Guild Wars 2

It seems to me that the term “ultra-challenging achievements” has been used to describe the LS2 Story Journal Achievements several times now, but I question whether or not these have been “ultra-challenging.” When they first said this, I was thinking something along the lines of Liadri or at least any of the 3rd tier gauntlet fights. So far the achievements have been very casual and if there’s any difficulty at all its more in the realm of how to do it rather than actually doing it (e.g. On Swift Wings post bug fix). Of course this is just my opinion.

To date (again, in my opinion) the only “ultra-challenging achievements” as far as solo content or at least individual skill content:

-Super Adventure Box: Tribulation Mode
-Tier 4 of the candidate trials from Support Evon Gnashblade/Ellen Kiel category
-Achievements associated with Tier 3 fights from The Queen’s Gauntlet

What would be on your list?

tribulation mode is like a 6 out of 10. but tribulation without dulfy is a 11 out of 10. loved it so much I bought an infinite coin. I remember it even took dulfy like a week or two to publish it.
something else high on the list: the first halloween clock tower

Maybe it’s still “ultra-challenging” to the majority of the player base? It’s mostly casuals that make up the GW playerbase, you know.

Gah, I don’t want anything like Liadri.
I still have nightmares about her. Was so frustrating.
The rest of the gauntlet was challenging… but Liadri was just despair.

Zaxares.5419:

Maybe it’s still “ultra-challenging” to the majority of the player base? It’s mostly casuals that make up the GW playerbase, you know.

Could be. Anyone think that the LS achievements have been challenging, and if so, what made them that?

Zaxares.5419:

Maybe it’s still “ultra-challenging” to the majority of the player base? It’s mostly casuals that make up the GW playerbase, you know.

Since when does ‘casual’ mean ‘bad’?
If anything this shows how little the average player knows abou the combat system and
that Anet maybe should do a better tutorial at the start to prevent
new players from falling into the trap of zerging their way to 80
and not knowing anything about combat/combos/dodging when they are fully levelled.

So I finished a few of the LS2 achievements last night. Then refreshed myself what the achievements were earlier in LS2. And I have to wonder which achievements these people think are so challenging?
maybe fighting that frog without falling off would be – but only if you had to solo it. I got that achievement while part of a zerg. we literally killed him before he even did any knockback attacks. if you have a party of 5 with even a little stability, that fight would be easy. imagine liadri fight with more than one person
most of the achievements have been “odd ways of doing things”, “find all the locations!”, and “have you defeated this?” none of that I would be “challenging” – more of “grinding”. even the tiers are more grinding than challenging, because they don’t take skill, they take mass amounts of people.

Crovax.7854:

Zaxares.5419:

Maybe it’s still “ultra-challenging” to the majority of the player base? It’s mostly casuals that make up the GW playerbase, you know.

Since when does ‘casual’ mean ‘bad’?

Apparently since you expected it, as he didn’t say it.

Sariel V.7024:

Crovax.7854:

Zaxares.5419:

Maybe it’s still “ultra-challenging” to the majority of the player base? It’s mostly casuals that make up the GW playerbase, you know.

Since when does ‘casual’ mean ‘bad’?

Apparently since you expected it, as he didn’t say it.

Zaxares.5419:

Maybe it’s still “ultra-challenging” to the majority of the player base? It’s mostly casuals that make up the GW playerbase, you know.

I bolded the part, that implies casuals find achievements, that are trivial at best to someone using common sense hard (‘ultra challenging’), so you have an easier time understanding

Most challenging content I’ve come by were some particular jumps and occassional bugs.

Nothing combat-related at all, to be honest.

Crovax.7854:

Sariel V.7024:

Crovax.7854:

Zaxares.5419:

Maybe it’s still “ultra-challenging” to the majority of the player base? It’s mostly casuals that make up the GW playerbase, you know.

Since when does ‘casual’ mean ‘bad’?

Apparently since you expected it, as he didn’t say it.

Zaxares.5419:

Maybe it’s still “ultra-challenging” to the majority of the player base? It’s mostly casuals that make up the GW playerbase, you know.

