Guild Wars 2

Obviously we are all referred to as the Pact Commander in the story and treats us that we’re the only one there, but in the event stories, they do acknowledge that there is more than one player in the field. And most of these event stories are considered something that happened, like the Silverwastes meta or the Dragon Stand meta.

So who are the other players to us exactly? Are they treated as Pact Soldiers as we are Pact Commanders? Or are they actually Commanders too since multiple commanders could exist in a chain of command? Most of the time they are seen as “other adventurers” but in certain meta stories they are considered part of the Pact.

I’d go with neither. The final HoT story instance occurs concurrently with the DS meta. It wouldn’t make sense for the commander to be in two places.

Ayrilana.1396:

I’d go with neither. The final HoT story instance occurs concurrently with the DS meta. It wouldn’t make sense for the commander to be in two places.

You sure? I always thought the DS meta event played out before the two final story missions.

The short cut npc was just implemented so that people playing the story were not bottlenecked by the event.

The way I see it is we are all members of the packt but when we switch over to the story missions the main character (or initiator of the mission) takes over as pact commander.

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

I’d go with neither. The final HoT story instance occurs concurrently with the DS meta. It wouldn’t make sense for the commander to be in two places.

You sure? I always thought the DS meta event played out before the twon final story missions.

The short cut npc was just implemented so that people playing the story were not bottlenecked by the event.

That NPC was always there.

You’re ahead of the pact during the story and it was confirmed during an AMA or something that they occurred at the same time.

EDIT: Found it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4fjrxt/we_are_the_gw2_dev_team_here_to_chat_with_you/d29iwa9/

The only one of these I can attempt to address is the timing of Dragon’s Stand and Hearts and Minds. Both the encounter in the open world and the battle inside the dream are supposed to be taking place at roughly the same time.

I added allied NPCs near the entrance to the Mouth of Mordremoth in one of the first patches after launch that talk about how the main battle there is a distraction so a smaller force can slip in and try to kill the beast from the inside. It is generally believed that just killing the Mouth of Mordremoth won’t be enough as it keeps growing new mouths to replace the lost one.

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

I’d go with neither. The final HoT story instance occurs concurrently with the DS meta. It wouldn’t make sense for the commander to be in two places.

You sure? I always thought the DS meta event played out before the twon final story missions.

The short cut npc was just implemented so that people playing the story were not bottlenecked by the event.

That NPC was always there.

You’re ahead of the pact during the story and it was confirmed during an AMA or something that they occurred at the same time.

I know the npc eas always there. It’s the same for all HoT maps and story missions which I assume was decided on during development to not gate story content behind meta events.

Always made more sense to me that we first killed mordremoths shell and then dealt with his mind.

Ayrilana.1396:

I’d go with neither. The final HoT story instance occurs concurrently with the DS meta. It wouldn’t make sense for the commander to be in two places.

what if it was some high ranking pact soldier who temporarily took over as commander while “you” are away?

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

I’d go with neither. The final HoT story instance occurs concurrently with the DS meta. It wouldn’t make sense for the commander to be in two places.

You sure? I always thought the DS meta event played out before the twon final story missions.

The short cut npc was just implemented so that people playing the story were not bottlenecked by the event.

That NPC was always there.

You’re ahead of the pact during the story and it was confirmed during an AMA or something that they occurred at the same time.

I know the npc eas always there. It’s the same for all HoT maps and story missions which I assume was decided on during development to not gate story content behind meta events.

Always made more sense to me that we first killed mordremoths shell and then dealt with his mind.

Not only did the AMA confirm that the battle between us and Mordremoth in DS and in Hearts and Minds happen at the same time, Canach also says this in Hearts and Minds; “The dragon is focused on the battle outside. We’ll never get a better chance.”

As for the PC, you are the ‘leader’, your PC will see other adventurers as allied forces. So you are both the leader, and an allied force for other leaders. That’s how I see it anyway.

