Guild Wars 2

I have an Idea for Living story. Suggestion forum is in archive, so im not sure, where I should have created this topic.

So here is an Idea: When u start a new Sylvari character, u meet Caithe in a dream. She somehow entered the dream as a projection. Also we know, that all sylvari knowledge is stored in the dream. So…what if all of Scarlet’s knowledge could have transformed in some form of Ghost Of Scarlet. Mother Tree could help us to enter the dream and talk with Scarlet? Her Ghost would be cleared of corruption and sorry for what she did when she was alive. Scarlet could explain some of her motives to us and give some tips to fight a dragon.

So yeah…If such thing happen > It would be cool Imho.

Biggest issue with this that I see: what about the other races? Or existing characters.

Well. No one mentioned that only sylvari can enter the dream as projection. Plot no Jutsu can accomplish anything. Some asura invention. Or Mother Tree dont mind bringing norn projection into the dream for a time being?

And I didnt mean starting characters. I meant existing characters entering the dream like Caithe did.

I would love this honestly. I adored Scarlet and was sad to see her go—though I realize it was best for her, because it freed her from suffering. On the lighter side of things, she was just a very fun villain, and I loved her shenanigans.

I would love to see the Ghost of Scarlet, and I think Arenanet could make it awesome. She’d still have her wacky off-the-wall personality—like, to the point it would unnerve or frighten the player character—but she’d be corruption free, and as such on our side.

The Pale Tree is able to let any PC into the Dream. See Personal Story step, “A Light in the Darkness” (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_Light_in_the_Darkness).

As I mentioned in my other recent post, “Tension, Conflict, and the other things the LS needs” (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/lwd/Tension-Conflict-and-other-things-LS-Needs/first#post3837681), Scarlet is now the the messiah character of the series. Click on the link and read my post for more details.

I can definitely see her as a sort of Spirit Advisor (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpiritAdvisor) during LS Season 2.

Scarlet is unforgivable. Really, in relation to what she did to so many people across Tyria, absolutely unforgivable. If you make a list of her deeds it looks pretty horrific once you apply real world values.

Scarlet Briar is an overused cardboard cutout, rightfully discarded in an alley dumpster behind a GameStop, bleached by the sun and weakened by the rain until almost nothing recognizable remains. Yet, you would take some fresh paint and recolor the discarded remnants to better suit the alleyway rather than calling the trash company to empty the dumpster? I don’t understand your viewpoint. She’s gone. You should rejoice!

Stooperdale.3560:

Scarlet is unforgivable. Really, in relation to what she did to so many people across Tyria, absolutely unforgivable. If you make a list of her deeds it looks pretty horrific once you apply real world values.

Same could be said about Darth Vader. But he was forgiven in the end.

Elbegast.6970:

Scarlet Briar is an overused cardboard cutout, rightfully discarded in an alley dumpster behind a GameStop, bleached by the sun and weakened by the rain until almost nothing recognizable remains. Yet, you would take some fresh paint and recolor the discarded remnants to better suit the alleyway rather than calling the trash company to empty the dumpster? I don’t understand your viewpoint. She’s gone. You should rejoice!

For me, she is more like unrefined diamond, that lost its chance to shine. Anet killed her with bad writing. But, as I said, there is still a possibility of redemption. Her Ghost might shine a little. It would be Redemption on both sides. In game and in writing.

Sergoros.4398:

For me, she is more like unrefined diamond, that lost its chance to shine. Anet killed her with bad writing. But, as I said, there is still a possibility of redemption. Her Ghost might shine a little. It would be Redemption on both sides. In game and in writing.

That’s what I’m hoping for too! I want to see Scarlet again as a spirit advisor in the mists and/or the Dream.

Elbegast.6970:

Scarlet Briar is an overused cardboard cutout, rightfully discarded in an alley dumpster behind a GameStop, bleached by the sun and weakened by the rain until almost nothing recognizable remains. Yet, you would take some fresh paint and recolor the discarded remnants to better suit the alleyway rather than calling the trash company to empty the dumpster? I don’t understand your viewpoint. She’s gone. You should rejoice!

Speak for yourself. She was a great character! Arenanet messed up on presenting her, but that doesn’t change the fact that beneath some clumsy writing, you have a true gem.
As for a sun-bleached cardboard cutout—I would definitely take some fresh paint to it and make it beautiful. That’s what artists do.

