Guild Wars 2

Personally, I find that the story to killing Zhaitan and Mordremoth to be too simple and I believe they have a lot of potential to expand an to a new story arc that’s at least twice as long as the entire Scarlet arc.
So here’s my suggestions, I do apologize if its long winded or if someone already had posted similar ideas, I don’t go to forums that often, Wiki a lot, forums not so much.
1. Zhaitan is not actually dead.
a. Zhaitan faked his death because he finds that the army he raised in Orr to not be enough to actually conquer all of Tyria. Since he is bascially a necromancer and the first target marked by the Pact, he had to fake his death and let the other Elder Dragons to help kill and secretly gather a stronger army.

b. Why would Zhaitan do that? A minion master necromancer without strong minions have to let its allies do the initiation for them.

c. Technically we never saw Zhaitan’s corpse and the rest of Arah, we only saw what the Pact and Tyria wanted to believe – Zhaitan died by their hands. Can fireworks from a low mobility mother ship really bring down an Elder Dragon? We did saw how easily Mordremoth destroy the entire Pact fleet right?

d. Even if we did see the corpse, the Elder Dragons are like 10000+ years old, they should have tricks up in their sleeve/wings.

e. And to account for all of this, why is there only a couple of Orrian Royalties and 1-2 Legendary Risen Priest of the Six Gods? Shouldn’t there be more since the city of Arah flourished at least several centuries before it got sank? 1-2 priest and royalties getting slain by the Pact is like at most 2-3 generations worth of risen minions.

f. As for the Sovereign Eye and his speech about the royalties having been freed from Zhaitan’s curse as well as Trahearne cleansing the source of Orr, Zhaitan could’ve actually just let it pretend to be cleansed to get the Pact finally off his back.

g. This should be possible since we do still see all the risen active in Orr, a summoned creature should be dead if the summoner is dead. Tequatl also suddenly gotten stronger and we still have no idea why, Zhaitan could’ve been doing test runs with dragon minion enhancing techniques.

2. What the Pact Commander destroyed wasn't Mordremoth's mind, it was his/her own mind, Mordremoth now possesses the Commander from within.

a. The Pact Commander saw the same Eternal Alchemy as Scarlet, the one that slowly and steadily got her mind broken by Mordremoth. This means the Pact Commander should be more vulnerable to Mordemoth’s control, and especially if it we played as Sylvari.

b. When the Commander kill Trahearne with Caladbolg, the sword was actually corrupted already and it gave Mordremoth a stronger link to connect to the Commander's mind.

c. Why would Mordremoth do that? Simple, destroying the Pact is nothing in comparison to the capturing the Commander since he/she is the real threat, turning the Commander into his minion will guarantee the destruction of all of Tyria. There’s also the idea that the second pale tree never actually appear

d. Basically the whole deal from Verdant’s Brink to Dragon’s Stand, it’s a trap to complete Mordremoth’s invasion to the Commander’s mind. Corrupting Trahearne was actually to force the commander to put him to rest personally, and if you choose to believe, it was never Trahearne that spoke to us during the ending, Mordremoth was using his voice to tell us to finish Trahearne with the corrupted Caladbolg.

f. The Pact Commander doesn’t necessarily have to show symptoms immediately, Mordremoth would be like a parasite or virus, completely merged into its host while slowly breaking it.

3. What this can lead to

a. Arc with Zhaitan’s return with stronger army with unexplored Arah, maybe underground temple?

b. Arc with the Pact in disarray and near collapse since their two spiritual leader, Trahearne is dead while the commander is under Mordremoth's influence . Possibility begin this arc by having an celebration event for “Mordremoth’s dead” similar to the one for Zhaitan and have the commander lose control and start attacking Pact members under some illusion/assumption that they were dragon minions. This could further advance to an story where the Pact is split into two factions, one wanting to save the commander and the other wanting to kill the commander before Mordremoth takes full control of him/her. Maybe turn it that Priority scholar discover that the only possible way to lock/block Mordremoth out of player’s mind is to attain ascension which leads to opening a journey to the Crystal Desert?

c. While the player is in progress of attaining ascension to fight off the insidious Mordremoth, perhaps the player might receive a vision from ascendants of the past warning that Abaddon is taking a advantage of the chaos in Tyria/complete absence of the human Gods and is slowly acquiring power to revive himself? Possibility joined by Dhuum and Menzies? This could bring the player to Elona and gather what remains of the Sunspears to take down Palawa Joko and Abaddon.

