(edited by Tekey.7946)
The mystery of Ember Bay - why are we there?
I know this doesn’t really help, but Ember Bay used to be directly west of Seis in Malchor’s. They shifted it’s location on the Map because it was messing with the original map art design.
I’m trying to find an older screengrab, I’ll edit this when I have it
EDIT: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Ring_of_Fire_map.jpg
Best I can find on short notice. It’s not quite perfectly west of Seis, but it’s a lot farther north than the new location. My guess, in regards to why the Asura went there, was because it was the easiest and safest location to set up a base camp. Closer to the central volcanoes probably was already completely overrun by Destroyers. To back up my point, the southernmost area of the island appears to be the only portion far enough away from the various calderas and craters to have any greenery on it. I would wager that the islands north of Ember Bay are much more desolate, similar to the crater where Vermingus is.
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“Beware he who would deny you access to information,
for in his heart he dreams himself your master.”
“Beware he who would deny you access to information,
for in his heart he dreams himself your master.”
(edited by UnbentMars.9126)
Seis is the NPC who placed at least five sensors in at least five different areas… and didn’t note their location on a map, relies on the very busy former Pact Commander to find them, and the only tool she offers is a device that offers “warmer|colder” proximity details.
In short, this is not a person who should be relied upon to distinguish “west” from “southwest”. I don’t accept her as a reliable narrator for the purposes of story telling.
As to why the Asura didn’t stop in a northern port of the Fire Islands… I agree that’s an unnecessary gap in the plot. I’m sure that it’s something like what UnbentMars suggested (no safe harbor available), but how hard would it have been to tell us that?
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(edited by Illconceived Was Na.9781)
My guess, in regards to why the Asura went there, was because it was the easiest and safest location to set up a base camp. Closer to the central volcanoes probably was already completely overrun by Destroyers. To back up my point, the southernmost area of the island appears to be the only portion far enough away from the various calderas and craters to have any greenery on it.
Strange that they’ve decided to build their base camp on an island with multiple huge volcanos then. With the greenery argumentation, the most likely place would be directly south of Dragon’s Stand. There’s no craters or volcanos anywhere near that coast and the green parts of Dragon’s Stand are almost connected to the island. It would have been much, much easier to get there from Rata Sum, too.
As to why the Asura didn’t stop in a northern port of the Fire Islands… I agree that’s an unnecessary gap in the plot. I’m sure that it’s something like what UnbentMars suggested (no safe harbor available), but how hard would it have been to tell us that?
As you said they could have let some NPC’s talk about it or the like. Maybe even Taimi herself.
I’m afraid I have to disagree with Na, as there is a very good reason why the Asura might want to avoid the northernmost islands. That being that Abbadon’s Mouth, an extra-dimensional gate, is located on one of those islands. There is also a second bloodstone there as well. Without knowing what might be around it or what might be coming out of it, the Asura likely chose to avoid the risk.
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In short, this is not a person who should be relied upon to distinguish “west” from “southwest”. I don’t accept her as a reliable narrator for the purposes of story telling.
Seis didn’t said we will go west next. She said Primordus moved west. And Primordus is not where we are now.
The place where Seis is:
1 she is still there
2 its orrian harbor
So whathever will she build her own ship or call expedition ship from pact (airship would be anticlimatic), she could travel where orrians traveled, where humans traveled, to the west I fought about that map showing thyria and that continent on the west with sail route that we have never been.
She can go everywhere. Seis you planned to trace primo moves? no, in life things never go as you planned.
Northern shores of fire Island chain and southern shores of maguuma including tarnished coast is where we probably can see some canthans that survived when their ships were destroyed by risen. They definitely avoid fact that now we can sail or waiting for the right moment.
Ember bay have more reasons in devs’ plans of content releases and lore reasons always can be described when they decide to match it.
I’m afraid I have to disagree with Na, as there is a very good reason why the Asura might want to avoid the northernmost islands. That being that Abbadon’s Mouth, an extra-dimensional gate, is located on one of those islands. There is also a second bloodstone there as well. Without knowing what might be around it or what might be coming out of it, the Asura likely chose to avoid the risk.