I bolded the part, that implies casuals find achievements, that are trivial at best to someone using common sense hard (‘ultra challenging’), so you have an easier time understanding

Or, looking at it from the other direction, maybe it just means that you’re much better than the average player and you should feel proud about your skill?

SlackerATC.5934:

…if there’s any difficulty at all its more in the realm of how to do it rather than actually doing it…

That’s how pve works. Find the auto-win method by trial and error then roll your face over the keyboard.

SlackerATC.5934:

It seems to me that the term “ultra-challenging achievements” has been used to describe the LS2 Story Journal Achievements several times now, but I question whether or not these have been “ultra-challenging.”

I was very excited when I saw ANet’s mention of ultra challenging achievements being worked into the Season 2 living story. And I, too, am still looking for them…. Would be really nice to have something challenging that requires working at it for quite a bit in order to get it down and succeed. An hour or so of story instances, and then another hour or two of completing achievements for them just isn’t cutting it.

Mad kings clock tower, Liadri. The only achievements I know I will never get as I personally find them a pain in the kitten . I’d rather have fun then fight the urge to smash my keyboard and mouse up when I make a silly mistake.

I think the game is no longer being designed for us in the West. The game is dying here, (in spite of being the best “at launch” MMO of the last decade, they found a way to squander it), but it’s very successful in China. I’m sure localizations for other Eastern nations will be the next top priority.

Designing for the East is very different than designing for the West. Expect more difficulty, more grind and a decidedly less benevolent cash shop moving forward.

People still playing here are likely seen as die-hards who will surely swallow anything, thus the risks of alienating the remaining Western player-base must be seen as very insignificant vs. the potential gains from targeting the game for Eastern audiences.

The game’s once incredible potential will never be realized. If it was a “dime a dozen” MMO, no one would care, but it was a once in a million opportunity missed by a mile. It’s about the saddest outcome this fifteen year MMO veteran can imagine.

Boo…hiss…boo…

Fiontar.4695:

I think the game is no longer being designed for us in the West. The game is dying here, (in spite of being the best “at launch” MMO of the last decade, they found a way to squander it), but it’s very successful in China. I’m sure localizations for other Eastern nations will be the next top priority.

Designing for the East is very different than designing for the West. Expect more difficulty, more grind and a decidedly less benevolent cash shop moving forward.

People still playing here are likely seen as die-hards who will surely swallow anything, thus the risks of alienating the remaining Western player-base must be seen as very insignificant vs. the potential gains from targeting the game for Eastern audiences.

The game’s once incredible potential will never be realized. If it was a “dime a dozen” MMO, no one would care, but it was a once in a million opportunity missed by a mile. It’s about the saddest outcome this fifteen year MMO veteran can imagine.

Boo…hiss…boo…

So, was it really necessary to post the same complaint in 3 topics? But seriously, it’s all the same again. The game is dying in your opinion, I still see a lot of people in game. People with constructive criticism, enthusiastic people, people who can appreciate the way the game is going. Of course, there is also the other side of the spectrum, I’m not going to deny that. That category is most likely even the most active here on the forum, what can give a distorted view of things.

Calling all the people who still play in the west die-hards is somewhat amusing. We have a lot of die-hards then, nice to know. But they will not swallow anything, that is over exaggerating. Your post seems to be a bit affected by your own rage about missing content, what you can get fairly easy without even using real live money. Sure, not everyone will be pleased with that, but there is some flexibility. Missing a chapter is also very easy to avoid.

Fiontar.4695:

I think the game is no longer being designed for us in the West. The game is dying here, (in spite of being the best “at launch” MMO of the last decade, they found a way to squander it), but it’s very successful in China. I’m sure localizations for other Eastern nations will be the next top priority.

Designing for the East is very different than designing for the West. Expect more difficulty, more grind and a decidedly less benevolent cash shop moving forward.

People still playing here are likely seen as die-hards who will surely swallow anything, thus the risks of alienating the remaining Western player-base must be seen as very insignificant vs. the potential gains from targeting the game for Eastern audiences.

