Thought after being able to play "bad guy"?
What do you all feel about this part?
It was tepid, because Caithe is inexplicably playing the fool more than playing the “bad guy”. The worse thing is that your character also gets roped into being an idiot when it comes to updating Jory on what transpired.
Really, hero, the Centaurs just became violent for no reason?
I mean, all Caithe and her psychotic girlfriend wanted to do was forcibly kidnap an honored guest from the Centaur village.
No idea why they would become so violent towards us. /rolleyes
I don’t feel Caithe was acting like a ‘villian’ I felt she was just incredibly naive throughout the whole thing. I liked nor hated it. I love the Faolain – Caithe story, as cliché as it might be, so I was relatively happy seeing more of this and learning more about Caithe in general, so yes I enjoyed it story-wise, but I wouldn’t have minded seeing it from my own eyes either.
I also felt playing with different skills was a nice change of pace (even with 8 different classes I play often) but it got boring quickly, luckily there was little fighting.
There’s a difference between being able to choose to be the bad guy, and being forced into it.
This was forced. There was a clear and obvious choice here, but because it was a memory of past events, we didn’t get to make that choice.
Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
Really, hero, the Centaurs just became violent for no reason?
Why not? It happens IRL.
Upon your initial arrival at the camp, the centaurs assumed all Sylvari were like Wynne and peaceful, though they were set off by your show of force. As you moved through their camp, Faolain’s comments made them further lose trust in your group. At this point, the centaurs were surrounded and probably feared the unknown. Faolain further provoked one of them into attacking, which started the chain reaction.
From Caithe’s perspective, she didn’t see what was happening. She only heard that her comrades were under attack. Would you really let your friends die over a tribe you knew nothing about? Also consider that you had previously encountered a dangerous species of “imps” that were killing your people and before that, you were told to protect and not let another Sylvari die. Also keep in mind that she is young and inexperienced at this point and is likely now biased in assuming that other species are hostile.
Even if you were given the option to sit back and watch, the centaurs would have likely attacked Caithe out of fear and rage. Wynne was probably the only one that could have stopped both sides.
Faolain is really horrible.
I used to find her interesting back the and still do to a certain extend but this … made me actually hate her, how she moans about freedom of thinking and then like a big hypocrite trampeled all over Wynne’s just cause they were Ventari related and must know her secret for her egotisitcal power craving spiel.
Ultimately she only cares about people aslong as they are her lapdog and she can benefit from them, and Caithe is too naive, young and ignorant back then and easily manipulated by her.
It was painful to watch.
The entire story added substance to the sylvari though.
Just a bit too short for my taste.
The dynamic between the firstborn and secondborn was great.
Also Faolain’s view on how the mothertree is indeed somewhat of a control freak “molding all her children into perfect blossoms” even though she says the weed is brother to the blossom.
It makes sense sylvari could perceive her as quite the hypocrite that doesn’t love her children unconditionally, making her no better yet acting arrogantly, hiding behind a facade of softness while really she’s just being selfish herself.
Even Caithe agrees that she feels rather pressured.
But maybe damage was unavoidable in the end.
She’s ambitious nd a young mother, trying to set her children o na different path than the one that was probably destined for them.
Also they didn’t have internet and reality shows back then to research parenting.
(edited by Deim Hunir.8503)
I felt glorious.
I am sick and tired of being a goodie two shoes all the time.
I’m sick of being the morally-white-everyone-loves-you-hero.
I do want to be a villain. Very, very much. Playing Caithe and getting to commit villainous acts… even unwillingly on Caithe’s part… was a wonderful change of pace. Finally some bad areas. Finally some grey area.
I felt glorious.
I am sick and tired of being a goodie two shoes all the time.
I’m sick of being the morally-white-everyone-loves-you-hero.
I do want to be a villain. Very, very much. Playing Caithe and getting to commit villainous acts… even unwillingly on Caithe’s part… was a wonderful change of pace. Finally some bad areas. Finally some grey area.
Unwillingly?
Faolain was referring to the centaurs in the same way the asura had referred to the sylvari. She came with an armed force, and Caithe knew she was being unreasonable about the ‘secret’ that she felt was being kept from her.
Then, the centaur asked Caithe to please stay back out of it, and she didn’t. (Sadly, this being a replay of past events means you don’t really get to choose to listen to her request.) She was presented with a choice, and it was very clear that Faolain was in the wrong there, but she helped her anyway. Caithe chose to do the wrong thing, but she wasn’t forced to.
Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
What do you all feel about this part?
It was tepid, because Caithe is inexplicably playing the fool more than playing the “bad guy”. The worse thing is that your character also gets roped into being an idiot when it comes to updating Jory on what transpired.
Really, hero, the Centaurs just became violent for no reason?
I mean, all Caithe and her psychotic girlfriend wanted to do was forcibly kidnap an honored guest from the Centaur village.
No idea why they would become so violent towards us. /rolleyes
I wouldn’t say it was inexplicable. She was only two years old at the time. Naivety is a bit of a racial trait for sylvari, even now let alone 20 years ago. She knows Faolin, trusts Faolin and has just discovered a group of outsiders torturing Sylvari and so is likely to believe Faolin over outsiders. She is also unable to recognise exactly the path that Faolin is about to head down with the nightmare court.
I loved the sylvari lore (even if they did change some things randomly like the amount of time the firstborn were alone for) and the way that Faolain rebelled. I think when you understand the enormous amount of pressure from the Pale Tree to ‘be perfect’ it makes you sympathise more with her and the others who decided they didn’t want to be part of that world. HOWEVER, after that segment where they met the centaurs and found Wynne, I played through it and by the end I was really mad. Not only did Faolain do the exact same thing to the centaurs that the asura had previously done to them (which makes her a massive hypocrite) but Caithe doesn’t even question what they’ve done… so now I’m just disgusted in them both. Those centaurs were peaceful and were trying to protect Wynne from a gang of thugs. They didn’t deserve to die like that…
Really poor. I never liked Caithe in the story, but she’s such an idiot in this one it’s honestly hard to watch her warder around being dumb and enabling.
I wasn’t playing a villain. I just got handed an idiot ball. Again.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I wish I could have let Faolain die there in the Centaur camp. But no, I’m forced to play through Caithe’s stupidity and my character afterwards is even more stupid when talking to Jory.
The part about how the sylvari met the asuras was great and nicely showed the utterly depraved side of the asura’s motto of “science over alles”. Unfortunately everything that happens after the asura lab relies heavily on Caithe (and our own character as well) carrying the idiot ball.
Why not? It happens IRL.
Upon your initial arrival at the camp, the centaurs assumed all Sylvari were like Wynne and peaceful, though they were set off by your show of force. As you moved through their camp, Faolain’s comments made them further lose trust in your group. At this point, the centaurs were surrounded and probably feared the unknown. Faolain further provoked one of them into attacking, which started the chain reaction.
From Caithe’s perspective, she didn’t see what was happening. She only heard that her comrades were under attack. Would you really let your friends die over a tribe you knew nothing about? Also consider that you had previously encountered a dangerous species of “imps” that were killing your people and before that, you were told to protect and not let another Sylvari die. Also keep in mind that she is young and inexperienced at this point and is likely now biased in assuming that other species are hostile.
Even if you were given the option to sit back and watch, the centaurs would have likely attacked Caithe out of fear and rage. Wynne was probably the only one that could have stopped both sides.
This. Caithe was in the tent when she heard Faolain scream, she run outside and saw the centaurs attacking her. I would have done the same thing.
If there is someone to blame that is Wynne.
(edited by Underdark.3726)
[quote=4599507;Underdark.3726:]
I don’t see your post. I only see
What do you all feel about this part?
It was tepid, because Caithe is inexplicably playing the fool more than playing the “bad guy”. The worse thing is that your character also gets roped into being an idiot when it comes to updating Jory on what transpired.
Really, hero, the Centaurs just became violent for no reason?
I mean, all Caithe and her psychotic girlfriend wanted to do was forcibly kidnap an honored guest from the Centaur village.
No idea why they would become so violent towards us. /rolleyes
I wouldn’t say it was inexplicable. She was only two years old at the time. Naivety is a bit of a racial trait for sylvari, even now let alone 20 years ago. She knows Faolin, trusts Faolin and has just discovered a group of outsiders torturing Sylvari and so is likely to believe Faolin over outsiders. She is also unable to recognise exactly the path that Faolin is about to head down with the nightmare court.
Granted, what you say is true. But Caithe’s role in this story is to be the enabler of a sociopath, so her reasons for being so are less important than the resultant outcome in terms of harm.
