"Tyria will need me" - Scarlet
If we are to assume that Pale Trees share a hive-like mind and communicate with each other, then this is very probable.
What I think happened was Scarlet discovered the truth, the origins of their kind and that what was supposed to happen didn’t. Instead, the Pale Tree (because of its influence by Ronon and Ventari) hid these truths away to prevent its people from “falling” back into their general purpose. It could be argued that while the Nightmare Court is still protected by the dream, that in attacking the Dream they are coincidentally coinciding with Mordremoth’s demands.
There’s also the possibility that Mordremoth was late in awakening, not early. So rather than answer the call in the way that the Sylvari “should” have, it took Scarlet to become under the influence to realize that order must be established – hence attacking Lion’s Arch. Similar to Primordus, The Great Destroyer was trying to make way for its master and influenced the process that would lead to Primo’s emergence. There’s a few issues but I do think there’s an underlying connection between the Sylvari and Mordremoth because one must ask where the Seed(s) came from. My thoughts are that they did come from Mordremoth but with his influence shrouded and kept in secret, they evolved in a different manner than what was originally intended for them as a species. All because of intervention by a human and a centaur whose ideals were projected onto the Seed(s) as it developed.
I fully recognize that I am speculating greatly so I’m interested in seeing what will be proved or disproved in this season.
My take on it was:
A rebellious dragon champion, makes you also wonder if the Pale Tree also understands the nature of the dragons enough to just blindly send its people into the world “speaking softly but carrying a big stick”.
She is also aware of this imbalance and still willing fight Mordremoth anyway.
That worked out so well for Glint and the imbalance could possibly make the Pale Tree itself vulnerable. We also have to consider there is another tree in the world that may or may not be under Modremoth’s influence. That the Sylvari are very tied to dragons and there is some sort of union possible if the dragon comes to claim what is his. Thing as they are, Modremoth has to have come across at least the roots of The Pale Tree. She is either locked in struggle to keep the influence out or all those who have awakened from the dream recently are sleeper agents of Mordremoth already.
Maybe Caithe was the first, while Scarlet was the first we noticed, and Aerin involvement to come out of nowhere.
“Look like the innocent flower, but be the Obaba under’t.”
Currently I support the theory that, in the Entanglement cinematic, the orb uniting into the center is Zaithan, with its energy returning to Tyria.
I just don’t see why there are so many theorys about the GREEN orb being Zaithan and the greyish one (therefore) being Mordremoth… It makes just way more sense the other way around.
Currently I support the theory that, in the Entanglement cinematic, the orb uniting into the center is Zaithan, with its energy returning to Tyria.
I just don’t see why there are so many theorys about the GREEN orb being Zaithan and the greyish one (therefore) being Mordremoth… It makes just way more sense the other way around.
I think it was the way they became active and started to glow. The Green orb lit up before the grey one which would be saying the cycle has Mordremoth waking before Zaithan.
“Look like the innocent flower, but be the Obaba under’t.”
Only if you assume the order of them “being activated” has a connection to their awakening (or any other connection to something, like their defeat).
As far as I remember, the order of dragons awakening would be wrong anyway, even if the green orb represents Zaithan.
If I am right then order is right. Primordus was first to be awaken (red orb). Next was probably deep sea dragon (dark blue). I know that his influence was registred later but it doesn’t matter because ocean is so big that it could take some time for it to be noticed.
Rest of dragons: Jormag (bright blue), Zhaitan (dark green), Kralkatorrik (purple) and Mordremoth (black/yellow).
I know that many would say that Zhaitan’s orb is black one but black one flashes with yellow color which has nothing to do with Zhaitan. Dark green coincides more with his corruption and yellow and black would coincide with earth because plants and all other needs to be rooted in earth thus earth is the beggining of Mordremoth’s powers even if he doesn’t use it directly. Plus Zhaitan’s energy falling back to circle would correspond to his death.
I know that many would say that Zhaitan’s orb is black one but black one flashes with yellow color which has nothing to do with Zhaitan. Dark green coincides more with his corruption and yellow and black would coincide with earth because plants and all other needs to be rooted in earth thus earth is the beggining of Mordremoth’s powers even if he doesn’t use it directly. Plus Zhaitan’s energy falling back to circle would correspond to his death.
