Guild Wars 2

I think many will agree with me when I say that the release notes for The Nightmares Within implied that it would be player input progressing the antitoxin bar.

Upon each completion, players will be able to inject another dose of antitoxin, weakening the tower that much more.

…

The Tower of Nightmares content will be available until the tower’s heart is destroyed. Watch the progress as more antitoxin is injected!

However, with the bar being exactly 25% on the 7th day, exactly 50% on the 14th day, and 100% on the 28th day – it’s clear that it was on a timer of some sort.

So why was it implied that players would be affecting it when we clearly were not?

‘Illusion of choice’

you never contributed from the start.

Do you have data to suggest that players were not the reason for the progress?

To me, it’s just a coincidence.

So people knew when the tower was going to go away in game?

Antitoxin was not at 100% last time I looked, and it was recently it was somwhere around 95% and that 5% is wful ton of players, and why do you even care, do you want to extend that content?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Do you have data to suggest that players were not the reason for the progress?

To me, it’s just a coincidence.

http://i.imgur.com/nbqR2HN.png

I do, that is it. I stopped recording around Thanksgiving, but as you will see if you do the math, 25% was at 7 days, 50% at 14 days – and it ended today at 28 days. That’s too convenient to be a coincidence at all.

g e o.2589:

Antitoxin was not at 100% last time I looked, and it was recently it was somwhere around 95% and that 5% is wful ton of players, and why do you even care, do you want to extend that content?

The event is over, where are you seeing the bar at 95%?

I care because if we were misled/lied to about this being player input, it means we can’t trust future Living Story events that claim to require player input. And we can’t trust the Council vote.

Because this is ArenaNet and they try to “fake player input” values in order to give a false sense of player-directed outcomes?…

For the Record… this isn’t the first time this happened. With the “Flame and Frost” story release the destruction of the final event had this same timer.

Indeed it is so…

Charak.9761:

‘Illusion of choice’

you never contributed from the start.

…yes a Mesmer Illusion no doubt…

If it was player input the bar would have increased far more the first few days, slowed down over the next week 1/2, then come to a halt right after the Fractured update.

They’ll just say that the amount of antitoxin injected per player was not constant throughout the event (with injections counting more as the 2-week due date approached). But in the end, even if they technically didn’t lie, they lied.

The suggestion that the Council vote was rigged as well is an interesting thought (though I don’t think that was necessary as everything was clearly stacked against Evon anyway).

Same for Evon/Kiel vote… Player implication is a fake…
(Just look at thaumanova fractal and tel me isnt in LS storylan… And i didnt say " i know 5*+ pple who vote evon", but its true too.)

And yes, its obiousvly a fake Meter xD

I would say it’s likely they designed the concept before actually thinking it through in actual in-game terms. I mean, on paper it’s a pretty cool idea but there was no way it was going to actually work in the game.

First there’s the player desire to rush content. If the progress was truly based on player action, the event could have been finished in days. (and based on percentage of player involvement likely would have been as long as the targets were reasonably considered it would have been). That just wouldn’t work when you’ve locked yourself into the sort of in stone time frames that ANet has chosen for GW2.

Second there’s the required consideration of failure. What would happen if the players failed to inject enough anti toxin? That would have required a completely different following chapter in the Living Story, maybe even to the point where it branched differently for the servers that did inject enough toxin versus those who didn’t. Of course, a deus ex machina could have easily been written in where Marjory or someone magically pulled a super ultra vial of anti-toxin from their rear end at the last minute should the players fail but would that have really been any better than a faked progress bar? ANet recently mentioned in the Collaborative Discussion threads that while they’ve thought about the potential of player failure in the LS, it’s not something they are willing/able to do on that sort of scale.

I don’t believe that the election results were truly faked as the actual impact of the council’s decisions will never be able to be proven as not just written in later for convenience sake, but in this latest chapter, I’d be willing to bet that meaningful player interaction was an illusion all along.

