Guild Wars 2

I don’t mind if content can be soloed. Likewise, I don’t mind if content can be done in a group. What I do mind is when I lose the option to do either one.

Your game was designed around the concept of dynamically scaling content based on the number of players present. Whether it’s a general open-world event or a personal storyline mission, the ability to support a full party or a party of one has always been there. And so, I’m confused as to why you would ever choose to break groups of friends apart when they’re trying to play this game together. First in Southsun, and now again in Dragonbash. I really can’t imagine a greater offense for an MMO.

When you created the Canach instance (the single-player one) back in Southsun, and the investigation storyline in Dragonbash, I suspect you were thinking of the complaints you received for ending Flame & Frost with a 5-man dungeon. I know after enjoying all the events leading up to that dungeon with just myself and a friend, I was certainly disappointed with suddenly having to bring a PUG into the last stage of that adventure.

But when many of us voiced concerns about being forced into a group, I’m pretty sure we weren’t implying we wanted to be forced into playing alone. We just wanted more of those “personal story” instances that scale in difficulty depending on whether you entered them alone, or with a full group (like our first adventure with Rox and Braham, or our entire personal storyline).

I’m not suggesting the Last Stand at Southsun or Dragonbash solo instances were difficult. They were not. What I am saying is that nothing kills an evening a gaming like logging into an MMO to play this event with a friend, and then suddenly the game won’t allow us to play together because someone out there decided we should really be enjoying this content alone.

To make this clear: Ability to enjoy content solo = good. Ability to enjoy content in a group = good. Losing the ability to do either = not good. You have the ability to dynamically scale difficulty based on the number of players present and thus support anything from solo play to full groups and all the iterations in between, so can you please make use of it going forward? Stop introducing events that can only be done solo, or only be done in a group.

Because multiple dungeons with different paths, wvw, spvp, guild missions and dynamic events aren’t enough to play with your friends?

I guess some people need their hands held by others for every little thing.

Actually, experiencing a brand shiny new thing is something I would want to share with a buddy. Not for the difficulty, but you know, play and comment the living story. Some people group for PvE exploration too.

OP – yes! This is an MMO (multiplayer, duh!) and while there should be a solo option for people who don’t like to group, solo should not be obligatory in an MMO.

I would say it has to do with stuff making sense.

We are “hired” as investigators more or less, and they want to keep things quiet.
Having me running around with 4 other people would make the risk for it spreading much higher than if I did it discreetly on my own.

PolarisNova.3867:

Because multiple dungeons with different paths, wvw, spvp, guild missions and dynamic events aren’t enough to play with your friends?

I guess some people need their hands held by others for every little thing.

LOL I do so agree, but with all that being said, the option to go into these solo instances could be setup so we can either solo it or party up for it. Either way, I do not like being forced to party up for anything & yes I do party, with guild mates if they or I need a hand or simply wish to run around together for kicks & giggles. Interesting how being forced to party up is a much bigger issue on the forums than being forced to solo. LOL. I find 8 out of 10 lifeforms of the human kind roaming around the open world just so happen to be alone go figure…

PolarisNova.3867:

Because multiple dungeons with different paths, wvw, spvp, guild missions and dynamic events aren’t enough to play with your friends?

I guess some people need their hands held by others for every little thing.

MMOs are meant to be played with friends, hence massively multiplayer

I guess some people have no friends

SnoodBeAR.5286:

MMOs are meant to be played with friends, hence massively multiplayer

As a matter of fact, that isn’t true. You can play with your friends in any lan-based game or online game, not just MMOs.

MMOs are, as you say, “massive”. It means that you will be playing in a world full of people: friends, foes, and totally strangers. And that’s exactly what you are getting here.

Don’t get me wrong: I also enjoy playing with my friends, and rarelly party with strangers, basically because my friends are normally online at the same time I do. But playing with them isn’t really necesary in ALL the play modes.

I can do dungeons with them, go WvW with them, do personal story with them, roam the PvE with them, do JPs with them, and so on. And normally, yes, do living story with them.

That some parts of some events can’t be done in party isn’t really a concern. As someone said before, for the sake of the history, it is ok that only one hero should walk around acting as a detective.

