Guild Wars 2

Yes, he’s being whiny and destructive. No, we don’t like the direction his behavior is going. But y’know what? We aren’t supposed to. When a protagonist does things you don’t like, that’s an arc in the making, perhaps a fall from grace and subsequent redemption. That’s classic character development. It creates tension, and tension creates emotional investment, and emotional investment creates good stories. Braham might end up being the best thing to happen to this crapshoot of a story so far. Gods know none of the other supporting cast have anything going for them right now. Will he throw a tantrum if Jormag goes silent? Will he amass an army and cause more needless death? I don’t know about you, but I’m excited to find out!

I’m just waiting when till I can drop my “Told you I was right”.

As someone who has defended Brahams writing (specifically considering the connotations of Braham being one of the few people who knows the true circumstances of Eirs death and how, if word got out, it would forever marr Eirs reputation and Brahams issues specificay surrounding the hero/legend surrounding Eir) I agree, Braham isn’t written to be sympathized with (not entirely at least) and I want to know what will turn him around into joining Dragons Watch.

Considering this episodes reveal though, I’ve lost a lot of faith with the writers. There’s only one episode left and if Braham just turns around and joins Dragons Watch only,because Jormag is dormant or,something similarly easy to write that’s completely unrealistic, then I’m not looking forward to GW2s future. I’ll be along for the ride but I won’t enjoy it.

No, we don’t “need to”.

Sure, if I had faith that the writers could pull it off in a believable way, I would wait and see. But I have been waiting since the launch of the game now, and I see some improvements on the process of story telling from Anet, but no real improvements on the story itself. I will be pleasantly surprised if the whole Brahm throwing a tantrum arc actually had a solid payoff, but I really doubt it will be worth the wait based on everything seen so far.

I don’t think Braham will be joining Dragon’s Watch at this time.

Story-wise, the expansion is fast approaching. We’re headed off into a new area, and I doubt it’s going to be north. (Yes, I know about the leaks. But I trust them about as far as I can comfortably spit a live rat.) So, Braham doesn’t come with us at all.

When the expansion ends, we need something to draw us back into the main world some. That “something” is going to be Braham, who’s been up to his own thing while we’ve been gone. He will be the source of the problem that we have to suddenly address, either by finding it or creating it, and that will drag us back to central Tyria.

no, we shouldn’t chill out about Braham
at – this – point – he’s – the – biggest – threat – to – the – survival – of – tyria!

Anet gave us a character to hate. I argue that I am not wrong for hating him. It would be wrong of me not to, probably.

Here is the problem: Braham is a Norn. His character arc for Season 1 and part of Season 2 was to make a Legend for himself, away from his well known mother. The end of Season 2 he starts reconnecting with Eir and is crushed at her death in HoT. Come Season 3 and every norn, Rytlock, and PC do the norn thing: honor her death and remember her epic Legend.

What does Braham do? he mourns. He tries to make me feel like I dont understand how he feels. While he lost his mother I lost two of my krewemates to be golems for eternity, my mentor and friend from my order sacrificed himself for the greater good, I accidentally killed an innocent asura, I was forced to kill one of my most trusted allies for the good of Tyria. He spits on my face. And the writers try to make me feel bad for that. He doesnt wat to talk to me, he’s going to get a lot of norn killed, he makes a new guild called DE, when we execute the plan to sleep the dragons we worry about angering Braham even more. But at this point I dont care about Braham.

I agree with everything the OP says about characters in general: we don’t have to like all of their behavior or agree with all of their stubborn choices.

However, in this case, I have trouble caring about the Braham that’s presented. I feel he’s one-dimensional, inarticulate, and, well, boring. I have nothing against him, but neither do I feel anything for him either. In contrast to Marjory & Caithe — I was stung on the PC’s behalf by Caithe’s betrayal and Jory’s indifference — Braham doesn’t provoke any feelings at all.

Braham reminds me of that coworker/underling that you work with every day. Who has consistently complained about his pay, done a poor job and has yet to quit or get fired. And because of you, the Commander, are a responsible adult— you just smile and nod as he goes about acting like a teenager/college student. Yet all along he directly affects the moral of the team. If you talk about the ‘team’ though, he’ll bring up his pay again and sulk for an entire month; Therefore putting everyone around him on edge.

