Guild Wars 2

Is it me or have any of you are getting the feeling that Menzies the Mad, also known as the Lord of Destruction is involve pulling the strings on this Scarlet villain? His minions are known as Nightmares… could there be a connection?

In GW1 this God Menzies had a pact with Dhuum and even Abbadon, they help each other to bring ruin to the other Gods, could we be seeing the return of this Fallen Gods in GW2?!

For me it be the perfect climax or ultimate plot for the living world, I mean what race would not want a Trinity of GODs (even if their evil) by their side now that the Dragons are destroying the world, right?

Hmmm, I don’t think so

^ Says Menzies himself :P.

But, @OP, we’ve pretty much confirmed that it is a dragon, presumably Mordremoth, the Jungle Dragon, since the jungle is where we went underground in the end cinematic and we saw a big dragon-ish maw of teeth open. Also, in the cinematic after Scarlets death, dragon corruption is visible on her face.

Presumably the being that tormented Scarlet as described in her journal, was this dragon – when she went to the Asura lands to open her mind to catch a glimpse of the Eternal Alchemy (from what i remember), opening her mind would have given the dragon full and free access and so he took control.

Sorry, but no.

First, one of the old gods is gone forever, a second is absent, and a third is probably imprisoned again. Abaddon is gone forever, having been absorbed into Kormir, and Olias’ dialogue from the end of Nightfall suggests that this is permanent and that he will never be able to return. Menzies hasn’t been seen or heard from at all in GW1 or GW2, and he has the highest likelihood of turning up in a future story, but no word on that so far. Dhuum attempted to break out of the Underworld late in the GW1 story, but presumably his escape was foiled by the heroes of 250 years ago and he won’t be able to muster the strength to do so again for a long time, if ever. So no, at most we might see Menzies but Abaddon is 100% gone.

Second, even if they were still around, none of them would be helping us. Abaddon wanted to corrupt and take over Tyria, and I doubt that he would save the five races and their allies just so he could then turn against us. If anything, he would be hostile to the dragons AND to us, which would be even worse. Menzies’ feud seems to be against Balthazar and nobody else, so Menzies would have no reason to support us against the dragons. He did work with Abaddon and Dhuum briefly in the past, but I think that now that Abaddon is gone, he has no reason to work against us, but certainly wouldn’t divert his attention to help us. Dhuum is the old god of death, and where Grenth is just, he was tyrannical, so his only interest would be in reaping and subjugating souls, so like Abaddon, he would be a hostile third party working against everything else on the planet.

Finally, “nightmare” is a vague term. Mesmers can summon them, and Scarlet’s toxin created them. It’s only a coincidence that certain enemies are called nightmares. Moreover, look at GW1—in Factions, you had Kanaxai’s “nightmare horde” of “demons,” but the Outcasts and the Oni were neither nightmares of Menzies nor demons that followed Abaddon. It’s simply a name that’s meant to show how insane and bizarre they are, so take any fantasy-type descriptions and names with a grain of salt.

Well, Scarlet is the one who woke up Mordy from deep sleep, we all know that now from the season 1 finale; but this does not necessaryly follows that Mordy is the one who is taking over Scarlet’s mind. For one thing Mordy is inactive while it sleeps. All the evidence we have is that a mysterious controller has slowly and surely took over Scarlet, and that Scarlet is the acting agent who woke up Mordy. I am totally opened minded to the idea that an unidentified third actor could have turned Scarlet in to an agent whose goal it was to wake up the sleeping Mordy. The OP idea is one of the possibilities certainly.

P.S. In addition as Scarlet is the powerful active agent who woke up Mordy, then other Elder Dragons must have required their respective powerful agents to wake them up too. I don’t think Scarlet was around for these other Elder Dragons. It does follow that a third unidentified third actor must have orchestrated these prior awakenings of Elder Dragons before Scarlet was born.

