Guild Wars 2

I was watching the Wooden Potatoes video just now about this subject, and when he was playing the scene with the orbs over and over in slow motion, I realized something:

Each orb that was opposite to the other was basically a ‘counter-balance’.

For example (if we are talking about dragons [could be magic types associated with them as well]):
-Bubbles (water, flowing) was opposite to Jormag (ice, solid).
-Mordremoth (life, growth) was opposite to Zhaitan (death, decay).
-Primordus (molten, bright/heat) was opposite to Kralkatorrik (minerals, dark/cool).
Maybe having 6 dragons & their elements was purposeful.

A small detail I may add is that each time an orb lights up, there was a (magic-representing?) line that flashed from it to the center, and when the orb opposite lit up another line went from it to the center creating a joined line, possibly intentionally showing a connection.

Best part? This hypothesis would get rid of the issue of Zhaitan’s death ‘not influencing the cinematic’ because of the following: perhaps the entire orb scene is showing that, since Zhaitan died, Mordremoth has no counter-balance/element/magic to keep him from over feeding on magic – therefore he is gaining much more power than Zhaitan had ever gained (or any other dragon currently), since he -was- being counterbalanced himself by Mordremoth. Maybe this is where the scene shows the effect of Zhaitan being dead, hence the fact why Mordremoth’s orb takes the center stage and infects the whole system quickly, over all the other orbs (and Tyria if that’s what you think the center represents).

Input?

Johnny Boi.4980:

Each orb that was opposite to the other was basically a ‘counter-balance’.

For example (if we are talking about dragons [could be magic types associated with them as well]):
-Bubbles (water, flowing/liquid) was opposite to Jormag (ice, solitary/solid).
-Mordremoth (life, growth) was opposite to Zhaitan (death, decay).
-Primordus (molten, bright/heat) was opposite to Kralkatorrik (minerals, dark/cool).

All the Elder Dragons seem to be forces of destruction. So it seems especially odd to me that you would portray Mordremoth as representing life and growth. If he represents anything, it would be corruption. Primordus on the other hand is most definitely destruction, where as Kralkatorrik is also destruction. Why would Kralkatorrik, whose powers scorched the land, leaving a visible brand, be considered the cool opposite of Primordus?

I agree Malafide, but if you look at the bare traits of Mordremoth’s element, nature/earth is fundamentally growth and prosperity. I guess in Mordremoth’s own way he gives his minions those traits in corrupting them. New life, new orders under his command (for destruction, not as destruction), and they are given the structures of plants (which grow and thrive). So in his own way it works.
In terms of Primordus, look at it as if he is molten – When molten lava cools it turns into various minerals (Kralkatorrik) dependent on the environment. And vice versa.

It is very true when you look at the bare bones that the elder dragons are definitely all forces of destruction, but if you look deeper and take in the core traits of their actual elements they live on, corrupt with and are even made of – you can see how they do counter each other in these senses. For example, if two humans are attacking each other – one with a flamethrower, the other with a pressure hose – Of course they are both looking to destroy each other (and they are both humans)! But it’s how they do it, and what counters that other person’s tactics you need to really look at.

Johnny Boi.4980:

I agree Malafide, but if you look at the bare traits of Mordremoth’s element, nature/earth is fundamentally growth and prosperity.

How does he represent prosperity? I don’t see it. And even though he is underground now, we don’t see him use earth magic. So does he really represent earth? If anything, things definitely don’t thrive under Mordremoth’s influence. He creates vines that entangle and destroy anything in his path. His powers do not benefit nature.

Johnny Boi.4980:

In terms of Primordus, look at it as if he is molten – When molten lava cools it turns into various minerals (Kralkatorrik)

Lava can turn into crystallized rock. But it doesn’t always, and it doesn’t make up all the crystals. There are many other ways in which crystals can form. Plus, Kralkatorrik also seems to represent lightning. I suppose you could also say that Primordus represents earth, thus being Kralkatorrik’s opposite… but wasn’t Mordremoth earth too? See, this is whole idea is rather shaky.

Johnny Boi.4980:

It is very true when you look at the bare bones that the elder dragons are definitely all forces of destruction, but if you look deeper and take in the core traits of their actual elements they live on, corrupt with and are even made of – you can see how they do counter each other in these senses.

Then why don’t we see them fighting each other?

Johnny Boi.4980:

I was watching the Wooden Potatoes video just now about this subject, and when he was playing the scene with the orbs over and over in slow motion, I realized something:

Each orb that was opposite to the other was basically a ‘counter-balance’.

For example (if we are talking about dragons [could be magic types associated with them as well]):
-Bubbles (water, flowing) was opposite to Jormag (ice, solid).
-Mordremoth (life, growth) was opposite to Zhaitan (death, decay).
-Primordus (molten, bright/heat) was opposite to Kralkatorrik (minerals, dark/cool).
Maybe having 6 dragons & their elements was purposeful.

i would say its like 2 sides and they are parallel arranged:

-Bubbles (aggregate state liquid) <—> Kralkatorrik (aggregate state fixed).
-Mordremoth (growth) <—> Zhaitan (decay).
-Primordus (molten, bright/heat) <—> Jormag (ice, solid).

and since Zaithan is dead, Mordremoth might have more power.

