Guild Wars 2

Ok….I’ll start off with the positive… The STORY itself is better and mildly interesting, but the dialogue and character development is juvenile in the extreme. This group that we are hanging around with is just the saddest bunch of npc’s I have ever had the misfortune to “party” with in all my years of playing MMO’s and RPG’s.

First off Belinda. I mean, I wrote spoilers in the title but honestly, who gives a complete crap about this nothing character dying? My only wish was that she took the rest of the no marks with her. Also, how the HECK is that dumb Bimbo Kasmeer supposed to be some sort of super Mesmer? Not to mention the kitten hiccups again. It’s not cool and it’s not funny and it doesn’t make her “speshul”…it’s just cringe worthy.

Then there is Braham with his kitten leg. He’s a GUARDIAN for God’s sake…He can’t heal himself?? Either way, I am sick of hearing about it…Never seen a Norn act like such a wimp. Rox is merely relegated to bystander status which as a Ranger in this game, she should be used too I suppose. It’s a wonder they don’t boot her from the group for not bringing spotter and frost spirit.

The only character who has any kind of depth is Taimi I guess…but they are doing a good job of making an initially sympathetic character of being extremely precocious and annoying.

The point is, although the plot itself is getting better…the dialogue and the characters are by and large pretty terrible. I’m reading that people are saying Oh Anet I was blown away…Like wtf?? IS this the only game you have ever played in your life??? I say this with all sincerity, Anet could do a LOT worse than look at Bioware games for how to create characters and situations we care about…2 or 3 hours of Baldurs gate has more emotion and empathy in it than the entire season 1 and 2 so far of living story combined.

So for this patch I give it 6.5/10 …Getting better..but..ya Know…

So, I’m going to speak for the majority (which I may or may not be a part of) and say:

Your argument is unsubstantiated, your wit is dry, your opinion- yes, your opinion- is unpopular, and you should probably feel bad for berating the character development of others; especially fictional characters.

It just shows what kind of person you are and it’s not a flattering reveal. But, on a personal note: I’m happy to see a healthy minority- critics are necessary.

Well, by the way it’s phrased, it’s much less so argument than opinion, and one does not have to substantiate opinion. What you have said in return is similarly mostly opinion (except for the statement about speaking for the majority, which is similarly unsubstantiated).

I think it’s usually a mistake to try to argue against opinion on the internet; nothing good ever comes out of it.

BlameAmes.3581:

So, I’m going to speak for the majority (which I may or may not be a part of) and say:

Your argument is unsubstantiated, your wit is dry, your opinion- yes, your opinion- is unpopular, and you should probably feel bad for berating the character development of others; especially fictional characters.

It just shows what kind of person you are and it’s not a flattering reveal. But, on a personal note: I’m happy to see a healthy minority- critics are necessary.

You speak for you

Was I the only person who felt sarcasm in BlameAmes post?

I think the characters aren’t what people are praising. Generally speaking, at least. The characters are bland, although IMO the VAs of Kasmeer and Taimi do a good job considering the lines they’re given. However, the environmental design of the new zone is top-notch. It’s one of the prettiest places I’ve seen in a video game.

If you care about characters and dialogue, this patch is far from great, but many of us don’t. I care in some cases, but frankly I’ve given up on GW2’s writing already, so the not-awful quality of the release is a positive surprise. I just play for the exploration and combat. It’d great to have Torment-quality – or at least BG2-quality – writing on top on that, but it’s not mandatory.

Having seen much worse writing in games (Diablo 3, anyone?), I am withholding judgement until we see further developments in Season 2. Retconning is a fact in this field, and I’ll need to see more of how the Anet team handles it before I can judge it fairly. It’s never going to be possible for them to please everybody, after all.

Mitch.4781:

Then there is Braham with his kitten leg. He’s a GUARDIAN for God’s sake…He can’t heal himself?? Either way, I am sick of hearing about it…Never seen a Norn act like such a wimp.

he never did such a thing. whenever rox talks about his leg he says he is alright. so you need to read and listen more carefully.
who ever said you need to care about Belinda? or any NPC?

Underdark.3726:

Mitch.4781:

Then there is Braham with his kitten leg. He’s a GUARDIAN for God’s sake…He can’t heal himself?? Either way, I am sick of hearing about it…Never seen a Norn act like such a wimp.

he never did such a thing. whenever rox talks about his leg he says he is alright. so you need to read and listen more carefully.
who ever said you need to care about Belinda? or any NPC?