At least that’s what I get from him. Which is why I play games— to get away from such behavior.

Braham isn’t just loathed because he turned into a puerile POS, but also because the supposed actual protagonist, i.e. the player, is written as a spineless faceless incompetent doormat for his (and other NPCs’) sake.

When the NPCs get all the development (however well or badly written) and all the completely one-sided “friendship” overtures from us while they are never shown caring about us, when in fact they spit in our faces while we are still made to wring our hands in worry about what they think of us … something is messed up big time.

Braham’s grief was treated with respect throughout HoT. I bet many of us, my story main included, didn’t even consider not bringing him for the final fight because of course he should be able to get personal revenge for Eir. That makes his actions now feel even worse. And then there’s his “try losing your mother” verbal attack. A sylvari PC’s mother, the sole source of her people, has been in a coma for many months with no signs of improvement (before the Caladbolg mini-story). A human PC can be an orphan. A charr PC lost their warband, the closest bonds in their society, and as a result almost became a despised gladium through no fault of their own. Can we express any of that? No.

If we were given roleplaying options and race-influenced dialog choices, I think many people would still dislike Braham, but at least there wouldn’t be the irritation of every PC being the same meek punching bag.

Chadramar.8156:

Braham isn’t just loathed because he turned into a puerile POS, but also because the supposed actual protagonist, i.e. the player, is written as a spineless faceless incompetent doormat for his (and other NPCs’) sake.

When the NPCs get all the development (however well or badly written) and all the completely one-sided “friendship” overtures from us while they are never shown caring about us, when in fact they spit in our faces while we are still made to wring our hands in worry about what they think of us … something is messed up big time.

Braham’s grief was treated with respect throughout HoT. I bet many of us, my story main included, didn’t even consider not bringing him for the final fight because of course he should be able to get personal revenge for Eir. That makes his actions now feel even worse. And then there’s his “try losing your mother” verbal attack. A sylvari PC’s mother, the sole source of her people, has been in a coma for many months with no signs of improvement (before the Caladbolg mini-story). A human PC can be an orphan. A charr PC lost their warband, the closest bonds in their society, and as a result almost became a despised gladium through no fault of their own. Can we express any of that? No.

If we were given roleplaying options and race-influenced dialog choices, I think many people would still dislike Braham, but at least there wouldn’t be the irritation of every PC being the same meek punching bag.

THIS! I hate the way they have the PC respond in these situations.

He is actively threatening everything Eir fought (and died) to achieve and my PC would kitten well have told him so. His actions are a disgrace to his mother’s name.

Not that I was that fond of Eir but trying to bring people together and get them to work together towards the greater good was one of the things I at least respected about her.

Braham just throws a temper tantrum, insults those trying to help him, makes a bunch of xenophobic remarks about “Norn not needing anyone else”, insults his mother’s compatriots by hijacking the Destiny’s Edge name and is likely to get lots of innocents killed because he can’t see beyond his own issues like an angsty teenager.

It’s not just that I dislike him, it’s that the brat is a danger to himself and everyone around him and certainly not “hero” material as he can’t see past his own issues. I wouldn’t trust him with anything after this as he has proven to be unreliable. Writers are going to have to do a hell of a job to convince me I would even want such an unreliable element in Dragon’s Watch. (and “otherwise Rox leaves” is not a good argument)

EDIT: spelling

Kyrus.7218:

Yes, he’s being whiny and destructive. No, we don’t like the direction his behavior is going. But y’know what? We aren’t supposed to. When a protagonist does things you don’t like, that’s an arc in the making, perhaps a fall from grace and subsequent redemption. That’s classic character development. It creates tension, and tension creates emotional investment, and emotional investment creates good stories. Braham might end up being the best thing to happen to this crapshoot of a story so far. Gods know none of the other supporting cast have anything going for them right now. Will he throw a tantrum if Jormag goes silent? Will he amass an army and cause more needless death? I don’t know about you, but I’m excited to find out!