Faolain is playing Caithe and those around her like a maestro conducts an orchestra:
As this sort of person, you ensconce yourself in a niche, or maybe a series of niches, in which you can have some amount of control over small numbers of people. These situations satisfy a little of your desire for power, although you are chronically aggravated at not having more. It chafes to be so free of the ridiculous inner voices that inhibit others from achieving great power, without having enough talent to pursue the ultimate successes yourself. Sometimes you fall into sulky, rageful moods caused by a frustration that no one but you understands.
…Provided you are not forcibly stopped, you can do anything at all. If you are born at the right time, with some access to family fortune, and you have a special talent for whipping up other people’s hatred and sense of deprivation, you can arrange to kill large numbers of unsuspecting people.
…You notice that people who do have a conscience feel guilty when they harangue someone they believe to be “depressed” or “troubled.” As a matter of fact, to you further advantage, they often feel obliged to take care of such a person. If, despite your relative poverty, you can manage to get yourself into a sexual relationship with someone, this person – who does not suspect what you are really like – may feel particularly obligated. And since all you want is not to have to work, your financier does not have to be especially rich, just relatively conscience-bound.
- Excerpt:
From Martha Stout’s The Sociopath Next Door: The Ruthless Versus the Rest of Us
All in all, I liked the story and character motivations, Caithe could have been portrayed a little more robustly just to nail down her naivety/vulnerability a bit more.
How did I feel about it?
I liked Caithe, but I didn’t like Faolain and not just because she’s evil.
It was how they portrayed her.
Right off the beginning she hates the tablet and kitten everyone’s opinion other than hers.
I wanted to see a bit more of a lighter personality before meeting with the Faolain I’ve already killed off in that one dungeon.
Even Scarlet had a different personality when she was Ceara.
Granted hers came about with near Lovecraftian experiments, but there was a change.
Not for Caithe’s lover, nope already evil right from the beginning.
It makes me wonder why Mother Tree didn’t just burn her body before it emerged.
As for the playing evil bit, I didn’t mind it. Yes it sucked that gentle Centaurs had to bite the dust, but that’s just because I’ve been more fascinated with those types than anything else.
Overall this episode was bland. There was no gray areas, no real intrigue (save what’s behind Monty Hall Door #1), and the only things interesting were the Firstborn before they gained the positions they have now.
I seriously hope the next episode ties this together, or it will just be a waste of an update. Caithe’s secret either has to be that fricking door or the fact she went proto Nightmare Court like an idiot.
Elona, Land of the Golden Sun….and undead…and poison. The travel brochure lied okay?!
What do you all feel about this part?
It was tepid, because Caithe is inexplicably playing the fool more than playing the “bad guy”. The worse thing is that your character also gets roped into being an idiot when it comes to updating Jory on what transpired.
Really, hero, the Centaurs just became violent for no reason?
I mean, all Caithe and her psychotic girlfriend wanted to do was forcibly kidnap an honored guest from the Centaur village.
No idea why they would become so violent towards us. /rolleyes
This sums up my thoughts on the matter pretty well.
It’s a matter of having to “force” Caithe into a tragic backstory, yet keep her somewhat in line with her heroism in Destiny’s Edge. So it doesn’t fit. Faolin pushes far too hard, Caithe doesn’t try hard enough, and it’s actually a bit disturbing that we see Faolin in a deliberately abusive relationship. Yes, she’s evil, but it’s a villainy born from her own tragic flaw, and Caithe just passively gets roped into it.
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
I think part of it is that they just don’t make you believe that anyone could love Faolain, which messes with Caithe’s characterization.
Honestly, if they’d just swtiched up the order it would have worked better. Start with the rescue mission and a more reasonable but still very harsh Fao, then have the meeting while She’s still all “PAIN IS REALITY!”, then complete the deal with slaughtering the centaurs.
Fao being already hateful and evil from the beginning made Caithe just look weak.
Keep in mind that Caithe was around 2 years old at the time. The current year is 1327, the firstborn emerged in 1302 and the secondborn were 2 years later, which was what the first memory showed.
With only 12 firstborn, she has had a very limited view.
Keep in mind that Caithe was around 2 years old at the time. The current year is 1327, the firstborn emerged in 1302 and the secondborn were 2 years later, which was what the first memory showed.
With only 12 firstborn, she has had a very limited view.