Playing alone some times gives us the chance to fully know our character, and to know his limitations without a party backing him up. And really, guys, how much is the must-solo content in the game? 1%? 5% tops? Get over it.

This post perfectly portrays the continual unsatisfaction of GW2 players. First of all, why would you want to do any of the instances offered this patch with other players? They are really really short and easy. Its superfluous to bring people along for it.

I don’t see why you need friends to watch a cut-scene… there’s nothing they can really do. The living story instances for this chapter were all solo instance, but that’s simply because they were filled with solo content. Other than the initial instance which required you to fight a lot, the other two simply had you scanning npcs to see if they were guilty. I don’t know about you, but that’s a bit boring just standing there while your friend does all the work. And yes they could have changed the content to be more group orientated, but that wouldn’t really fit in with the story line.

PolarisNova.3867:

Because multiple dungeons with different paths, wvw, spvp, guild missions and dynamic events aren’t enough to play with your friends?

I guess some people need their hands held by others for every little thing.

You couldn’t be more wrong in your assumptions. This isn’t about wanting help, it’s about wanting to play with friends whenever we log on to play the game. And we specifically logged on to play this round of living world content together. Why wouldn’t we want to be able to do 100% of our gaming with friends and/or a significant other when we specifically picked this MMO up with the intention of playing it together?

If I wanted to play a good game alone, I’d play a good single player game. There are plenty of them out there, and they all easily give a far better single player experience than an MMO ever could.

That said, I recognize that people like to play MMOs alone, and so I believe the option should exist. Whatever is fun for you. But that way of playing shouldn’t ever be forced on players who don’t want to run solo, because that’s not fun for them.

I respect the desire to have an option to fly solo in an MMO, but you solo-fans need to understand this is a two-way street. It’s not “your way” versus “my way”. It’s whatever is fun for either of us, especially when the game has the technology to provide that range of experiences.

Why anyone would be against that is beyond me.

lordkrall.7241:

I would say it has to do with stuff making sense.

We are “hired” as investigators more or less, and they want to keep things quiet.
Having me running around with 4 other people would make the risk for it spreading much higher than if I did it discreetly on my own.

As for the excuses (and that’s what they are) about this content not making sense for a 2-5 players.. baloney. We could easily apply that same flawed logic to any number of missions during the personal storyline. And yet.. surprise, we can do that content in a group if we choose to. How do you explain that?

I’ll tell you what doesn’t make any sense.. a group of characters that have done everything together since level 1 suddenly finding themselves thrust into a solo instance where they can no longer see and interact with one another, but somehow are completing the same string of events (e.g. Canach’s instance, the recent Aetherblade attack on Lion’s Arch, or even simply visiting the investigator’s office together).

I feel ArenaNet is doing an extreme knee-jerk reaction here in response to the complaints regarding these Living Story events ending in 5-man dungeons. And I’m right there with anyone voicing that complaint. But it was never my intention to see mandatory-solo content suddenly showing up in the game. I just wanted scaling content that could accommodate anywhere from 1 to 5 players. You know.. supporting all styles of play instead of just one or the other.

Edge.4180:

As for the excuses (and that’s what they are) about this content not making sense for a 2-5 players.. baloney. We could easily apply that same flawed logic to any number of missions during the personal storyline. And yet.. surprise, we can do that content in a group if we choose to. How do you explain that?

By your applied logic, some of the personal story chapters -such as when you fight in Divinities Reach to prove a noble is guilty of high treason- should be single player instances, since technically only you and a ‘second’ of your choosing are permitted to join in the duel. Yet the game allows you to play with your friends, even letting them participate in combat. This is illogical… but since they do allot it here, you feel it should be the implemented with this instance as well. However, there’s a big difference. In the high treason instance you fight, your friends can actually help, they’re actually involved and can do something, whereas in this instance all you do is scan a couple bodies and watch a couple cut scenes…. which means your friends would be able to do nothing but stare on like idiots. I don’t know about you, but that’s BORING!

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

Edge.4180:

As for the excuses (and that’s what they are) about this content not making sense for a 2-5 players.. baloney. We could easily apply that same flawed logic to any number of missions during the personal storyline. And yet.. surprise, we can do that content in a group if we choose to. How do you explain that?