If it were up the players the meter would have taken a huge chunk of time to finish…. if not ever.
One of my biggest concerns with the game is the rewarding and giving incentive to do a variety of activities to gain gold/resources other than just riding the champ train.
I remember the first time I did the Hybrid instance: 50 silver and 3 peices of the key were awarded.
Had they kept this as a daily thing I am sure many players would have regularly done it as it is a quick way to gain 50s aswell as a chest key.

UnknownAssailant.2375:

If it were up the players the meter would have taken a huge chunk of time to finish…. if not ever.
One of my biggest concerns with the game is the rewarding and giving incentive to do a variety of activities to gain gold/resources other than just riding the champ train.
I remember the first time I did the Hybrid instance: 50 silver and 3 peices of the key were awarded.
Had they kept this as a daily thing I am sure many players would have regularly done it as it is a quick way to gain 50s aswell as a chest key.

yeah i thought we could get one key per day nuuuu how wrong i was.

I think it was a combination. Some of it was most likely player-based but they still helped and/or hindered us a bit.
I mean what would happen if people were fast enough to finish it in a week, before the next part was over?
Then people would whine about it meaning nothing, since we still had to wait several weeks for it to update.

Serbaayuu.3051:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Do you have data to suggest that players were not the reason for the progress?

To me, it’s just a coincidence.

http://i.imgur.com/nbqR2HN.png

I do, that is it. I stopped recording around Thanksgiving, but as you will see if you do the math, 25% was at 7 days, 50% at 14 days – and it ended today at 28 days. That’s too convenient to be a coincidence at all.

Your data is inconclusive because what if the initial dose of anti-toxin gradually takes effect over time even without additional player input? And with player input, it just gives it a slight more boost in effect?

You can take a fever reducer medicine and gradually feel better over time, or you can take the medicine every 4hrs to increase its effectiveness but still feeling better will take some time.

My point is, there are other possibilities to safely accept that your assessment is accurate.

StriderShinryu.6923:

First there’s the player desire to rush content. If the progress was truly based on player action, the event could have been finished in days. (and based on percentage of player involvement likely would have been as long as the targets were reasonably considered it would have been). That just wouldn’t work when you’ve locked yourself into the sort of in stone time frames that ANet has chosen for GW2.

Not necessarily. When it comes to anti-toxin or anti-biotics, taking the medicine more often than directed would have not been very effective because you have to let the medicine mutate with the immune system. So no, I highly doubt that player’s input would have hasten the process.

Actually,

It could have reached its final point a week prior, perhaps they haulted it at a certain points throughout the event to pan it out intentionally.

As far as Kiel/Evon vote, I believe the blame is mine as I held off on my vote and missed the oppurtunity to throw all my votes in. Im sure others did the same.

The problem with player driven content is it creates a conspiracy theory.

Now that would be a great new living story event where its a conspiracy and it keeps you guessing on what will happen next. But then people would conplain that they werent there to see a certain set in it which would create yet another conspiracy theory.

Some of you are really grasping at straws. They knew exactly when they wanted it to end, so there’s no reason for them to try and make a complicated, dynamic, player driven meter.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Do you have data to suggest that players were not the reason for the progress?

To me, it’s just a coincidence.

Just like the voting between Ellen and Evon just happened to be 48 to 52% (iirc)?

skullmount.1758:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Do you have data to suggest that players were not the reason for the progress?

To me, it’s just a coincidence.

Just like the voting between Ellen and Evon just happened to be 48 to 52% (iirc)?

Unless proven otherwise, it is coincidental.

But I have reasons to believe that the voting process was rigged from the beginning however my reasons are unsubstantial thus it remains as a theory.

My theory is that Ellen was already destined to win. How I know? Because Mai Trin already mentioned Scarlet prior to the election and we all know that Scarlet’s existence is connected to the Reactor’s explosion. I doubt that we would see Scarlet at the Fall of Abbadon fractal. So, for Evon to win, that would be a complete disconnect since Scarlet and Abbadon has nothing in common.