Avariz.8241:

Well, Scarlet is the one who woke up Mordy from deep sleep, we all know that now from the season 1 finale; but this does not necessaryly follows that Mordy is the one who is taking over Scarlet’s mind. For one thing Mordy is inactive while it sleeps. All the evidence we have is that a mysterious controller has slowly and surely took over Scarlet, and that Scarlet is the acting agent who woke up Mordy. I am totally opened minded to the idea that an unidentified third actor could have turned Scarlet in to an agent whose goal it was to wake up the sleeping Mordy. The OP idea is one of the possibilities certainly.

P.S. In addition as Scarlet is the powerful active agent who woke up Mordy, then other Elder Dragons must have required their respective powerful agents to wake them up too. I don’t think Scarlet was around for these other Elder Dragons. It does follow that a third unidentified third actor must have orchestrated these prior awakenings of Elder Dragons before Scarlet was born.

Incorrect. It’s definitely Mordremoth who was influencing Scarlet. We know from GW1 that Jormag corrupted Jora’s brother Svanir through a frozen, dormant champion called the Drakkar they found under the ice. Jormag definitely hadn’t awoken by this point, yet there was plenty of power in its champion (let alone the dragon itself) to mess with Svanir’s mind and body. Unless some lore appears that indicates something to the contrary, nothing in the game suggests there is anything influencing the Elder Dragons; in fact, they’re more ancient and probably more powerful than the Six Gods themselves, and this isn’t the first time they’ve come out of hibernation to destroy everything. It’s a cycle, and they naturally wake up when the time is right. The Elder Dragons are their own respective bosses, and nobody had to act to awaken them—they do it automatically every so often when the cycle of magic reaches a certain point.

Therefore, Scarlet merely hastened the emergence of Mordremoth. Ultimately, as far as we know, it would have appeared regardless, but she helped it along. The drill was not necessary, it just sped things up a little.

Seeing Menzies again would be awesome, but honestly, id rather they saved him by actually reading his back story, involvement in GW1, and focusing on how best to integrate that into the current lore, taking time to research current lore and fit it into new lore would make Menzies return more interesting.

As a main antagonist, Menzies would be great, but not for this coming storyline, maybe after we defeat the giant jungle dragon we can give humans some love again.

Menzies to me, would be the best antagonist to introduce when they truly want to go down the darkest chapter of GW2, he’d be great at cementing uneasiness in the loyalties and interests of every faction and putting tension into the races of Tyria, possibly working along side our old comrade Lazarus the Dire.

Menzies and Lazarus would be best reintroduced as a massive Human heavy story theme with their ties to the other races of Tyria, possibly with the duo trying to create hatred between man and its allies.

Menzies would be ideal at corrupting the heroes with whispers of doubts and betrayal while Lazarus would cement it by offering power and prosperity.

Light and Shadow working as a twisted unity would be interesting to say the least.

It is possible that Mordremoth was not directly controlling Scarlet while he slept, but was rather controlling her through one of his minion, who has yet to be seen, but I doubt it would be Menzies.

M Steel.2574:

It is possible that Mordremoth was not directly controlling Scarlet while he slept, but was rather controlling her through one of his minion, who has yet to be seen, but I doubt it would be Menzies.

If I recall correctly from Eye Of the North, Primordus woke up after my character, heroes, and friends killed the Great Destroyer. This took place in or next to the great central asuran gate chamber. This chamber is a node and gathering point of many lines of magic. This chamber is a source of magic as well as a terminus for many converging flows of magic. For instance the asuran gates converge there. The Great Destroyer were apparently guarding the chamber and using the chamber to spawn destroyer minions. Where did the magic came from to make the chamber a nexus of powerful magic. It could be from the sleeping Primordus, or it could be from the converging flow of magic like the terminus nexus of asuran gates. It could be a magic node like the ley line nodes.

As to who actually caused Primordius to wake up I can only speculate. The Great Destroyer were certainly guarding the chamber where Primodus lay asleep. So the Great Destroyer most likely was the powerful agent who brought back Primodus.