Well, my personal interpretation is that everyone else is another high ranking Pact officer. We know from Living Story season 2 that Trahearne had several other Commanders under him (he was waiting for a report from an airship Commander in one episode). It makes sense for a large multi-national and multi-racial organization to have several high ranking officers, so in essence we are all Pact Commanders.

As for Dragon Stand events, it could just be that while several of the surviving Pact Commanders (i.e. other players) were leading the charge against the Mouth of Mordremoth while you as the First Pact Commander and Slayer of Zhaitan, kill Mordremoth in the Dream. That’s how I interpret it anyway. There is no contradiction if we had other commanders handling things topside while our character in their story finishes the dragon off.

Since all of the PS story lines play out canonically, I imagine my alts that play different story lines to be commanders doing different missions simultaneously. In missions where we all do the same mission, since they are doable in a group, I imagine my alts (or other PC’s) as the other commanders joining the party. Now later on the game switches to a single story thread for everyone, I imagine my main PC is like a ‘first among equals’ situation with the commanders, the other commanders are still there doing the other things.

Haleydawn.3764:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cyninja.2954:

Ayrilana.1396:

I’d go with neither. The final HoT story instance occurs concurrently with the DS meta. It wouldn’t make sense for the commander to be in two places.

You sure? I always thought the DS meta event played out before the twon final story missions.

The short cut npc was just implemented so that people playing the story were not bottlenecked by the event.

That NPC was always there.

You’re ahead of the pact during the story and it was confirmed during an AMA or something that they occurred at the same time.

I know the npc eas always there. It’s the same for all HoT maps and story missions which I assume was decided on during development to not gate story content behind meta events.

Always made more sense to me that we first killed mordremoths shell and then dealt with his mind.

Not only did the AMA confirm that the battle between us and Mordremoth in DS and in Hearts and Minds happen at the same time, Canach also says this in Hearts and Minds; “The dragon is focused on the battle outside. We’ll never get a better chance.”

As for the PC, you are the ‘leader’, your PC will see other adventurers as allied forces. So you are both the leader, and an allied force for other leaders. That’s how I see it anyway.

Good point. Never payed enough attention to that I guess. In that case we can assume:

- during story missions we are the pact commander with othet people being pact forces

- during open world events we are all pact forces

Makes the most sense.

it’s vaguely explained at some point that the guilds exist, and the pact rallies them for support. All other players are kind of regarded as “great adventurers, who represent their guilds as they aid the pact”.
I know it’s a vague description…
But the same with the raids, you as the pact commander weren’t in the raids. You temporarily take the role as an adventurer kittencues the missing pact soldiers.
This is, however, only true for raid 1, for raid 2 it’s not mentioned but I still think you play the “extra adventurer” since Glenna regards you highly.
The same is true for the Dragons’ Stand. While the Pact Commander is in the Heart of Thorns wrestling with the mind of Mordremoth, the alliance of guilds is fighting outside with the mouth of Mordremoth. So if you play the DS meta event, you’re temporarily not the pact commander.

Cyninja summarizes it quite well: During story (and propably some associated events), you’re the Pact-Com, during random events, raids, world meta’s, etc, you’re an adventurer or pact force, or whatever you will.

Ookamikun.6472:

Obviously we are all referred to as the Pact Commander in the story and treats us that we’re the only one there, but in the event stories, they do acknowledge that there is more than one player in the field. And most of these event stories are considered something that happened, like the Silverwastes meta or the Dragon Stand meta.

So who are the other players to us exactly? Are they treated as Pact Soldiers as we are Pact Commanders? Or are they actually Commanders too since multiple commanders could exist in a chain of command? Most of the time they are seen as “other adventurers” but in certain meta stories they are considered part of the Pact.

Don’t think too hard about it — it’s the limitation of “the player is THE hero” story construction, which actually works really poorly in terms of an MMO.

It’s routine, though. Everyone is the single, lone hero who defeated the dragon, saved the world, got the loot, etc. Every MMO does it, save The Secret World, and even then….

all other PCs are my subordinates and if I deign to speak with them they should feel blessed and give me money. including you

Ayrilana.1396:

I’d go with neither. The final HoT story instance occurs concurrently with the DS meta. It wouldn’t make sense for the commander to be in two places.