I’m still wondering why we didn’t hear anything about it in the game itself. There’s only Cami’s Journal saying:
“The Ring of Fire Islands is known for its entrance to the Realm of Torment. That’s on a different island—not this one, thank goodness. I wonder if it’s still accessible. What a dig that would be!”
The Door of Komalie and the Bloodstone are both located on the island in the middle. Depending on where you are on the western island, the distance to it is the same as to Ember Bay. Also, there’s no indication of activity referring to the Real of Torment and we don’t even know if it’s still accessible after the collapse in gw1. We’re there because of Primordus and the crew couldn’t know where he is (could have been Ember Bay, too).
Plus they had a much higher risk of getting shipwrecked by making this detour around the rocky islands.
(edited by Tekey.7946)
The last time someone tried delving directly into enemy territory when dealing with a dragon the Pact got a lovely dose of surprise vines up their tailpipes. Seems reasonable that they’d avoid a direct route and get to an area closer to the outskirts. They may not know where Primordous is exactly, but they can probably guess that he’s more likely to be inland and probably closer to the central areas of magical energy than on the coastline.
Also possible the interference from the magic building in the area plays a part. Even down in Ember Bay, the first thing you hear from Taimi’s krewe is that there’s a lot of magical interference in the area (rendering your communicator with Taimi inoperable). So perhaps on the more northern islands there’s even more magic at play which would render even an Asura gate useless or unstable. Which would leave them cut off and vulnerable, especially with communications down.
The last time someone tried delving directly into enemy territory when dealing with a dragon the Pact got a lovely dose of surprise vines up their tailpipes. Seems reasonable that they’d avoid a direct route and get to an area closer to the outskirts. They may not know where Primordous is exactly, but they can probably guess that he’s more likely to be inland and probably closer to the central areas of magical energy than on the coastline.
Also possible the interference from the magic building in the area plays a part. Even down in Ember Bay, the first thing you hear from Taimi’s krewe is that there’s a lot of magical interference in the area (rendering your communicator with Taimi inoperable). So perhaps on the more northern islands there’s even more magic at play which would render even an Asura gate useless or unstable. Which would leave them cut off and vulnerable, especially with communications down.
While there are many possible reasons to avoid one or another island, we’re still not sure which one of them is correct. And that is a problem referring to the story.
First of all, to me, it’s been disappointing to go through a portal which the crew already set up. Somehow it took away the great feeling of getting a new region – I would have loved to see our characters arriving with a ship and exploring the unknown island for the first time ever (adventure). It’s like setting the first step on the moon.
Okay, now we’re in Ember Bay. But wait – I’ll take a quick look on the map – Rata Sum -> Ember Bay. Why the heck are we here? As players, we now know that now there’s more to come on the other islands. But with regards to the story – and with the information we got while talking to the NPC’s – our characters have no clue why they’re actually there.
Sending you through a portal to a random island without any explanation why you’re there? Is that the right way? I’m sure they could have thought of something else without spoiling the complete plot of the upcoming episodes.
We are there to gather samples and information about the new destroyers after the asura already there got into trouble.
Why did the asura pick that place? I’m sure they have their reasons. Did you expect to be consulted or informed about everything?
We are there to gather samples and information about the new destroyers after the asura already there got into trouble.
Why did the asura pick that place? I’m sure they have their reasons. Did you expect to be consulted or informed about everything?
If that’s everything we can say about it… they had their reasons. That’s clearly how to write a good story. You could expect the story departement to think of something to explain the situation.
We now know that the other islands are more dangerous than Ember Bay because Anet chose it to be the first island (they wouldn’t start off with the most dangerous island).
But how did the asuran crew know about it?
(edited by Tekey.7946)
Maybe they had a look around the place?
Do you really expect every NPCs decision to be justified and every last one of their actions uncovered in minute exposition?
In a fictional world with any verisimilitude to it at all, things happening when our characters aren’t present should be the norm, not the exception.
Maybe they had a look around the place?
Do you really expect every NPCs decision to be justified and every last one of their actions uncovered in minute exposition?