Yes! This is what I am imagining. But, considering the Pale tree has a better understanding of this than any of the NPCs, and she supported our quest to kill Zaithan, what is her objective in this? To Tyria to blow up? Mord to be double-empowered? For her to become an elder dragon?
Can’t wait to find it out in the next release.
Well Pale tree is embodyment of life so there is clear reason why she wanted Zhaitan dead because reviving what is dead and thus breaking a circle of life/rebirth is greatest crime against life. I don’t think she works for Mord because Aerin was Soundless thus without protection of Pale tree and Scarlet sought seclusion from the tree and so she was more vulnerable to Mord too. And if Zhaitan wouldn’t be dead we would have two dragons to fight with which would be bad.
And if Scarlet found out something about Pale tree why she didn’t attacked the Grove instead of LA? Plus if I know she never said something against the Pale tree (atleast not directly) when she came back from Ommad’s machine.
I think that seeds of the tree came from Mord but the tree was cut off from his influence by Ronan and Ventari tablet and now it helps other races to fight against the dragons. Sometimes the simlest explanation is the right one.
Currently I support the theory that, in the Entanglement cinematic, the orb uniting into the center is Zaithan, with its energy returning to Tyria.
I just don’t see why there are so many theorys about the GREEN orb being Zaithan and the greyish one (therefore) being Mordremoth… It makes just way more sense the other way around.
I think it was the way they became active and started to glow. The Green orb lit up before the grey one which would be saying the cycle has Mordremoth waking before Zaithan.
Not to mention we’re assuming that the order of movement has any real legitimate meaning behind it. I don’t think Mord woke up 7 years early. I’m of the opinion at this moment that he’s been late and what we were looking at is the natural process in the cycle, not our specific cycle that we are witnessing.
If I am right then order is right. Primordus was first to be awaken (red orb). Next was probably deep sea dragon (dark blue). I know that his influence was registred later but it doesn’t matter because ocean is so big that it could take some time for it to be noticed.
Rest of dragons: Jormag (bright blue), Zhaitan (dark green), Kralkatorrik (purple) and Mordremoth (black/yellow).
It’s not Zhaitan. Explain why the orb would suddenly fly in our face followed by the same rumble of a growl that was featured during the still-framed cutscene from Season 1? That was Mordremoth’s iconic growl. The imagery isn’t there to support Zhaitan, he’s the black and white and lights up with a sickly yellow hue. If anything his colors were neon-yellow which is what emanated from him during Arah Story.
Again this brings me to what I’m saying above, we’re assuming the order shown in this cutscene is legitimate. If it is, and Mord is dark green, it would mean Mord was supposed to have woken up a while ago and something or someone had been delaying it.
(edited by Ronin.7381)
Only if you assume the order of them “being activated” has a connection to their awakening (or any other connection to something, like their defeat).
As far as I remember, the order of dragons awakening would be wrong anyway, even if the green orb represents Zaithan.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elder_Dragon
Bubbles does not have an awakening date according to the wiki, also used in past tense.
If we were to state that Bubbles may have awakened before Jormag, the order would be correct if the left orb is Zhaitan.
We also need to remember a few other things in regards to what Zhaitan’s death holds for the future. If a dragon is killed, it’s magic seeps back into everything else in Tyria, including other dragons, necromancers potentially becoming more powerful, magic associated with undeath, etc. (I wager 5 septims that Scarlet knew about this). The magic basically spreads EVERYWHERE.
- It has been stated that Tequila’s uprising would have a lore reason as to why it happened, which would get more coverage later during the seasons.
- If the center represents Tyria, it would not only be lore friendly, it also helps explain the overall trouble of killing a dragon. In reality, you’re not just killing some menacing dragon, you’re also throwing it’s magic right back into Tyria as raw Dragon Energy.
Despite WP’s very snotty(and actually quite rude to a degree) attitude towards the possibility, Zhaitan being the left orb is actually quite plausible.
(edited by IllegalChocolate.6938)
I got lazy, sorry! Copied my theory that I wrote on other topic.
Every orb reflects something.