This sounds like an amazing idea!
Scarlet really grew on me in the last updates, and I was also sad when we had to kill her (even though it was the best for everyone). This could also be a great way to get to know more about the dream.
On another note, I really wanted Taimi to actually meet Scarlet. That would be an interesting relationship if Scarlet came back as a ghost.

Yes! All the yeses I have. Take it! I liked Scarlet from the moment she appeared with her twisted machines, but as said before, she was not introduced in a good way. Her character was funny and twisted, yet so many people disliked her before getting to know her background. Personally I was just sitting and waiting for Arenanet to reveal what made Scarlet go cocoo, and the see how many people would empathize with Scarlet afterwards. While everyone else were going “BOO KILL SCARLET”, me and my friend were sitting in a corner going “Wohoo Scarlet!” =P

Hear me out.

Scarlet Briar doesn’t deserve a shot at redemption any more than Miyo Miyazaki did.

Redemption arcs aren’t for everyone, and sometimes it’s much better to have a villain/antagonist who is beyond that rather than to try to redeem/humanize them (for lack of a better term).

Besides, Scarlet needed a different type of redemption – creative redemption. She really needed to be handled better, and she could have been real good.

Sergoros.4398:

For me, she is more like unrefined diamond, that lost its chance to shine. Anet killed her with bad writing. But, as I said, there is still a possibility of redemption. Her Ghost might shine a little. It would be Redemption on both sides. In game and in writing.

I respectfully disagree. The LS has been milled out from start till end that Scarlet, as well as the whole story behind her, was going to improve as the story progressed (this rhetoric has been going on since Aetherpath until the Epilogue).

But to be frank, her character’s development got progressively worse as more of the LS was released, to the point that the last arc (i.e. the grand finale arc) probably introduced numerous plotholes which made Scarlet’s character even messier and more narratively illogical than before.

Scarlet has been in “redeem” mode for quite some time now. And the failure to “fix” her for at least 8 months after her debut has paved the way to a huge poop mountain of bad writing that needs to be corrected. If they failed to improve their writing from start till end, what makes one think that they can make her look better in some small scale plot-hole filler?

Yunigen.2897:

Sergoros.4398:

For me, she is more like unrefined diamond, that lost its chance to shine. Anet killed her with bad writing. But, as I said, there is still a possibility of redemption. Her Ghost might shine a little. It would be Redemption on both sides. In game and in writing.

I respectfully disagree. The LS has been milled out from start till end that Scarlet, as well as the whole story behind her, was going to improve as the story progressed (this rhetoric has been going on since Aetherpath until the Epilogue).

But to be frank, her character’s development got progressively worse as more of the LS was released, to the point that the last arc (i.e. the grand finale arc) probably introduced numerous plotholes which made Scarlet’s character even messier and more narratively illogical than before.

Scarlet has been in “redeem” mode for quite some time now. And the failure to “fix” her for at least 8 months after her debut has paved the way to a huge poop mountain of bad writing that needs to be corrected. If they failed to improve their writing from start till end, what makes one think that they can make her look better in some small scale plot-hole filler?

As we can see, season 1 was more like testing ground. They really improved in quality overall. I still have hopes, that they can deal with ghost scarlet. Also, its way easier to write good characters. She just have to be sorry about all deaths, and hate the dragons. Annnd… she already kind of redeemed. She is dead. She is sorry, and she helps us fight dragon. Not so hard. Almost anyone can write that.

Would be cool if they go discord from mlp way and make her like him, but that would be hoping for to much

Honestly I REALLY hope they don’t redeem scarlet for one kitten good reason.

Antagonists being redeemed is an over-hyped cliche and it offers no real longevity to the character, her death being a mad psychopath was actually the best way for her to go.

She died as she lived, evil to the kitten core.

I am not against redeemable antagonists but Scarlet never strikes me once as being someone that had a redeeming quality, in any form.

I’ll remember that when you your mind is taken over by a elder dragon and are killed later and some one asks to redeem you I’ll just tell them you had nothing worth trying to redeem and tell them to leave you dead

CaptainVanguard.4925:

Honestly I REALLY hope they don’t redeem scarlet for one kitten good reason.

