Guild Wars 2

How many books show you the exact connection during the first chapters?

lordkrall.7241:

How many books show you the exact connection during the first chapters?

Well, I could name a few, but the Hobbit sells it right away, as does Lord of the Rings. We know exactly what the end of the book is going to be like. I could go digging in my box of books and probably come up with some others, too.

“Waiting for the Galactic Bus” by Parke Godwin sets absolutely everything up early and it’s all just following the drama through the pages.

“The Icarus Hunt” by Timothy Zahn gets into motion fast and while the clues are slow to arrive? Almost all the important pieces to later mysteries are in the first handful of chapters. Similarly, “The Conqueror’s Trilogy” from the same author gives you a lot front-loaded – it’s a trait which is common in his work from what I’ve been reading.

BUT . . .

“The Vor Game” by Lois McMasters Bujold on the other hand, uses its first few chapters to set up almost a completely different story from the rest of the book, yet it’s essential. The same goes for the rest of the series, which I would say is worth a read.

“Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn” by Tad Williams might well set up the stakes in the first act of the book but there’s no way of realizing just how deep the problem is until much later.

There’s absolutely no way in knowing just what the heck is going to happen in “A Song of Ice and Fire” from book to book, though you can pretty much trust the characters to act consistently . . . you view events through a limited third-person perspective so a lot of things come out of nowhere. I refuse to spoil here any event which may have been a headliner on gossip sites this summer

HawkMeister.4758:

And that is another major problem!
I would´ve liked to just log in to the game and read up on the story so far, just to make sure what´s going on.

And I cannot!
Instead I have to hunt through a Wiki Encyclopedia (yeah that helps with fun & immersion) or scour the site for some short stories.

That’s why I think they should have an in-game journal like they have done with your personal story although I would make it a bit more user friendly. They can also put in their little short stories from the website into the journal. Bios on notable characters, a bestiary, packed with supporting images because not everyone likes walls of text.

Also this ‘journal’ could be current with the latest content almost like a quest helper to keep people informed on what is exactly happening and what is required of you.

The Anet team do seem to be aware of these issues, and I do believe they are capable of turning what they have got into a good story. You have to admit though, it does feel very disconnected so far. Good stories don’t give you all the answers. However they also lay out a clearly developing plot path from the first page. So far, Anet has not given us a clear plot path, which has created the suspiscion that the living “story” is just a series of unrelated game updates.

The best story development and lore about GW2 I’ve seen so far has been in woodenpotatoes videos. There is some fascinating stuff there. Anet just needs to start developing some of those lore ideas and forget about trying to shoehorn anachronisms like elections, holiday resorts and opressive contracts into a fantasy world. It’s a fantasy game, don’t be afraid to write fantasy stories for it.

This interview really needs to be linked in this thread! Lots of story team behind-the-scenes goodness.

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/interviews/exclusive-interview-arenanets-bobby-stein

As usual ArenaNet continues to impress me with their ability to look at themselves. It was very heartening to hear Bobby Stein admit that the Southsun storylines lacked proper ways to direct players to see the content in a linear order.

Order is critical for a story, you don’t randomly jumble the chapters of a book and expect it to tell a good story. The Southsun story was very disappointing to me because I didn’t happen to stumble across the parts needed to understand what was going on.

It is also absolutely critical to be aware how the medium influences the presentation a story. Movies are different from plays which are different from books. Video games have their own strengths and weaknesses and it is very encouraging that the storyteam is realizing they need to think like game designers not just writers.

The updated in-game cinematics will play into one of the great strengths of video game storytelling especially if those cinematics can include our own characters. It is always much more meaningful when we can see our characters taking part in the cinematics.

I hope that we will soon start to see exactly how the SuperAventure Box can possibly be connected to the Molten Alliance and what Ellen Kiel has to do with either. There is such a thing as stringing along your audience for too long and I do not want GW2 to reach that point.

Overall encouraging things to hear.

I personally don’t think EVERYTHING should be connected. SAB connected to every other piece of Living Story? eh

Antara.3189:

I personally don’t think EVERYTHING should be connected. SAB connected to every other piece of Living Story? eh

SAB was for April Fools and not the Living Story.

Antara.3189:

I personally don’t think EVERYTHING should be connected. SAB connected to every other piece of Living Story? eh

People being driven from their home and are sad and scared.
Moto creates the SAB to help people think about something else.
Connection created.

We cant judge the story until we know all of it. Like Lordkrall said plenty of books start with disjointed mini stories only to create something beautiful when it all comes together. My favorite book series does that.. The confederation saga by peter f. Hamilton
even my favorite series babylon 5 does that.

Each LS chapter made it clear there was more to it when what we discovered by the end of it (the hand that joined the charr and dredge together, MR E, Scarlet etc…)

How can anyone judge that it doesnt make sense they way they join together before we even know how they join together?

Simply speak the LS has so far set the stage. We know the characters to some degree but so far we have no clue as to what their motivations are and what they’re trying to achieve. We got a ton of questions. We can only judge the quality of the story when we get access to the answers.

lordkrall.7241:

Antara.3189:

I personally don’t think EVERYTHING should be connected. SAB connected to every other piece of Living Story? eh

People being driven from their home and are sad and scared.
Moto creates the SAB to help people think about something else.
Connection created.