However the nightmare tower can be purely coincidental.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

skullmount.1758:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Do you have data to suggest that players were not the reason for the progress?

To me, it’s just a coincidence.

Just like the voting between Ellen and Evon just happened to be 48 to 52% (iirc)?

Unless proven otherwise, it is coincidental.

But I have reasons to believe that the voting process was rigged from the beginning however my reasons are unsubstantial thus it remains as a theory.

My theory is that Ellen was already destined to win. How I know? Because Mai Trin already mentioned Scarlet prior to the election and we all know that Scarlet’s existence is connected to the Reactor’s explosion. I doubt that we would see Scarlet at the Fall of Abbadon fractal. So, for Evon to win, that would be a complete disconnect since Scarlet and Abbadon has nothing in common.

However the nightmare tower can be purely coincidental.

Unless Scarlet happened to time travel bad to the Abbadon fight…

I also am disappointed they lied to us. Especially over something like this. It was cheap and tasteless. At least with the abandon thauma nova thing it’s hard to prove on our side they faked that (not saying they did just that if they did we can never really know). This was clearly a hoax

This is some serious nitpicking.

Yes, it was faked. Though, did they ever actually SAY that it was player driven? Or just let us assume that?

Palador.2170:

Yes, it was faked. Though, did they ever actually SAY that it was player driven? Or just let us assume that?

No they did not say explicitly that what we were doing effected how fast the meter moved. But they went out of their way to imply it. That’s the part that I don’t like. I feel like they were trying to trick people which makes me wonder what else they could be deceptive about.

Is it a big deal? Nah not really. But I think it is still worth mentioning in the forums that at least some of us don’t like being intentionally mislead.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

skullmount.1758:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Do you have data to suggest that players were not the reason for the progress?

To me, it’s just a coincidence.

Just like the voting between Ellen and Evon just happened to be 48 to 52% (iirc)?

Unless proven otherwise, it is coincidental.

But I have reasons to believe that the voting process was rigged from the beginning however my reasons are unsubstantial thus it remains as a theory.

My theory is that Ellen was already destined to win. How I know? Because Mai Trin already mentioned Scarlet prior to the election and we all know that Scarlet’s existence is connected to the Reactor’s explosion. I doubt that we would see Scarlet at the Fall of Abbadon fractal. So, for Evon to win, that would be a complete disconnect since Scarlet and Abbadon has nothing in common.

However the nightmare tower can be purely coincidental.

Your assumptions are killing you. We know Scarlet is connected to the Reactor’s explosion now because they’ve released the fractal. But there is no reason to believe Anet had the storyline set at the time of the election.

Considering the amount of time between the election and the release of the fractal, they could easily have come up with their story in that time.

If Evon had won, they would have come up with another storyline. (Though Kiel winning was a certainty, considering how she was portrayed in comparison to Evon.)

As for the 52% to 48% win, considering the antitoxin meter was faked, I wouldn’t be surprised if Anet made up those percentages to make it seem the election was close and thus make players feel they had an impact.

Whether a choice is actually a choice matters not. What matters is that the illusion of choice should be presented as clearly as is possible.

If you get down to it, nothing is ever really a choice. Which is why we, as humans, choose to do anything.

It may be a little of both. I’m sure they knew people wouldn’t do this every day. It’s likely that the toxin level increases at a set pace of (X) antitoxin per day. Each personal injection would affect the formula as X+1, X+2, etc… So on a high volume day, the antitoxin level would increase by (X) + lets say 1000 or something. Of course as interest died down, and the tower could not remain forever, the (X) per day continued to tick away.