In a fictional world with any verisimilitude to it at all, things happening when our characters aren’t present should be the norm, not the exception.
We’ve been over 4 years on the same continent – and then they skip exactly the part of how we got to the islands? We’re not talking about small details like Taimi wearing a new outfit. It’s a major part of the story and they didn’t explain it.
Plus, referring to your NPC’s-can-do-whatever-they-want-to-in-our-absence argument: They didn’t have to send them ahead. They could have let our characters be the first ones going to the Fire Islands (escorting the crew). They decide which part of the story is contained and how it is told. They can cover everything if they want to.
But they decided just to send us through the portal – it’s easier, faster and no one will wonder why our ship started in Rata Sum and ended up being in Ember Bay.
Maybe they had a look around the place?
Do you really expect every NPCs decision to be justified and every last one of their actions uncovered in minute exposition?
In a fictional world with any verisimilitude to it at all, things happening when our characters aren’t present should be the norm, not the exception.
We’ve been over 4 years on the same continent – and then they skip exactly the part of how we got to the islands? We’re not talking about small details like Taimi wearing a new outfit. It’s a major part of the story and they didn’t explain it.
I know you’re playing it off as a minor point, but Taimi’s not the only one whose changed outfits. Marjory sported a new look at the start of Season 3 as well. Not to mention I’ve changed my armor a time or two. Sometimes, I just want different stats, or I was stuck with Masterwork until I found either a rare of the right class or grinded the appropriate crafting skill.
Plus, referring to your NPC’s-can-do-whatever-they-want-to-in-our-absence argument: They didn’t have to send them ahead. They could have let our characters be the first ones going to the Fire Islands (escorting the crew). They decide which part of the story is contained and how it is told. They can cover everything if they want to.
But they decided just to send us through the portal – it’s easier, faster and no one will wonder why our ship started in Rata Sum and ended up being in Ember Bay.
Name one location where the player character arrived at before any other PC. Maybe Rata Novus, but even there, we see some stray investigators doing research on it and just happen to be exploring somewhere else while we’re turning the city back on. It’s normal for the maps to be populated upon our arrival. Just try to accept that and move on.
ps. If you weren’t the one arguing against the handwaiving of how everyone got set up on Ember Bay, I apologise. Your post was just the best at hand.
Name one location where the player character arrived at before any other PC. Maybe Rata Novus, but even there, we see some stray investigators doing research on it and just happen to be exploring somewhere else while we’re turning the city back on. It’s normal for the maps to be populated upon our arrival. Just try to accept that and move on.
ps. If you weren’t the one arguing against the handwaiving of how everyone got set up on Ember Bay, I apologise. Your post was just the best at hand.
I hope you also read the initial thread, my last comment was just an example of what they could have done. I don’t need to be the first one on the Fire Islands, I can live with that.
But I can’t accept that the story as it is right now doesn’t make any sense. Taking a ship from Rata Sum and arriving on the southernmost island is completely illogical unless it’s explained in the story. The whole thread is about this one single question: Why did the asuran crew avoid the nearest island (from Rata Sum) and go to Ember Bay instead?
Once more, here’s the map: Rata Sum – Ember Bay
We already had some speculation going on but they gave us no official information.
Name one location where the player character arrived at before any other PC. Maybe Rata Novus, but even there, we see some stray investigators doing research on it and just happen to be exploring somewhere else while we’re turning the city back on. It’s normal for the maps to be populated upon our arrival. Just try to accept that and move on.
ps. If you weren’t the one arguing against the handwaiving of how everyone got set up on Ember Bay, I apologise. Your post was just the best at hand.
I hope you also read the initial thread, my last comment was just an example of what they could have done. I don’t need to be the first one on the Fire Islands, I can live with that.
But I can’t accept that the story as it is right now doesn’t make any sense. Taking a ship from Rata Sum and arriving on the southernmost island is completely illogical unless it’s explained in the story. The whole thread is about this one single question: Why did the asuran crew avoid the nearest island (from Rata Sum) and go to Ember Bay instead?
Once more, here’s the map: Rata Sum – Ember Bay
We already had some speculation going on but they gave us no official information.