By your applied logic, some of the personal story chapters -such as when you fight in Divinities Reach to prove a noble is guilty of high treason- should be single player instances, since technically only you and a ‘second’ of your choosing are permitted to join in the duel. Yet the game allows you to play with your friends, even letting them participate in combat. This is illogical… but since they do allot it here, you feel it should be the implemented with this instance as well.

That is exactly correct. There are many, many examples throughout the personal storyline that allow multiple players to attend missions that are clearly designed around the concept of the player being alone. That is definitely one of them. And yet, friends are allowed to join in on that “trial by combat” if you choose to play it that way. It’s a choice and it hurts no one.

In fact, there’s a personal storyline mission that puts the instance owner in an arena pit to fight against a number of NPC challengers. Other players in the party can not enter the arena. But what they can do is cheer from the stands, and their ability bar is replaced with different targeted buffs that they can use to assist their friend within the arena.

It’s clear that when ArenaNet wants to make it work, they can. Insisting they can’t is nonsense; if anything it’s just an example of them cutting corners.

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

However, there’s a big difference. In the high treason instance you fight, your friends can actually help, they’re actually involved and can do something, whereas in this instance all you do is scan a couple bodies and watch a couple cut scenes…. which means your friends would be able to do nothing but stare on like idiots. I don’t know about you, but that’s BORING!

And that’s fine. If it’s boring to you then you can go into those instances alone. But at least the option to go into those instances with friends should be there for those who want it. There were instances during Flame and Frost where all we could do is watch a cutscene between Braham / Rox and Rytlock / Eir. Boring as well? Likely, for some people. However, for my friends and I it was just enough that we were in there watching the cutscene together, and then talking to the NPCs together. We just like doing things together. The option of doing something together will always be more enjoyable for us than the alternative of playing these games alone.

I don’t think I’m asking for the world here. I’m asking ArenaNet to continue with its already established tradition of allowing groups to experience instanced content together, no matter how grand or trivial. Forcing players to go solo helps nobody, nor should it be a decision that is pleasing anyone. Outside of 5-man dungeons, people who like to play solo have always had the option of playing this instanced content alone if they choose. It did not need to be forced on everyone. Anyone who is excited about this change of direction or defending it.. I can’t help but think that it’s a case of misery wanting company. Player-X finds themselves frequently palying alone (and maybe not by choice) and thus wants to stick it to everyone else who is not playing alone. Or something.

Edge.4180:

That is exactly correct. There are many, many examples throughout the personal storyline that allow multiple players to attend missions that are clearly designed around the concept of the player being alone. That is definitely one of them. And yet, friends are allowed to join in on that “trial by combat” if you choose to play it that way. It’s a choice and it hurts no one.

In fact, there’s a personal storyline mission that puts the instance owner in an arena pit to fight against a number of NPC challengers. Other players in the party can not enter the arena. But what they can do is cheer from the stands, and their ability bar is replaced with different targeted buffs that they can use to assist their friend within the arena.

It’s clear that when ArenaNet wants to make it work, they can. Insisting they can’t is nonsense; if anything it’s just an example of them cutting corners.

Once again, different. In that one they can cheer you on while you fight, but what are they supposed to do here, pray that your technology functions properly and adequately scans the suspects bodies? ‘Clap to power the device’ would be nothing less then bull-kitten, since the device is instantaneous.

And that’s fine. If it’s boring to you then you can go into those instances alone. But at least the option to go into those instances with friends should be there for those who want it. There were instances during Flame and Frost where all we could do is watch a cutscene between Braham / Rox and Rytlock / Eir. Boring as well? Likely, for some people. However, for my friends and I it was just enough that we were in there watching the cutscene together, and then talking to the NPCs together. We just like doing things together. The option of doing something together will always be more enjoyable for us than the alternative of playing these games alone.

I don’t think I’m asking for the world here. I’m asking ArenaNet to continue with its already established tradition of allowing groups to experience instanced content together, no matter how grand or trivial. Forcing players to go solo helps nobody, nor should it be a decision that is pleasing anyone. Outside of 5-man dungeons, people who like to play solo have always had the option of playing this instanced content alone if they choose. It did not need to be forced on everyone. Anyone who is excited about this change of direction or defending it.. I can’t help but think that it’s a case of misery wanting company. Player-X finds themselves frequently playing alone (and maybe not by choice) and thus wants to stick it to everyone else who is not playing alone. Or something.

