Guild Wars 2

Any one have any speculation as to what the child is talking about? It really seems like a little foreshadowing on ANET’s part of upcoming events. My guess is Magdaer. With the increased activity of Primordus it would fit the billet for a magical weapon to be used against the dragon and it’s minions. Is it possible that another race (Norn, Dwarf, Tengu, Largos) could have been protecting this sword for just such a time?

Jormag’s Breath shares the skin but so does the Fiery Dragon Sword share with Sohothin

If there’s another post on this I couldn’t find it. Fail forums search.

It’s been a while since I’ve done it, but didn’t Eir recover Magdaer during the Ascalon Catacombs dungeon story and take it to a smith to have it repaired as a gift for Logan? Nothing ever came of that, as I recall, which means it may still be in the hands of some norn smith now that Eir is dead. I would guess Braham doesn’t know this story or he probably would have reclaimed it as one of his mother’s heirlooms.

If that norn smith happens to be named Beemish, then perhaps the kid’s remark is more than just a funny throwaway bit of dialog.

Ahh yes! You are correct. Its been so long since I did the story there. So now it seems even MORE likely that it’s Magdaer. By the sound of things its already been repaired so I’d assume we’ll be hearing from Beemish pretty soon (If he’s not already dead). If she has the sword where is Beemish?! We’ve heard nothing of him. For a blacksmith to be able to repair a sword of such magic from a time when the Gods walked Tyria means he has some serious talent.

Maybe we’ll learn to harvest and duplicate the magic to use in other weapons. Seems like a pretty good idea!

It’s probably a blue “mighty bronze sword” with a level requirement of 5.

Manasa Devi.7958:

It’s probably a blue “mighty bronze sword” with a level requirement of 5.

This seems more likely. If you have ever met an imaginative child of Nyla Dagdottir’s age, they have even a healthier fantasy life than that of those of us playing fantasy RPGs. Remember: this is the same nornling who wants to call the new guild, “Fate’s Razor” (okay, maybe that isn’t such a bad idea).

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

This seems more likely. If you have ever met an imaginative child of Nyla Dagdottir’s age, they have even a healthier fantasy life than that of those of us playing fantasy RPGs. Remember: this is the same nornling who wants to call the new guild, “Fate’s Razor” (okay, maybe that isn’t such a bad idea).

Uh, Fate’s Razor is roughly a synonym for Destiny’s Edge. So…

perilisk.1874:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

This seems more likely. If you have ever met an imaginative child of Nyla Dagdottir’s age, they have even a healthier fantasy life than that of those of us playing fantasy RPGs. Remember: this is the same nornling who wants to call the new guild, “Fate’s Razor” (okay, maybe that isn’t such a bad idea).

Uh, Fate’s Razor is roughly a synonym for Destiny’s Edge. So…

You must have missed the pages & pages of discussion about the merits of “Fate’s Razor” versus “Dragon’s Watch”.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You must have missed the pages & pages of discussion about the merits of “Fate’s Razor” versus “Dragon’s Watch”.

Oh, yeah, there was an anet poll about the guild name at one point, right? I wasn’t really on the forums much at the time, but I vaguely remember something like that.

perilisk.1874:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You must have missed the pages & pages of discussion about the merits of “Fate’s Razor” versus “Dragon’s Watch”.

Oh, yeah, there was an anet poll about the guild name at one point, right? I wasn’t really on the forums much at the time, but I vaguely remember something like that.

Yes, and many people posting on the forums (and on Reddit) didn’t like any of the choices . Some of those same people jokingly (or seriously?) said they preferred the norn kid’s suggestion to any of the earlier ones. (I’m reasonably sure that ANet expected that reaction, as it wouldn’t have been the first time that they poked fun at fans for being cranky about change)

perilisk.1874:

Uh, Fate’s Razor is roughly a synonym for Destiny’s Edge. So…

Indeed! Which makes Rytlock’s comment “I will never be a member of a guild called Fate’s Razor!” even funnier.

@subject: I don’t think that sword will have any relevance whatsoever. I believe it was merely mentioned to make the whole conversation amusing.