Im not sure that its good for the story for (some) players to hope they never see the character again, and to prefer to forget he ever existed.

Glad you are enjoying him though.

I used to like him, now he’s just another logan but more childish & no girlcrush.

marelooke.9708:

He is actively threatening everything Eir fought (and died) to achieve and my PC would kitten well have told him so. His actions are a disgrace to his mother’s name.

Not that I was that fond of Eir but trying to bring people together and get them to work together towards the greater good was one of the things I at least respected about her.

Braham just throws a temper tantrum, insults those trying to help him, makes a bunch of xenophobic remarks about “Norn not needing anyone else”, insults his mother’s compatriots by hijacking the Destiny’s Edge name and is likely to get lots of innocents killed because he can’t see beyond his own issues like an angsty teenager.

It’s not just that I dislike him, it’s that the brat is a danger to himself and everyone around him and certainly not “hero” material as he can’t see past his own issues. I wouldn’t trust him with anything after this as he has proven to be unreliable. Writers are going to have to do a hell of a job to convince me I would even want such an unreliable element in Dragon’s Watch. (and “otherwise Rox leaves” is not a good argument)

EDIT: spelling

And he’s a threat to the entire world now.
If he shoots an arrow in the gut of Jormag, (if) while he is knocked out like Primo, then we’re one step closer to Taimi’s doom scenario.
So some scenarios for chapter 6 would be:
we chase Braham, convince him to stop
we chase Braham, have to knock him out to stop
we chase Braham, too late, he shot the arrow
1 and 2 are wins in regarding of not killing the ED, 3 would be.. propably Kralkatorrik or Balthazar eating up the magical blast. If kralkatorrik eats it, it’s a good window to go to Elona. If Balthazar eats it.. Balthazar can go anywhere. If he eats the magic of Jormag, he can go after any other elder dragon now..
Balthazar god of War and Steam.. nice combo

For the many reasons already stated, Braham went way over the line and the only way to redeem him, in my opinion, at this point would be for him to die and be forgotten forever. Quite frankly even if the bad writing hadn’t hit some personal spots, I would’ve still wished for nothing but Brahams head on a pike after that farce of an episode.

Kyrus.7218:

Yes, he’s being whiny and destructive. No, we don’t like the direction his behavior is going. But y’know what? We aren’t supposed to. When a protagonist does things you don’t like, that’s an arc in the making, perhaps a fall from grace and subsequent redemption. That’s classic character development. It creates tension, and tension creates emotional investment, and emotional investment creates good stories. Braham might end up being the best thing to happen to this crapshoot of a story so far. Gods know none of the other supporting cast have anything going for them right now. Will he throw a tantrum if Jormag goes silent? Will he amass an army and cause more needless death? I don’t know about you, but I’m excited to find out!

Braham is not a protagonist. He is, by definition, a supporting character. My distaste for Braham as a supporting character is rooted in the fact that there is no option for me to do what I would do were I actually in command when faced with someone being a childish kittenhat. This generates a feeling that my contribution to the story resides solely in starting the story, listening to NPC’s emote and my “self” say many things I would not say, and doing almost all the fighting. The only part of that I find enjoyable is the last item.

So, no. I am not being critical of Braham. I am being critical of being forced to tolerate him.

castlemanic.3198:

As someone who has defended Brahams writing (specifically considering the connotations of Braham being one of the few people who knows the true circumstances of Eirs death and how, if word got out, it would forever marr Eirs reputation and Brahams issues specificay surrounding the hero/legend surrounding Eir) I agree, Braham isn’t written to be sympathized with (not entirely at least) and I want to know what will turn him around into joining Dragons Watch.

Considering this episodes reveal though, I’ve lost a lot of faith with the writers. There’s only one episode left and if Braham just turns around and joins Dragons Watch only,because Jormag is dormant or,something similarly easy to write that’s completely unrealistic, then I’m not looking forward to GW2s future. I’ll be along for the ride but I won’t enjoy it.