My theory:
- White orb in middle is Tyria
- Pale Tree herself is rooted into Tyria, thus the positioning in the middle orb.
- Deeb blue orb is Deep Sea Dragon.
- Green orb is Mordremoth.
- Red orb is Primordius.
- Purple orb is Kralkatorrik.
- Black orb with faint greenish-yellow light is Zhaitan.
- Ice blue orb is Jormag.
The order which each orbiting orbs start to move is:
- Primordus
- Deep Sea Dragon
- Jormag
- Mordremoth
- Kralkatorrik
- Zhaitan
The orbs very likely displayed according to the order of the dragons awakening from slumber, not the date when they got up from their lairs, since races of Tyria cannot predict which one woke up from slumber, but can only write down the date on which the dragon started moving…
However the deeper nature of the dragon is quite unknown, as Ogden speculated on his book in Scarlets house on Dry Top, that the dragons might actually be part of Tyria.
Alot of info that was given in the history, Dwarves, Mursaat, Seers, Jotun and Forgotten also fought back, but were not capable of winning, only when the Seers made the Bloodstones, to seal their magic, thus becoming less important to the dragons to consume. After sealing their magic, the ancient races then hid with aid of Glint, who was released sometime before.
Another possibility about Mordremoth targeting the Zephyrites, could be that the Zephyrites grew crystals they used, from crystaline remains of Glint. Perhaps we’ll see more about it, or it’s pretty much nothing big…
I’m a casual PvE adventurer, I enjoy combat, adventure and helping, but not farming.
I rarely do PvP or Hard PvE, unless it’s organized.
I rarely do PvP or Hard PvE, unless it’s organized.
Answer(directed towards the opening post):
No.
No one needs that invasive weed. Good riddance.
Really now? That orb looked more fitting for Mordremoth, and as it falls into the center, the roar we hear sounds quite similar to the one at the end cutscene of the “Scarlet’s End” instance, not Zhaitan’s roar.
The possibility of the Elder Dragons being part of a bigger system to keep magic in check seems plausible. But…
#1: They’re still bad about how they do it by killing everything else, and…
#2: So far no major consequences for there being “too much magic” have been brought up or considered in-game.
And finally, the dragging up of the “Pale Tree is a dragon champion” theory with once again no solid evidence even implying a connection between her and Mordremoth (besides both being plantlike).
Sigh…
(edited by Nilkemia.8507)
0) the roar we hear sounds quite similar to the one at the end cutscene of the “Scarlet’s End” instance, not Zhaitan’s roar.
Sorry, can’t really discern between dragon roars. So nice you can.
#1: They’re still bad about how they do it by killing everything else, and…
Great stories are not good versus evil. Are lesser evils versus greater evils. And maybe the dragons never thought to negotiate with those worthless sentients. Now we killed a dragon, they may be more open to talk. Or maybe Scarlet simply thought genocide is better than non-existence.
#2: So far no major consequences for there being “too much magic” have been brought up or considered in-game.
Maybe because Abbadon was cast down for distributing too much magic, and magic being stored into Bloodstones to avoid the use of magic to waging wars. And the Dragons wake up every 14000 years, eat too much magic (and civilizations, which like magic too) and sleep. What happens if they fail? Maybe that never happened, and that’s why we don’t know.
And finally, the dragging up of the “Pale Tree is a dragon champion” theory with once again no solid evidence even implying a connection between her and Mordremoth (besides both being plantlike).
Ok, do you have a better theory?
No?
That’s what I thought.
4) No.
No one needs that invasive weed. Good riddance.
Sigh…
My thoughts exactly on your snotty attitude.
Sorry, can’t really discern between dragon roars. So nice you can.
I can discern between roars that I’ve heard in-game.
At the very least, it’s not Zhaitan (being dead and all). It could be any of the others besides Mordremoth, but seeing as the rest of them are taking an extended vacation from wrecking Tyria, it’d make sense for it to be the one causing trouble now.
Great stories are not good versus evil. Are lesser evils versus greater evils. And maybe the dragons never thought to negotiate with those worthless sentients. Now we killed a dragon, they may be more open to talk. Or maybe Scarlet simply thought genocide is better than non-existence.