Still Faolain is utterly loathsome and against everything they’ve been taught. She’s petty, spiteful, hateful, racist, violent, and subversive.
If she’s not remotely likeable, how can we believe that she’d be Caithe’s 1 true love?
If she’s not remotely likeable, how can we believe that she’d be Caithe’s 1 true love?
It’s been approximately 2 years. Caithe and Faolain were the only ones that left the forest and ventured the world together. Faolain’s view could have changed over that time as she learned what the world was really like. By that point, they already shared a bond.
Even if Caithe knew that Faolain was turning, it’s not surprising that she wouldn’t give up on her after all they’ve been through. In the end, Caithe goes as far as the edge of the nightmare to be with her.
It’s unknown when exactly Faolain turned, but the seed of the Nightmare Court is shown to exist even back then. For all we know, this could have been their last memory together.
If she’s not remotely likeable, how can we believe that she’d be Caithe’s 1 true love?
It’s been approximately 2 years. Caithe and Faolain were the only ones that left the forest and ventured the world together. Faolain’s view could have changed over that time as she learned what the world was really like. By that point, they already shared a bond.
Even if Caithe knew that Faolain was turning, it’s not surprising that she wouldn’t give up on her after all they’ve been through. In the end, Caithe goes as far as the edge of the nightmare to be with her.
It’s unknown when exactly Faolain turned, but the seed of the Nightmare Court is shown to exist even back then. For all we know, this could have been their last memory together.
I’m not saying that it couldn’t have happened, but rather that they need to show us it happening, or else we wont’ really feel it. We never see a version of Faolain who isn’t soul-rendingly evil, and the believability and relatability of the characters suffer for it.
Not for Caithe’s lover, nope already evil right from the beginning.
It makes me wonder why Mother Tree didn’t just burn her body before it emerged.
I’m hoping we eventually learn that by allowing the Nightmare Court to dabble in their evil-for-the-lulz, the Pale Tree is able to exert some measure of control over them, or at least monitor them. The alternative being her attempts to hold on to them too tightly would drive them to becoming Soundless and leave them fully open to corruption.
If she’s not remotely likeable, how can we believe that she’d be Caithe’s 1 true love?
It’s all in the way she moves her hips. ;D
I’d like the option to be an avenger. While killing the centaurs was disturbing to me personally, I’d love to have had the option to torture the kitten out of the asura who were performing experiments on the sylvari. Put them inside those machines and experiment on them instead, or just cut them apart alive.
EDIT: yes, I might be a nightmare court material. I’d like to see myself as more akin to Gavin rather than Faolain though.
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“My mind has left, my body follows”
[S]illy [L]ittle [U]gly [T]rolls – our little dungeon forum community
“My mind has left, my body follows”
(edited by Silferas.3841)
If she’s not remotely likeable, how can we believe that she’d be Caithe’s 1 true love?
It’s all in the way she moves her hips. ;D
It’s all physical? I can totally accept that
From Caithe’s perspective, she didn’t see what was happening. She only heard that her comrades were under attack. Would you really let your friends die over a tribe you knew nothing about? Also consider that you had previously encountered a dangerous species of “imps” that were killing your people and before that, you were told to protect and not let another Sylvari die. Also keep in mind that she is young and inexperienced at this point and is likely now biased in assuming that other species are hostile.
Yeah, she’s all like “What’s with these ponies dissing my girl? Why do they gotta front? What did we ever do to these guys, that made them so violent?”
Ceterum censeo Sentim Punicam esse delendam
Still Faolain is utterly loathsome and against everything they’ve been taught. She’s petty, spiteful, hateful, racist, violent, and subversive.
While we only get three vignettes, I think they’re intended to show a downward spiral.
In the first bit, the worst you can say about her is that she is a sort of Byronic figure (or a rebellious teenager) — she wants to find her own path rather than live up to someone else’s ideals, and feels the secondborn are going to be even more suffocated than she is. Ironically (but not unsurprisingly — nature abhors a vacuum) it seems like she ends up adopting Caderyn’s ideals rather defining her own. As she already feels controlled and pressured by the other firstborn (especially Trahearne, who comes off like a bit of a jerk here) and the Pale Tree, learning of secret discussions among same about what sounds like a mind-control device makes her assume the worst about their intentions.