Not quite. KiIlling the Great Destroyer prevented his full awakening. Primordus stirred, but did not fully awaken for 2 generations (according to the wiki entry)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Primordus

Maaan… when I look at those gods…. Gw1 was so great, so dark and gloomy, so mature. Fighting Dhuum in the Underworld and the Shadow army, going through the Realm of Torment, Ravenheart Gloom and fighting demons. Even battling the 3 meters high Destroyers was awesome. Gw1 was not for everybody, not for 10-year-old kids like Gw2.
Gw2 with its pitifully looking dragons and destroyers the size of a man should be given Pegi 7.

Oulov.7913:

Maaan… when I look at those gods…. Gw1 was so great, so dark and gloomy, so mature. Fighting Dhuum in the Underworld and the Shadow army, going through the Realm of Torment, Ravenheart Gloom and fighting demons. Even battling the 3 meters high Destroyers was awesome. Gw1 was not for everybody, not for 10-year-old kids like Gw2.
Gw2 with its pitifully looking dragons and destroyers the size of a man should be given Pegi 7.

And yet, we had Mad King Thorn, “Drakes on a Plain”, the goofy antics of Norgu’s stage plays, Goren (best summed up as “durr?”), the gloriously incompetent Ministry in Cantha, and the Norn Fighting Tournament with it’s incredible amount of shout-outs to fighting games.

Also Kilroy Stonekin.

Ah Kilroy, the forefather of zerker

may he RIP

I don’t agree, Gods, specially cunning like Abbadon God of ALL secrets just don’t die with out a SECRET to escape his over thrown, we are not talking about any monster, where talking about Gods who transcend that notion, the fact that there are still artifacts resonating with his power is proof of that even if its weak, the story says clearly that it took 3 Gods to take him out…Dhumm is no exception as for Menzies I cant even imagine…

Before the Truth there are always Secrets. These evil Trio embodies the negative aspect of Gods and should not be taken out… they should be active specially now that the world is being destroy. There are the other side of the coin, where there is Yin there will always be Yang, where there is darkness there is always light!

What if your human character was chosen by one of these deities… its a universal thing, there are good gods and evil ones, even if they are tyrannical one should be able to chose who she/he want to worship or in this case whose blessing he receive, who you want to blame or serve or what destiny you want to fight even if it was pick for you. I would not mind fighting the six gods them self for leaving us like they did… lots of people have lost their lives because of this etc, etc.

Example: From my (role-playing)characters perspective the Good gods abandon us, they dint save my best friend (people from poisoning to death if you chose to save him) from death, or my sister (who in my head was a devoted servant to them) or other atrocities my character experience… I was bless by Grenth, but permanent death is what fallow my character and now that he has unlock Dhuum fire his is positive HIS blessing comes NOT from a just God of death! Now that we need them the most the LEAVE? And don’t even get my character started on that scarlet witch, Etc etc…

I know many players feel the same way, Evil Gods must make an Epic come back and like many others I believe that the ones puling the strings in all this destruction, to make them later look like Saviors or which ever could be these Evil Trinity… it should all be a full circle, can you imagine if the Lich servant of Abbadon posses or takes over Zaithans (that is IF he really is dead in which I HOPE ITS NOT because that final battle with the dragon was really a disappointment) corps and uses all that magical power in that dragons body to fully restore his master, or did Abbadon know about these and fake his own demise? Etc etc…

Point is Arena Net should NOT eliminate such IMPORTANT lore figures and possible awesome game content. You should have seen how many rage about people not choosing the Abbadon content for the Asura reactor one! Many GW1 players would agree that content from the first game should come back.