I’m not saying the cut scene is boring to watch, as personally, I love cut scenes. What I meant is that it’s boring to just stand there while your friend scans five suspects; what are you supposed to do? Id much rather scan them myself, to actually take part in the instance, and so would my friends. And really, what does it matter if you watch the cut seen alone or with friends? You can’t do anything with your friends while the scene is playing, so their presence makes no difference, all you can do is watch… and that’s the same regardless of whether you’re alone or in a group.

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

I’m not saying the cut scene is boring to watch, as personally, I love cut scenes. What I meant is that it’s boring to just stand there while your friend scans five suspects; what are you supposed to do? Id much rather scan them myself, to actually take part in the instance, and so would my friends. And really, what does it matter if you watch the cut seen alone or with friends? You can’t do anything with your friends while the scene is playing, so their presence makes no difference, all you can do is watch… and that’s the same regardless of whether you’re alone or in a group.

Why does it matter what people choose to do during a “scan five suspects” event, so long as they have the option of doing it together or doing it alone?

Speaking for my friends and myself – I would have scanned a suspect and everyone would have noted the response in the dialogue box that pops up. Then a friend would have scanned a second suspect and everyone would have noted the response. Then another friend would have scanned a third suspect and everyone would have noted the response. That’s how we operate. We’re less interested in who pushes the “scan” button and more interested in watching the story unfold together.

And how is this any different from the multitude of times we’ve been tasked with entering an instance to speak to an NPC and then abruptly leave during a personal storyline mission? Why do we have the option of inviting our friends into our “home” instance at any moment when there’s absolutely zero scripted activity awaiting us there? An action component has never been a prerequisite for sharing instances in this game.

None of that should even be necessary to consider. What it boils down to is this: If you’re tasked with scanning 5 suspects and you want to tackle that task alone, you should have the option of doing so. And (hurray!), you do. You always have, and no one is suggesting you shouldn’t.

But if a group of players is tasked with scanning 5 suspects and my friends and I are happy to do it together (regardless of how bored you think we might be), then we should have the option of doing so. We don’t, suddenly. For 80 levels of this game and a ridiculous number of characters we did, but recently with these living story missions that functionality seems to have been misplaced. And it’s really annoying to people who log into Guild Wars 2 to experience the latest content together. I simply can not understand why anyone would be opposed to this concern.

I’m not sure why Anet removes that capability, and I can only assume that it is because of development time and cost.

I would just assume that Anet found out that, “Hey, why are we letting other players to join in a particular instance when all they do is talk to the Commanders? Doesn’t make sense.”

During development of game and initial release, letting others join just about all story mode must have been ok due to the size of team working on it. However, when you have a smaller team and working on a deadline, you sometimes have to revisit the “existing” features and check if it make sense to continually adapt them or improve upon it.

In this case, it is definitely an improvement to make instances solo. It saves development time, saves money (time is money), and meets the deadline.

I would like to see more of this actually. Solo where it make sense (all current single-player instance), and group-ability where it make sense (SSC Null instance). Making one and/or the other just because some players “want/need” the option is not good, coz every players have different want/needs, the option must make sense. While it seems “noble/kind/whatever” to give all kinds of options, with limited time and resource, sometimes it just can’t happen.

DeathMetal.8264:

I’m not sure why Anet removes that capability, and I can only assume that it is because of development time and cost.

I would just assume that Anet found out that, “Hey, why are we letting other players to join in a particular instance when all they do is talk to the Commanders? Doesn’t make sense.”

During development of game and initial release, letting others join just about all story mode must have been ok due to the size of team working on it. However, when you have a smaller team and working on a deadline, you sometimes have to revisit the “existing” features and check if it make sense to continually adapt them or improve upon it.

In this case, it is definitely an improvement to make instances solo. It saves development time, saves money (time is money), and meets the deadline.

I would like to see more of this actually. Solo where it make sense (all current single-player instance), and group-ability where it make sense (SSC Null instance). Making one and/or the other just because some players “want/need” the option is not good, coz every players have different want/needs, the option must make sense. While it seems “noble/kind/whatever” to give all kinds of options, with limited time and resource, sometimes it just can’t happen.

