Guild Wars 2

Hmm, Scarlet, Canach, etc… PATTERN DETECTION ENGAGED

Nevermind that Caithe has struck me as weak-willed from the Personal Story, flirting with Nightmare Court because her guild broke up. So yeah, not surprised she’d end up under Mordy’s control.

During the bit in Camp Resolve, I also noticed something else that was off about Caithe. If you talk to her after the story there is over, she has a voiced line in which she refers to you as ‘boss’ but with a somewhat condescending/teasing tone. At first I thought it was just Caithe being playful and being amused by the boss worship of DE 2.0 which she witnessed, but after this chapter was over and looking back to what happened in this and the previous update whenever she was around, these things seem to indicate that this might not be Caithe at all but perhaps a mesmer posing as her.

It wouldn’t be the first time the Pact has been infiltrated by a mesmer (Labwan the Deceiver in one of the fear storylines from the Zhaitan campaign). We know that Faolain is Caithe’s former lover as well as a mesmer who has been oddly absent from the story since Twilight Arbor except for apparently making a deal with Scarlet to use one of the TA paths as her factory in the Twilight Assault update. She had a rather teasing, condescending tone when talking with Caithe during TA story path, and that kind of behaviour would fit well with ’Caithe’s’ dialogue options in this update.

Looking at the rewards from the recent collection achievements, we see both Caithe and Faolain’s Blossoms with interesting flavor text, for Faolain’s Blossom in particular: “Here at last, dearheart. Are you prepared to join me?” Coincidence? I think the quotes, referencing events from TA story path, are foreshadowing things to come as the devs do know how many players would like to see Faolain back if only to resolve the plot about her and Caithe, not to mention to give the Nightmare Court a role as out of the Sinister Triad they’ve been the only member faction oddly absent since we moved west. Add to that the maze mission with Nightmare pods which has been added in this update, and all the clues are starting to come together.

What I propose is that ‘Caithe’ is not who she seems to be, at least not since her seeming return from the events of World Summit, and that she’s either Faolain or one of Faolain’s minions in disguise to use us for the Court’s own ends. What if the real Caithe never returned from her mission since the Summit and was captured by Faolain who would know her best and how to catch her when she was separated from everyone else and focused on the Shadow of the Dragon? Faolain would know Caithe’s mannerisms and fighting style the best considering how close the two of them were in the past, which would help her infiltrate the Pact without raising suspicion among Destiny’s Edge. However, Faolain’s character flaw is that she can’t help but be a tease at times, which would explain ’Caithe’s’ somewhat ‘weird’ comments during this update.

Or then it’s just Caithe trying to be mysterious, or Mordemoth starting to influence her, although I’d much prefer to see this being the handiwork of Faolain, which would ultimately lead us to tracking her down and rescuing Caithe from her clutches, perhaps ending with us finally cornering the deceiving Grand Duchess in a suitably dramatic battle.

Here is my take on it: The master of peace had a plan to bring the egg to a place where it would weaken or hinder mordremoth (dragons and probably also their eggs consume magic after all so the plan is to cut mordremoth’s food supply somehow, remember how we did it with the mouth of zaithan). However he failed since the sneaky path he wanted to take was already blocked by the morderem, lying in his death throws he wanted to tell us the plan (one that caithe perfectly understood and saw comming) but caithe thought giving the details of that plan in one of mordremoth’s strongholds surounded by his minions listening might not be a good idea and neither would be discussing the matter, so she finished him and ran with the egg in her “troubled hero” style.

HOWEVER YOUR GOOD INTENTIONS SISTER DO NOT MATTER HERE, THE FREAKING EGG IS MINE, YOU DO NOT TAKE MY STUFF UNPUNISHED!

I haven’t had a chance to play the story fir this patch as yet, but I think I’m with those that predict that this might not actually be Caithe. Following people, finishing wounded npcs off, etc sound like Faolin to me(especially after read the Edge of Destiny book).