Wait, what? What about Eir’s death is scandalous? She tried to help someone, who betrayed her, and then tried her best to fight the ferocious beast that killed her. Is it that the vinetooth had to be put down by the player?

She didn’t go down fighting and taking her enemies down with her, which I supppose could be considered shameful in the eyes of some “hardcore” norn. From an OOC perspective, it definitely is shameful (though not for her) that she was so blatantly fridged. Yeah, there’s dignity and strength in looking your inevitable end in the eye, too, but it was still not worthy of the character she was supposed to be, but never got to be in the game. Legendary warrior, force of nature and all.

At least she got to kill Faolain, and good riddance.

Braham will not be our friend in the future, thats for sure. Just look at the minis in Draconis Mons: we have dragonwatch Kasmeer, Taimi, even Rox, but Braham’s mini is taged “lone wolf Braham”.

Braham will never forgive PC for letting Primordus live, and will carry on his Jormag-assasination plan at any cost. In the last LS episode, I guess, we will have a clash with Braham to stop elder dragon murder (and possibly killing/injuring Braham in prosess). Or at least it would be a logical thing to expect from the story.

But considering Ep5 writing I would not be surprised if PC just says something like: “Braham, N-teen years ago I spent a night with Eir… I am your real father!” And they will live happilly ever after, disreguarding the fact that PC is a female charr. But what a twist! What a reveal!

Ider.1276:

But considering Ep5 writing I would not be surprised if PC just says something like: “Braham, N-teen years ago I spent a night with Eir… I am your real father!” And they will live happilly ever after, disreguarding the fact that PC is a female charr. But what a twist! What a reveal!

Sylvari PC’s will get a special different dialog for this point but the Norn PC’s won’t.

I hope Jormag shoves that flaming dinky bow up his whining Norn butt! :P

I don’t have any real qualms about his characterisation. Isn’t he the youngest member of our group, after Taimi? Some of what he says is right. Outside of him acting like my sylvari couldn’t possibly understand loss at the hands of an elder dragon (seriously?), I think his petulance and desperation worked. I don’t think his arc is going to be satisfactorily resolved in this next episode. Like, he might wake up Jormag and that leads into the expansion or something, but I can’t really see how they’re going to tie it up in time. Anet is juggling too many plot threads with little to no pay off. Which works as an ongoing story, but they need to put in better hooks instead of constantly rolling out huge unresolved developments and mysteries.

What I do have a problem with is everyone dumping all over the PC. It’s unnecessary and doesn’t really move the plot in any meaningful way, beyond a throwaway line the PC makes about feeling bad that literally no one wanted to join their guild (at that time).

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

However, in this case, I have trouble caring about the Braham that’s presented. I feel he’s one-dimensional, inarticulate, and, well, boring. I have nothing against him, but neither do I feel anything for him either. In contrast to Marjory & Caithe — I was stung on the PC’s behalf by Caithe’s betrayal and Jory’s indifference — Braham doesn’t provoke any feelings at all.

This, exactly for me as well. Braham feels like a diversity hire. There’s very little to him besides being the token Norn. He’s not even a good stereotype, lol.

Jahroots.6791:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

However, in this case, I have trouble caring about the Braham that’s presented. I feel he’s one-dimensional, inarticulate, and, well, boring. I have nothing against him, but neither do I feel anything for him either. In contrast to Marjory & Caithe — I was stung on the PC’s behalf by Caithe’s betrayal and Jory’s indifference — Braham doesn’t provoke any feelings at all.

This, exactly for me as well. Braham feels like a diversity hire. There’s very little to him besides being the token Norn. He’s not even a good stereotype, lol.

Too right. I could stand to see some other kind of Norn. Someone brought up the grizzled vet that wants the guild to be his legacy. Very cool. It would almost be like having Eir back, given her presence in the early Norn personal story.
And while it would be nice to have the “Yahoo! I’m Norn and diving into combat!” trope, someone who cheerfully beats on everything from blood-crazed beasts to elder dragons, I’d like to see something beyond that stereotype.