But the island NPCs in Dragon’s Stand often address you by yelling “Commander! […]”.

In the open world the other players are simply seen as adventurers or Pact soldiers while you and you alone are THE FIRST Pact Commander. Since the PC’s forming of the Pact with Trahearne, there have been other, subsequent Pact Commanders but we’re recognized as the original. In Season 2 chapter “Reunion with the Pact” Trahearne calls for a strategy meeting with a certain Commander Frostgullet who may or may not be one of the newer Commanders who have been operating in the PC’s absence.

As for raids, the other players are seen as mercenaries and explorers (as said in Glenna’s Field Journal) but whether the Commander was involved or not depends on your personal progress as a raider as Squad Leader Bennett has dialogue variants in Bloodstone Fen for raiders and non-raiders when referring to his rescue from Salvation Pass.

Regarding the timing of the Dragon’s Stand meta, it actually occurs more than once lorewise although the actual cinematic of the Mouth of Mordremoth’s death may or may not occur the same way. Aside from Canach’s statement in “Hearts and Minds” about Mordremoth being distracted by a battle outside (which confirms that at least one DS meta event occurs simultaneously with the story mission), we also have the quote from Mike Zadorojny as provided by Ayrilana but also statements from in-game NPCs of the three event lanes such as Laranthir of the Wild whose dialogues differ based on whether you’ve completed the final story instance or not.

There’s thus reason to believe that the Mouth of Mordremoth, which is Mordremoth’s physical body while Mordremoth has already transcended it as an entity of Mind, is fought either twice of thrice depending on one’s interpretation and if the Commander’s involvement in the pre-story instance battle (due to NPCs referring to us as Commander there) is indeed meant to be canonical and happening before “Bitter Harvest” or if it was just added there for the sake of keeping the player who hasn’t completed the final mission in the loop.

Here’s how I see the Dragon’s Stand meta happening given all the clues:

The Pact Commander arrives in the Pact’s camp in Dragon’s Stand and witnesses the Pact already pushing deeper into Dragon’s Domain. The PC decides to help them in order to boost morale and support them, realizing the stakes and believing it’s a sure to make the way to Trahearne and Destiny’s Edge easier before meeting up with the rest of the party. The Pact fights its way to the Mouth of Mordremoth. At this point it’s unclear whether the army prevails or not, but ultimately the Mouth will either remain or renegerate and blast them all out, forcing the surviving Pact members into a hasty retreat to their initial staging point. Thus we get Laranthir and the two other commanders’ statements about Mordremoth being an entity of mind and Dream and that the PC has to venture inside to truly defeat him.

Realizing first-hand that Mordremoth can’t be beaten physically as the dragon can just regrow the corruption and replenish its fallen forces with new clones, the PC attempts a more covert approach by meeting up with the Biconics party in Bitter Harvest, sneaking behind enemy lines, saving Destiny’s Edge and defeating Faolain. After that, the PC’s party continues into the heart of the dragon’s territory while the Pact stages another assault against the dragon, thus seemingly distracting Mordremoth somewhat and prompting Canach’s observation.

The Pact prevails against Mouth of Mordremoth only to see it attempt another lethal attack. However, the Mouth dies seemingly of a stroke and impales itself as a result of the PC’s actions in the Dream against the dragon’s Mind as well as the death of the dragon-possessed Trahearne.

However, as stated by Laranthir and the other commanders if you fight the Mouth after the final story mission, the Mouth regenerates one more time, now as a ravenous being with no Mind of Mordremoth to control it anymore, and needs to be fought a third time to put it down for good. Whether this is caused by the very nature of the Mouth’s abilities or if the released, uncontrollable magic from Mordremoth’s demise (as seen in the HoT finale cinematic) caused a mutation in the Mouth to regenerate it as a braindead being mindlessly repeating Mordremoth’s last DS taunts is unclear. Either way, the Pact defeats the Mouth for good this time, and the Maguuma campaign comes to an end.