Antagonists being redeemed is an over-hyped cliche and it offers no real longevity to the character, her death being a mad psychopath was actually the best way for her to go.

She died as she lived, evil to the kitten core.

I am not against redeemable antagonists but Scarlet never strikes me once as being someone that had a redeeming quality, in any form.

We still know nothing about her. We dont even know why she did everything she did. For example, why she put portals to her ship after we defeat her knights? What is the reason for her to help you in that? She could have just chilled in her ship, looking at dragon awakening. She helped us to much in this year. There were multiple instances, where she could have killed us, but she didn’t. I still believe, that she was growing heroes to fight the dragon. Think about it. She even called us “My special project”

That I believe that was scarlet, mordremoth’s puppet waring with Ceara, the sylvari who want above all to be independent and choose her own fate
if you noticed through out each of her little schemes there were holes in the defenses that made it quite easy for us to storm in and deal with the problem be it jubilee., tower of nightmares, or the marionette the breachmaker was especially easy to breach since Ceara was nice enough to leave portals for us to use as her last act before her mind was consumed by the dragon corruption leaving behind the sad pathetic shell that was Scarlet
as for grooming us to fight the dragon instead of killing us with the many opportunities she had this is most likely true in case she wasn’t able to complete her plan and put end to the madness that was trying to consume her mind but I believe we were also her fail safe in case her mind was consumed before she completed her plan
which means she knew there was no other outcome then her death which just happen to make us all forget are trivial problems and work together to put end her plans and in essence unite Tyria to fight the dragons which makes her right when she told Caithe that some day Tyria would need her
so she did her part and now it’s time do ours and kill the dragons

i just want her hair style……

Scarlet calling you her special project was a reflection of the fact they created her to be a personal nemesis, her function, her role, was to be the antithesis of the protagonist, not a misunderstood hero in disguise.

Her story was a twisted reflection of yours, if you want redemption, look at it this way.

Her goals, her way of life, her development, all written in her short story, shows that her tale is a tragedy of her dream to know literally everything there is to know, and not being satisfied with what she found out.

She broke herself from the rule of the Pale Tree, only to be a slave, but in that context she redeemed her race by proving there is a great danger from willingly abandoning the Pale Tree, yet ironically, she also doomed the Sylvari by proving that they are in fact NOT immune to dragon corruption, they are simply protected by it by the Pale Tree.

Which in fact makes the Nightmare Court right all along.

What I think has come to pass is that Scarlets actions will eventually allow Dream and Nightmare to bond, as one, in a redemption of harmony, with Faolain and Co exposed to the Dream and able to atone for their losses, while the Nightmare, necessary evil to the Sylvari, serves to act as the antagonizing side of their nature, needed for when times are dire, and action must be taken, however desperate, to destroy the Dragons.

I feel that would be the redemption Scarlet gave, not her own redemption, but as she stated in the short story, she believed both dream and nightmare were wrong, however, she may have inadvertently upset both forces, which may ironically lead them eventually to converging together, against a common enemy.

The Dragon.

I believe that story strongly ties with Caithe and Faolain though, and the eventual redemption of Faolain who honestly had far more pitiable qualities than Scarlet.

Faolain may have done terrible things, but all in all it was all because she truly loves Caithe to the point she would do anything for her.

Even kitten her own soul to torment.

Scarlet on the other hand “had” the chance, she had the chance to change, to redeem herself, she even foresaw what may have been a foreshadowing of the Nightmare/Dream converging, in the form of the Briar that wrapped itself around the Pale Tree, as if it was meant to be apart of it.

This could represent that the Sylvari, are both good and evil, and need both in order to fully exist in this world, and Scarlets vision was not herself, but in fact the nature of the Sylvari as a whole, and that the Pale Tree is afraid to welcome the dark side of Sylvari culture for fear it will corrupt them all.

We will see what the future holds, but for me, I feel that Scarlets future was sealed, she was designed, purposefully to be your nemesis, her revenge against you was for foiling her fun in the Queens Jubelee and upsetting her other minor antagonisms on the world prior to her open reveal.