I read and listened to everything…painful as it was. Do you think it’s Anet’s intention to create characters that we don’t give a crap about? You sound really enlightened…maybe you should join the writing team….

I accept gw2 story for what it is – lighthearted fantasy. Yes there are occasionally some heavy themes, but overall it is still lighthearted and easily accessed by players of all ages and backgrounds.

Because of this I do not expect writing, dialogue or characters along the lines of something from deus ex or mass effect among other things.

I enjoy the characters for what they are and IMO it works fairly well.

Mitch.4781:

Ok….I’ll start off with the positive… The STORY itself is better and mildly interesting, but the dialogue and character development is juvenile in the extreme. This group that we are hanging around with is just the saddest bunch of npc’s I have ever had the misfortune to “party” with in all my years of playing MMO’s and RPG’s.

They’re still a ways ahead of Destiny Edge, combat wise anyway. I’ve seen worse NPCs in other games.

First off Belinda. I mean, I wrote spoilers in the title but honestly, who gives a complete crap about this nothing character dying? My only wish was that she took the rest of the no marks with her. Also, how the HECK is that dumb Bimbo Kasmeer supposed to be some sort of super Mesmer? Not to mention the kitten hiccups again. It’s not cool and it’s not funny and it doesn’t make her “speshul”…it’s just cringe worthy.

There have already been legitimate complaints about how stupid and contrived Belinda’s death was, from how predictable it was (save for the timing) to how it happened before we could really get to know her at all, and thus not care.

Kasmeer’s only superpowers at the time involved having barely/no cooldown on her Time Warp/Feedbacks, as well as having a more phantasms out then a player mesmer can do (Countess Anise and possibly Queen Jennah have already pulled the latter trick before as well). If she were a super reality haxor mesmer, she’d summon dozens of Illusionary berserkers to slice all the Mordrem, including the boss, into shreds in a matter of seconds.

(And now I’m going to have the image of Kasmeer going Super Saiyan and screaming for half an eternity stuck in my head for a few minutes. -_- )

Strangely enough, you forgot about Marjory’s bone bridge, or her deluxe sized bone minions that were integral to taking down the boss, or her ability to use Necrotic Traversal without summoning a flesh wurm first. Or does that not count towards making her a super necromancer?

Then there is Braham with his kitten leg. He’s a GUARDIAN for God’s sake…He can’t heal himself?? Either way, I am sick of hearing about it…Never seen a Norn act like such a wimp.

Only Rox continually brings up the leg injury (the other characters might mention it once or twice, but only Rox consistently worries over it), and Braham constantly insists he’s fine, and even if he still has the injury (As Rox implies at the Concordia instance), he doesn’t let it hinder him at all.

Aside from having a slightly silly haircut and being a little bland compared to other notable norn in the past (Beigarth, Forgal, Apatia, and others I can’t name right now), Braham is still okay character wise (aside from being Eir’s son, due to stupid writing), and is by no means a wimp.

Rox is merely relegated to bystander status which as a Ranger in this game, she should be used too I suppose. It’s a wonder they don’t boot her from the group for not bringing spotter and frost spirit.

She still fights alongside the group like everyone else, and only get regulated to bystander partway through the Concordia instance (if you chose Braham to go with you during the search for survivors).

The only character who has any kind of depth is Taimi I guess…but they are doing a good job of making an initially sympathetic character of being extremely precocious and annoying.

That….I will agree on. Right now she’s mainly exposition, as well as being the resident genius/hacker of the group, though it fits for an asura. Still, her actions near the end could have dire consequences later on, so I am wary of her.

The point is, although the plot itself is getting better…the dialogue and the characters are by and large pretty terrible. I’m reading that people are saying Oh Anet I was blown away…Like wtf?? IS this the only game you have ever played in your life??? I say this with all sincerity, Anet could do a LOT worse than look at Bioware games for how to create characters and situations we care about…2 or 3 hours of Baldurs gate has more emotion and empathy in it than the entire season 1 and 2 so far of living story combined.

So for this patch I give it 6.5/10 …Getting better..but..ya Know…

While I don’t have quite the…vitriol (probably the wrong word to use) towards the story/characters as you do, I mostly agree with your concluding analysis. It’s getting better, but still has a ways to go. I have a slight urge to see what happens next (specifically to our character now that they’ve had the “vision” as well), but not much else.