Either that or perhaps Caithe has become corrupted/poison as is somehow being controlled.

From what I’m hearing, coupled with the the dialog from the teaser, this doesn’t sound like the “real” Caithe, even as sneaky as she is.

Will be interesting to watch play out though.

Maybe it’s actually CANACH somehow mesmer shenaniganed (Anise) into looking like Caithe to steal the egg so she can do more mesmer shenanigans to the egg and somehow defeat Caudecus because why not.

Quick question that might have a relevance to the topic :

Why are there “nightmare pods” in the labyrinth instead of “mordrem/tangled pods” ?

Because nightmare X stuff is usually for the nightmare court right ?

And caithe has links with the said nightmare court (cf previous comments + TA dungeon). Are these ducheys gonna fall on us next patch ?

Rauderi.8706:

Hmm, Scarlet, Canach, etc… PATTERN DETECTION ENGAGED

Nevermind that Caithe has struck me as weak-willed from the Personal Story, flirting with Nightmare Court because her guild broke up. So yeah, not surprised she’d end up under Mordy’s control.

Who do budding sylvari encounter most memorably (and, perhaps, influentially) in their pre-awakening nightmare battle with that awful dragon? Caithe! She greets all new sylvari with that terrible nightmare — which, I believe, is her way of determining which ones are most likely candidates for subversion! And boy howdy did she hit the proverbial jackpot with poor susceptible Ceara. A few personalized tormentous tweaks along the way (see illustration) and boom, everything turned scarlet.

Anyway, as mentioned previously, my NPE ele, given the option to not be irresponsibly wacky, would have excluded Caithe from participating in the adventure, given Caithe’s bizarre behavior at the camp. Caithe would surely have followed, of course, surreptitiously, and might still have done what she did, but at least if had happened that way my ele (and your character, fellow forumite) would not be an accessory to grand theft egg… o.

Xhyros.1340:

Maybe it’s actually CANACH somehow mesmer shenaniganed (Anise) into looking like Caithe to steal the egg so she can do more mesmer shenanigans to the egg and somehow defeat Caudecus because why not.

Canach can actually be seen in camp near near where Jory and Kas and Rox and Braham are. Ofc, he could be just a mesmer illusion either but I would guess on Anise or Faolain as well although Anise in my book has been acting suspicious for a while now so I am leaning towards her mainly because we haven’t seen much of Faolain which ofc could be on purpose as well. Just my two cents.

Caithe is now a Ninja Looter, something that shouldn’t be possible in GW2. Reported her for using hacks, hope she gets a lifetime ban.

Ok enough joking.

First its weird that the Master of Peace is getting deeper into Mordrem territory with every step while trying to protect the Egg. Its like, he wants to go there. First, they fly fly west to the Maguuma Wastes and then he is going northwest…. alone. But what lies there?
Two things. First it could be Mordremoth, but since we don’t know his exact position we can only speculate.
Second, the Bloodstone and I think this is the Reason why he is heading there. After all the Bloodstones are magical articafts and he could have tried to used it to nourish the Dragon Egg/Baby after hatching. But where could he get this knowledge of a bloodstone position? There are at least two Factions here with the knowledge of it. The White Mantle and the Durmand Priory, and since he got that Egg with the help of good old Ogden, he could also got the knowledge of the Bloodstones from him..

And to Caithe, well thanks to the Trailers Season 1 and the kitten in the summary it was more than obvious. Her unusual behaviour didn’t help. But was this Caithe or not? We can only speculate because we didn’t got anything, nothing about a possible motivation, a hint who she is working for, well nothing. Also it feels like that it should’ve gone a bit longer with another mission after this instance.

Canach will tell you that he doesn’t do small talk, and something along the lines of us not being the boss of him, if you approach him at the camp while you’re reconnecting with your group. You can approach him before speaking to Caithe or Taimi or whoever.