In the second bit, she clearly thinks direct confrontation is better, but has no problem with using stealth and violence only as needed — until they find the newborns being experimented on. But there’s nothing “evil” here, and her horror and anger is entirely understandable (and probably shared by Caithe). However, between that, the fact that she is placed in a situation where she has to (indirectly) kill newbies or be killed by golems, and the fact that Vorpp gets away and faces no repercussions, we can see what, for a human, could easily be psychological roots of her xenophobia, her acceptance or even embrace of cruelty and subversion, etc. But pain and negative emotions (guilt, anger, horror) seem to affect Sylvari more deeply and fundamentally, and as a independent-minded Sylvari, she can’t lean as deeply upon the Dream or Ventari’s teachings for mental/spiritual support.
A lot of time has elapsed by the third bit — it seems as though she has been meeting with Cadeyrn, and their interaction (from the wiki: “He was there to witness the aftermath of Malomedies’ first bitter contact with the asura, and in battle he saw no hope in mercy. In each occasion, he only saw peace through aggression, and as each turn was stymied, his enmity of the Tablet grew.”) combined with her personality and her brush with Nightmare in Vorpp’s lab to transform her from someone rebellious and independent and maybe a little paranoid to something much darker (though more like a fascist than the Evil for the sake of Evil villains that the Nightmare Court usually come across as). Still, there’s no evidence that she has does anything this horrible before this incident.
So, tldr, Faolain didn’t start out Evil, she started out as a romantic hero who got corrupted by a combination of bad life experiences and hanging out with extremists. But she was Caithe’s bestie and lover from the get-go, and it’s understandable that Caithe would blind herself to what was going on with Faolain, or at least to how far exactly she had fallen.
Ceterum censeo Sentim Punicam esse delendam
You have to consider what she’s rebelling against though, it doesn’t come off so well.
Also, even at the start, she’s so ANGRY about it. “How dare they expect me to respect all races and types?”
How did I feel about it?
I liked Caithe, but I didn’t like Faolain and not just because she’s evil.
It was how they portrayed her.
Right off the beginning she hates the tablet and kitten everyone’s opinion other than hers.
Yes, much like everyone in Real Life™ who objects to a society where people are forced or heavily pressured into living their lives according to a set of rules written on a stone tablet by a guy a long time ago are Very Bad People and obviously just waiting to go psycho. Anyway, while she clearly values the ability to think for herself, she doesn’t want to impose her ideals on others (at least, judging by her words). She doesn’t care if Trahearne wants to rigorously observe the tenets of Ventari’s tablet, but she has a problem with his desire to indoctrinate the secondborn (as he calls them, notably, emphatically placing the “firstborn” above them in terms of actual and moral authority)
People calling Faolain obviously evil from the start are letting their memories of the first two parts be overwhelmed by their reaction to the last bit, even though it should be clear that a fair bit of character development has happened, unseen, in the interim. Even in No Refuge, it’s not clear that she’s Eeeeevul, rather than paranoid and roughly as jingoistic as your average modern military FPS hero. If she wanted to just slaughter a village, she could have done it and left Caithe behind, rather than saying “Why don’t you do the talking with these creatures up ahead? You have a better way with strangers.”. She expects all outsiders to be hostile or at least untrustworthy, and isn’t good about hiding her feelings in that regard, manipulative though she may otherwise be. Her particular dislike for centaurs is probably rooted (heh) to a large extent in that fact that it is centaur philosophy that is being forced on the Sylvari.
At any rate, the centaurs aren’t peaceful baby seals here — while they’re initially pretty friendly, once they see Faolain’s sunny personality, they don’t act much better than she does. The first thing Nekhii says in talking with Caithe is that they have a history of violence which they are trying to escape. Faolain’s attitude was just the push they needed to fall off the wagon.
I wanted to see a bit more of a lighter personality before meeting with the Faolain I’ve already killed off in that one dungeon.
Killed who now?
Ceterum censeo Sentim Punicam esse delendam
Not for Caithe’s lover, nope already evil right from the beginning.
It makes me wonder why Mother Tree didn’t just burn her body before it emerged.I’m hoping we eventually learn that by allowing the Nightmare Court to dabble in their evil-for-the-lulz, the Pale Tree is able to exert some measure of control over them, or at least monitor them. The alternative being her attempts to hold on to them too tightly would drive them to becoming Soundless and leave them fully open to corruption.
They tried that whole ‘game the system by making the resistance’ with the Matrix movies.
It didn’t work out too well there either.