Sergoros.4398:

Elbegast.6970:

Scarlet Briar is an overused cardboard cutout, rightfully discarded in an alley dumpster behind a GameStop, bleached by the sun and weakened by the rain until almost nothing recognizable remains. Yet, you would take some fresh paint and recolor the discarded remnants to better suit the alleyway rather than calling the trash company to empty the dumpster? I don’t understand your viewpoint. She’s gone. You should rejoice!

For me, she is more like unrefined diamond, that lost its chance to shine. Anet killed her with bad writing. But, as I said, there is still a possibility of redemption. Her Ghost might shine a little. It would be Redemption on both sides. In game and in writing.

There are many core problems with Scarlet’s character. Being overpowered & acting like a “hip evil jokey madman” with the RP cliche: “it wasn’t really her fault!” are the main ones. You can’t fix those without making a different characters. It’s going to be loved by people who buy into that RP fixation, but people who just want a good, solid, GW story, it’s not about that.

Scarlet calling you her special project was a reflection of the fact they created her to be a personal nemesis, her function, her role, was to be the antithesis of the protagonist, not a misunderstood hero in disguise.

Yeah, it was a horrible failure. Unless the purpose was to annoying me out of the story, wonder what the writers were thinking, & make me dislike the entire GW universe that I once loved & was engrossed in.
She’s a classic deviant art RP cliche.

The way I interpreted Scarlet, she was actually trying to fight back against the Elder Dragon that corrupted her. The army she built and the havoc she wrecked actually served to prepare Tyria for the arrival of the dragon. But, in the end, she succumbed to madness. Her efforts to undermine the Elder Dragon, played into its hands . . . claws? I don’t know if Scarlet can be redeemed, but she could certainly reappear in some form later on to give us more insight into her motives and the motives of her master either as a projection in the dream, a holorecording, or notes from her research. Scarlet’s part in the Living Story doesn’t have to end just because she’s gone.

M Steel.2574:

Scarlet’s part in the Living Story doesn’t have to end just because she’s gone.

No, but it probably should. Thematically, anything from this point forward springs forth from her actions so her part is done but will always be impacting the future. There’s no more than that which needs to be left here, we need to get past her for the betterment of the story.

And to keep people from dwelling on the fact she existed at all.

DarksunG.9537:

Sergoros.4398:

Elbegast.6970:

Scarlet Briar is an overused cardboard cutout, rightfully discarded in an alley dumpster behind a GameStop, bleached by the sun and weakened by the rain until almost nothing recognizable remains. Yet, you would take some fresh paint and recolor the discarded remnants to better suit the alleyway rather than calling the trash company to empty the dumpster? I don’t understand your viewpoint. She’s gone. You should rejoice!

For me, she is more like unrefined diamond, that lost its chance to shine. Anet killed her with bad writing. But, as I said, there is still a possibility of redemption. Her Ghost might shine a little. It would be Redemption on both sides. In game and in writing.

There are many core problems with Scarlet’s character. Being overpowered & acting like a “hip evil jokey madman” with the RP cliche: “it wasn’t really her fault!” are the main ones. You can’t fix those without making a different characters. It’s going to be loved by people who buy into that RP fixation, but people who just want a good, solid, GW story, it’s not about that.

Thats how you any many others see her. Overpowered? I wouldn’t say so. Its more like they just made everyone, who have strength on her level to just step back and let her do whatever she wants. Asuras have many op technology. Queen is an op mesmer, who can even create illusion of dragon and make whole army stop breathing. Pale tree can see future to some extent and everyday creates and op army of genetically perfect soldiers. Dunno about chars and norns, but im pretty sure they have some way to deal with Scarlet too. But they just made all this characters step back and let scarlet roam as she wish it. If Lion Arch didnt get idiot ball, they could have just created a trap for scarlet and catch her with easy. But whatever.

Next. Cliche. Almost every fictional character is a cliche. U just have to choose which cliche u like more. Snaff and Zoija? Good and weak genius. Rytlock? Brute with honor. Logan? Knight. Eir? Strong female leader aka “girls could be leaders too!”. We can find cliche for almost every character written. And u know what? I like “hip evil jokey madman” cliche. It adds freshness to this game.

And they dont even need to fix anything. She is already dead. They already failed it as big as possible. All they should do > is finish her story with a good ending. So puzzle would be finally complete. Not a mess, which we have right now.