These are just suggestions of what could happen, I mean there’s a lot of potentials with all kinds of havoc that can occur with 6 Elder Dragons roaming around and disrupting the flow of energy across Tyria: ancient seals that ward off evil deities could break, landscape change could force ancient deadly monster (like the Karka) to migrate into central Tyria, or maybe war against the Sylvari race (remember the HoT introduction where they say Sylvari can’t be trusted? well if you don’t trust something, you most likely want to eliminate it)

Perhaps even twist the story about the origin of the Elder Dragons, saying that they are actually the dark/corrupted form of the human Gods. That the Gods live their existence between the cycle of awakening (peaceful humanoid form) and hibernation (destructive dragon form). Something like a split identity for the Gods that they have no control over. We got 6 Elder Dragon and 6 Human Gods, the numbers match perfectly. This can even lead to human civil war between factions that completely cast away the God and factions that embrace the Gods as what they are (not necessarily mean that they wont fight against them, just accepting them as the balancing force in the cycle of life and death)

The point is that Elder Dragon Arcs are too simple and have no twist, Elder Dragons should be cunning and manipulative, I mean they have lived over 10000+ years right? there’s got to be some wisdom in there.

Thank you for reading.

Edit #2
Another post, sorry for length and again apologies if someone already posted similar ideas.

Its not just the Elder Dragon story that can get the improvements, I think the race and Orders of Tyria can get more out of it too. Remember how in GW1, whatever faction/order you join (such as Sunspears/Luxon) have rank promotion system that lets you get new titles/PvE only skills/prestige armor? There should be more PvE only utility skills. I think what we do with character race and orders is too little. There should be secondary quest from your character race/order that you can do for promotional points to claim PvE only skills and other rewards.

Joining an Order should have its perks

Something like this:
Joining the Order of Whispers and completing certain side quest allows you to purchase/learn PvE only stealth/crafty skills such as:
1. Stealth mines/traps/gadgets
2. Dagger/pistol/rifle weapon kits
3. Shadow stepping/stealth tricks
4. Turrets
Elite Utility: gives permanent stealth as long as weapon is sheath

Vigil would be:
1. Banners that gives bonus stats vs certain monster types
2. Reinforcement summoning shouts
3. Defensive stances such as giving protection with struck
4. Signet such as increasing maximum health
5. Physical skills that can AoE/counter/block
Elite Utility: mark a target area and summon a delayed heavy damage bombardment

Durmand Priory would be:
1. Target stats modifying manipulation skill
2. Spirits that increases condition duration
3. Wells that causes condition that necromancer/chronomancer wells doesn’t cause, ex: confusion/burning/chill
4. Offensive cantrips that enhance that next weapon skill ability, such as adding damage modifier or cc like daze/stun/cripple/immobilize
Elite Utility: summon ancient spirits to tank/attack for you.

Racial utilies should also be adjusted to be comparable to profession utilities and be able to earn new ones by completing racial mission. I mean for human elite racial skill we have Avatar of Melandru, Reaper of Grenth, and Hounds of Balthazar. Where’s the elite for Lyssa/Kormir/Dwayna?

Another example of additional racial skill/sub-racial order for players to join would be:
1. Asura joining the Peacemakers or perhaps a “less violent group” of Inquest
2. Sylvari joining the Wardens or forming a new version of Nightmare court
3. Norn joining the Shamans or joining “Viking like” groups
4. Charr continuing building the war band that they never actually finish building from the story
5. Human joining the Priest of human Gods/Seraph/Shining Blades/Ebon Vanguard

What I suggested above doesn’t necessarily have to be like 5-6 skills with tons of benefits, it could be split into 10-20 utility skill per order.

It would be nice if racial skills and the skills I suggested to be categorized into skill types for trait benefits. Of course these skill have to be PvE only considering its strong potential, but remember how GW1 had those crazy strong skills too?

Also take into considerations that a lot of monster we got now can pretty much 1-3 shot you regardless of armor and health. I mean even if you have 5k armor with 20k health (4k + Rousing Resilience 1k), you can still get 1 shot by a stray attack. What’s the point of taking toughness over offensive stats then? I kinda want PvE only toughness stat buff against monster

That being said considering the Order skills to be more beneficial to certain profession, I think that as long as the player reaches the rank Pact Commander in the story, they should be allow to do mission and learn skills from any Orders. Maybe even get Pact Commander utility skills.

The Point is that the GW1 we love have like 1k skill to choose from and they have more interaction with the factions/orders you joined. GW2 should have that as well.

In addition to the points above, I think we can get Mastery systems for the Orders of Tyria and Racial factions as well. Again only applicable to PvE only

Thanks for reading.