A pointless connection regardless. Not everything needs a connection. SAB is cool and all, but It can be a stand alone invention without having any deep connection behind it imo. There is too much world altering content to expand on versus meddling around with trying to connect small updates

The Super Adventure Box connection might have been a bit of hyperbole can sometimes show up in interviews. Perhaps SAB was not meant to be listed as one of the seemingly disconnected chapters that have been presented.

The only thing I could imagine would be some kind of ST:TNG-esque scenario where the holograms of SAB go crazy and lethal. Or maybe the holograms weaponized somehow to fight the dragons? Which would just be weird but explain why there are SAB weapon skins.

(If they did that I hope they go to SAB v2.0 where the designs are less cutey, although Risen getting ripped apart by little 8-bit bees would be a laugh. If the holograms turn them into karka killers, I wouldn’t care what they look like)

I just hope they get past the dropping hints stage and actually showing what’s going on. Soon rather than later would be preferable.

Ohoni.6057:

So Colin Johanson just added his “looking ahead” blog post, and while it had a lot about mechanics, it had almost nothing about story.

Information that reveals details about a story is called a spoiler.

I have more issue with the living story, that after it is done. It vanishes out of the game and players who do not take part just miss out on that part of the story.

Take for example the Molten Alliance. So how would people know about the story of Rox and Braham without doing those story missions that are not aviable anymore?

With the personal story, or other story elements they stay int he world but the living story just vanishes and thats what I don’t like the most about this new living story stuff. It should add more permanent things into the world where you can explore the lore step by step even if you are a late comer to the game. Imagine a year from now if this continues like that. Someone just starting to play then will have no clue about what happened with the molten alliance, southshun etc.

lordkrall.7241:

How many books show you the exact connection during the first chapters?

I don’t read a book or watch a TV show for 6+ months before it gets good. That’s what a hook is, it’s something that makes you want to get through the exposition, setting the scene, the background to the big tale beyond. We have been at this Living Story stuff for half a year and it hasn’t gotten good.

I don’t need it to be like the game where you fight an giant earth elemental, big robot, giant ghost statue, plant dragon or frozen wurm, but within six months I want something compelling. I don’t want to play through a series of seemingly trivial and weakly connected side stories only to have an “Oh kitten!” moment later on when they actually decide to tell the story. It’s a cheap reveal (it’s not “surprising” because it’s clever, but rather because they simply didn’t tell us anything about it) and it makes your actions for several months at the time feel meaningless.

They said they wanted Living Story to be like your favourite TV show. I wouldn’t watch a TV show for six months if it all the compelling information was revealed later on. We don’t need all the information, but we need enough to make us want to know more and the inconsistencies (which a lot of players are going to miss) they’ve given us are not enough.

Shiren.9532:

lordkrall.7241:

How many books show you the exact connection during the first chapters?

I don’t read a book or watch a TV show for 6+ months before it gets good. That’s what a hook is, it’s something that makes you want to get through the exposition, setting the scene, the background to the big tale beyond. We have been at this Living Story stuff for half a year and it hasn’t gotten good.

I would hope you don’t read a book at all for six months before finishing. Unless it’s “The Stand”, because I don’t know anyone who finished it. Also, most TV shows run for less than six months in a season unless we’re talking syndication; for a lot of series the first season finale has been pegged as “when things get interesting”. So take that as you will . . .

I don’t need it to be like the game where you fight an giant earth elemental, big robot, giant ghost statue, plant dragon or frozen wurm, but within six months I want something compelling. I don’t want to play through a series of seemingly trivial and weakly connected side stories only to have an “Oh kitten!” moment later on when they actually decide to tell the story. It’s a cheap reveal (it’s not “surprising” because it’s clever, but rather because they simply didn’t tell us anything about it) and it makes your actions for several months at the time feel meaningless.

Strangely enough that type of game isn’t unusual in online circles. Pacing issues abound, if any try at all.

They said they wanted Living Story to be like your favourite TV show. I wouldn’t watch a TV show for six months if it all the compelling information was revealed later on. We don’t need all the information, but we need enough to make us want to know more and the inconsistencies (which a lot of players are going to miss) they’ve given us are not enough.

Lost, Fringe, Castle, Sopranos, Doctor Who, Star Trek: Voyager and Deep Space Nine, Babylon 5, Gargoyles, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, and that’s without really straining myself on things I personally have watched in the last twenty years.

Before the more recent years you had largely formless seasons where each show had pretty much its own self-contained story which was only connected to later episodes or earlier ones by the characters. You may, of course, discard the last two if you’re feeling they don’t count. Also, I’m a little fuzzy on shows before the late 1970s which is when I stopped having access to earlier material reliably.

In contrast to those above? Shows like CSI, Law and Order, NYPD Blue, many sitcoms, Person of Interest, the other Star Trek series, and Doctor Who all managed to tell stories which are self-contained but the cast does progress over time and develop. These seem to be what the Living Story feels more like right now – less a single story chopped up into pieces and more several stories with common characters along the way.

