Guild Wars 2

First of all, I’m going to guess that a lot of those reading this have also read the stuff the devs posted about Scarlet, such as What Scarlet Saw.

Now, in the Seeds of Truth missions, you get to see a flashback to the Firstborn sylvari talking about what to do about the secondborn, who appear to have caught them off guard with their awakening.

It’s suggested that they should guide and teach them, which fits with the lore for the PCs and with the story about Scarlet. The problem is, Scarlet’s already there. Near the meeting, you can find the pre-Scarlet Ceara poking at some asurian device she found out in the forest.

So, the lore is that she was put off by Mender Serimon saying that he’d help her to find the purpose intended for her, which lead to her brushing aside the Pale Tree and other sylvari. But it’s also lore that such help wasn’t given to the new sylvari until AFTER she was awakened.

I know that it’s hardly news that Scarlet Briar is a lore breaking train wreck of a character, and I know they likely threw her into the instance just as a offhand thing, but it does highlight the fact that her story doesn’t make sense if she’s a Secondborn.

Meh. I don’t really expect a response, much less a way to resolve the conflict. I just wanted to get this posted so I could get it out of my system, and to hope that the devs try harder to not do this kind of … stuff … in the future.

I don’t like it either, but the official stance from ANet is that we should only treat lore and info from the game itself as canon. Anything we read or hear about from secondary sources, including short stories written by ANet writers, as stuff that isn’t necessarily canon and could be retconned at any time.

I find this disappointing because some of our best lore tidbits have come from those short stories.

The Firstborn were already guiding the Secondborn… this chapter doesn’t contradict that. In fact you can talk to one of the firstborn and he will tell you he is getting overwhelmed at trying to help all of the new Sylvair interpret their dreams. The meeting between the firstborn is them trying to figure out how much to aide them and whether or not it’s a good idea. It doesn’t mean they hadn’t been doing anything whatsoever.

(Though I still think the whole Scarlet plot line is a kittenstorm and yeah…)

Eh, no. The Firstborn are discussing how to guide the Secondborn at that point. Also, that mender that Ceara speaks to isn’t present, nor are any others. Inconsistent, plain and simple. But that’s the Invasive Weed for you. Shoved in there even when she isn’t wanted.

Is it bad I didn’t even notice it was her?

Talonblaze.3175:

Is it bad I didn’t even notice it was her?

Not at all. I envy your ability to pass her over completely.

i saw the vibrant red leave garment things and then hair and was like no way CEARA OMFG !#$ XD when running up and following lin its like seeing a firey red head haired lady in crowd of brown haired people. XD

i think its funny that she is already a legendary rank individual (clicked on her and the purple legendary badge was around her picture)

Hardly a lore break. You’re making assumptions and then refuting them.

I am not seeing where they have broken the lore? Instead of complaining about it, please point it out for those of us who are not seeing the bigger picture.

I find it more disturbing that they used Caithe’s memories to initiate what amounts to a Scarlet Brier hentai precursor. I did NOT need to see her naked, and now the fan-fiction will run more rampant than ever.

Talonblaze.3175:

Is it bad I didn’t even notice it was her?

Is it bad that I thought my brother (party member number 2 gets turned into straightfaced male sylvari) was Trahearne?

Jaher Dal.9503:

I am not seeing where they have broken the lore? Instead of complaining about it, please point it out for those of us who are not seeing the bigger picture.

In the “What Scarlet Saw” story, they flash back to her awakening. There’s a Mender there, who gives her a fairly standard greeting and offers to help her find her intended role. She rejects this, as any role given to her isn’t really hers. This was her first and founding act of rebellion, minor though it may have been.

In Seeds of Truth, however, we see that they are NOT guiding the Secondborn (including Ceara) like that yet, they’re discussing if they should. One of them questions if it’s even possible to misunderstand one’s own Wild Hunt. Given that there were only a few Firstborn, there were not even any actual Menders at that time. Thus, Ceara would not have gotten that greeting and that first act of rebellion couldn’t have happened as it was written.

Yes, I realize that the “What Scarlet Saw” story is also where we got that terrible bit about her in the asura colleges, which was somewhat retconned away later. Even with that, it was one of the best sources of information about her past, but now there’s another chunk of it broken. If we have to throw it out as unreliable, then that little glimpse into her past that we got in the current LS has actually left us knowing less about her than before. And that is an impressive trick of bad writing.

One of the NPCs in the grove Said something like:
“I talked to ceara again, she did Not listen.” And then he gets an answer.
So actually before were going to See her, someone is trying to help her!

It’s been known for a while that Ceara is Secondborn.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Interesting-things-in-Scarlet-s-Room-Spoilers/4194939

FrizzFreston.5290:

It’s been known for a while that Ceara is Secondborn.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Interesting-things-in-Scarlet-s-Room-Spoilers/4194939

Oh wow. One post in one thread. So sorry I didn’t know to look there for confirmation on that. Sigh.

What I suspect has happened here is that the writing around Scarlet’s story has tunnel vision: what can I do for Scarlet, how can I make Scarlet’s background better, how can I fit Scarlet into this piece of history etc. An unfortunate consequence of that has been losing sight of the race’s bigger picture to tell one sylvari’s story. When Scarlet’s story was written I suspect the secondborn age retcon hadn’t take place and so Scarlet was probably imagined as younger than she is today. She was criticised as being over accomplished in such a short time (and her history was expanded posthumously in season two) so they had to shift her age back a bit, which caused a break in sylvari continuity.

I suspect Mender Serimon was present at Ceara’s birth because Scarlet wasn’t originally secondborn. Ironically, Serimon’s presence at Ceara’s birth is what makes him secondborn. I suspect he was originally not intended to be a secondborn sylvari. I suspect Ceara was originally imagined to be born some time after the secondborn and after the menders had been formed, but the retcon earlier this year messed it all up.

Now I suspect canon would be Serimon is secondborn, born before Ceara, and he joins one of the earliest formations of the menders. The menders are not mentioned at all in the Firstborn meeting but they exist “off-screen” in some capacity. Secondborn seems to be a loosely defined group of sylvari, as the sylvari begin to wake at a rapidly increasing rate after Cadeyrn woke. It’s not like the Firstborn where seven two years passed between generations, the secondborn wake and each generation after wakes much sooner.

So some time perhaps shortly after Cadeyrn’s birth, Serimon is born. Meanwhile the Firstborn decide they need help with the new sylvari so they form the menders. Maybe a month or two later Serimon becomes one of the first menders and shortly after Ceara is born. It’s another case of Scarlet undermining sylvari lore but at least it can make sense.