I’m not ready to write Caithe off as a turncoat or yet another corrupted Sylvari because she was acting strangely. Plus, it’s so trite. In fact, I’m inclined to believe the opposite: Caithe obviously knows something we don’t. If there is Nightmare Court involvement, out of everyone in the group, she would be the one to recognize the connection. She would be the one to act on it.

Given her previous ties to the Nightmare Court, it’s no wonder she adopted a different attitude once she began to perceive their potential involvement. She’d be suspect number one. Heck, she is suspect number one.

For me, when Caithe grabbed the egg, told us there was no time to explain, and disappeared, that was a flash of the old Sylvari we knew. She wasn’t thinking of herself; she was thinking of the future. Wouldn’t surprise me if she’s waiting for us when we find this mystical golden land we saw in the Pale Tree’s vision.

You’re also overlooking a very important fact of this entire baby dragon business: whoever has the egg is the prime target of however many factions. With the egg in hand, we’d be forced to do one thing and one thing only: hide it. If we don’t have the egg, and we don’t know where it is, we are free to pursue our quest to take down Mordremoth.

So, in theory — well, my theory — this could be a simple plot device to keep us on track, instead of branching off into a cumbersome side story involving sitting on the egg (quite literally?) until Mordremoth comes a-knockin’. To further illustrate that point, when you talk to Eir and Logan at the camp post plot text, you can ask them about Glint and her lair, etc., and the subject of Gleam comes up. They tell you that they don’t know if the little dragon is alive, or if it’s real. They wager that if it is living, that because dragons are so long lived and take such a long time to mature, that they doubt we’ll see it in our lifetime.

To me that’s a subtle way of informing the player that our characters hatching and raising a baby dragon is not in the cards due to the sheer amount of time and dedication involved. (Unless, of course, we discover a means to force feed it Zhaitan’s essence, which comes with its own risks.)

TL;DR — Caithe ain’t a baddy.

Tachenon.5270:

Rauderi.8706:

Hmm, Scarlet, Canach, etc… PATTERN DETECTION ENGAGED

Nevermind that Caithe has struck me as weak-willed from the Personal Story, flirting with Nightmare Court because her guild broke up. So yeah, not surprised she’d end up under Mordy’s control.

Who do budding sylvari encounter most memorably (and, perhaps, influentially) in their pre-awakening nightmare battle with that awful dragon? Caithe! She greets all new sylvari with that terrible nightmare — which, I believe, is her way of determining which ones are most likely candidates for subversion! And boy howdy did she hit the proverbial jackpot with poor susceptible Ceara. A few personalized tormentous tweaks along the way (see illustration) and boom, everything turned scarlet.

Anyway, as mentioned previously, my NPE ele, given the option to not be irresponsibly wacky, would have excluded Caithe from participating in the adventure, given Caithe’s bizarre behavior at the camp. Caithe would surely have followed, of course, surreptitiously, and might still have done what she did, but at least if had happened that way my ele (and your character, fellow forumite) would not be an accessory to grand theft egg… o.

My…my WOOBIE! That b[kitten]h! I’ll play games with her petaled head.

I kill you. [pluck]
I kill you not. [pluck]
I kill you. [pluck]
I kill you not. [pluck]
Grr.

You missed a petal

Alga.6498:

misterman.1530:

Wasn’t it Caithe that asked/mentioned that Eir was staring at the norn (Brahm her son). I inferred that Caithe didn’t know Brahm was her son. Which I thought odd. Would Caithe not know that?

I usually skim through the “lore”, since I could give a rat’s patootie…but I thought I saw some conversation like that.

Ya, I also thought that was really odd. First I was like ‘’Eir is looking at a male Norn? – Her son, Brahm perhaps Caithe?’’
Then she was like ‘’Ohh noo, she is staring at him at the flirting-looking way.’’
Like wtf? I didn’t really get that so I were looking around to find some special Male Norn that Eir might has been staring to..
Caithe, you’re really making yourself to look dumb. It was her son, godkitten it!!!

