Guild Wars 2

I’ve been thinking about the Living Story and how it played out. When we got introduced to Scarlet I didn’t mind it too much, she was pretty much the new main enemy to go for.

When they gave more lore to Scarlet, writing the short story and such, a lot of people questioned the story and how pretty silly it was. Me as well, thought that she aced the Asura colleges was pretty too much.

I started to think about her race. Why a Sylvari? Did this whole story surrounding Scarlet become pretty meh because she was a Sylvari?

What if Scarlet was a Largos? You know, these russian accent underwater butterflies with masks. I know the story must have played out diffrently towards the end if that was the case.

Scarlet being a Sylvari, was that one of the main reasons why she wasn’t interesting enough? Imagine now Scarlet being a female Largos instead, and maybe without that Harley Quinn act, would that have been better?

The story being played out very similar to what we had, but with the underwater dragon being the target instead of Mordremoth.

Hmm Sexy Russian accented blue skinned largos Scarlet instead of sylvari Scarlet
Yeah I would be completely ok with that version instead of one we got especially if we got largos as a playable race at the end of it

The real question is what would happen if Scarlet was human? What would the community’s reaction to her be then?

Apparently humans are the most played race in GW2 already and really theres not that many examples of a good sylvari character in the game already. So some players already don’t like the sylvari. Their only interaction with a major character sylvari being Treherne and Scarlet. Scarlet’s first problem was some people didn’t give her a fair start, her second problem was she just seemed kind of too perfect, graduating all asura colleges, forming impossible alliances, etc. The third problem was she kind of started getting better at the end but by then everyone already wrote her off as a mary sue.

The only race that would have made her character more convincing would have been an Asura, but even then she would still not be popular, break a lot of lore and generally not get accepted by the player base.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The real question is what would happen if Scarlet was human? What would the community’s reaction to her be then?

Apparently humans are the most played race in GW2 already and really theres not that many examples of a good sylvari character in the game already. So some players already don’t like the sylvari. Their only interaction with a major character sylvari being Treherne and Scarlet. Scarlet’s first problem was some people didn’t give her a fair start, her second problem was she just seemed kind of too perfect, graduating all asura colleges, forming impossible alliances, etc. The third problem was she kind of started getting better at the end but by then everyone already wrote her off as a mary sue.

It really depends on what you mean by major character. Caithe is also a Sylvari, and has a presence in the dungeon story, as well as some parts of personal story (if non Sylvari). She also still maintains an air of mystery from the living story.

I don’t see Scarlet graduating all colleges as too far fetched. Sylvari are born with knowledge already accumulated from the dream, so it’s possible that there’s just been a good build up of information she’s had access to already. It’s just that she’s the one who was curious enough to bother. Many Sylvari feel content staying at home.

Sera.6539:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The real question is what would happen if Scarlet was human? What would the community’s reaction to her be then?

Apparently humans are the most played race in GW2 already and really theres not that many examples of a good sylvari character in the game already. So some players already don’t like the sylvari. Their only interaction with a major character sylvari being Treherne and Scarlet. Scarlet’s first problem was some people didn’t give her a fair start, her second problem was she just seemed kind of too perfect, graduating all asura colleges, forming impossible alliances, etc. The third problem was she kind of started getting better at the end but by then everyone already wrote her off as a mary sue.

It really depends on what you mean by major character. Caithe is also a Sylvari, and has a presence in the dungeon story, as well as some parts of personal story (if non Sylvari). She also still maintains an air of mystery from the living story.

I don’t see Scarlet graduating all colleges as too far fetched. Sylvari are born with knowledge already accumulated from the dream, so it’s possible that there’s just been a good build up of information she’s had access to already. It’s just that she’s the one who was curious enough to bother. Many Sylvari feel content staying at home.

I was typing that with the assumption that most of the player base is not sylvari. But for examples of good sylvari I was talking about Sieran, Gavin, and from what I hear Malyck (Though I havent played that story).

Interesting idea. We already assume that Kasmeer’s clothing is “an illusion”(I forget the reference…) so what if Scarlet’s whole facade was an illusion?

The only fly in the ointment would be that when she died, all the illusion would fade away…unless we didn’t kill the “real” Scarlet.

Farzo.8410:

I started to think about her race. Why a Sylvari? Did this whole story surrounding Scarlet become pretty meh because she was a Sylvari?

Not so much about her being a Sylvari. Even if she was a Largos, with the kind of writing, dialogues, and story-telling they did this last “season” will still end up as a meh. The whole thing is a meh, not just Scarlet.

Now if they change her attitude, her demeanor, to someone more calculating, tactical, and less insane, and everything she did tied very well together (we still don’t know why she sent Mai to infiltrate the Council), she would have been taken more seriously — alas, instead all we got were lame “die! die! die!” dialogues.

