Guild Wars 2

… can they please not have the usual rectangular shape? Using mountain ranges to mark the borders of zones is so incredibly clunky. I’d like to see a smooth transition from a zone to another without the need to border the map with hills on every side.

How do you propose they enable such a transition then.
The zone portals are necessary, you can’t just have an open field that when players reach a certain point they suddenly go to the loading screen. The game is also designed on the GW1 engine which worked in the same way.

The mountains are necessary to obscure the fact that each zone ONLY contains the models for that zone. If you could see beyond them then you would have to render multiple zones at once, which means people’s computers would have to work a lot harder.

Hi from what i understand as cool as it would be they use a heavily modified version of there first game engine which used this current type of zoning although i dont understand how they could not have added it during the engine update but apparantly it is still not possible so they use the mountain range to hide the fact it is only an instanced map

I would love it to be seamless like well nearly all MMO games these days but it is the technology they have to work with so i have learned to live with it, I suppose the one big advantage with this type of mapping is they can add allot more detail per map unlike other games which have to deal with the illusion of seamless mapping, i cant imagine how long the game would take to load if say lions arch before destruction if they had to seamlessly load it in to Kessex hills.

This mapping type is also the reason i think they don’t add mounts etc.

but perhaps in future if they have indeed got a new engine like i heard on the grapevine, this type of mapping maybe replaced with the map stream like other mmos

This is what i understand i maybe wrong but it seems to make sense imo

FlamingFoxx.1305:

How do you propose they enable such a transition then.
The zone portals are necessary, you can’t just have an open field that when players reach a certain point they suddenly go to the loading screen. The game is also designed on the GW1 engine which worked in the same way.

The mountains are necessary to obscure the fact that each zone ONLY contains the models for that zone. If you could see beyond them then you would have to render multiple zones at once, which means people’s computers would have to work a lot harder.

What i think he i trying to say is that he wishes that the maps would be more in keeping with other games like WOW or other persistent mmos not just a sudden load screen imo

because lets be honest, this type of mapping is pretty dated tbh they used this type of mapping back in 1999 with games like half life etc they just made it more obvious by adding portals, if i’m honest I would prefer the WOW style of mapping as this would really enhance the scale of the world further and should be a standard for a persistant world mmo, but with the technology they use it is not possible so i have learned to deal with it

It’s not a dated mapping system at all, in fact a large majority of MMO’s use a similar system. FFXIV has instanced zones separated by loading screens, as does Aion, etc.

Persistant worlds are great, but they do require sacrifices in other ways. By having instances Arenanet can focus on making sure that each map is of a high quality. Also it makes absolutely no difference to the game if it’s persistent or instanced. You go through a loading screen occasionally, so what?

FlamingFoxx.1305:

How do you propose they enable such a transition then.
The zone portals are necessary, you can’t just have an open field that when players reach a certain point they suddenly go to the loading screen. The game is also designed on the GW1 engine which worked in the same way.

The mountains are necessary to obscure the fact that each zone ONLY contains the models for that zone. If you could see beyond them then you would have to render multiple zones at once, which means people’s computers would have to work a lot harder.

I Would say a fancy shiny line along the ground. Also even if you stick with the portals, the zones dont have to be rectangular.

oh don’t get me wrong i can understand the reasoning for them to use the current mapping system, and i understand also that sacrifices have to be made for a stream/portaling system – and though at first it did bother me i have learned to live with it and i can see the shear amount of detail they can use in each map and this would not be possible for the wow style of mapping.

I personally find it quite limiting as it feels less immersive to have the loading screens but the positives do out way the negatives of this system

even wow has different maps loading it is just dealt with differently they use a BSP portaling system that is why it give the illusion of a vast world, and it is just an illusion but it works imo – but as i mentioned in my first post i cant imagine this game keeping its current high level of quality if they implimented such a system so ANET Does benefit with the system as it is – I just would really love it if they did a portaling system like WOW elder scrolls etc but it is more of an asthetics thing – at least if i do get lag etc i know it is my connection and not the map loading in the background

so in conclusion – I can understand the reasons for not having that system in the game though i can see the ops reasoning for not liking it

Traveller.7496:

… can they please not have the usual rectangular shape? Using mountain ranges to mark the borders of zones is so incredibly clunky. I’d like to see a smooth transition from a zone to another without the need to border the map with hills on every side.