I thought everyone knew that aswell, but seems like they don’t, lol. Atleast not in this case for Caithe. If you really are the real Caithe, of course…

Well Rytlock in Season 1 didn’t know either that Eir has a son. So it’s not entirely off that Caithe doesn’t know Braham.

I found this to be the worst episode all-around since some of the LS1 "what the hell is this scarlet nonsense" episodes. It was short and just lacking in all aspects. I hope this doesn’t become the standard following the initial ’hype train’ that was episode 5.

Pirlipat.2479:

Alga.6498:

misterman.1530:

Wasn’t it Caithe that asked/mentioned that Eir was staring at the norn (Brahm her son). I inferred that Caithe didn’t know Brahm was her son. Which I thought odd. Would Caithe not know that?

I usually skim through the “lore”, since I could give a rat’s patootie…but I thought I saw some conversation like that.

Ya, I also thought that was really odd. First I was like ‘’Eir is looking at a male Norn? – Her son, Brahm perhaps Caithe?’’
Then she was like ‘’Ohh noo, she is staring at him at the flirting-looking way.’’
Like wtf? I didn’t really get that so I were looking around to find some special Male Norn that Eir might has been staring to..
Caithe, you’re really making yourself to look dumb. It was her son, godkitten it!!!

I thought everyone knew that aswell, but seems like they don’t, lol. Atleast not in this case for Caithe. If you really are the real Caithe, of course…

Well Rytlock in Season 1 didn’t know either that Eir has a son. So it’s not entirely off that Caithe doesn’t know Braham.

Yeah, I was about to say this too. It’s quite possible that DE isn’t yet aware that Braham is Eir’s son. (Although you’d think that Caithe, of all people, would have at least eavesdropped on some hints now and again.)

Walhalla.5473:

Caithe is now a Ninja Looter

Precisely what I thought, took me back to my WoW days. I really wasn’t surprised to have the thief in the group ninja the egg, lol.

I’m sure she has a good reason for doing what she did, but being Sylvari I’m bias.

Aedelric.1287:

Dangerous vines coming from the maguma region, erupting from the ground.

The Master of Peace takes the Dragon Egg steadily North West towards Mordromoth rather than heading south east towards the `floating´ city of Rata Sum. Not only that, he heads underground where the vines are coming from!

Logic is not powering this plot and never has, just idle whim. I think it a bit much to ask of the writers to change their ways at this point, the Idiot Plot is what they know and love.

As one of the above posters said, I think it’s going to turn out that there was a reason why the Master of Peace was heading west, something that’s going to turn out to be necessary for what he was trying to do.

Unfortunately, he died before he could pass it on. However, it’s possible that the Pale Tree knows and has given instructions to Caithe. Or the Dream knows, and Caithe has been given responsibility over the egg as a Wyld Hunt.

I guess we’ll find out next patch. Or we’ll spend next patch fetch-questing things that the Pale Tree needs to heal in order to drag out the cliffhanger for another patch.

draxynnic.3719:

Or the Dream knows, and Caithe has been given responsibility over the egg as a Wyld Hunt.

As far as i remember, her wyld hunt seems to be to “fight the dragons”.
By the way, i’m not sure if i remember that right, but wasn’t she the one that sent Destiny’s Edge against Glint?

^ Faolain tells her to go fight Glint.

Idiot ball writing is bad. Here is how I would have had done it differently:

The player suspects that Caithe might be a liability, since she is a Sylvari, and Mordremoth affects plants and the mind. After a talk with Canach, we agree to set up a trap for Caithe. We take her along at first, but then have her taken captive, for her own good. Or at least until we know what her secret is. But much to Canach’s surprise, we have him taken captive as well, because we still don’t trust him. Then it turns out someone else turns on us, someone totally unexpected, and takes off with the egg.