The explanation is in the name of the area. Where other to land a ship than a bay? Bays are historically the places where overseas settlements start. No one, ever, thought it would be a good idea to sail off in a straight line and settle at the first place they encountered. Ships skirted the coastline until a hospital place was discovered. And what do you know? Bays are that.
Name one location where the player character arrived at before any other PC. Maybe Rata Novus, but even there, we see some stray investigators doing research on it and just happen to be exploring somewhere else while we’re turning the city back on. It’s normal for the maps to be populated upon our arrival. Just try to accept that and move on.
ps. If you weren’t the one arguing against the handwaiving of how everyone got set up on Ember Bay, I apologise. Your post was just the best at hand.
I hope you also read the initial thread, my last comment was just an example of what they could have done. I don’t need to be the first one on the Fire Islands, I can live with that.
But I can’t accept that the story as it is right now doesn’t make any sense. Taking a ship from Rata Sum and arriving on the southernmost island is completely illogical unless it’s explained in the story. The whole thread is about this one single question: Why did the asuran crew avoid the nearest island (from Rata Sum) and go to Ember Bay instead?
Once more, here’s the map: Rata Sum – Ember Bay
We already had some speculation going on but they gave us no official information.
The explanation is in the name of the area. Where other to land a ship than a bay? Bays are historically the places where overseas settlements start. No one, ever, thought it would be a good idea to sail off in a straight line and settle at the first place they encountered. Ships skirted the coastline until a hospital place was discovered. And what do you know? Bays are that.
That’d be a good argument if they still used water-bound ships. But pretty much everyone uses airships now. The Asura especially would. The straight line might still not be a good idea over volatile calderas, but their options are still a LOT less limited. Combine that with the fact that airships don’t seem to need to land to dock anywhere, worrying about bays is pretty much a thing of the past.
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I’m just responding to Tekey’s notion that they used a ship. I don’t know if their means of conveyance was actually mentioned anywhere. Anyway, airships and construction crews probably fare better in the calm of a bay as well.
I’m pretty sure most of the airships we had were destroyed in the attack on Mordremoth, and there are only a handful left, like Almorra’s. We’re not quite at the point where every well to do family has their own airship, and making more is probably an expensive proposition. I’m betting that the asura teams took regular boats south from Rata Sum to the Ring of Fire and found the southernmost island to be the most permissive to land on. Plus, it kind of harkens back to Guild Wars 1 days, where the only human outpost on the islands was Ember Light Camp in the southeastern tip of the southernmost island.
If you’re looking for a completely intact narrative explaining all the reasonings of every character as to why they’re doing things, you’re playing the wrong game. Hopefully, we will explore the rest of the Fire Islands soon, but for now, we have a stable camp and the asura gate is assembled and seemingly stable, so we can get people and supplies in and out. There was no guarantee that would happen at any other place in the chain. Perhaps the gates are much like waypoints, and need leyline magic to help support and stabilize them.
Plus, it kind of harkens back to Guild Wars 1 days, where the only human outpost on the islands was Ember Light Camp in the southeastern tip of the southernmost island.
Ember Bay in GW2 is different to the Ember Light Camp in GW1 – The Light Camp was pretty much in the center of the Ring of Fire. Whereas Ember Bay (GW2) didn’t even exist back then and is really the southernmost point. They added this island afterwards.
If you’re looking for a completely intact narrative explaining all the reasonings of every character as to why they’re doing things, you’re playing the wrong game.
Wow, that’s not much faith you have in the narrative team of GW2. But again – I don’t care about which asura built the portal, which one set up the waipoints and the like. I’m talking about the basics of a story: how did we get to an unknown place, far far away from home. Every fairy tail deals with that, so I’m sure they can do that, too.
Hopefully, we will explore the rest of the Fire Islands soon, but for now, we have a stable camp and the asura gate is assembled and seemingly stable, so we can get people and supplies in and out. There was no guarantee that would happen at any other place in the chain. Perhaps the gates are much like waypoints, and need leyline magic to help support and stabilize them.