Ashantara.8731:

perilisk.1874:

Uh, Fate’s Razor is roughly a synonym for Destiny’s Edge. So…

Indeed! Which makes Rytlock’s comment “I will never be a member of a guild called Fate’s Razor!” even funnier.

@subject: I don’t think that sword will have any relevance whatsoever. I believe it was merely mentioned to make the whole conversation amusing.

Hmmm. I don’t know about that. If it wasn’t for Sohothin Rytlock Trombone would’ve never became a Revenant. Perhaps we could see something of similar consequence. Primordus’ champion was defeated with aid of a freezing technology developed by the Asuran but it might not be enough for the new juiced up dragon minions.

I think what Ashantara meant was that “Uncle Beemish’s magic sword” will have no relevance, not that Magdaer is irrelevant. It is far from proven that the two are one and the same.

I suspect, though, that Magdaer is going to make it’s appearance with respect to the Ascalon ghost issue rather than elder dragons. Someday I’m sure ANet will return to that plot thread.

I’m waiting for Rytlock to admit that he ignored the part of the prophecy that spoke of the “rightful king of Ascalon” since the charr obviously do not wish to acknowledge that any human ever had a right to rule Ascalon. That would certainly explain why the cleansing ritual was only partly successful. There is still one known Ascalonian descendant of Doric living, and perhaps putting the crown and either Sohothin or Magdaer in his hands would solve the charr’s problem with the ghosts.

BrettM.9062:

I think what Ashantara meant was that “Uncle Beemish’s magic sword” will have no relevance, not that Magdaer is irrelevant. It is far from proven that the two are one and the same.

I suspect, though, that Magdaer is going to make it’s appearance with respect to the Ascalon ghost issue rather than elder dragons. Someday I’m sure ANet will return to that plot thread.

I’m waiting for Rytlock to admit that he ignored the part of the prophecy that spoke of the “rightful king of Ascalon” since the charr obviously do not wish to acknowledge that any human ever had a right to rule Ascalon. That would certainly explain why the cleansing ritual was only partly successful. There is still one known Ascalonian descendant of Doric living, and perhaps putting the crown and either Sohothin or Magdaer in his hands would solve the charr’s problem with the ghosts.

Since this is about theory and speculation it’s true they’ve yet to correlate the two but I don’t know of any other magical swords already existing in the Lore. I do know the land known as Ascalon was originally claimed by the Charr, not humans, sometime before 100 BE. With this information the “rightful king of Ascalon” would be Charr (but Rytlock not being blood-related) until a race is announced to have preceded them in which the Charr conquered. When the sword was broken it created the Ghosts so it’s a possibility that once repaired it could contain their magic to once again form a powerful useful weapon. The swords were created as a pair with, possibly, a “circuit” of magic so with one being destroyed the broken “circuit” of magic was ineffective against the ghosts. Maybe the intended power was far too great to be contained in just one blade. Revenant can wield two swords so maybe the story will unlock a new stance once Magdaer reaches its original form. Anything formed by magic is related to the Dragons as history and lore shows. They are themselves there to control the balance of magic.

Since the swords were created in Arah during the time of the gods (whom we still don’t fully know their connection to the dragons though share similarities) and recent story tells of a “spectrum” of magic, the Gods would have had a way to convert energy (magic) in a similar sense as the current dragons do. Taimi’s research is similar. The ghosts magic could be converted back into the sword. It’d be a proper tool for current threats by re-engineering a certain effect from Chak organs.