The game’s once incredible potential will never be realized. If it was a “dime a dozen” MMO, no one would care, but it was a once in a million opportunity missed by a mile. It’s about the saddest outcome this fifteen year MMO veteran can imagine.

Boo…hiss…boo…

People have been saying the game is dying from about 6 months after launch. And how every MMO since would wipe Guild Wars 2 out and the game would go free to play.nwe are still here. I don’t see a change in the way the game is being made. The game, to me, feels just as “grindy” as before the China launch.

SlackerATC.5934:

Zaxares.5419:

Maybe it’s still “ultra-challenging” to the majority of the player base? It’s mostly casuals that make up the GW playerbase, you know.

Could be. Anyone think that the LS achievements have been challenging, and if so, what made them that?

I think for most people the last achievement of beating that last boss instance they introduced without being CC’d could be challenging of most of the player base. It forces you to learn the encounter since stuff like just popping stability prevents you from being knocked down, but you still got “hit” by that cc.
It comes down to blocks, evades & positioning. (and not being in there all day because you play too conservative)

Even though its not the hardest thing for all of us, it was definitely on the right track comparing to the other achievements. I also noticed that some are easier/harder to get based on the class you are playing.

Yeah, after finally completing the latest achievements on the weekend, I agree that “Don’t Knock Yourself Out” is actually pretty challenging. Stability doesn’t work, so you need a combination of evades, speed boosts (to outrun the flames), stunbreaks (in case you get Feared), good damage (to kill the statue faster so you spend less time dodging), and a decent dose of luck (if you’re unfortunate enough to have a flame spawn RIGHT on you, or the rocks just swarm you after you’re out of dodges, you can kiss the achievement goodbye).

Unlike most of the other achievements, it also doesn’t really become easier with more people, since each additional person spawns 1 more Spectral Flame, along with more rockfalls. That greatly reduces your available space to maneuver.

All in all, I’d say this achievement is definitely one that tests your individual skill as a player. (And no, you can’t cheese this achievement anymore since ANet stealth-patched the safe spot.)

Cyan.6904:

Fiontar.4695:

I think the game is no longer being designed for us in the West. The game is dying here, (in spite of being the best “at launch” MMO of the last decade, they found a way to squander it), but it’s very successful in China. I’m sure localizations for other Eastern nations will be the next top priority.

Designing for the East is very different than designing for the West. Expect more difficulty, more grind and a decidedly less benevolent cash shop moving forward.

People still playing here are likely seen as die-hards who will surely swallow anything, thus the risks of alienating the remaining Western player-base must be seen as very insignificant vs. the potential gains from targeting the game for Eastern audiences.

The game’s once incredible potential will never be realized. If it was a “dime a dozen” MMO, no one would care, but it was a once in a million opportunity missed by a mile. It’s about the saddest outcome this fifteen year MMO veteran can imagine.

Boo…hiss…boo…

So, was it really necessary to post the same complaint in 3 topics? But seriously, it’s all the same again. The game is dying in your opinion, I still see a lot of people in game. People with constructive criticism, enthusiastic people, people who can appreciate the way the game is going. Of course, there is also the other side of the spectrum, I’m not going to deny that. That category is most likely even the most active here on the forum, what can give a distorted view of things.

Calling all the people who still play in the west die-hards is somewhat amusing. We have a lot of die-hards then, nice to know. But they will not swallow anything, that is over exaggerating. Your post seems to be a bit affected by your own rage about missing content, what you can get fairly easy without even using real live money. Sure, not everyone will be pleased with that, but there is some flexibility. Missing a chapter is also very easy to avoid.

It has nothing to do with me missing content. It has everything to do with a game I once saw as having $billion potential flush even more of that potential right down the drain.

Ultra-challenging material is fine for those who want it, but when Living Story, which was once meant to cater to the masses, keep everyone happy and provide a key selling point for the game, becomes target at the the elite few, I call that content mostly the die-hards will love.