If Arena net really wants player to be part of the Living story the should consider this, if not the should go back to School with their GW1 or MMOs like Final Fantasy 14 that made a spectacular comeback where in the whole story of the game YOU ARE the hero and the BANE of all the antagonist, there are NPC that help you of course, they even grow on you, but they don’t take the glory or force you to like them just because. Even the antagonist you come to love hating he grow on you NOT annoys you to death or for some players goes to a point in which you don’t really care to even play the content. Personal story did these really well and we will miss does NPCs that grew on us so well. Just saying if they keep this living story thing they need to spice it up more… or at least make it into expansion…

Well unless they plan to leave this big stuff as expansion and living story would be just for the rise of Dragons… then i guess it be OK as long as the PLAYERS ARE THE STORY…not just part of a Raid Army of nameless soldiers or heroes.

NOTE: These are meant to be constructive comment, my apologies if it sounds other wise. I’m a big fan of GW1 and what really hook me to it was the whole story of Abbadon, Dhumm, etc. that was very awesome story.

Oulov.7913:

Maaan… when I look at those gods…. Gw1 was so great, so dark and gloomy, so mature. Fighting Dhuum in the Underworld and the Shadow army, going through the Realm of Torment, Ravenheart Gloom and fighting demons. Even battling the 3 meters high Destroyers was awesome. Gw1 was not for everybody, not for 10-year-old kids like Gw2.
Gw2 with its pitifully looking dragons and destroyers the size of a man should be given Pegi 7.

Hahahaha! Could have not say it better my self brother!

Ngeluz.4860:

I don’t agree, Gods, specially cunning like Abbadon God of ALL secrets just don’t die with out a SECRET to escape his over thrown, we are not talking about any monster, where talking about Gods who transcend that notion, the fact that there are still artifacts resonating with his power is proof of that even if its weak, the story says clearly that it took 3 Gods to take him out…Dhumm is no exception as for Menzies I cant even imagine…

Sorry, but the devs have stated that Abaddon truly is dead. Kormir absorbed his power, but the god himself is gone forever, and while his artifacts and altars might have a little of his old power, it’s not like he’s going to corrupt Kormir from beyond the grave. The only place we might have seen Abaddon himself in GW2 would have been the fractal we could have chosen during the Cutthroat Politics election, and even then, that would have been a reflection of events from the past.

Before the Truth there are always Secrets. These evil Trio embodies the negative aspect of Gods and should not be taken out… they should be active specially now that the world is being destroy. There are the other side of the coin, where there is Yin there will always be Yang, where there is darkness there is always light!

Wishful thinking, but there’s nothing to back it up. As with so many suggestions for Anet that I’ve seen on these forums, you have to have a better reason than “it would be cool.” Dhuum is presumably imprisoned in the Underworld again thanks to our efforts in GW1, and Abaddon is gone forever. So two of the three have already been taken out, and Menzies has never been encountered, period. Menzies is the only character who is even remotely likely to appear in GW2, and the only one whos appearance wouldn’t conflict with well-established lore.

What if your human character was chosen by one of these deities…

Very doubtful. Anet doesn’t want us joining the bandits, the Nightmare Court, the Sons of Svanir, etc. We simply will not be playing “evil” characters in GW2 as it stands. There are no options to be “evil” and support the dragons or the subversive racial factions, or even to be a bad person. That’s the way it is. Sure, letting Link join up with Ganon in the Legend of Zelda series would be avant-garde, edgy, hip, and angstfully postmodern, but that’s not how Zelda works, and it’s not how Guild Wars works.

Example:

RP your heart out, just be aware that your RPing is not and most likely will never be part of the canon.

I know many players feel the same way, Evil Gods must make an Epic come back and like many others I believe that the ones puling the strings in all this destruction, to make them later look like Saviors or which ever could be these Evil Trinity… it should all be a full circle, can you imagine if the Lich servant of Abbadon posses or takes over Zaithans (that is IF he really is dead in which I HOPE ITS NOT because that final battle with the dragon was really a disappointment) corps and uses all that magical power in that dragons body to fully restore his master, or did Abbadon know about these and fake his own demise? Etc etc…

Nope. We have confirmation that he’s really, truly, absolutely gone. As for Zhaitan, he’s really truly dead too, and I believe that somewhere on these forums a dev has confirmed that he’s not coming back.

