impression that the dragons simply absorbed and used the natural magic of the world. So other than maybe being a bit more concentrated, wouldn’t it be the same thing?
Is there even such thing as “dragon energy”? I was under the impression that the dragons simply absorbed and used the natural magic of the world. So other than maybe being a bit more concentrated, wouldn’t it be the same thing?
Well, I don’t know about that, but throughout the game you generally see asura researchers specifically stating “dragon energy”, and separating it from other kinds of magic. I’m not a lore expert, but I guess there is indeed a difference.
Is there even such thing as “dragon energy”? I was under the impression that the dragons simply absorbed and used the natural magic of the world. So other than maybe being a bit more concentrated, wouldn’t it be the same thing?
Dragon Energy = magic consumed and digested/corrupted by Elder Dragons. As I understand it it’s perhaps more potent, and certainly unhealthy.
I have a personal theory, that EDs simply condense consumed magic while awake – thus making it too powerful to use safely without risk of corruption (like putting rocket fuel in a Prius), and then release it and decompress when asleep, making it safe again.
The differences in corruption come from different methods and flavor of compressing (what I mean is they compress magic in different shapes and densities).
Still a better story than Twilight.
Is there even such thing as “dragon energy”? I was under the impression that the dragons simply absorbed and used the natural magic of the world. So other than maybe being a bit more concentrated, wouldn’t it be the same thing?
Crucible Of Eternity pretty much answers that.
That being said, the theory would make sense. Keep in mind, the Asura were responsible for “atrocities” against the Sylvari upon first contact. Perhaps Vropp was just some radical thinker who in researching his studies over again, realized something peculiar.
(edited by Ronin.7381)
Sylvari – The Only Dragonborn Race in Guild Wars 2. #bejealous
To my understanding Sylvari are neither dragonborn nor imbued with dragon energy. Sylvari originate from a Tree that sprouts from a magical seed we don’t know much about. This seed was planted by Ronan and Ventari who weren’t dragon minions either.
Since Sylvari are so closely related to the spheres of influence of Mordremoth (plant and mind), they are vulnerable to his corruption when exposed to it, but they’re not born dragon minions.
Of all the races, Sylvari are still the most resilient, only susceptible to Mordremoth under certain conditions, while completely immune to the other dragons. Which is also why I don’t understand why the other races seem to be intent on waging war on the Sylvari. I mean, nobody considered commiting genocide to Humans, Asura, Charr and Norn, because Jormag, Zhaitan and Kralkatorrik can turn their dead bodies into dragon minions. For good reason I might add.
Sylvari – The Only Dragonborn Race in Guild Wars 2. #bejealous
To my understanding Sylvari are neither dragonborn nor imbued with dragon energy. Sylvari originate from a Tree that sprouts from a magical seed we don’t know much about. This seed was planted by Ronan and Ventari who weren’t dragon minions either.
Since Sylvari are so closely related to the spheres of influence of Mordremoth (plant and mind), they are vulnerable to his corruption when exposed to it, but they’re not born dragon minions.
Of all the races, Sylvari are still the most resilient, only susceptible to Mordremoth under certain conditions, while completely immune to the other dragons. Which is also why I don’t understand why the other races seem to be intent on waging war on the Sylvari. I mean, nobody considered commiting genocide to Humans, Asura, Charr and Norn, because Jormag, Zhaitan and Kralkatorrik can turn their dead bodies into dragon minions. For good reason I might add.
You haven’t played the last LS episode, have you? Or are you just disputing the reveal?
As i remember Asura’s gate system was built on underground energy source which core was the Primordus (elder dragon) itself. So Asura’s shoud knew about HOW to use this energy especialy when they understand that sylvari has the same energy potential (i mean the elder dragon energy). Don’t you think ? As for sylvari – we met a dragon in our nightmare from the very begining and kill it which could be the resistance of Pale Tree against the dragon’s influence. However we should not forget that words about sylvari as a dragon minions is just only a single piece in ONE BIG CIRCLE OF LIFE where information could be understood in different ways.
So lets just wait what ANET prepearing for us )))
If these seeds come from Mordremoth (which is likely), it was already imbued with corrupted dragon energy. What I think it happened is that, similarly to Glint, it was cleansed by some ritual or some hero’s help. This means that, although it was cleansed, the potential of such dragon energy remained within the sylvari because Glint did not lose power upon freeing from Kralkatorrik. Something that remains a real mystery is what sort of corruption cleansing that seed was submitted, I don’t believe simply planting it and leaving a tablet at its base would be enough.
Don’t forget Mawdrey either . . . which took three successive generations of plant and various energy types to fully mature into something not inherently evil.
If these seeds come from Mordremoth (which is likely),[…]
That’s just speculation. We don’t know where the seeds come from.