Change of race doesn’t solve the character issues Scarlet had, like acing all of the asura colleges in record time… which, if anything, would be an asura thing to do. It’d only make people like her because players would attach sex appeal to her, which isn’t really needed with female characters and only serves to further undermine them and make them even more cliche. (For example of the latter of this statement, just read the second post)

Scarlet’s issues lie within her personality and road to getting to where she is, not because she’s a plant.

Ashabhi.1365:

Interesting idea. We already assume that Kasmeer’s clothing is “an illusion”(I forget the reference…) so what if Scarlet’s whole facade was an illusion?

The only fly in the ointment would be that when she died, all the illusion would fade away…unless we didn’t kill the “real” Scarlet.

Scarlet was an Engineer not a Mesmer, the most she could have done is create a holographic version of herself.

Anyway, lets hope she stays dead, she tainted enough of the Living Story with her presence already.

Edit – As for picking Sylvari, it was a strange choice by the writers. Marshal Twig was universally hated, Canach was not very well liked when introduced (Though more liked these days). Going Sylvari a third time after several failures seems senseless to me.

People say Forgal and Tybalt are amazingly well written characters, no one ever talks about that Sylvari one, you know, the irritating one that you do not know the name of. This to me shows that it is not just the character but the race at fault.

did not mean what I wrote to sound demeaning
I was simply just stating my opinion while playing with idea in my head
and I don’t think it would undermine her along as the devs played it right and didn’t make it sound clique

I think an underwear dragon could be the next best thing that could happen to this game other than a black hole dragon (with, of course, the ability to create black holes to destroy his enemies).

Brother Dulfite.5793:

I think an underwear dragon could be the next best thing that could happen to this game other than a black hole dragon (with, of course, the ability to create black holes to destroy his enemies).

underwear dragon

Very amusing typo.

Aedelric.1287:

People say Forgal and Tybalt are amazingly well written characters, no one ever talks about that Sylvari one, you know, the irritating one that you do not know the name of. This to me shows that it is not just the character but the race at fault.

You mean the one I mentioned by name 4 posts up? Sieran?

I don’t see anybody ever mention Forgal but I atleast see people bring up Sieran. Not as often as they should but a lot of people probably never met her. I mean really who looks at the priory when choosing an order and thinks it sounds exciting? Not even me, but I ended up loving it the most out of all the orders.

@Rainbow Sprint.3215

Forgal is mentioned almost as much as Tybalt, the Sylvari who I already forgot the name of, no one ever mentions her, for good reason. We have yet to get a Sylvari with an actual strong likable personality, problem is that Sylvari are either emotionally kittened or insanely naive and neither qualities lend itself well to creating such a personality. I think the race chosen for Scarlet is as big an issue for disliking her as the characterization itself is.

I have never heard anyone mention Forgal, except to say he was sort of bland.

Insulting Sieran however, thems fightin words. Screw your washed up apple salesmen, Atleast Sieran developed as a character during your time with her.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

I have never heard anyone mention Forgal, except to say he was sort of bland.

Insulting Sieran however, thems fightin words. Screw your washed up apple salesmen, Atleast Sieran developed as a character during your time with her.

My mesmer’ll never get over that apple salesman. Nor my ranger. sniff

My engineer still cries at nights in respect to Sieran.

I have a guardian that really, really doesn’t see why she should have to accompany Forgal anywhere, and looks forward to the moment she doesn’t have to anymore.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

I have never heard anyone mention Forgal, except to say he was sort of bland.

Insulting Sieran however, thems fightin words. Screw your washed up apple salesmen, Atleast Sieran developed as a character during your time with her.

Guess we read different posts, I have heard him hailed many times as second only to Tybalt.

Who is Sieran again? :P

Sieran’s my favorite Sylvari (besides my chars, of course)! I wish I could adventure more with her.

But yes, please, let’s have villains be something other than Sylvari. I want my main’s race not to be villains at every turn.

Couldn’t we have done a Flame Legion Charr or something like in GW1? Or human, like in GW1?

Or an Inquest Asura (which would have made more sense with acing all the Asuran Colleges)?

Lorelei.7809:

Or an Inquest Asura (which would have made more sense with acing all the Asuran Colleges)?

If a race change was to be had, this is the one that I’d have liked to see the most. There aren’t as many major asuran characters that permeate the story, less so of them Inquest, and the Inquest are actually a pretty interesting faction, I find. At least, it’d make the character more believable in terms of acing the colleges, since that’s basically a huge part of their lives and is something that an asura would actually study, train and work towards… and make it seem like an accomplishment, rather than a footnote.

I like sylvari, they’re my favorite race, but I’d rather see them in villainous roles that pertain more to them (as in, makes more sense for it to be sylvari — like a arc primarily featuring he Nightmare Court doing things on their own as an organization).