This!

With such a creative team I thought they would come up with a better way to do zones…

well to be honest I was really disappointed we had “zones” at all. I thought Tyria this time around would be an open world. But That is just going to be something this world is lacking (VERY disappointing).

I don’t know what else they could do but a more random shape to the mountains would be a good start.

I think I was misunderstood a bit. I don’t mind portals as zone transition. I just don’t like zones that are drawn with a ruler. Now look at the world map – all zones are shaped like rectangular boxes. Some of them (like Orr) have a water border, so it’s not as bad, but most have some kind of mountain border, making them look like a box, not natural at all. Maybe when we get new zones, we could see a transition in a wide, open area instead of a clunky mountain pass? And have different shapes of zones as well.

Traveller.7496:

I think I was misunderstood a bit. I don’t mind portals as zone transition. I just don’t like zones that are drawn with a ruler. Now look at the world map – all zones are shaped like rectangular boxes. Some of them (like Orr) have a water border, so it’s not as bad, but most have some kind of mountain border, making them look like a box, not natural at all. Maybe when we get new zones, we could see a transition in a wide, open area instead of a clunky mountain pass? And have different shapes of zones as well.

Many games have portals of some sort as a zone transition, and that’s fine, there is no reason for an entire world map to be available at any time anyways.

The Problem I had was that all the mountains run exactly north and south, east and West, even on the maps themselves and not just the borders. On the portals between maps, they are ALL cleverly hidden in passageways so you can’t get a view of a map before you go there or get the sense that there’s more out there.

There’s nothing to break that. There’s no Canyons or walls separating the map (except walls in one area). It would be neat to see a canyon we can’t get across, and we get to see a vast plain/forest/desert/etc. out there that we just can’t explore yet, if we ever do. It would still give us a sense that Tyria is a big place, because right now….there’s no sense that Tyria is actually that big of a place, because beyond the borders of the map when you can see beyond the map, there’s nothing, that or just mountain, because….Reason!

Orr is a good example, but against the OP’s initial proposition. I mean, if the sudden rectangle of mountains is annoying, what do you call the “Something something strong currents, if you proceed you will be pulled back” pop up? I much prefer a mountain in my way.

Not even they’re rectangular, but their colors are so lamely different when you view the world map. The 3D zones themselves can have whatever colors they want, but the world map could at least be slightly edited to make zone borders blend with each other.

I do not usually talk about breaking immersion in games, but this thing is one.

zoejo.2317:

Orr is a good example, but against the OP’s initial proposition. I mean, if the sudden rectangle of mountains is annoying, what do you call the “Something something strong currents, if you proceed you will be pulled back” pop up? I much prefer a mountain in my way.

I would actually Prefer a ‘Legendary Krakken’ or something that is Immortal and hunts your sorry trespassing kitten down and swallows you or something.

Then, instead of having a set boundary, you could wander into its territory a little bit atleast, kill a few exotic sea creatures, try to open several chests, all while trying to not get your head chewed off.

Every map that has ‘strong currents’ could have a different boss that hunts you down. Orr could have undead, Southsun could have a special Karka, Sparkfly could have Tequatl himself hunting you down, etc.

Instead of a super giant, immortal killer boss, there could be something surrounding one of the orr maps like poison or acid, and the further you swim into it, the more damage you take over time. It gives you a chance to explore just a little further to find a secret treasure chest or something, but it is 100% your fault if you stay there too long.

They could make round maps, but they’d basically just be squares with the corners filled in with mountains

CureForLiving.5360:

They could make round maps, but they’d basically just be squares with the corners filled in with mountains

Thank you!
If they were to create a shape other than squares it would be artifically induced, which we already do have – the edges of the map that you can walk to are not perfectly straight.