I like Grover’s theory about the “rightful King of Ascalon” being Charr… except (a) do the Charr have kings? and (b) only the humans speak of “the rightful kings” of anywhere, especially Ascalon (and of course, Kryta). Humans seem to get bent out of shape about rights of succession — the charr only care about who has the mightiest fist; the asura give precedence to smartest, sneakiest, or who can sit the longest through a meeting without using the toilet; the Norn … do they have traditional leaders?; and the Syvlari, bless their little heartless trunks, they don’t seem very bent out of shape about having been misled by the Pale Tree about being Dragon Minions, lied to by Caithe, i.e. they don’t seem to have traditional leaders or intrigues either.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I like Grover’s theory about the “rightful King of Ascalon” being Charr… except (a) do the Charr have kings? and (b) only the humans speak of “the rightful kings” of anywhere, especially Ascalon (and of course, Kryta). Humans seem to get bent out of shape about rights of succession — the charr only care about who has the mightiest fist; the asura give precedence to smartest, sneakiest, or who can sit the longest through a meeting without using the toilet; the Norn … do they have traditional leaders?; and the Syvlari, bless their little heartless trunks, they don’t seem very bent out of shape about having been misled by the Pale Tree about being Dragon Minions, lied to by Caithe, i.e. they don’t seem to have traditional leaders or intrigues either.

Well the Charr have the very first Khan-Ur. Khan-Ur, or the primus imperator, is the title used by the supreme rulers of the charr; underneath the Khan-Ur lies the imperators. The Claw of the Khan-Ur is the weapon of the Khan-Ur and having it is one of the requirements for a charr to become a Khan-Ur, another being performing a great act to show the individual’s power.

There has been only one true Khan-Ur, whose name is never mentioned and is only referred to as “the Khan-Ur.” The Khan-Ur unified the charr before the arrival of humans on the Tyrian continent, and was assassinated by humans around the time of the Exodus of the Gods. The four children of the Khan-Ur formed the four High Legions. Thus, the blood relatives of the “first Khan-Ur” would retain power over Ascalon. I believe this would be their ruler.

Ah, ok. I just figured that’s so far in the past as to be irrelevant… but if Rytlock can jump in kitten in the space-time continuum and reappear mysteriously with a cool blindfold, I suppose I should allow for that possibility.

The problem with this theory that the rightful heir is a charr is that the artifact that caused the Searing is human bound in nature, being made by the gods. It seems highly unlikely that a prophecy about a human used artifact would be about a charr. Not impossible, of course, just unlikely. Plus, you have to think about the fact that that the Charr took Ascalon. We don’t know who from, but their history speaks of spreading from North and West of the Blazeridge Mountains and moving into Ascalon, see Ecology of the Chart. So they weren’t the first rulers of Ascalon, and hold as much claim as humanity did.

I, too, have a little problem accepting the charr theory. The gods created a number of powerful artifacts — two swords, a crown, a couple of staves, and maybe others — and gave them to Doric, who was the ruler of all humanity on the Tyrian continent. His descendants became the ruling houses of Orr, Ascalon, and Kryta, dividing the rule and the artifacts among them.

Frankly, giving artifacts to mortals that can do things like creating the Foefire seems about as wise as giving nukes to toddlers. What were the gods thinking?! However, it seems to me that they certainly would have wanted to be sure that not just anybody could grab one and unleash its full devastating force. I think they would have been bound to Doric’s bloodline in some way, unless the gods were even dumber than they appear from giving out such artifacts in the first place.

Of course, someone will point out that Vizier Khilbron used the Scepter of Orr, which was one of those artifacts. But the royal line of a country often has many offshoots, particularly among the nobility. Look, for example, at Barradin and Adelbern, both qualified for the throne as descendants of Doric, though Barradin was more in the direct line. Or look at Salma, who was an unacknowledged illegitimate daughter of the previous king of Kryta. Khilbron, as a high-ranking Orrian noble, may well have been in line for the Orrian throne with King Reza and his family dead following the cataclysm.

Narcemus.1348:

The problem with this theory that the rightful heir is a charr is that the artifact that caused the Searing is human bound in nature, being made by the gods. It seems highly unlikely that a prophecy about a human used artifact would be about a charr. Not impossible, of course, just unlikely. Plus, you have to think about the fact that that the Charr took Ascalon. We don’t know who from, but their history speaks of spreading from North and West of the Blazeridge Mountains and moving into Ascalon, see Ecology of the Chart. So they weren’t the first rulers of Ascalon, and hold as much claim as humanity did.