I seriously hope the Pale Tree doesn’t pull an Architect on us.
Elona, Land of the Golden Sun….and undead…and poison. The travel brochure lied okay?!
How did I feel about it?
I liked Caithe, but I didn’t like Faolain and not just because she’s evil.
It was how they portrayed her.
Right off the beginning she hates the tablet and kitten everyone’s opinion other than hers.Yes, much like everyone in Real Life™ who objects to a society where people are forced or heavily pressured into living their lives according to a set of rules written on a stone tablet by a guy a long time ago are Very Bad People and obviously just waiting to go psycho.
She started off ham handed as the bad guy, but really there was no reason for it.
I’m not talking about Real Life folks, the same folks with real life legitimate issues, so don’t try to lead me down that path. You’ll be wasting your time.
Cadeyrn had legit reasons for going Nightmare, jealousy.
Faolain, supposedly had been all about questions, and Caithe had been all about answers.
I didn’t get that from her in this first part of the episode.
I got the feeling she would have been a snotty childish adult who really doesn’t want a debate.
People calling Faolain obviously evil from the start are letting their memories of the first two parts be overwhelmed by their reaction to the last bit, even though it should be clear that a fair bit of character development has happened, unseen, in the interim. Even in No Refuge, it’s not clear that she’s Eeeeevul, rather than paranoid and roughly as jingoistic as your average modern military FPS hero.
Actually my reasoning for calling her Eeeeevul right from the start stems from how she never truly changes compared to how she’ll eventually be.
Let’s take, for example, Scarlet.
We see her as a half baked Joker mad Harley Quinn plant woman.
Eventually we’re given the backstory that she likes to tinker and question.
It was her own curiosity and lack of restraint that eventually did her in, thus creating something that went totally mad.
We went from one dimensional crackpot to at least 1.5 dimensional with the potential of more if they did want to keep working on the back story.
Now back to the subject Faolain. In the book (Edge of Destiny) and in the dungeon path we get a manipulative psycho who kidnaps her own people in order to turn them.
She probably does question things, but the game tends to fluff up her more evilish side than her question things sides.
In this back story, well she’s a racist or at least has Sylvari supremacist-like feelings which isn’t too far from the former. Aside from that she’s still pretty much the end result, minus the kidnapping part.
Not that much on development, but I’ll be fair and say this was one instance whereas Scarlet had a few more.
I will also agree that Trahearne’s idea of calling them Second born was flat out stupid, but I don’t expect much from him at times anyways.
I would have experienced it differently if Faolain at first worked with the newly awakened. Instead of outright fighting Trahearne about his adherence to the tablet.
From there when the Asura Lab mission comes up, then she could get mad and have a “this is why we can’t have nice things” moment.
At any rate, the centaurs aren’t peaceful baby seals here
Of course they aren’t. They do show some range however as a race.
Then again I’m not going to compare a whole race with one Sylvari.
They got pushed, they defended themselves, and lost.
Killed who now?
I was referring to Faolain’s ending at Twilight Arbor.
Upon further research, I did the story path months ago so the memory was weak, it didn’t actually show her die.
More like a disappearance, so a GI Joe death or some other thing of the sort.
TLDR version:
She does have the potential for a good back story, but this first instance of her past fell flat to me.
If others feel different, then that’s them.
However I just didn’t see here as some tragic creature or anything other than what she’ll be in the present.
Elona, Land of the Golden Sun….and undead…and poison. The travel brochure lied okay?!
I didn’t like it. The plot requires you to lose all common sense and ignore the obvious. It’s rather insulting to the audience when think about how dumb and narrow-sighted it needs you to be.
Again, feels very heavy-handed.
Gone to Reddit.
Actually my reasoning for calling her Eeeeevul right from the start stems from how she never truly changes compared to how she’ll eventually be.
In this back story, well she’s a racist or at least has Sylvari supremacist-like feelings which isn’t too far from the former. Aside from that she’s still pretty much the end result, minus the kidnapping part.
Maybe, but I just don’t see it. If your point is that she didn’t go from angelic sweetness to darkest black, sure. But she starts out suspicious, not paranoid; a freethinker, not a terrorist; protective of Sylvari, not xenophobic.
If you only showed me part one, I could easily envision a character arc that ends with Faolain as a Byronic anti-hero, with Trahearne being the one who falls from grace as secondborn start questioning Ventari’s teachings and his authority, and he reacts by codifying the tablet into a set of rigid laws enforced by a brutal Inquisition.