Side topic, I just realised why having instanced zones are a good idea:

1. Lighter loading times for the player.
2. Modular system to incorporate Living World changes. I believe if the open world was seamless, updating Kessex Hills to include the Tower of Nightmares would mean having to re-render the entire world map all over again, which would be a waste of time.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

How do you propose they enable such a transition then.
The zone portals are necessary, you can’t just have an open field that when players reach a certain point they suddenly go to the loading screen.

Well, Everquest 1 in 1999 did have some zones where open fields transitioned you into the next zone through a loading screen. I’m sure Anet would be equally capable of that if they want to. Although rectangular mountain ranges are the easy/cheap way out, I guess.

However, going with the apparent limitations of their engine they could still make non-rectangular zones by leaving larger parts inaccessable and at least give the illusion of a more varied landscape. The inaccessable portion isnt going to eat budget/time since it can just be empty rock texture, players cant see it after all.

But you’re then producing wasted map space. The way they have set it up means that there is as much to be explored as possible. You also have to take into account that the GW1 map dictates a lot of what needed to be on the GW2 map. There were a lot of landmarks that they had to carry over.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

But you’re then producing wasted map space. The way they have set it up means that there is as much to be explored as possible. You also have to take into account that the GW1 map dictates a lot of what needed to be on the GW2 map. There were a lot of landmarks that they had to carry over.

The maps still didn’t need to be square, or round, or triangular. There is absolutely no limitation in a computer program that forces you to make square shaped maps and you can make just as large of a game area with a realistic shaped valley.

Chrispy.5641:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

But you’re then producing wasted map space. The way they have set it up means that there is as much to be explored as possible. You also have to take into account that the GW1 map dictates a lot of what needed to be on the GW2 map. There were a lot of landmarks that they had to carry over.

The maps still didn’t need to be square, or round, or triangular. There is absolutely no limitation in a computer program that forces you to make square shaped maps and you can make just as large of a game area with a realistic shaped valley.

They have realistic shaped valleys, they’re within the bounds of the map. There are limitations on their particular system. Game Engines aren’t just a ‘do whatever the kitten you want’ kind of thing, someone has to code things in order to make them work.

The physical map shape HAS to be square, you’re suggesting that they basically create artificial boundaries further inside the square in order to give the illusion of a shape. But as I said before, doing so creates a whole lot of pointlessly inaccessible areas on the map – it would be a waste of space. The current map boundaries aren’t hugely immersion breaking, I think you can just deal with it.

He is not even talking about borders and portals and seamless maps. He is just requesting that the new zones aren’t shaped like a four sided object. Instead perhaps adding some valleys and noodling a the map a little more. Maybe use the cut off space for jumping puzzles or caves.

Some of the Asura city area’s are good examples of alternative map design (alternative to the mountain boxes). They definitely can do it. There’s area’s where you can fall to your death as borders, some big drops that lead onto another part of the map, it’s quite nice.

So for bordering I guess we just have Mountain Walls, Water Walls, Falling to Death and maybe Castle Walls, Nature Walls (dense bush, giant fallen tree). Oh and the good old Broken Bridge across the river or canyon.

I’d like to see some “natural” shaped zones myself. I don’t care about how we zone, but please, no more rectangles. (If this gets interpreted as “I want circles” I might lose some grey matter against some very unfortunate walls)

Actually, I’m not really sure I understood what OP meant. Sure, while the zones on the World Map are rectangular (for easier segmentation, I believe), if you were to physically run around the map with your character and trace and outline of the zone by hugging the leftmost wall, I don’t think you’d end up with a box. :/

Heraldusluminare.2946:

Actually, I’m not really sure I understood what OP meant. Sure, while the zones on the World Map are rectangular (for easier segmentation, I believe), if you were to physically run around the map with your character and trace and outline of the zone by hugging the leftmost wall, I don’t think you’d end up with a box. :/

True enough, but i think his concern was more about the way they actually look on the map not where you are actually allowed to run.

don’t worry, when new zones come in it’ll only be around for 2 weeks then removed