Actually, the Searing was cause by magic from the Titans, which are created in the Realm of Torment and controlled by Abaddon (fallen god). I’m sure you meant the Foefire. Also, the Charr were in those territories long before humans arrived making any kind of claim by Humans irrelevant. If any the Forgotten would have laid claim but their history is too shrouded to say whether or not they were inhabiting the area at the time. They fought against the Charr at Blazeridge Mountain prior to humans arrival but other history says they arrived by the Gods before the humans. The Forgotten are originally from the mists so their place in Tyria is “out of place”. Giants and Jotuns… rock friend! They lack the intelligence and social structure.

We should also consider the Mursaat, dwarves, and the Seers. With Lazarus return to power though brings up other possibilities.

Actually, we do know who the charr took the land we now call Ascalon from:

The Planet of the Grawl”

The grawl are native to Tyria, and Ascalon in particular. The earliest mention of them is found in early charr military tributes that predate the arrival of humans in the area. In these annals, the charr are always portrayed as victors with the defeated grawl pulling the charr commanders in great chariots. The charr dominated the grawl, forcing them into the Shiverpeak and Blazeridge Mountains and beyond, where they lived at a subsistence level.

With regards to the ‘rightful heir’ – the swords were granted by the human gods as a means of protecting the human kingdom of Ascalon. I highly doubt that when they gave them out, they were thinking that the Khan-Ur had a historical precedent over Doric’s line and thus that the charr should be able to undo anything that was done with the swords. If the gods were thinking of the charr at all, they were probably thinking of something to keep the charr out.

Particularly since there are indications, such as the charr fighting the Forgotten in the Blazeridge Mountains, that the charr were encroaching on sacred places and the human invasion of Ascalon may have been a response to that. The Foefire ritual may have been intended as a case of “use this, and it will destroy your kingdom but it will bog the charr down so they can’t press on to Arah, and when the charr are beaten back your heir can fix it”. However, with Adelbern caring more about Ascalon than the greater good, he didn’t care about Orr and waited until Ascalon was going to be destroyed either way.

Rytlock’s attempt to do it himself seemed to be based on the idea that it was just a matter of getting the correct pieces of regalia together and performing the right ritual. It’s possible that this is actually accurate: who does it is not important, and the connection to Ascalonian royalty is simply that you need the crown and Sohothin to undo what was done with the crown and Magdaer… but that he performed it at the wrong spot. However, it’s also possible that Rytlock misunderstood something – one possibility, for instance, being that the scroll he found says something along the lines of “the wearer of the crown of Ascalon”… but he’s taken it literally when it was intended metaphorically.

Grover.8753:

Narcemus.1348:

The problem with this theory that the rightful heir is a charr is that the artifact that caused the Searing is human bound in nature, being made by the gods. It seems highly unlikely that a prophecy about a human used artifact would be about a charr. Not impossible, of course, just unlikely. Plus, you have to think about the fact that that the Charr took Ascalon. We don’t know who from, but their history speaks of spreading from North and West of the Blazeridge Mountains and moving into Ascalon, see Ecology of the Chart. So they weren’t the first rulers of Ascalon, and hold as much claim as humanity did.

Actually, the Searing was cause by magic from the Titans, which are created in the Realm of Torment and controlled by Abaddon (fallen god). I’m sure you meant the Foefire. Also, the Charr were in those territories long before humans arrived making any kind of claim by Humans irrelevant. If any the Forgotten would have laid claim but their history is too shrouded to say whether or not they were inhabiting the area at the time. They fought against the Charr at Blazeridge Mountain prior to humans arrival but other history says they arrived by the Gods before the humans. The Forgotten are originally from the mists so their place in Tyria is “out of place”. Giants and Jotuns… rock friend! They lack the intelligence and social structure.

We should also consider the Mursaat, dwarves, and the Seers. With Lazarus return to power though brings up other possibilities.