Great suggestions, I really like the sinister implications of your proposals. Especially proposal #2 up there, leading to some kind of “redemption” plot for the player after getting “indoctrinated” (oh boy another Mass Effect reference) by the Elder Dragons. It would be a really interesting way to reincorporate the Six Gods and some of the old locations from GW1.

I agree that the whole “kill dragons one by one” story arc is way too simplistic. It feels like going down a list and checking the boxes.

SPOILERS BELOW

They have lived a long time but they have never been pushed to the edge or even beaten, they underestimate their adversary thinking that they will obey their will, I like the end as it shows that the Sylvari are not just weak willed puppets and that they may have been born as his minions but during their time on Tyria they have became much more and it gives Trahearne the chance to show how strong his will and conviction are, and the pacts as well.

I think that after the Elder Dragons other threats may emerge, the Chak for instance? plus maybe whilst Tyria has been seperated new enemies have been in Cantha and Elona.

I think they should have an LS3 where maybe a fragment of Mordremoth remains and you need to put it down once and for all, plus a funeral for the fallen.

Just a few ideas xD

The 2 suggestion reminds me of Arkham Knight’s Joker arc. Brilliant!

Imperios.2543:

The 2 suggestion reminds me of Arkham Knight’s Joker arc. Brilliant!

If it’s been done already, how is it brilliant?

I love pact commander evil! Being the PC, it would be tricky to add play time, but honestly that’s such a good story I wouldn’t care if it was mostly cutscenes. They could add more playtime by saying his grasp on you is weak, and you can periodically break free. Also makes the dragons even MORE dangerous

I was actually planning on making another thread titled “the future…” buuuuut that would just mean another thread so why not instead post our ideas for whats in store for the Commander and its allies? As for OP post….I RESPECTFULLY disagree on some parts with you and our fun theories about the future will be completely different. :P
I personally believe that both Zaithan and Mordremoth are truly dead.
Zaithan’s fight is the complete opposite of Mordremoth, anticlimactic. We did not defeat the dragon directly simply shot a huge lazer at him and “poof” he dead. Yes everyone the dragon of death is dead……..YESSSSSS! And many NPCs have said that Zaithan is dead yadda yadda.
Mordremoth on the other hand………is brilliantly killed and I guess OP theory about Caldabog COULD be true…….but to ME Mordy is dead and confirmed. As Canach puts it “we are just fleas walking on an island” Mordremoth IS the jungle. In the last map Dragon Stand there is basically just one huge meta event where you escort and build Pact defenses, all of it culminating in a fantastic battle against the Mouth of Mordremoth. Since Mordy is…well…..THE jungle it would be impossible to kill (the Pact found out the hard way XD). What’s the logical step? Kill his mind. Trahearne essentially had a seed that contained part of Mordy’s mind which we also destroy. So Mordy’s physical body is intact BUT he is essentially in a comatose with no ways to feed. The end…..but…….what’s in store for the future?
The ending of the HoT story……didnt feel like an ending……..yeah Mordy is dead but there are so many loose ends and potential storylines with characters.
Pact members: they are still disbanded, lost, and injured……shouldnt we help them escape the junlge? are they aware that the Jungle dragon is dead and they can trust Sylvari?
Nobles: same as Pact members, sure the event with Faren helped like what…….4 nobles escape?
The frog people: Personally I think their “story” could be over since their only concern was that Mordy was a nuisance to them and we clearly see frog allies in the fight against the mouth, so yeah happy ending to the frog people………..will the frog people play a relevant role again? Have some of them travel to the magumma jungle and meet Hylek or vice-versa. Just plz dont forget about the frog people
The Mursaat/egg: this plot is……resolved? we sought this thing ever since seaon 2 and thats it? no mention it absorbed the dragon magic? Since having the egg stolen would be repetitive I guess its okay that “the mursaat will watch over the egg until it hatches”
Destiny’s Edge: they are practically broken, Rytlock is a completely different Charr with his new magic, Caithe needs to make amends (I personally still do not trust her), Loga and Zoijja need to catch up with everything……and Mr. Sparkles, Garm, and EIR are dead…….how is this not going to affect them?
Destiny’s Edge 2.0 as a group: evolve them. At this point our group of adventurers have proven themselves, why not make an individual story line of how each of them get their specialization? Anet shouldn’t be afraid to make individual story arcs with them.
Braham: Besides making a dragonhunter (which obviously would tie in in Eir’s death) I cannot really think of anything else, his story arc of his mother being dead and avenging her is done.
Rox: we could learn more about Rox’s past and help her get past her…past by visiting the mine her warband died and help her finish the job they were doing. We could also help her rekindle her friendship with Rytlock and make him spit out whatever he was doing in the Mists.
Taimi: we need to pick her up in the abandoned Rata Novus Lab. Maybe there she can exposition to us how the egg absorbed the magic. We could also help assemble Scruffy 2.0
Marjory: Now that her story of avenging her sister is finally over if you talk to her she mentions she and Kasmeer have been talking about “Personal problems” maybe we could help them sort out their relationship (if you can call them a couple, all I’ve seen is them two being together. I have only read Season 1)
Kasmeer: This one I can be completely wrong since I’m basing this off memory I think it was mentioned in a dialogue with Braham in the silverwastes S2. Kasmeer is part of a secret Mesmer society. Said society could summon us (Kas and the commander) for an important mission without the others knowing (cheesy cliché!). Also the same thing about the “personal problems” with jory applies too.
Canach: at the end the sylvari mentions that he will report to Countess Anise who will promptly release for his heroic deeds. A potential story arc then would be to keep an eye on the Consortium or a better alternative: join our group.
The “other characters” include Ellen Kiel, Evon Gnashblade, Hero-Tron, and Captain Magnus as well as the Consortium. Sadly I do not these characters in the future of HoT. If anything Magnus could keep an eye (pun intended) on LA while Kiel (with a a handful of lionguard), and Hero-Tron venture into the jungle to assist the Pact with Consortium and Gnashblade along for the ride to make profit….but sadly I don’t see this happening. As far as we know the Consortium is planning something and Evon is keeping an eye on Kiel and Magnus by using Hero-Tron as an unwilling spy.
These are my ideas on “how the story continues”