Mitch.4781:

BlameAmes.3581:

So, I’m going to speak for the majority (which I may or may not be a part of) and say:

Your argument is unsubstantiated, your wit is dry, your opinion- yes, your opinion- is unpopular, and you should probably feel bad for berating the character development of others; especially fictional characters.

It just shows what kind of person you are and it’s not a flattering reveal. But, on a personal note: I’m happy to see a healthy minority- critics are necessary.

You speak for you

Indeed, speak for yourself BlameAmes, most of the people I know dislike the writing.

The overall story is intriguing but the actual characterizations and interactions are quite sub-par and occasionally atrocious. Still an improvement over last season though.

Mitch.4781:

Then there is Braham with his kitten leg. He’s a GUARDIAN for God’s sake…He can’t heal himself?? Either way, I am sick of hearing about it…Never seen a Norn act like such a wimp.

So you complain about the writing but clearly haven’t been paying attention.

Braham is the one insisting he’s fine and wanting to go in and fight and not sit back and let other people do it for him. Rox is the one complaining.

So, I mean, unless you think it’s wimpy to go into combat on an (potentially) injured leg, then he’s not acting like a wimp at all.

Kind of hard to take any of your other complaints seriously after that.

Edit: Also, going by your logic of “game mechanics say they can do this, so they should do it”, Belinda shouldn’t be dead because revives and waypoints, and Taimi shouldn’t be crippled because condition removal.

Tanith.5264:

Having seen much worse writing in games (Diablo 3, anyone?), I am withholding judgement until we see further developments in Season 2. Retconning is a fact in this field, and I’ll need to see more of how the Anet team handles it before I can judge it fairly. It’s never going to be possible for them to please everybody, after all.

Diablo was never known for it’s incredibly story telling, the franchise’s greatest strangth (imo) is atmosphere and gameplay. Diablo 3 kinda lacked a bit of atmosphere in the vanilla release (compared to D1 and D2) but the expansion did a lot better.

Personally I kind of enjoyed the follower quest lines. Some of it was cliché, some of it wasn’t great but there was some good stuff in there (Shen was probably the highlight). The follower quests worked for me because they were kind of optional, you chose to engage or not, they never interfered or slowed your progress down like the stuff in Living Story (less is more).

Probably the best RPG character stories I’ve seen were in Baldur’s Gate 2. You chose your party which was a big boon. If you didn’t like Minsc and Boo (what kind of monster are you?) you could leave them behind and bring Jaheira. Your choices resulted in romances (not just your own), moral arguments and lots of personal side quests. You choose how much or how little you want to engage in and you don’t hear about Braham’s broken leg from March through to July (in a land full of healing magic, that’s five months). Too bad you can’t do Baldur’s Gate stories in GW2.

Filaha.1678:

Mitch.4781:

Then there is Braham with his kitten leg. He’s a GUARDIAN for God’s sake…He can’t heal himself?? Either way, I am sick of hearing about it…Never seen a Norn act like such a wimp.

So you complain about the writing but clearly haven’t been paying attention.

Braham is the one insisting he’s fine and wanting to go in and fight and not sit back and let other people do it for him. Rox is the one complaining.

So, I mean, unless you think it’s wimpy to go into combat on an (potentially) injured leg, then he’s not acting like a wimp at all.

Kind of hard to take any of your other complaints seriously after that.

Hilarious how people try and point what I haven’t been paying attention to while clearing ignoring what I wrote. I NEVER talked about Braham directly complaining about is leg…I said then there is Braham with his leg…Did you see that?? It’s right up there in the quote you posted! I was talking in general terms. His OVERALL persona is that of a brow beaten emasculated male….which is ironic considering the Norn are supposed to be noble and strong warriors. Either way your point is friggin irrelevant.

And by the way …of course, cos he says he is fine, he must be…. Sweet Jesus..

Mitch.4781:

Filaha.1678:

Mitch.4781:

Then there is Braham with his kitten leg. He’s a GUARDIAN for God’s sake…He can’t heal himself?? Either way, I am sick of hearing about it…Never seen a Norn act like such a wimp.

So you complain about the writing but clearly haven’t been paying attention.

Braham is the one insisting he’s fine and wanting to go in and fight and not sit back and let other people do it for him. Rox is the one complaining.

So, I mean, unless you think it’s wimpy to go into combat on an (potentially) injured leg, then he’s not acting like a wimp at all.