And that leads to two other points someone else already pointed out, I’ll quote the guildwiki:
- The longer the distance between the two points, the more energy required for the process.
Meaning, it would have been easier to set up a gate on the other islands because of the shorter distance.
- Because of the extreme expense and effort involved, asura gates are rarely retuned.
That referrs to the gate we went through in the dragon lab. It’s confusing how fast it could switch between the different rooms in Rata Novus and the Fire Islands (Windall coming through). Without seeing Taimi retuning the portal. Does it have multiple destinations at the same time?
Wow, that’s not much faith you have in the narrative team of GW2. But again – I don’t care about which asura built the portal, which one set up the waipoints and the like. I’m talking about the basics of a story: how did we get to an unknown place, far far away from home. Every fairy tail deals with that, so I’m sure they can do that, too.
We got there through a portal made by asura.
A group of asura that have absolutely nothing to do with us went to a place and put that gate there. A group that has neither obligation nor the merest shred of interest in sharing anything with us. Once that gate is firmly established, we are brought in because of some troubles better addressed by people that excel at swinging big sticks at monsters than those that build gates and wave bleeping thingamajiggers at weird stuff.
We got there through a portal made by asura.
A group of asura that have absolutely nothing to do with us went to a place and put that gate there.
And that’s the missing part. Why did they choose the furthermost island? Why did they avoid the nearest island and made a detour that takes days to get there? Just for fun? Sure, that makes sense.
A group that has neither obligation nor the merest shred of interest in sharing anything with us.
Cami’s journal told us about her arrival and experiences on the islands. The crew doesn’t have to know us to explain what happened. Anet has endless possibilities to give us information. But they didn’t.
Until it’s explained in the upcoming episodes (they already checked the island, didn’t find a place to land,…) it remains being a confusing plot hole.
(edited by Tekey.7946)
We got there through a portal made by asura.
A group of asura that have absolutely nothing to do with us went to a place and put that gate there.
And that’s the missing part. Why did they choose the furthermost island? Why did they avoid the nearest island and made a detour that takes days to get there? Just for fun? Sure, that makes sense.
Blame Taimi. She sent the initial team, and probably decided the location based on the pools of ley energy. Or maybe Phlunt decided on the actual portal location. Only the Eternal Alchemy can explain why he positioned his teams where they are.
As for my faith in the narrative team, I trust that they will lead us from point A to point B. I don’t need to be explained how Players X, Y and Z are already there waiting for us, when even in every other map released, they’ve had the maps populated long before our character can get anywhere near it. The Silverwastes had Camp Resolve set up the instant Fort Vandal was abandoned. Dry Top had the Town of Prosperity before even the Zephyrites crashed there. Even Orr and Maguuma was populated with Pact members long before we were ready to go there. So no, I don’t really expect an explanation why Ember Bay was chosen if you’ve rejected all the seemingly reasonable explanations offered so far.
As for my faith in the narrative team, I trust that they will lead us from point A to point B. I don’t need to be explained how Players X, Y and Z are already there waiting for us, when even in every other map released, they’ve had the maps populated long before our character can get anywhere near it.
This is not about the maps being populated before we arrived. If you read the first post, you’d know I’m just concerned about the geographical point.
Even Orr and Maguuma was populated with Pact members long before we were ready to go there. So no, I don’t really expect an explanation why Ember Bay was chosen if you’ve rejected all the seemingly reasonable explanations offered so far.
It’s not about the population. The order of the Maguuma maps made sense. We were going deeper into the jungle, starting in Brisban Wildlands -> Silverwastes -> Verdant Brink. Going directly to Ember Bay (avoiding the other islands) is like going from Brisban Wildlands to Dragon’s Stand, skipping every map in between. Maybe now you know what I’m talking about.
Plus, player speculation won’t replace a missing part of the story. Everyone brought up different reasons why they could have chosen Ember Bay. Is that a satisfying result? Should I accept the they-had-their-reasons statement?
I don’t want the players to find a reason, I want Anet to implement it in the story as it is meant to be.
It looks like the mystery has been solved. And primordisu would’ve gotten away with it, too, if it weren’t for us meddling kids!