There is few really nice suggestions.

Also since the pact was crushed we could travel south and maybe get to Elona and learn about Palowa Joko’s rampage. I mean its been 200 years people must be getting tired of him, we could have a rebellion storyline and a baddie that isn’t a dragon,

I tried to think about reasons to go to Cantha but I couldn’t come up with one.
I know the New Emperor is Xenophobic and so the Cantha is tense but I don’t think PC could just go there and tell everyone to shake hands and everyone starts getting along.
Only reason I could think of was someone having a higher claim to thr Canthan throne.
Marjory looks a little bit Canthan, we know her family came to Divinity Reach, but we don’t know when, where from and why.
Also Crusader Hiroki (Human Story, Vigil rep) could be a decent substitute.

My theory currently:

Season 3 will be the season of rebuilding the PACT and each other. I think mos tof season 3 will see this focus on the members of both groups and the PACT repairing, rebuilding, and coming to terms.

Where it goes from there may be all to clear, The egg absorbed some of the magic of Mordremoth and Glints child could easily be born very soon. That is a spike of energy from Glint that Kralkatorrik cannot miss. I will be extremely surprised if Kralkatorrik is not the next dragon.

If that is not the case, the ANET is going for the long haul, and making Kralky the very last dragon, and will be building up the Exalted and Glints progeny.

Theory I made up:

Mordremoth was in control of Caithe and wanted the egg to be brought to Tarir. He had us “kill” him and he went into the egg through the ley lines under Tarir. When the egg hatches it will be Mordremoth but he will have Glint and Forgotten power plus the Exalted will become his minions.

I really hope the story isn’t actually that we just ran into the jungle with no plan and killed Mordremoth when he had so so many ways to stop us. It’s like he’s a Jojo villain if it wasn’t his plan all along.

Only gonna respond to OP:

On suggestion one: Plausible, however not for reasons you say I’d wager. Keep in mind that off-screen the Priory retrieved Zhaitan’s tail and have been running tests on it. So while we don’t see his corpse, the Pact certainly has.

The “fireworks” was only the finishing touch, but the laser, the grappling hooks, and the “fireworks” were all empowered by Gorr’s research and experimental weapons, as well as the laser that took on Tequatl which was in turn improved not only by that encounter but also by Snaff and Kudu’s research on Elder Dragons’ magical energies.

The three weapons the Glory of Tyria had were basically designed for the sole purpose of poisoning Zhaitan’s magic and using that against him. That’s why it was so effective. They used prototypes on risen, found them effective but wanting, improved them off-screen, and used the upgraded versions on Zhaitan himself.

If you take note, you might see how Zhaitan’s body begins to literally fall apart when he’s struck by the grappling hooks (after the laser). His arm just slumps off, skin stretching until it’s just a rotten pile of immobile flesh falling to the ground far below, and one of his largest wings was next – which was why he grabbed onto the tower.