Ookamikun.6472:

Obviously we are all referred to as the Pact Commander in the story and treats us that we’re the only one there, but in the event stories, they do acknowledge that there is more than one player in the field. And most of these event stories are considered something that happened, like the Silverwastes meta or the Dragon Stand meta.

So who are the other players to us exactly? Are they treated as Pact Soldiers as we are Pact Commanders? Or are they actually Commanders too since multiple commanders could exist in a chain of command? Most of the time they are seen as “other adventurers” but in certain meta stories they are considered part of the Pact.

It’s especially strange when you group for a story mission. You are all “the Commander” or “the boss”.

Djinn.9245:

Ookamikun.6472:

Obviously we are all referred to as the Pact Commander in the story and treats us that we’re the only one there, but in the event stories, they do acknowledge that there is more than one player in the field. And most of these event stories are considered something that happened, like the Silverwastes meta or the Dragon Stand meta.

So who are the other players to us exactly? Are they treated as Pact Soldiers as we are Pact Commanders? Or are they actually Commanders too since multiple commanders could exist in a chain of command? Most of the time they are seen as “other adventurers” but in certain meta stories they are considered part of the Pact.

It’s especially strange when you group for a story mission. You are all “the Commander” or “the boss”.

don’t worry, only the Instance Leader is called boss, the rest of the party are “friends” or “called upon Pact Champions”

I refuse to admit any of you exist.

Its a complicated subject, but the gist of it is this:

- In the Personal Story, you’re the Pact Commander, and everyone who has joined you are Pact soldiers (not to be confused with your team).

- In the open world, you are the original Pact Commander, and there are also other Pact Commanders, these are the people using Commander pins and running the meta events. For example, in Dragon’s Stand, the person leading each lane is the Pact Commander who is organizing the troops for that assault, and all of the other players are just troops from the three orders and such.

- The original Pact Commander’s role in the open-world events is dubious, but in general its assumed that the story missions take place in-between open-world events, as was established with the original Personal Story, Orr, Dry Top/Silverwastes, and most of Heart of Maguuma, the only exception being Dragon’s Stand meta, which is presumed to take place at the same time in story and open-world.

Amaimon.7823:

Djinn.9245:

Ookamikun.6472:

Obviously we are all referred to as the Pact Commander in the story and treats us that we’re the only one there, but in the event stories, they do acknowledge that there is more than one player in the field. And most of these event stories are considered something that happened, like the Silverwastes meta or the Dragon Stand meta.

So who are the other players to us exactly? Are they treated as Pact Soldiers as we are Pact Commanders? Or are they actually Commanders too since multiple commanders could exist in a chain of command? Most of the time they are seen as “other adventurers” but in certain meta stories they are considered part of the Pact.

It’s especially strange when you group for a story mission. You are all “the Commander” or “the boss”.

don’t worry, only the Instance Leader is called boss, the rest of the party are “friends” or “called upon Pact Champions”

I know. What I’m saying is that it is strange when the NPCs in the story talk to The Commander or “the boss” and there are more than 1 of you but they only talk to one of you. It continues to be confusing to me (since I don’t group for the story often) when someone else opens the instance so I hear their Asura voice answering instead of my character’s or see their character in the cut scenes. And it frankly doesn’t make any sense. I think it was a mistake to make the PC the ONE hero of the entire world in an MMO.

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

Djinn.9245:

Ookamikun.6472:

Obviously we are all referred to as the Pact Commander in the story and treats us that we’re the only one there, but in the event stories, they do acknowledge that there is more than one player in the field. And most of these event stories are considered something that happened, like the Silverwastes meta or the Dragon Stand meta.

So who are the other players to us exactly? Are they treated as Pact Soldiers as we are Pact Commanders? Or are they actually Commanders too since multiple commanders could exist in a chain of command? Most of the time they are seen as “other adventurers” but in certain meta stories they are considered part of the Pact.