As far as East vs. West influencing future game design, I really need to offer a caveat. That assumes that they will a.) develop for where the money is at, and, b.) do a much better job developing for the East than they have done developing for the West the last 18 months.

I’ve been playing MMOs for over 15 years and I’ve never seen self destructive, post launch game development on this scale, ever. It sucks all the more because this game was possibly the best “at launch” MMO in the history of the genre and appeared to really “get the market” in a way that should have precluded such a reversal of fortune post launch.

To me, Anet post mid 2013 is the Anti-ANet. It’s hard to imagine they are the same studio.

Fiontar.4695:

Cyan.6904:

Fiontar.4695:

I think the game is no longer being designed for us in the West. The game is dying here, (in spite of being the best “at launch” MMO of the last decade, they found a way to squander it), but it’s very successful in China. I’m sure localizations for other Eastern nations will be the next top priority.

Designing for the East is very different than designing for the West. Expect more difficulty, more grind and a decidedly less benevolent cash shop moving forward.

People still playing here are likely seen as die-hards who will surely swallow anything, thus the risks of alienating the remaining Western player-base must be seen as very insignificant vs. the potential gains from targeting the game for Eastern audiences.

The game’s once incredible potential will never be realized. If it was a “dime a dozen” MMO, no one would care, but it was a once in a million opportunity missed by a mile. It’s about the saddest outcome this fifteen year MMO veteran can imagine.

Boo…hiss…boo…

So, was it really necessary to post the same complaint in 3 topics? But seriously, it’s all the same again. The game is dying in your opinion, I still see a lot of people in game. People with constructive criticism, enthusiastic people, people who can appreciate the way the game is going. Of course, there is also the other side of the spectrum, I’m not going to deny that. That category is most likely even the most active here on the forum, what can give a distorted view of things.

Calling all the people who still play in the west die-hards is somewhat amusing. We have a lot of die-hards then, nice to know. But they will not swallow anything, that is over exaggerating. Your post seems to be a bit affected by your own rage about missing content, what you can get fairly easy without even using real live money. Sure, not everyone will be pleased with that, but there is some flexibility. Missing a chapter is also very easy to avoid.

It has nothing to do with me missing content. It has everything to do with a game I once saw as having $billion potential flush even more of that potential right down the drain.

Ultra-challenging material is fine for those who want it, but when Living Story, which was once meant to cater to the masses, keep everyone happy and provide a key selling point for the game, becomes target at the the elite few, I call that content mostly the die-hards will love.

As far as East vs. West influencing future game design, I really need to offer a caveat. That assumes that they will a.) develop for where the money is at, and, b.) do a much better job developing for the East than they have done developing for the West the last 18 months.

I’ve been playing MMOs for over 15 years and I’ve never seen self destructive, post launch game development on this scale, ever. It sucks all the more because this game was possibly the best “at launch” MMO in the history of the genre and appeared to really “get the market” in a way that should have precluded such a reversal of fortune post launch.

To me, Anet post mid 2013 is the Anti-ANet. It’s hard to imagine they are the same studio.

I don’t see it like that, but of course opinions differ. However, the Living Story in itself isn’t ultra-challenging, some of the achievements can be pretty challenging. And you don’t need to complete the achievements to finish chapters of the Living Story, they are optional in other words. Plus, no matter the content there will always be people who think it’s too hard, or too easy, or just right.

The east vs. west thing is in my eyes no more than a case of assumptions and speculation.

Fiontar.4695:

Ultra-challenging material is fine for those who want it, but when Living Story, which was once meant to cater to the masses, keep everyone happy and provide a key selling point for the game, becomes target at the the elite few, I call that content mostly the die-hards will love.

That’s why the instances themselves aren’t designed to be ultra-challenging, and the achievements are optional secondary objectives that don’t lock you out of story progression, but rather give you a chance to earn extra rewards for extra effort.

They’re not going to suddenly make it super-hard to just go through the story, but they might make the side achievements harder so that people who want a challenge have an objective with some nice rewards for doing it.

Mad King’s Clocktower … although I don’t think it’s even tied to an achievement, it sure felt like one to me :P