What we do know, however, is that Ronan stumbled across them by accident und planted one of them without even knowing what would come of it. Ventari didn’t know either and most certainly Mordremoth didn’t have any influence on whether and where this seed would be planted. Mordremoth can turn and use Sylvari, yes, just like Zhaitan can turn and use members of the other 4 races, but that doesn’t mean that Sylvari were meant to be dragon minions all along. The only thing that hints in this direction is Wynne’s dream prior to her awakening and it’s not like dreams couldn’t be misinterpreted. You could also say, that she dreamt of the Sylvari being vulnerable to Mordremoth. Small difference, big effect.
(edited by Girion.5483)
If these seeds come from Mordremoth (which is likely),[…]
That’s just speculation. We don’t know where the seeds come from.
What we do know, however, is that Ronan sumbled across them by accident und planted one of them without even knowing what would come of it. Ventari didn’t know either and most certainly Mordremoth didn’t have any influence on whether and where this seed would be planted. Mordremoth can turn and use Sylvari, yes, just like Zhaitan can turn and use members of the other 4 races, but that doesn’t mean that Sylvari were meant to be dragon minions all along. The only thing that hints in this direction is Wynne’s dream prior to her awakening and it’s not like dreams couldn’t be misinterpreted. You could also say, that she dreamt of the Sylvari being vulnerable to Mordremoth. Small difference, big effect.
Actually the seed, and subsequently the Sylvari DO in fact come from Mordremoth. It’s spelled out pretty clearly in the last chapter of the LS.
Wynne: She’ll torture me until I tell my secret. That will be the end of our kind.
Caithe: The end of sylvari? What do you mean?
Wynne: We come from the jungle dragon. We belong to it. We’re meant to serve it.
It’s not that the Sylvari can be corrupted, but that they were created to be dragon minions. Created by Mordremoth for that very purpose. But whatever influence Ronan and Ventari on the tree led the current known Sylvari to break free from that. Just how exactly is still unknown, and may just remain that way.
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
If these seeds come from Mordremoth (which is likely),[…]
That’s just speculation. We don’t know where the seeds come from.
What we do know, however, is that Ronan stumbled across them by accident und planted one of them without even knowing what would come of it. Ventari didn’t know either and most certainly Mordremoth didn’t have any influence on whether and where this seed would be planted. Mordremoth can turn and use Sylvari, yes, just like Zhaitan can turn and use members of the other 4 races, but that doesn’t mean that Sylvari were meant to be dragon minions all along. The only thing that hints in this direction is Wynne’s dream prior to her awakening and it’s not like dreams couldn’t be misinterpreted. You could also say, that she dreamt of the Sylvari being vulnerable to Mordremoth. Small difference, big effect.
Directly from 8th episode.
Wynne: I can’t tell her what she’s asking for, Caithe. You’ve seen what Faolain’s capable of. She massacred those centaurs.
Caithe: They attacked first. She had to defend herself.
Wynne: She struck first. He was unarmed.
Caithe: I… I… No. I don’t think she’d…
Wynne: She’ll torture me until I tell my secret. That will be the end of our kind.
Caithe: The end of sylvari? What do you mean?
Wynne: We come from the jungle dragon. We belong to it. We’re meant to serve it.
Caithe: You’re lying!
Wynne: I saw it in my Dream. And if Faolain knew, she wouldn’t keep it a secret.
Wynne: She’d use it against Mother. When word got out, the world would see us as monsters.
Still a garbage reveal. “We came from the jungle dragon cause my Dream said so! Not like dreams can be misinterpreted or anything! Also awfully convenient that no other sylvari ever got this dream either! Meh.”
While this isn’t in-game, and thus is subject to not being canon, in last Friday’s Points of Interest the devs did say that not only were Sylvari dragon minions, but this had been planned well before Alpha, let alone launch. That they were nervous they were putting too many clues in the Sylvari starter Dream experience. The speculations and debunkings in the lore forums on this issue were mentioned. It was most clear from that whole discussion that yes, ‘varis are Mordremoth’s minions unless protected from him.
Still a garbage reveal. “We came from the jungle dragon cause my Dream said so! Not like dreams can be misinterpreted or anything! Also awfully convenient that no other sylvari ever got this dream either! Meh.”
I don’t know about you but my sylvari character’s Dream ended with the Shadow of the Dragon fight there. So . . . not sure how that doesn’t connect with the thing Mordremoth sent which resembled what was in the Dream.
Also, dreams being misinterpreted is not the same as the Dream.
I don’t know about you but my sylvari character’s Dream ended with the Shadow of the Dragon fight there. So . . . not sure how that doesn’t connect with the thing Mordremoth sent which resembled what was in the Dream.
Also, dreams being misinterpreted is not the same as the Dream.
Because at the time, everyone involved (our own character included) assumed it meant fighting Zhaitan, although we (the player) could tell something was off. If anything, that could’ve meant Mordremoth was connected to the Nightmare, or that was a lingering part of its corruption that the Nightmare Court had gotten in touch with.