We can easily see the traits (questioning orthodoxy, a suspicious attitude, self-confidence to the point of arrogance) that will combine with her experiences and the influence of others like Cadeyrn to corrupt her. But it doesn’t mean most people with those flaws will become a paranoid, racist terrorist.
Now, in part three, she’s clearly most of the way to the dark side. But by that point, it should be clear that the Nightmare Court exists in an embryonic form, and she has joined their team since part two. The arc of her fall is traced between parts 1/2 (the start, where she’s about as good as she ever was) and part 3 (where’s she nightmare court in all but name).
Ceterum censeo Sentim Punicam esse delendam
Actually my reasoning for calling her Eeeeevul right from the start stems from how she never truly changes compared to how she’ll eventually be.
In this back story, well she’s a racist or at least has Sylvari supremacist-like feelings which isn’t too far from the former. Aside from that she’s still pretty much the end result, minus the kidnapping part.
Maybe, but I just don’t see it. If your point is that she didn’t go from angelic sweetness to darkest black, sure. But she starts out suspicious, not paranoid; a freethinker, not a terrorist; protective of Sylvari, not xenophobic.
No, she starts as someone that (by her own words) likes to win, and when not “winning” (meaning – getting her way) gets angry and wants to hurt others to vent her frustrations. Just look at her getting more angry at Vorpp because he dared to escape than because he hurt other sylvari. She seems to be treating that whole event badly not because she cares for the captured sylvari prisoners, but more because she seems it as an insult to herself, personally. And while she speaks a lot about freedom to choose, and disagrees with other firstborn guiding the secondborn according to their (and the Pale Tree’s) ideas, she seem to be perfectly okay when it comes to manipulating others by herself.
Her badmouthing centaurs from the get go (and being completely okay with killing them off) is an extension of that.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
Actually my reasoning for calling her Eeeeevul right from the start stems from how she never truly changes compared to how she’ll eventually be.
In this back story, well she’s a racist or at least has Sylvari supremacist-like feelings which isn’t too far from the former. Aside from that she’s still pretty much the end result, minus the kidnapping part.
Maybe, but I just don’t see it. If your point is that she didn’t go from angelic sweetness to darkest black, sure. But she starts out suspicious, not paranoid; a freethinker, not a terrorist; protective of Sylvari, not xenophobic.
If you only showed me part one, I could easily envision a character arc that ends with Faolain as a Byronic anti-hero, with Trahearne being the one who falls from grace as secondborn start questioning Ventari’s teachings and his authority, and he reacts by codifying the tablet into a set of rigid laws enforced by a brutal Inquisition.
We can easily see the traits (questioning orthodoxy, a suspicious attitude, self-confidence to the point of arrogance) that will combine with her experiences and the influence of others like Cadeyrn to corrupt her. But it doesn’t mean most people with those flaws will become a paranoid, racist terrorist.
Now, in part three, she’s clearly most of the way to the dark side. But by that point, it should be clear that the Nightmare Court exists in an embryonic form, and she has joined their team since part two. The arc of her fall is traced between parts 1/2 (the start, where she’s about as good as she ever was) and part 3 (where’s she nightmare court in all but name).
Again, it starts with her being angry about the idea of someone embracing peace and unity and that they’d dare suggest she live up to a standard.
Edit: Actually this isnt’ quite right, it starts with her being psychopathically suspicious and envious of her sister, Wynne. The darkness doesn’t start with the racism, the darkness starts with her diseased obsession with/jealousy of Wynne.
The beginning of the second act really gives it away though, “Why can’t she love us unconditioanlly?” both misunderstands unconditional love and misunderstands parenting.
She never doesn’t want to hate, not in chapter 1, not in chapter 2, certainly not when she’s exterminating all sentient life in that valley.
If anything she gets angry that she’s not allowed to be as hateful as she’d like as quickly as she’d like.
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Like I (and a few others have said), it would have worked better if they did asura > Meeting > Centaurs. Then she’d have a recognizable character arc of See terrible things > Question harshly the things she’s being taught > Give in to anger and hate.
It would also make her focus on wynne make more sense, after the Asura thing she’d be angry and fightened at the world, and it would be perfectly sensible to be worried about what she heard and seek a form of control (that’s one of things you do when you’re frightened and vulnerable and angry).