I actually like that idea. Also those two groups makes me think about Primordial Chaos vs Entropy.

While I can understand the premise here, I must pose one important question: How do we know Zhaitan’s dead?

Yes, we kick his teeth in and drop him. Yes, lore states that the undead are retreating and his influence is receding. But we never actually saw him die, and the aftereffects could also be placed on Primordus and the Destroyers after the death of the Great Destroyer. We saw him plummet from the sky in a Hollywood style “I’m dead but I’ll be back for the sequel” style of scene.

I’m firmly of the mind that we simply sent Big Z back in to dormancy and what we’re seeing with Mordy is simply the devastation of his awakening, which seems to be equal in devastation (or gearing up to be equal) to that of Kraik.

Then why don’t we see them fighting each other?

If my hypothesis is correct, we see them “fight each other” in that they don’t allow their opposite dragon to over-feed on magic . Fighting is not always physical!

How does he represent prosperity? I don’t see it. And even though he is underground now, we don’t see him use earth magic. So does he really represent earth?

I didn’t quite mean prosperity (sorry it was almost 4am for me!), but when you think of flowers, they eventually bloom and it is quite a beautiful/intriguing thing. When you look at Mordremoth’s corrupted wolves for example, they are a blooming flower, basically. In that is a somewhat (very) dark beauty, no?

Also, in the CoE dungeon, the first glimpse of Mordremoth we saw was an earth skill called Teeth of Mordremoth – from Subject 6 (which we know represented each dragon). That is why he may be earth related. That and, well, plants need to be grounded to survive!

Lava can turn into crystallized rock.

Can being the key word, still represents it! Also sAdam’s idea would work well here too (Chaos/Entropy).

While I can understand the premise here, I must pose one important question: How do we know Zhaitan’s dead?

Well this theory (if correct) can tell is 1 of 2 things. Either he is in fact dead, which is why Mordremoth’s orb gained so much power over the vision (and Zhaitan’s orb was there to show he played a part in the Eternal Alchemy, rather large one) – Or he is in such an immensely weakened state that he cannot do anything about Mordremoth’s growth. Also this is why he would have been so easy to take down in the personal story, he was still being counterbalanced on top of everything else we did to him. He got too kitteny by coming out first.

Z didn’t awaken first, though. The order of awakening was Primordus, Jormag, Zhaitan, Bubbles, Kralkatorrik, Mordremoth. And it didn’t seem to me that Mordy’s orb gained power. Remember, the NPC heroes mention that they yanked you out of the machine, which potentially ended the vision early. We didn’t see if the other orbs were going to “flash and strike”.

The way I see it, the Mordy orb wasn’t a view of unbalanced power. It’s that Mordy will be the first to actually begin “cleansing” the world in this waking cycle. If the dragons are a true force of nature, they do nothing but destroy, then go dormant and radiate magic (dormant Primordus in the Central Transfer Chamber), they seem more to me like a natural “reboot switch”. Destroy and consume all they can to reset the world for a new cycle of growth and evolution.

In the wooden potatoes video, they analyse the orb wake up order, and considering that the Green orb is Zaithan, the order coincides perfectly with the known order of awakening.
http://youtu.be/5Atrl9JIu_8?t=18m
That’s why I support that the green orb is Zaithan and the last orb is Mord, and the the fact that the Zaithan orb merges with Tyria (considering he is dead) could be a catastrophic event that Scarlet was trying to counteract.

But why would the green orb be Zhaitan when the color correspondence of the dragons was confirmed ages ago and has backing in-game? It makes no sense to the established lore.

@DDCarvalho, go to the Crucible of Eternity … (and the order of the orbs and dragons do not match, because of the process the champs have to complete to waken up a dragon.)

@Johnny Boi, I like this discovery or ‘point of view’, it conveys a certain balance to the system as a whole. And even though in the choice of words it is hard to please all, I can certainly see what you are hinting at …

I may have to borrow this as a system setup feature, and might help me in this thread as well: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Perspective-Dragons-Gods/first#content

The main thing interesting for you in this thread, might be the ‘suggestion’ that one side (left) of the ‘thing’ has Dragons that create their minions (out of water, out of nature, out of magma (fire/earth)); while the other side (right) has Dragons that seem to corrupt to attain their minions (with crystals, from dead, with ice).

I can also see that there is a mirror in the horizontal; both water & magma are flowing, while both crystal & ice are solid. This line of mirroring is then also opposite of eachother: Mordi creates ‘life’ out of already living things (plants), while Zhaitan corrupts the dead to give them ‘life’. Hope you see what I mean there…

feels a bit like Anet released their equivalent of the MtG color-chart/wheel