You’re making way too many assumptions here without offering any reasoning. “Saves development time, saves money, and meets the deadline” – you have absolutely no proof of that. In fact, your entire argument is hinging on the idea that continuing to create scalable content is a laborious and costly process.

In fact, to get some ideas we can look at the development kit of other games that are available. For example, Cryptic Studios has its Foundry toolset that allows gamers to create missions for other players in both their Star Trek Online and Neverwinter MMOs. All details, such as mob placement, are handled by the player author. However, the game automatically scales the amount and types of mobs populating these player-created maps based on the number of players that populate the party when said map is played. No extra work is required on the part of the author – it’s something that is handled by the game itself.

Clearly a similar technology exists here. As you play in events across Tyria, there isn’t a developer adding and removing mobs, raising or lowering NPC levels, and swapping out normal adversaries, veterans and champions on the fly. It’s being handled by the game, likely based on a set of universal parameters, adjusted for level, that apply for the entire game world which can be tweaked and customized for finer balance when necessary.

Look, we’re talking about some pretty simple fights here: a solitary Canach, and two minor Aetherblade attacks sporting a handful of mobs. Meanwhile, the “Flame and Frost” update had us battling through completely scalable 1-5 player mini-dungeons alongside Braham and Rox. And the excuse of “costly scalability” goes completely out the window when we start talking about allowing parties to remain intact whenever players enter a non-combat instance to observe a cutscene or simply communicate with an NPC (something that was also permitted in “Flame and Frost”, by the way).

You’re suggesting that ArenaNet, after 6 years of development, has just now come to their senses and concluded that it “just doesn’t make sense” to allow groups to visit these instances together. I think that’s nonsense. And – by the way – I disagree, as I think it makes perfect sense for a group of friends to visit an investigator’s office or bonfire ceremony together and then all appear at said locations together, rather than spinning around after passing through a simple tavern doorway and wondering where their friends suddenly vanished to.

There is NO reason to create more solo-specific content. You already have the option of taking on these missions by yourself, alone, if you wish. They’re not adding features by denying groups the ability to play these missions together, they’re removing them. That is never a popular move. They’re not making more people happy with this decision – again, you already have the ability to do these missions alone; you’re not gaining anything with this change, so why would you be “more happy?”. But they are making people less happy with it.

I would sure love to hear from a developer on this, because it’s obvious there’s going to be no shortage of fan-generated excuses attempting to justify this recent change in design philosophy.

SkylightMoon.1980:

This post perfectly portrays the continual unsatisfaction of GW2 players. First of all, why would you want to do any of the instances offered this patch with other players? They are really really short and easy. Its superfluous to bring people along for it.

I would want to do the instances with my friends because I enjoy playing with my friends. And I especially enjoy exploring new content with them. It’s not about making the content easier, it’s about discovering content with people I enjoy.

I’m actually with OP on this one. The Dragonbash instance was a glorified Dynamic Event. I mean I’ve escorted so many things across Tyria that I’m confident they could have made it scaleable. Just doesn’t really make sense why I couldn’t have done that with a group if I wanted to.

I’m definitely against forced solo stuff. I play a lot with my GF, but since she isn’t quite the gamer we are here, she prefers to play with me so I canhold her hand through content (aka revive her when she’s downed). Whenever one of these solo instances comes up, which has only been twice at this point, she skips it, and I feel bad because now she’s locked out of the rest of the content.

I really really really urge Anet to take a look at this solo instance nonsense and make it scalable like DEs rather than solo or gtfo.

I’ve said this before in another post, but I wish there would be more instances tailored towards smaller 2-3 man groups. Most people just want to log-in and play with their friends, but most of the end game content in GW2 is focused on 5 players (or more) so you almost always have to play with strangers.

Now, I get that this is an MMO and playing with strangers is a core component of the genre, but there should at least be something fun and rewarding (personal story is neither) that you can do with a smaller group. Just the presence of solo-able content shows that ArenaNet supports the idea of not always having to group up to make progress. I feel like these living story events are a GREAT opportunity to introduce this kind of small-group-focused content. Hopefully ArenaNet is listening!!

I play with my guild and we coordinate to always work together, is lots of fun, little personal missions are…personal. I really enjoy everything going on.