It’s especially strange when you group for a story mission. You are all “the Commander” or “the boss”.

don’t worry, only the Instance Leader is called boss, the rest of the party are “friends” or “called upon Pact Champions”

I know. What I’m saying is that it is strange when the NPCs in the story talk to The Commander or “the boss” and there are more than 1 of you but they only talk to one of you. It continues to be confusing to me (since I don’t group for the story often) when someone else opens the instance so I hear their Asura voice answering instead of my character’s or see their character in the cut scenes. And it frankly doesn’t make any sense. I think it was a mistake to make the PC the ONE hero of the entire world in an MMO.

Well.. you can argue about that, to each their own. You’re not wrong or right.
But on another note, raids do something else. Since there’s no pact commander in the raids, only adventurers, anyone can talk and respond to events by being the conversation trigger. Glenna for example will always adress the first player to enter the prison block. After that, the second player to enter makes a quip, and then the last player to enter.
With that in mind, between more bosses, the first player to talk to glenna or pass a certain flag on the map will trigger a quip, and sometimes the quip is even adjusted to the race. The dialogue in raids is actually very good.

Amaimon.7823:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

Djinn.9245:

Ookamikun.6472:

Obviously we are all referred to as the Pact Commander in the story and treats us that we’re the only one there, but in the event stories, they do acknowledge that there is more than one player in the field. And most of these event stories are considered something that happened, like the Silverwastes meta or the Dragon Stand meta.

So who are the other players to us exactly? Are they treated as Pact Soldiers as we are Pact Commanders? Or are they actually Commanders too since multiple commanders could exist in a chain of command? Most of the time they are seen as “other adventurers” but in certain meta stories they are considered part of the Pact.

It’s especially strange when you group for a story mission. You are all “the Commander” or “the boss”.

don’t worry, only the Instance Leader is called boss, the rest of the party are “friends” or “called upon Pact Champions”

I know. What I’m saying is that it is strange when the NPCs in the story talk to The Commander or “the boss” and there are more than 1 of you but they only talk to one of you. It continues to be confusing to me (since I don’t group for the story often) when someone else opens the instance so I hear their Asura voice answering instead of my character’s or see their character in the cut scenes. And it frankly doesn’t make any sense. I think it was a mistake to make the PC the ONE hero of the entire world in an MMO.

Well.. you can argue about that, to each their own. You’re not wrong or right.
But on another note, raids do something else. Since there’s no pact commander in the raids, only adventurers, anyone can talk and respond to events by being the conversation trigger. Glenna for example will always adress the first player to enter the prison block. After that, the second player to enter makes a quip, and then the last player to enter.
With that in mind, between more bosses, the first player to talk to glenna or pass a certain flag on the map will trigger a quip, and sometimes the quip is even adjusted to the race. The dialogue in raids is actually very good.

Well, that’s interesting that there is no Commander in the raids, but I’m not exactly sure why it should be the case. The entire rest of Tyria knows who “The Commander” is, why would the people in the raids not know?

Seems like Anet decided to correct their mistake in the raid environment instead of having all the NPCs treat every PC as thought they were the same person lol.

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

Djinn.9245:

Ookamikun.6472:

Obviously we are all referred to as the Pact Commander in the story and treats us that we’re the only one there, but in the event stories, they do acknowledge that there is more than one player in the field. And most of these event stories are considered something that happened, like the Silverwastes meta or the Dragon Stand meta.

So who are the other players to us exactly? Are they treated as Pact Soldiers as we are Pact Commanders? Or are they actually Commanders too since multiple commanders could exist in a chain of command? Most of the time they are seen as “other adventurers” but in certain meta stories they are considered part of the Pact.

It’s especially strange when you group for a story mission. You are all “the Commander” or “the boss”.

don’t worry, only the Instance Leader is called boss, the rest of the party are “friends” or “called upon Pact Champions”

I know. What I’m saying is that it is strange when the NPCs in the story talk to The Commander or “the boss” and there are more than 1 of you but they only talk to one of you. It continues to be confusing to me (since I don’t group for the story often) when someone else opens the instance so I hear their Asura voice answering instead of my character’s or see their character in the cut scenes. And it frankly doesn’t make any sense. I think it was a mistake to make the PC the ONE hero of the entire world in an MMO.