See, if the plot demands that the egg gets stolen, come up with something clever. Don’t make your characters hold the idiot ball, for plot convenience. None of the dialogue from the player in this episode, echoed the thoughts of the actual players. And that’s frustrating. Caithe would have been THE LAST person we would have brought along for this mission. Personally, I would have brought Marjory, Braham or Rox.

They could have had her following us at a distance. They could have had someone else steal it for her. There were better ways to write this than what they did.

Instead, they took the easy way out and just assumed that the character is an effing idiot.

I’m just tired of sylvari and mesmers. Use the rest of the world already.

Pennry.9215:

I’m just tired of sylvari and mesmers. Use the rest of the world already.

What? How can you say that, when you had the option of being second-in-command to Spinach Jesus in your own story? You got to follow the orders of the Sueyest Sue ever to be doused in Hidden Valley Ranch while he saved the world (only didn’t really?). You best be honored and genuflect when you say “Sylvari”, lad.

So my take on things…

In Glints lair Majory and Jory were talking about Logan abandoning Destiny’s edge, and how it seemed… not normal. Glint had mind control properties, and it made me think, after the conversation, that maybe Glint was influencing Logan. As Glint is somewhat prophetic, maybe she saw something in the future, and put in a plan. Minds had triggers put in place, and when they activate, people do strange things. The Master of Peace runs into the desert… the Aspect Masters follow him… Logan betrays his guild… Caithe betrays us… I don’t know. At first I thought that maybe Canach was made to look like Caithe by Anise… Maybe Canach was there because Anise knew something was “embedded” in Caithe… but now… it seems like Caithe is being manipulated, much like Logan. Anyway, just my $0.02.

Being sylvari I did not see it coming , I thought your race mentor follows you

masterJP.5048:

Being sylvari I did not see it coming , I thought your race mentor follows you

Wouldn’t have worked for any charr players.

Every other good guy NPC held the idiot ball.

It was the PC’s turn.

I can’t really disagree with anything in this thread… Especially this post.

Bazzoong.7145:

Here is my take on it: The master of peace had a plan to bring the egg to a place where it would weaken or hinder mordremoth (dragons and probably also their eggs consume magic after all so the plan is to cut mordremoth’s food supply somehow, remember how we did it with the mouth of zaithan). However he failed since the sneaky path he wanted to take was already blocked by the morderem, lying in his death throws he wanted to tell us the plan (one that caithe perfectly understood and saw comming) but caithe thought giving the details of that plan in one of mordremoth’s strongholds surounded by his minions listening might not be a good idea and neither would be discussing the matter, so she finished him and ran with the egg in her “troubled hero” style.

HOWEVER YOUR GOOD INTENTIONS SISTER DO NOT MATTER HERE, THE FREAKING EGG IS MINE, YOU DO NOT TAKE MY STUFF UNPUNISHED!

makes sense.

so we will end up with a new dragon (egg hatching) after mordremoth’s death, the new dragon will absorb mordremoth’s magic similar to what Teq did after Zaithan defeat.

Nilkemia.8507:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The books in the Durmand Priory told us she was corrupted… and yet for some reason we invite her on a top secret mission, let her grab the egg, and just stand there while she runs away with it…

I just… what…

No. Faolain tried to corrupt her in Edge of Destiny with some kind of poison, but was tricked into removing it. Ever since then, she’d shown no signs of being corrupted (aside from her utterly ruthless nature when it came to the Court, but for good reason) And the bad future showed her choosing Nightmare, but that’s been prevented.

While she still could be corrupted, she really shouldn’t be as susceptible to it as she was during the time before killing Zhaitan.

Still, with the Pale Tree down and possibly dying, perhaps Mordremoth is strong enough to corrupt even her at this point…still, aside from the shifty acting, she wasn’t talking to herself or being crazy like Ceara or Aerin were…either Mordremoth’s getting more subtle, or Caithe is “better” at hiding it.