Only later when the Shadow attacked the summit does Trahearne note that we saw that thing in our Dream too (which is a bit odd, seeing as Caithe was there and not him, thus it’d make more sense if she brought it up, but hey, not like consistency has mattered much now).
And…they could’ve done more to sell the whole “we came from the jungle dragon” twist. They could’ve had evidence that Wynne found in the cave to solidify her claim, show that she’d actually tried to research this beforehand. Some Forgotten artifacts, maybe pieces of seeds left behind too, something to show they were working their magic here—-maybe even testing/perfecting the ritual they used to free Glint, or maybe utilizing a version of it that could work without requiring the altar in Arah.
Then again…that would’ve clearly required more effort than they were willing to give. Sigh.
I don’t know about you but my sylvari character’s Dream ended with the Shadow of the Dragon fight there. So . . . not sure how that doesn’t connect with the thing Mordremoth sent which resembled what was in the Dream.
Also, dreams being misinterpreted is not the same as the Dream.
Because at the time, everyone involved (our own character included) assumed it meant fighting Zhaitan, although we (the player) could tell something was off. If anything, that could’ve meant Mordremoth was connected to the Nightmare, or that was a lingering part of its corruption that the Nightmare Court had gotten in touch with.
It’s my own theory, but I think Mordremoth is connected to the Nightmare – that it’s a latent programming of the sylvari which woke up in roughly 10% of the sylvari which have been produced as of the time of the ‘Secondborn’ and forms into this . . . cult . . . because Mordremoth was not yet awake. They didn’t know where the urges were from, only that it was not from the Pale Tree.
It’s not perfect but it fits.
Only later when the Shadow attacked the summit does Trahearne note that we saw that thing in our Dream too (which is a bit odd, seeing as Caithe was there and not him, thus it’d make more sense if she brought it up, but hey, not like consistency has mattered much now).
Caithe was there? I only noticed her at the beginning, and after it seemed like she had sort of stolen off to be on her own instead of actually talking with us about this. Also I had a human character at the time so “our Dream” wasn’t stressed as much.
And…they could’ve done more to sell the whole “we came from the jungle dragon” twist.
-snip-
Then again…that would’ve clearly required more effort than they were willing to give. Sigh.
Or more effort than they had time to give. From the end of BWE3 the whole of their releases felt rushed and imperfect as far as the writing would go . . . not to mention the gameplay elements, but that’s another can of worms . . .
It really looks like, to me, they had a plan and a story outline but left themselves not enough time to really work on it as opposed to working on the delivery method (the game itself). If you’ll look back, the places where the story was weakest presented was usually updates where the game itself didn’t get much added to it or was fundamentally . . . incomplete-feeling.
No, not making excuses for them. I just note they really . . . continually . . . feel like they’re not giving themselves enough time to work on this stuff and really get a chance to make it fully polished.
(. . . of course, that’s about what I felt when it came to Hearts in the North also . . .)
Sylvari – The Only Dragonborn Race in Guild Wars 2. #bejealous
Why? I tried for a hundred hours to get my sylvari to Fus Ro Dah an enemy into the wall. She ain’t Dragon Born. She’s Pale Tree Born!….which I suppose is Dragon Born….
Still a garbage reveal. “We came from the jungle dragon cause my Dream said so! Not like dreams can be misinterpreted or anything! Also awfully convenient that no other sylvari ever got this dream either! Meh.”
It’s not without precedent though, we know that only a small percentage of Sylvari have a Wyld Hunt and that not all are "kill X target: Niamh’s Wyld Hunt was to establish the Grove’s defenses and Trahearne’s is to restore Orr (not necessarily kill Zhaitan, which is Caithe’s – and presumably the PC Sylvari’s – Wyld Hunt).
Wynne could have been on a Wyld Hunt to discover the origin of the seed that Ronan discovered – and since she did succeed in finding out its roots (no pun intended… okay, it was intended), no subsequent Sylvari would have been tasked with a Wyld Hunt to redo a completed task.
sighs Well, nuts. This totally ruins the fanon I had created in one of my Sylvari’s backstories, that she was the child of a now-extinct “First Tree” and had been the guardian of the seeds that Ronan and Ventari found.
Still, I hope this means we’ll see the reappearance of Malyck, and the reveal of the second Grove.
sighs Well, nuts. This totally ruins the fanon I had created in one of my Sylvari’s backstories, that she was the child of a now-extinct “First Tree” and had been the guardian of the seeds that Ronan and Ventari found.
Still, I hope this means we’ll see the reappearance of Malyck, and the reveal of the second Grove.
I don’t think it’s realistic to expect your PC to be over 200 years old.
Having game lore contradict your fan lore is certainly one of the many pitfalls involved in declaring your character central to huge world-impacting events. Almost every RP etiquette guide made for any MMO will counsel against doing so.