Well.. you can argue about that, to each their own. You’re not wrong or right.
But on another note, raids do something else. Since there’s no pact commander in the raids, only adventurers, anyone can talk and respond to events by being the conversation trigger. Glenna for example will always adress the first player to enter the prison block. After that, the second player to enter makes a quip, and then the last player to enter.
With that in mind, between more bosses, the first player to talk to glenna or pass a certain flag on the map will trigger a quip, and sometimes the quip is even adjusted to the race. The dialogue in raids is actually very good.

Well, that’s interesting that there is no Commander in the raids, but I’m not exactly sure why it should be the case. The entire rest of Tyria knows who “The Commander” is, why would the people in the raids not know?

Seems like Anet decided to correct their mistake in the raid environment instead of having all the NPCs treat every PC as thought they were the same person lol.

It’s not that the people in the raids “don’t know who the commander is”, it’s that the group in raids “is not the commander and co”. The people in the raid are adventurers, pact personel, etc. They were with the commander in the hunt against mordremoth, and now they chased a group of missing soldiers kidnapped by bandits in the northern part of the maguuma.
The “Commander of the pact” went back home to regroup and discuss the issues of the pact, DE1.0/DE2.0 and attend the funeral of Eir. Just like during the meta event in Dragon’s Stand you’re not the commander of the pact, but a heroic adventurer

Amaimon.7823:

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

Djinn.9245:

Ookamikun.6472:

Obviously we are all referred to as the Pact Commander in the story and treats us that we’re the only one there, but in the event stories, they do acknowledge that there is more than one player in the field. And most of these event stories are considered something that happened, like the Silverwastes meta or the Dragon Stand meta.

So who are the other players to us exactly? Are they treated as Pact Soldiers as we are Pact Commanders? Or are they actually Commanders too since multiple commanders could exist in a chain of command? Most of the time they are seen as “other adventurers” but in certain meta stories they are considered part of the Pact.

It’s especially strange when you group for a story mission. You are all “the Commander” or “the boss”.

don’t worry, only the Instance Leader is called boss, the rest of the party are “friends” or “called upon Pact Champions”

I know. What I’m saying is that it is strange when the NPCs in the story talk to The Commander or “the boss” and there are more than 1 of you but they only talk to one of you. It continues to be confusing to me (since I don’t group for the story often) when someone else opens the instance so I hear their Asura voice answering instead of my character’s or see their character in the cut scenes. And it frankly doesn’t make any sense. I think it was a mistake to make the PC the ONE hero of the entire world in an MMO.

Well.. you can argue about that, to each their own. You’re not wrong or right.
But on another note, raids do something else. Since there’s no pact commander in the raids, only adventurers, anyone can talk and respond to events by being the conversation trigger. Glenna for example will always adress the first player to enter the prison block. After that, the second player to enter makes a quip, and then the last player to enter.
With that in mind, between more bosses, the first player to talk to glenna or pass a certain flag on the map will trigger a quip, and sometimes the quip is even adjusted to the race. The dialogue in raids is actually very good.

[Forsaken Thiket’s raiding wing 2 spoilers, as well as Living Story season 3 episode 1 spoilers, I guess?]

Not entirely right, perhaps even far from right, if I remember all the bits correctly. The pact squad leader you save at the end of Salvation Pass (Benett was his name, right?) addresses you later in Bloodstone Fen in the conversation as someone who took part in the rescue mission, therefore you’re still kind of you even in raid instances. The way I see it is that perhaps, every player gets to think that it’s them who leads the charge, while everyone else beside them is either a random adventurer or a mercenary, as Glenna refers to the raid squad in one of her journals (As far as I remember, it’s the one in her camp in Stronghold of the Faithful).

I kinda want a unique dialogue in an instance if you brought someone else rather than doing solo, just for the heck of it.

I always thought there are possible multiple pact commanders after “absorbing” all of the story instances, with orders happening at the same time too.

Psientist.6437:

I refuse to admit any of you exist.

so if I poke you, I’ll phase through?