As side notes, I liked Sieran so much more than Forgal. Forgal was an uninspired carbon copy of “Gaming War Vet” that I’ve played enough games to experience and gotten my fill of. Sieran, on the other hand, was a fun, optimistic, cheerful, adventurous person who took on challenges… which isn’t as common, and makes her just a bit more fun to experience.

I am a huge fan of Kudu, so I would prefer an asura BUT! I think Anet chose a sylvari because there are bonds between Pale Tree/Dream/Sylvari/Forest Dragon that we havn’t seen yet.

Makes sense, if they had used a asura it wouldn’t worked out how they planned it unveiling mordremoth
Because as of now each of the 5 main races ( 6 if I’m right and largos will be made playable) have a elder dragon to go with them

Humans- Zhaitan
Norn- Jormag
Asura- Primordus
Charr- Kralkatorrik
Sylvari- Mordremoth
(Possible) Largos- DSD/Bubbles

Farzo.8410:

I started to think about her race. Why a Sylvari? Did this whole story surrounding Scarlet become pretty meh because she was a Sylvari?

What if Scarlet was a Largos? You know, these russian accent underwater butterflies with masks. I know the story must have played out diffrently towards the end if that was the case.

Scarlet being a Sylvari, was that one of the main reasons why she wasn’t interesting enough? Imagine now Scarlet being a female Largos instead, and maybe without that Harley Quinn act, would that have been better?

The story being played out very similar to what we had, but with the underwater dragon being the target instead of Mordremoth.

1. Nah mang, a lot of folks just don’t like her because she sucks, not because of the whole evil she-weed.

2. Lel, that’ statement lad. Race would have made a slight change, but overall nah.

3. A male largos would have been better in that case, that look cooler, butter fly wings an’ all.

4. How do we even know it was the jungle dragon? was dis’ evar confirmed? alotta’ folks be sayin’ it iz dey dragon of nature but wif’ no proof on the matta. It looked like the underwater one if anything, relating even further to the largos.

Leshain.6720:

Farzo.8410:

I started to think about her race. Why a Sylvari? Did this whole story surrounding Scarlet become pretty meh because she was a Sylvari?

What if Scarlet was a Largos? You know, these russian accent underwater butterflies with masks. I know the story must have played out diffrently towards the end if that was the case.

Scarlet being a Sylvari, was that one of the main reasons why she wasn’t interesting enough? Imagine now Scarlet being a female Largos instead, and maybe without that Harley Quinn act, would that have been better?

The story being played out very similar to what we had, but with the underwater dragon being the target instead of Mordremoth.

1. Nah mang, a lot of folks just don’t like her because she sucks, not because of the whole evil she-weed.

2. Lel, that’ statement lad. Race would have made a slight change, but overall nah.

3. A male largos would have been better in that case, that look cooler, butter fly wings an’ all.

4. How do we even know it was the jungle dragon? was dis’ evar confirmed? alotta’ folks be sayin’ it iz dey dragon of nature but wif’ no proof on the matta. It looked like the underwater one if anything, relating even further to the largos.

It’s been confirmed that it was Mordremoth that woke up. Even in the cinematic you can see that it goes towards Brisban Wildlands. While in the woods they go underground where Mordremoth was sleeping.

Why do you write in such a weird way? It makes it really annoying to read.

Aedelric.1287:

People say Forgal and Tybalt are amazingly well written characters, no one ever talks about that Sylvari one, you know, the irritating one that you do not know the name of. This to me shows that it is not just the character but the race at fault.

I don’t think you’re looking hard enough or speaking to enough players. Sieran is every bit as good as Forgal and Tybalt, with respect to development and potential emotional impact. Subjectively, depending on who you speak with she may even be better.

Personally, I liked my optimistic, cheerful sylvari mentor just as much as I liked my warrior father-figure and apple-joking goofball pal. As she was my first character’s mentor, the impact was bigger with her than the others. Perhaps more people went with Vigil or Whispers first, making the other two more important in their eyes.

---

As for the overall thread subject:
In any case, I don’t know that anything would have been improved with Scarlet being a different race. We don’t honestly know much about the Largos, as our interactions with them currently are in a handful of situations: one as an ally, from the shadows and seemingly without most of our NPC allies even being aware of it, here and there on the path to Orr and others as minor NPC interactions - both as adversaries and as friendlies - in skill point challenges or the like.