Maybe a young Engineer, and he can be an extra mouthpiece for the plot alongside Taimi. She gets flak for being the deus ex of the plot so far and mistress of exposition, so it might help to have a smart, capable Norn scrapper who can keep up with all this brainy stuff.

While we have Canach as a warrior, it’d be nice to see a more primal, possibly berserkery version. Or possibly a lone rifleman, someone who values patience and precision, who makes his legend by boasting of the impossible shots he’s made. He can help loop Rox back into the fabric of the group as well.

But, what we’ll get is a wayward Braham who makes a huge mistake in killing GEORmag, spewing dragon energy all over the world so Kralky can eat it and take us all to the desert. Then he might feel bad enough to join Dragon’s Watch. I hope he doesn’t, and we get a new Norn. Let Braham be a side plot, a competitive force and possible future confrontation. That’d actually be pretty cool.

The only believable interaction that my character could have with Braham at this point is to break his legs, nail his hands to a tree, and leave him to die in the frozen northlands. Anything short of that will violate my suspension of disbelief.

I’d like an older norn shaman companion/friend/mentor, because I’m kinda tired of the brutish brawler/young hothead stereotype and would like to explore the spirituality of their people more instead. That would also give us another source of insight into the world instead of just the “asura magitech this, asura magitech that” spiel that we’re being beaten over the head with this season. (That, as I said before, is something the PS did much better, and even in LS2 we went to multiple sources.)

Chadramar.8156:

I’d like an older norn shaman companion/friend/mentor, because I’m kinda tired of the brutish brawler/young hothead stereotype and would like to explore the spirituality of their people more instead. That would also give us another source of insight into the world instead of just the “asura magitech this, asura magitech that” spiel that we’re being beaten over the head with this season. (That, as I said before, is something the PS did much better, and even in LS2 we went to multiple sources.)

The best thing they could do for the plot at this point would be to let some magic cataclysm happen that just turned off all asuran magitech, or at the very least made it impossible to create more and moved it to a “powerful but rare” status.

It was an interesting component of their race initially, but it has become extremely overused in the story and narrative at this point. I’d like the Charr’s military might to get a chance to shine, or human perserverence, or Norn self sufficiency and boldness. Despite not having yet had an expansion SPECIFICALLY about the Asura, ever since the launch of the game Asuran magitech has been the literal only plot lever that has been used (unless you count suddenly mind-battling Mordremoth)

Omadd’s machine was reponsible for scarlett, who used asuran magitech to wake up mordremoth. Then taimi used asuran magitech (the SAME tech) to bing about the “final solution” to dragons… which she found… in a lab full of asuran magitech. You know, despite having a Tarir full of living witnesses to history that were leveraged as nothing more than glorified babysitters for aurene.

Fractals? Asuran Magitech.

Waypoints? Magitech.

Long distance communication? Magitech.

Literally everything useful is Asuran magitech.

Remind me again why we even needed to form the Pact in the first place. Did we actually need Krait orbs and Charr metalworking and searing cauldron and a magic tree sword, or did we just do all that stuff so people that aren’t Asuran inventors could feel like they were helping?

PopeUrban.2578:

-snippet-

I agree with everything you wrote. Praise be to Balthazar; Savior of Tyria.

armaduras.8972:

PopeUrban.2578:

-snippet-

I agree with everything you wrote. Praise be to Balthazar; Savior of Tyria.

…who also used Asuran magitech to put two dragons to sleep and restore his own power.

@PopeUrban: Exactly. If such a cataclysm happened, I’d dance for joy (especially if it also took out mesmers because they annoy me almost as much). There need to be limitations both in the name of challenges to overcome and in the name of not uselessly sidelining 99.99999999% of the setting.

I want the story to go back to focusing on us bringing together different cultures and organizations with all their unique strengths and resources. I want my character to delve into mysteries and explore ways to solve problems from multiple angles. Where’s the shamanism, the Dream-visions, the unmatched discipline and mechanical expertise of the Legions, the vast knowledge of the Priory, and so on? Hell, for me the most interesting aspects of LS3 so far was the kodan lore from Ep3 followed by the new druid tidbits, and both are mere background mechanics and optional chatter.