Chris RJ.1843:

It may be a little of both. I’m sure they knew people wouldn’t do this every day. It’s likely that the toxin level increases at a set pace of (X) antitoxin per day. Each personal injection would affect the formula as X+1, X+2, etc… So on a high volume day, the antitoxin level would increase by (X) + lets say 1000 or something. Of course as interest died down, and the tower could not remain forever, the (X) per day continued to tick away.

Except that it didn’t increase at a faster rate the first few days..

The proof that the evon vs ellen wasn’t rigged was the fact that they put in art assets into the game coinciding with one or the other winning.

If it was truly rigged then there was no reason to create the evon hologram.

To give the illusion of player impact on the world.

It doesn’t matter. Jeez. They’ve had timers like this for many of the previous living story chapters. It’s just a way for the developers to give people an idea of how long the chapter is going to remain active. That’s all.

When I saw the antitoxin bar, I knew automatically that it had nothing to do with player content, nor did I expect it to. The Living Story chapters run on a strict schedule (usually 2 weeks or 1 month). Think about it. They’re not going to extend the event if the players don’t manage to inject enough toxin into the tower on time, nor would they advance the living story prematurely if the players filled the bar early.

As others said..it’s a big illusion. They want to give u the impression you have an impact when in reality it isn’t. Rember that all progress bars similar to this one have been the same till now. You had no impact and for VERY good reasons. Here are some:

1. What happens when ppl get bored of making that dungeon over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over…………………..and over again just to fill up a fictive bar? Want to wait 4 months before we barely finish that bar just to finish some crappy living story that everyone is fed up with?

2. Scarlet…everyone wants her gone as fast as possible. So giving players the ability to have an impact like this would turn out into point Nr.1 above stated.

Giving “power” to people who are not motivated to use that power or are just plain lazy equals nothing. Consider their “player impact” as rhetorical as “democratic vote”

PeterThomas.7243:

It doesn’t matter. Jeez. They’ve had timers like this for many of the previous living story chapters. It’s just a way for the developers to give people an idea of how long the chapter is going to remain active. That’s all.

When I saw the antitoxin bar, I knew automatically that it had nothing to do with player content, nor did I expect it to. The Living Story chapters run on a strict schedule (usually 2 weeks or 1 month). Think about it. They’re not going to extend the event if the players don’t manage to inject enough toxin into the tower on time, nor would they advance the living story prematurely if the players filled the bar early.

It’s fine for it to be a timer, but it’s not ok for it to be a timer when they say it’s player input.

Draygo.9473:

The proof that the evon vs ellen wasn’t rigged was the fact that they put in art assets into the game coinciding with one or the other winning.

If it was truly rigged then there was no reason to create the evon hologram.

Wheres the proof there are assets for Evon winning? They never showed them ingame. Due to the fact they put out the Ellen assets that fast, kinda seems they already new/wanted Ellen as the winner.

Oh?
I am quite sure that I actually got an email about Evon winning a few seconds after the election was over, due to a bug. So clearly it did exist as well.

lordkrall.7241:

Oh?
I am quite sure that I actually got an email about Evon winning a few seconds after the election was over, due to a bug. So clearly it did exist as well.

Wasn’t that an out of game email? Which wouldn’t require that much to be created for it. Thats why I said in-game. Even if it was a mail in game, thats not really assets.

Nope, it was in-game. There were also audio recorded (not used for either of them in-game though) and holograms for both Kiel and Evon datamined before the election was over.

skullmount.1758:

Draygo.9473:

The proof that the evon vs ellen wasn’t rigged was the fact that they put in art assets into the game coinciding with one or the other winning.

If it was truly rigged then there was no reason to create the evon hologram.

Wheres the proof there are assets for Evon winning? They never showed them ingame. Due to the fact they put out the Ellen assets that fast, kinda seems they already new/wanted Ellen as the winner.

Its called data mining. The assets for Ellen winning and Evon winning were in the .dat file you downloaded. That is why Ellen appeared ‘so fast’ because you already had the files on your computer when she won. If Evon won, he would have appeared just as fast because again, you already had those files on your computer.