To go from such a tiny representation to a major, year-long adversary character has its own potential issues with respect to player buy-in. Why would a member of a race that is pretty secluded/reclusive and seemingly not one that trusts or is trusted by the players’ races suddenly become an accepted member of the asura colleges and freely move about within Tyrian societies? On the other hand, sylvari are known for their curiosity and dedication to a cause after awakening, already have "ins" throughout Tyria with the other races, and provide a lot of neat theorizing about what exactly the Pale Tree could be or ideas that might give more meat to the conflict between the Nightmare Court and the rest of the Sylvari (and even the Soundless). It’s true that making her a largos might have presented an opportunity to learn more about the race through her, but I can’t help but feel it would have raised more eyebrows and questions than answered and been even weirder than a sylvari who wow’d everyone she met.

I understand that I am just one person and cannot attempt to represent a large/significant percentage of the GW2 player population, but I do feel that the negativity associated with Scarlet comes not from her race but from her ability to do whatever she wants/the devs want the villain to do. She’s got super intellect, advanced engineering skills, endless resources, endless minions, etc. Make her human, charr, asura, largos, kodan, tengu, whatever -- I don’t believe that would affect how the collective whole of her lore and background was received.

Scarlet being a Largos would have been even worse. Largos seem largely mistrusted by most of the other races (Trehearne doesn’t even let Sayeh reveal herself to the Pact as a whole for fear of causing a panic), so having a Largos go and study with the Charr and Norn and Hylek and then having her go and master the Asuran colleges would have been even sillier than it was with Scarlet being a sylvari.

Likewise, her making alliances out of different factions would have seemed even more odd. I believe Krait and Largos have a pretty fierce hatred of one another, so even approaching to convince them to join an alliance would be pretty much out of the question. And none of the other races seem likely to follow a Largos either.

I guess maybe it could have worked if they had pretty drastically altered Largos-Scarlet’s backstory to the point where she was working from the shadows and manipulating everything and not overtly studying with the other races and forming alliances. And that probably would have made her seem less like a “Saturday morning cartoon villain” type, which many would have liked. But how do you work insanity (which was ultimately caused by overtly working with the Inquest) or the dragon angle into that?

All in all, I don’t think Scarlet could have been a Largos without so many story revisions that it would have pretty much been a different story altogether. Nor do I think any other race would have particularly worked except maybe an Asura.

scarlet would have been better if they would have given some personality her race had nothing to do with it.she was bland(due to hardly no personality triats) as a villian whereas seiran in the priority was awesome little too bubbly for my tastes but actually reminded me of someone i know so i can relate to her just couldnt relate or understand to scarlet.

Largos work alone or in master-student relationships, and even then one wouldnt have enough pull in the world to make this kind of thing happen (Sylvari do as one of the 5 races).

Electro.4173:

Scarlet being a Largos would have been even worse. Largos seem largely mistrusted by most of the other races (Trehearne doesn’t even let Sayeh reveal herself to the Pact as a whole for fear of causing a panic), so having a Largos go and study with the Charr and Norn and Hylek and then having her go and master the Asuran colleges would have been even sillier than it was with Scarlet being a sylvari.

Likewise, her making alliances out of different factions would have seemed even more odd. I believe Krait and Largos have a pretty fierce hatred of one another, so even approaching to convince them to join an alliance would be pretty much out of the question. And none of the other races seem likely to follow a Largos either.

I guess maybe it could have worked if they had pretty drastically altered Largos-Scarlet’s backstory to the point where she was working from the shadows and manipulating everything and not overtly studying with the other races and forming alliances. And that probably would have made her seem less like a “Saturday morning cartoon villain” type, which many would have liked. But how do you work insanity (which was ultimately caused by overtly working with the Inquest) or the dragon angle into that?

All in all, I don’t think Scarlet could have been a Largos without so many story revisions that it would have pretty much been a different story altogether. Nor do I think any other race would have particularly worked except maybe an Asura.

Yeah, almost every Largos you see in-game is there to assassinate someone/something.

Leshain.6720:

Farzo.8410:

I started to think about her race. Why a Sylvari? Did this whole story surrounding Scarlet become pretty meh because she was a Sylvari?

What if Scarlet was a Largos? You know, these russian accent underwater butterflies with masks. I know the story must have played out diffrently towards the end if that was the case.

Scarlet being a Sylvari, was that one of the main reasons why she wasn’t interesting enough? Imagine now Scarlet being a female Largos instead, and maybe without that Harley Quinn act, would that have been better?

The story being played out very similar to what we had, but with the underwater dragon being the target instead of Mordremoth.

1. Nah mang, a lot of folks just don’t like her because she sucks, not because of the whole evil she-weed.

2. Lel, that’ statement lad. Race would have made a slight change, but overall nah.

3. A male largos would have been better in that case, that look cooler, butter fly wings an’ all.

4. How do we even know it was the jungle dragon? was dis’ evar confirmed? alotta’ folks be sayin’ it iz dey dragon of nature but wif’ no proof on the matta. It looked like the underwater one if anything, relating even further to the largos.

Dont male and female largos look nearly identical?

Everything is more interesting than a tree.