Point is Arena Net should NOT eliminate such IMPORTANT lore figures and possible awesome game content.

So popular villains in movies should never be killed? That isn’t how the world works. Villains live and die just like the heroes and supporting cast do. When they’re gone, someone else will take their place and fill in the villain’s role for them. Just because you like a character doesn’t mean that Anet has to keep them around. Scarlet, for example, was a polarizing character, but whether you liked her or not, she’s dead as a doornail and definitely won’t return, no matter how many people liked (or, more likely, hated) her character.

If Arena net really wants player to be part of the Living story the should consider this, if not the should go back to School with their GW1 or MMOs like Final Fantasy 14 that made a spectacular comeback

The “spectacular comeback” was a desperate move to salvage an atrociously bad, triple-A product by a failing company. Guild Wars 2 is fine as it is, and just because YOU want it to be full of edgy antiheroes doesn’t mean it should be so. The average player seems to be at least content with what this game has to offer. To make such drastic changes just to fulfill the desires of RPers is something Anet will not do, period, because that would risk offending everyone who enjoys the game as it has existed since launch.

Well unless they plan to leave this big stuff as expansion and living story would be just for the rise of Dragons… then i guess it be OK as long as the PLAYERS ARE THE STORY…not just part of a Raid Army of nameless soldiers or heroes.

This is an entirely different argument, and one that I do agree with somewhat, but you don’t need to make our characters special snowflakes or lore-breaking antiheroes in order to accomplish this vision.

NOTE: These are meant to be constructive comment, my apologies if it sounds other wise. I’m a big fan of GW1 and what really hook me to it was the whole story of Abbadon, Dhumm, etc. that was very awesome story.

It’s fine to want what you want, I’m just saying that what you want is almost guaranteed never to happen. You won’t see a Halo game where the Chief is trying to wipe out humanity, a Diablo where the main character has joined forces with the demons to destroy the angels and humans. RP it all you like, but it’s not going to change the established, canon lore.

To each its own Equinox, thank you for your detail thoughts. I will still disagree on this for so many reason that I’m sure you will have so many other reason of why is not like that etc.
We will have to see until then we move on because as you mention things are not changing for now.
Hush now my pet, now let others post their thoughts please. Sooooooo moving on!

Ngeluz.4860:

To each its own Equinox, thank you for your detail thoughts. I will still disagree on this for so many reason that I’m sure you will have so many other reason of why is not like that etc.
We will have to see until then we move on because as you mention things are not changing for now.
Hush now my pet, now let others post their thoughts please. Sooooooo moving on!

Opinions are fine, but when your “theories” completely contradict everything we know about the lore, it’s just absurd. You’ve posted your “theory” in many threads, even when there’s little connection between the thread topic and your post, so clearly you’re one of those single-issue people who won’t give up on their pet theory no matter how much evidence is presented to discredit it. Go ahead and keep your expectations high, but don’t be surprised when nothing you want to see ever comes to pass.

Equinox.4968:

Ngeluz.4860:

To each its own Equinox, thank you for your detail thoughts. I will still disagree on this for so many reason that I’m sure you will have so many other reason of why is not like that etc.
We will have to see until then we move on because as you mention things are not changing for now.
Hush now my pet, now let others post their thoughts please. Sooooooo moving on!

Opinions are fine, but when your “theories” completely contradict everything we know about the lore, it’s just absurd. You’ve posted your “theory” in many threads, even when there’s little connection between the thread topic and your post, so clearly you’re one of those single-issue people who won’t give up on their pet theory no matter how much evidence is presented to discredit it. Go ahead and keep your expectations high, but don’t be surprised when nothing you want to see ever comes to pass.