If you don’t like that, it’s okay. I absolutely loathe Survivor and its various seasons and imitators. But there are many forms of construction in TV shows and some don’t get interesting in six months of airtime while some don’t develop anything likewise for at least six months. And then there are some which continuously tease mysteries and potential clues to a bigger picture for the first two seasons and then spend the next few trying to solve it to the viewers.

Eldiora.5836:

I have more issue with the living story, that after it is done. It vanishes out of the game and players who do not take part just miss out on that part of the story.

Take for example the Molten Alliance. So how would people know about the story of Rox and Braham without doing those story missions that are not aviable anymore?

With the personal story, or other story elements they stay int he world but the living story just vanishes and thats what I don’t like the most about this new living story stuff. It should add more permanent things into the world where you can explore the lore step by step even if you are a late comer to the game. Imagine a year from now if this continues like that. Someone just starting to play then will have no clue about what happened with the molten alliance, southshun etc.

If you go to cragstead right now and talk to the NPCs there they will tell you about it.

Dont get me wrong, you’ll not get 100% what happened but there is enough to know who the molten alliance was and what it did to people etc..

That being said in an interview Bobby Stein, lead writer on gw2 said that they’re working on an interface to the LS… story. I imagine it will be something like we get for the personal story but thats just speculation cause he didnt say anything beyond they are working on a GUI for it.

Shiren.9532:

lordkrall.7241:

How many books show you the exact connection during the first chapters?

I don’t read a book or watch a TV show for 6+ months before it gets good. That’s what a hook is, it’s something that makes you want to get through the exposition, setting the scene, the background to the big tale beyond. We have been at this Living Story stuff for half a year and it hasn’t gotten good.

I don’t need it to be like the game where you fight an giant earth elemental, big robot, giant ghost statue, plant dragon or frozen wurm, but within six months I want something compelling. I don’t want to play through a series of seemingly trivial and weakly connected side stories only to have an “Oh kitten!” moment later on when they actually decide to tell the story. It’s a cheap reveal (it’s not “surprising” because it’s clever, but rather because they simply didn’t tell us anything about it) and it makes your actions for several months at the time feel meaningless.

They said they wanted Living Story to be like your favourite TV show. I wouldn’t watch a TV show for six months if it all the compelling information was revealed later on. We don’t need all the information, but we need enough to make us want to know more and the inconsistencies (which a lot of players are going to miss) they’ve given us are not enough.

Depends on the medium… A book yes of course, you read the whole story in less then a month so everything is resolved in that span of time. IF its a trilogy though you’re not going to be given everything in the first book and it will take more then 6 month for the next book to come out so it can happen there as well.

Plenty of shows that kept their main premise under wrap for years. Who is red john in the mentalist. What are the shadows in Babylon 5. Who framed Lincoln Burrows in prison break and why. The answer to these questions will make or break the whole story. If they mess up who red john truly is by selecting a character that the fans find proof it couldnt possible have been him/her the whole clever build up to that point will all be destroyed. On the other hand if the choice is a character that fits all the hints people will go ohh right thats why x y z and it will boost to story even more.

Same thing with the living story. If they can tie it together really well, I dont know there is a theory on the forum that the villan behind everything (I am going to put it under spoiler tags even though this is pure speculation by fans but some people might not want to see that either )

But regardless a good / bad ending can make or break stories. What may seem irrelevant when you first read / watch in a story may later turn out to be a pivotal moment in that story based on subsequent events. The same could be the case here. We’ll have to see.

awesomesauce.5980:

BobbyStein.2315:

The stories are connected. You’ll find out more later this year.

Here’s my stance on this, how can the stories act as a hook if we don’t see how they are connected until later this year? Now I know there are minor details that are introduced and left hanging (the silver tongued person behind the Molten Alliance, almost everything to do with Kasmeer and her recurring appearances despite not being obviously involved, the disappearances in Divinity’s Reach, the identities of Mister E and Scarlet etc), but is it good story telling if you are implementing a story which has lots of seemingly trivial plot points (introduced over 6+ months) only to reveal later it was more important than it felt like to the player?

It feels like you are burying the lead with all this stuff and the real story is what’s not being told. Wouldn’t it be better if less of the side story was hidden so players could become invested in connections, giving them something to look forwards to and a purpose to their actions until then rather than constantly feeling like we are involved in unrelated events?

yes and no. Getting hooked is important and the living story can do more on that I agree. But its important to have unknowns as well. I will use the mentalist again as an example. If they had revealed who red john was to us on day 1 and left it a secret only to the characters in the series do you think the series would be better or worst? cause I think not knowing who he really is makes the anticipation of his capture / reveal much greater. If we knew that anticipation would be gone.

Lucky.9421:

Yeah!

And what happened to Evennia???

ANEEEEET! shakes fist

evennia found the scepter of orr i believe, and as a necromancer and a citizen of kryta. She built her own undead army. Hahaha. Jk. I dont know either. Anet, i hope you guys put this in the LS.