I think you’re saying great stories aren’t always good and evil? Sure, stories can have some gray in and do it well, but so far this story doesn’t pass off as that. Right now, the dragons are the big bads, with lots of lesser baddies along the way (Inquest, Nightmare Court, Sons of Svanir, Flame Legion, Bandits, the list goes on..).
Maybe because Abbadon was cast down for distributing too much magic, and magic being stored into Bloodstones to avoid the use of magic to waging wars. And the Dragons wake up every 14000 years, eat too much magic (and civilizations, which like magic too) and sleep. What happens if they fail? Maybe that never happened, and that’s why we don’t know.
Abbadon was cast down because King Doric asked the gods to take the magic back because those silly humans started killing each other too much. He was the sole dissenter, and fought the others before getting cast down (why he was so adamant on defying the others’ choice is unknown, but eh, probably doesn’t matter much now)
To be fair, we don’t really know what happens if the dragons do get beaten back/killed. Whatever it is though would have to be very bad to top the dragons however.
Ok, do you have a better theory?
No?
That’s what I thought.
Okay. Three ideas come to mind.
- They may have been created by the Forgotten, who found a way to protect their artifacts from dragon corruption and were responsible for giving Glint free will to begin with. Implied by the Sylvari’s immunity to being corrupted (they just die instead).
- Another possibility lies with the Druids, whom were rumored to be humans that shed their original bodies to become spirits of nature. This is implied by Sylvari having the ability to summon a Druid spirit as an elite skill.
- Or maybe Melandru could’ve made them too, seeing as a passage from somewhere in-game mentions her turning people into tree/nature spirits as well.
And, in the Priory’s opening mission arc, Seiran can create/test a sheath to hold the Sanguinary Blade (made of Jormag’s frozen blood!), utilizing shavings from a statue of Grenth, stating it was the only thing that came to mind having power rivaling the Sanguinary Blade’s corruptive influence. This is a stretch, but it seems to imply the magic from the Gods can rival draconic energy/influence.
Sadly, the only way to ever find the truth would be if the developers use this arc (or future ones) to explore to origins of the Pale Tree/other trees (which they might, given how the Pale Tree has suddenly taken a leap in importance since that “vision” cutscene), otherwise, a conclusive answer may never be reached.
While it is possible for the sylvari/Pale Tree to be connected to Mordremoth, the only credible theory so far is that the seeds (or whatever spawned them) were purified/given free will by the Forgotten as Glint was, and hidden away as well. It would also mean Mordremoth must’ve stayed quite out of the way to have not been mentioned in any of the documents about the dragons so far (at the very least, there could’ve been mention of a plant dragon/plant minions)
Oh, and there’s also this:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/On-the-Sixth-Elder-Dragon-and-its-corruption/first
It’s from before Mordremoth was finally revealed, but it gave a solid argument against the Pale Tree = Dragon champion theory. In addition, other threads debating this have come up before, and this thread’s poster has been involved in some of those as well.
My thoughts exactly on your snotty attitude.
Heh, irony.
(edited by Nilkemia.8507)
Yes! This is what I am imagining. But, considering the Pale tree has a better understanding of this than any of the NPCs, and she supported our quest to kill Zaithan, what is her objective in this? To Tyria to blow up? Mord to be double-empowered? For her to become an elder dragon?
Can’t wait to find it out in the next release.
I’m thinking that the Pale Tree(s) and sylvari can’t exist in a low-magic world. If the dragons are not stopped, then the trees and sylvari all die or at least go inert.
Scarlet saw how everything worked together, one part moving the parts around it, which move still more. She loved to manipulate things, but hated being controlled. If you read the short stories about her, even her very first words after awakening was a denial of the role she was supposed to take.
If I’m right, then it makes sense that she’d want to be rid of the Pale Tree (controlling her) AND the dragons. Setting them against each other before either side is ready was her plan to get that, she could just mop up the survivors when it was over. Sadly, her attempts to break free of control actually forced her under someone’s control in the end. Everyone assumes it was a dragon, but I’m wondering if Scarlet Briar wasn’t actually a second personality that formed to be free of the control that Ceara (as a part of Tyria and the Eternal Alchemy) was under.
Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
delicate, brick-like subtlety.