Kind of hard to take any of your other complaints seriously after that.

Hilarious how people try and point what I haven’t been paying attention to while clearing ignoring what I wrote. I NEVER talked about Braham directly complaining about is leg…I said then there is Braham with his leg…Did you see that?? It’s right up there in the quote you posted! I was talking in general terms. His OVERALL persona is that of a brow beaten emasculated male….which is ironic considering the Norn are supposed to be noble and strong warriors. Either way your point is friggin irrelevant.

And by the way …of course, cos he says he is fine, he must be…. Sweet Jesus..

In general, he’s acting like a wimp by…
Rushing headfirst into combat on a potentially injured leg?

Clearly wimpy. He should grow a pair like the real men who sit on forums complaining about fictional characters.

Also, nobody’s ignoring what you wrote. But what you think you wrote and what you actually wrote are two different things. If you weren’t meaning to suggest that he was acting like a wimp because of his leg, then you certainly got it across poorly by putting your wimp comment immediately after complaining about his leg.

Again, hard to take your criticisms seriously when you can’t even get across your own complaints.

OP is nitpicking at little details and making them seem like dealbreakers.

Guess what? All good stories have weak areas. Doesn’t mean it’s a terrible story overall.

Game of Thrones is the best TV show and the ASOIAF books are highly acclaimed, even though there are small writing holes.

Filaha.1678:

Mitch.4781:

Filaha.1678:

Mitch.4781:

Then there is Braham with his kitten leg. He’s a GUARDIAN for God’s sake…He can’t heal himself?? Either way, I am sick of hearing about it…Never seen a Norn act like such a wimp.

So you complain about the writing but clearly haven’t been paying attention.

Braham is the one insisting he’s fine and wanting to go in and fight and not sit back and let other people do it for him. Rox is the one complaining.

So, I mean, unless you think it’s wimpy to go into combat on an (potentially) injured leg, then he’s not acting like a wimp at all.

Kind of hard to take any of your other complaints seriously after that.

Hilarious how people try and point what I haven’t been paying attention to while clearing ignoring what I wrote. I NEVER talked about Braham directly complaining about is leg…I said then there is Braham with his leg…Did you see that?? It’s right up there in the quote you posted! I was talking in general terms. His OVERALL persona is that of a brow beaten emasculated male….which is ironic considering the Norn are supposed to be noble and strong warriors. Either way your point is friggin irrelevant.

And by the way …of course, cos he says he is fine, he must be…. Sweet Jesus..

In general, he’s acting like a wimp by…
Rushing headfirst into combat on a potentially injured leg?

Clearly wimpy. He should grow a pair like the real men who sit on forums complaining about fictional characters.

Also, nobody’s ignoring what you wrote. But what you think you wrote and what you actually wrote are two different things. If you weren’t meaning to suggest that he was acting like a wimp because of his leg, then you certainly got it across poorly by putting your wimp comment immediately after complaining about his leg.

Again, hard to take your criticisms seriously when you can’t even get across your own complaints.

No…just cos the point flew over your head, doesn’t mean I didn’t get across my own complaints. Nor does it make the other points I made any less valid. If you disagree with them, that’s your prerogative, but saying “Oh I can’t take your criticism seriously” through your own misunderstanding is your problem..not mine. Either way I care about as much for your incoherent rebuttle as I did Belinda kickin the bucket.

Good advices were taken in terms of giving the characters some drama and hardships. I think many people pointed that out in LS1, me included, that you have to go a bit deeper, do more characterization if you really want to press these NPCs so much. Not really that you have to kill Belinda, but of course it’s one of the ways to do somethig, anything, that changes anything and makes these characters have an actual story arc.

So I was really happy seeing the death scene, for like a few seconds, until I heard the absolutely terrible dialogue that happned after it. So I lost hope currently.

Now I’m just covinced that the writer for these dialogues is just simply not qualified to write for an AAA game, and that’s all.

As long as the dialogue stays like this, I think it doesn’t matter how much of a good job everyone else does. It’s like having the Benny Hill music instead of Hans Zimmer in a movie. And it’s sad because I want to shake hands with person who did the Eternal Alchemy animation sequence and smile into his face and say “That was amazing, bro.”

Hi everyone,

Since this discussion couldn’t stay constructive and derailed into inflammatory exchanges, we’ll now close it. Please keep in mind that we welcome every feedback on this forum as long as it is written in a polite and respectful way.

Thank you for your understanding.