If it can corrupt the first born now, what’s to stop more from getting to trahearne?

….

I think we may get to kill trahearne soon if this is true!

It’s either that or the egg dropped, everyone agreed to roll Greed on it, but Caithe was like, ‘Nope! Need!’

she pulled a Braham :P

but ya serious a little better writing would help

Serophous.9085:

I think we may get to kill trahearne soon if this is true!

Oh, pretty please?

I think it wouldn’t feel that obvious if we weren’t told what’s gonna happen outride in the description of this Episode. Caithe would be weired sure but if we didn’t know the outcome in advance I think we wouldn’t be that suspicious.

It’s like a german comedian decribed that phenomenon like giving the film “The sixth sense” the title “The dead child psychcologist”.

I think Caithe has a plan of getting close to a big bad (Mordie maybe, though I think Faolain) and needs the egg to gain that persons trust, to show she is on their side.

So she needs to steal the egg, to convince that evul person of her intentions, and then assassinate it her.

She did say “there is no time to explain”, after all. How many similar plots hidden behind “there is no time to explain” have you seen in books/movies/tv shows? Lots and lots I bet.

Not sure if this has been the worst scripted moment in Season 2 just yet. Probably once the next episode I can really say it was or wasn’t. To me though it would be between this, and when our PC magically knew Mordremoth by name in Episode 2: Entanglement.

Due to the poor writing, it seems the idiot ball’s been pretty prevalent throughout the whole season.
Taimi going all Junior Mad Scientist with Omadd’s machine? Sure, leave her with it unsupervised and kitten near kill ourselves when she turns it on.
Phunt comes in to steal her waypoint device? Sure, we just tell Taimi to shove it and let him.
And now Caithe is showing painfully obvious signs of deception if not outright corruption? Sure, we’ll let her come along on this supersecret supercritical mission instead of telling her to stick with the rest of Destiny’s Edge.

Seriously, after Scarlet’s ‘Mary Sue’dom dominate the first season, I’m not sure why I expected anything but similiarly kitten poor writing the second.

Lets retrieve Glint’s egg before the elder dragon of “mind and plants” gets his claws on it. Wait, I know! Lets bring that one plant-npc with us! You know, the one who is suspiciously eager to join us, and who has a big secret that everyone knows about, yet no one knows what it is (except the villain of the last Living Story episode). That makes perfect sense! Especially considering how little reason we have to trust the Pale Tree, in light of it knowing about Mordremoth all along, and telling no one!

Great writing!

“Whaaaaaah?! She betrayed us?! Nooooo waaaaay!”

All i know is i am getting tired of this “Silvari Wars 2” game. Bunch of over-glorified cabbages.

Rebound.3409:

All i know is i am getting tired of this “Silvari Wars 2” game. Bunch of over-glorified cabbages.

Fortunately now we have a reason to unlimber our trusty flamethrowers and go pay a visit to a certain Tree.

Rebound.3409:

All i know is i am getting tired of this “Silvari Wars 2” game. Bunch of over-glorified cabbages.

Too right. I started off hating them as plant-elves, actually grew to like them for their refreshing outlook on life, but now I’m just tired of them. Very tired.

Hey peeps? Writers? There’s Norn. Make them interesting. For once.

I am getting more and more the impression that the target audience this is written for is somewhere around 14 years old. This entire group of “b-iconics” is just a bunch of oversimplified clichees. We are suposed to take them serious like adults, yet they all act like immature teenagers. Except for Taimi, the wunderkind of Asuras. Smarter than all the grown ups, right?
And our character is their “friend” and appearantly starts to share their mannerism.
Makes my head hurt…
But at least the instances this time (and last time too!) were a lot of fun. Just have to wait through those dialogs and try not to think too much about it.

Pretty much. That’s why i never got attached to any of these new Destiny’s Edge 2 characters. They are all lame.

Leeeeet’s be honest here.