Apologies, you are correct. I had meant the Foefire, not the Searing.

draxynnic.3719:

Actually, we do know who the charr took the land we now call Ascalon from:

The Planet of the Grawl”

The grawl are native to Tyria, and Ascalon in particular. The earliest mention of them is found in early charr military tributes that predate the arrival of humans in the area. In these annals, the charr are always portrayed as victors with the defeated grawl pulling the charr commanders in great chariots. The charr dominated the grawl, forcing them into the Shiverpeak and Blazeridge Mountains and beyond, where they lived at a subsistence level.

With regards to the ‘rightful heir’ – the swords were granted by the human gods as a means of protecting the human kingdom of Ascalon. I highly doubt that when they gave them out, they were thinking that the Khan-Ur had a historical precedent over Doric’s line and thus that the charr should be able to undo anything that was done with the swords. If the gods were thinking of the charr at all, they were probably thinking of something to keep the charr out.

Particularly since there are indications, such as the charr fighting the Forgotten in the Blazeridge Mountains, that the charr were encroaching on sacred places and the human invasion of Ascalon may have been a response to that. The Foefire ritual may have been intended as a case of “use this, and it will destroy your kingdom but it will bog the charr down so they can’t press on to Arah, and when the charr are beaten back your heir can fix it”. However, with Adelbern caring more about Ascalon than the greater good, he didn’t care about Orr and waited until Ascalon was going to be destroyed either way.

Rytlock’s attempt to do it himself seemed to be based on the idea that it was just a matter of getting the correct pieces of regalia together and performing the right ritual. It’s possible that this is actually accurate: who does it is not important, and the connection to Ascalonian royalty is simply that you need the crown and Sohothin to undo what was done with the crown and Magdaer… but that he performed it at the wrong spot. However, it’s also possible that Rytlock misunderstood something – one possibility, for instance, being that the scroll he found says something along the lines of “the wearer of the crown of Ascalon”… but he’s taken it literally when it was intended metaphorically.

Ah, very good stuff there! The grawl slipped through the cracks on that one. It’d be quite humorous to see Grawl take a claim on territory. They too are able to wield magical artifacts. Would a lesser race be allowed to claim the lands though??

Though the gods may not have intended the Charr to wield such power, the fact that Rytlock is able to wield Sohothins power says that it’s possible. Good point on the crown, too. Perhaps it is also required to fulfill requirements for completing the proper ceremony and in fact it won’t matter AT ALL which race completes it long as they have all the artifacts.I don’t think it was performed in the wrong place though as it is “The Foefire’s Heart”, but maybe it needs to be performed and the birthplace of the swords where the Gods and Humans originally arrived in Orr. I highly doubt the Gods wanted the humans to destroy themselves just to save some land. By doing so still led to their defeat which left the land to, once again, be claimed by the Charr.

Thanks everyone for taking part in the discussion. I don’t know why but I get excited when we start talking about possibilities, lore and what may come. I wish there were more books. I’ve read them all three times over.

The ‘not being the true King’ aspect is one of the theories as to why the ritual wasn’t a complete success. It’s possible, for instance, that the portal Sohothin jumped through was a failsafe – if anyone who’s NOT the true heir gets their hand on the sword and tries to use it for the ritual, the sword gets pulled into a safe location where it can be retrieved and returned to worthy hands.

That said, something to note: Barradin’s crypt isn’t “The Foefire’s Heart” – that’s in the ruins of Ascalon City, towards the northeast of Plains of Ashford.

draxynnic.3719:

The ‘not being the true King’ aspect is one of the theories as to why the ritual wasn’t a complete success. It’s possible, for instance, that the portal Sohothin jumped through was a failsafe – if anyone who’s NOT the true heir gets their hand on the sword and tries to use it for the ritual, the sword gets pulled into a safe location where it can be retrieved and returned to worthy hands.

That said, something to note: Barradin’s crypt isn’t “The Foefire’s Heart” – that’s in the ruins of Ascalon City, towards the northeast of Plains of Ashford.

Ya. i looked at the dungeon since that’s where it was retrieved. It’s been so long since I’ve gone through those parts of the story. I was looking at the dungeon map and misidentified it as the same part of the story. In the center of the dungeon is the Waypoint I was wanting to talk about. That’s where it should’ve been performed.