The fight was mechanically sad, but lorically logical.

Re: Orrian royalty and Priests. Keep in mind that every eye we encounter – and not encountering repeats, we encounter at least 10 that I can count off the top of my head- were the kings and queens. So while not many are named out, there’s quite a few. And that doesn’t count any not turned into Eyes, and we don’t know what the Mouths were before death – or what bodies were used to make Abominations, what the Risen Knights and Risen Wraiths were, or what made the undead dragons.

For priests – they were “the last ones”. Maybe Zhaitan saw they fulfilled their roles enough to not raise the others. Perhaps the older ones were simply too far gone – that’s no doubt a huge issue for Zhaitan. He may found no point in animating a pile of bones that were exceedingly brittle.

Re: “a summoned creature should be dead if the summoner is dead”

Not always. In GW1, for example, Necromancer minions remained after the necromancer’s death but they went erratic and would attack anything on sight.

However, it should be noted that risen are not typical undead. They are not “summoned” by any means of the word. All dragon minions are autonomous to the entirety, though intelligence and strength vary with the most common versions being nigh mindless – intelligence and strength seem to be based on the corruption put into them; the more corruption, the stronger and smarter they are.

On Suggestion 2
That would, in all honesty, be a terrible twist. And one I doubt ArenaNet would do. They made it clear from day 1 – and made it clear with HoT – that the PC will ALWAYS be the good guy. No matter what. Even with the rest of their race turned to dragon minions, almost everyone still treated the Pact Commander with the respect of their rank (only like 3 NPCs have I encountered doing otherwise on my sylvari – albeit, I haven’t gotten far at all in the story on that alt).

About Mordremoth “using Trahearne’s voice”. There’s something that I’ve noticed about Mordrem Guard. Simply put: they’re not corrupted by Mordremoth. He whispers into their minds to convince them to do his bidding. But in Act 3 – in the Rata Novus instance, there is a Mordrem Guard underground who reacts like Canach. The Mordrem Guard says that the “voice is quiet here”.

So Mordremoth doesn’t control sylvari – Mordrem Guard or otherwise. He merely convinces them to act.

What’s interesting, however, is their physical change – with Canach it was established in S1 that strong psychological changes could influence their appearance. This is why he looks so different in S2E7’s flashback instance – this is why Caithe looked so different in those flashbacks too, now having Wynne’s hair because killing Wynne was so impactful. The Mordrem Guard are no different – their appearance into “rank and file” copies are due to the psychological change caused by Mordremoth’s mental whisperings – by all indication at least.

So why, then, was Trahearne’s appearance changing? Something to think about. Though it should be noted that he was never all that strong willed during the personal story.

Still, I don’t think Mordremoth took over the Commander. Why? Simple: we couldn’t play the game. It would be a game over.

The Pact Commander has the most invulnerable plot armor there would ever be in a game.

Suggestion 3

We have explored Arah. All of it. It’s called the explorable dungeon. Though the fight with Zhaitan happens over land not in the explorable dungeon, this isn’t in Arah itself but to its east.

It’s possible that the raid will deal with this, one of the theories is that at least. Either way, I don’t think they should bring Zhaitan back full-force right away.

Re: “c. While the player is in progress of attaining ascension to fight off the insidious Mordremoth, perhaps the player might receive a vision from ascendants of the past warning that Abaddon is taking a advantage of the chaos in Tyria/complete absence of the human Gods and is slowly acquiring power to revive himself? Possibility joined by Dhuum and Menzies? This could bring the player to Elona and gather what remains of the Sunspears to take down Palawa Joko and Abaddon.”

Abaddon is dead. He will not return. This has been confirmed by devs many times.

(EDIT: Furthermore, so are the Sunspears gone. Wiped out by Joko centuries ago. Check out The Movement of the World.)

That said, why would Ascension – which allows one to see the spirits hiding in the overlap of Tyria and The Mists – block out Mordremoth’s possession?

Why would Dhuum/Menzies deal with Elona? Why would Abaddon even if he were alive (don’t say Nightfall – the only tie Abaddon had to Elona in Nightfall was Varesh and she’s long dead).

Overall, I don’t like your suggestions as they are. It seems overly cliched and not really working for the story direction that ArenaNet is very clearly going for – and not only that, but wouldn’t work in an MMO setting. This plot might work very well in a single player game where you’re not playing a character you designed personally (aka not an RPG), however.

Always good to have an idea but the writers are normally already penned and ready to go though im sure they would love some fan stories.