Guild Wars 2

Warning this is a spoiler discussion!

On topic:

So what did you think about this epiosde?

I thought it was nice and a good yet bittersweet conclusion to the Human Personal Story and Order of Whisper Personal Story that was gathering dust since GW2 Zhaitan arc.

The Feel Train hit hard at the end especially when Demmi’s final moment is seeing Tybalt.

Though that means no matter what happened back in Zhaitan Arc the Order Mentors would have died no matter what most likely by the hands of the Orrian Scout.

My thoughts: Excellent!

The subterfuge, the set-up, the exposing of the traitors, the treachery. Well played. All topped off with the death of Demmi and Caudecus. Poor Demmi. Although honestly, I haven’t played any character on the Order of Whispers path since the release! I’m not that familiar with her.

I’m very pleased and glad that the story is not focused on the dragons for a change.

Except for the ending I liked this episode a lot. A very beautiful new map, intersting story and some fun things to do. But the death of Demmi kind of ruined it for me.
I was realy excited that she showed up again and then we accompany her for one mission and she dies. Especially because it is another death in a totally stupid cutscene. If she would have died fighting, ok. But no. She has to die while we are letting Caudecus stand around talking. Why are we not right on his heels, so that he can either run away or die? Or did she have to die so that Valette could turn good again for Countess Anise to have another toy? Considering that the player is trying to form a new guild, Demmi would have been a great addition (even if she only would have worked as an informant with very few appearances).

Virtualwargamer.2875:

Except for the ending I liked this episode a lot. A very beautiful new map, intersting story and some fun things to do. But the death of Demmi kind of ruined it for me.
I was realy excited that she showed up again and then we accompany her for one mission and she dies. Especially because it is another death in a totally stupid cutscene. If she would have died fighting, ok. But no. She has to die while we are letting Caudecus stand around talking. Why are we not right on his heels, so that he can either run away or die? Or did she have to die so that Valette could turn good again for Countess Anise to have another toy? Considering that the player is trying to form a new guild, Demmi would have been a great addition (even if she only would have worked as an informant with very few appearances).

Sadly I think it was to bring a little shakespeare plot into the ending being how we may have stopped the Evil beetlestone but his his good daughter dies with him in the end.

Still this Episode is very fun for Human/Order of Whisper characters because there are special dialogues in this Episode if your character is a Human and/or a member of the Order of Whispers.

Though as the story progress now I feel Anet is using Season 3 to remove Destiny Edge 2.0 characters from the “Commander” Group. The story now just points screams everyone in Destiny Edge 2.0 is going to die/go MIA/“reasons” they can’t join resulting in the Commander having to find new people to join Dragon’s Watch as part of the 2nd Expansion storyline.

However, it would be interesting if the 2nd expansion storyline is affected by which NPC we recuit into Dragon’s Watch similar to how we use to have 3 options to choose where our character’s story into Zhaitan Arc storyline goes but probably reduce between choose 2 characters per recuit.

I was honestly genuinely surprised by some of the things that came from this story. I thoroughly enjoyed some of the dialogue, story, and location. There were some things that threw me off (like Anise’s personality) but in general I enjoyed it all. I’m looking forward to where things go from here!

i was happy we finally got to see the purpose of the weird face room! XD
its been in the game forever
when i got to that part i was so happy and wasn’t expecting it

The new map felt great, some pretty places to explore, reasonable enemy challenge, hidden places.

I’m sad that they took the care of bringing Demmi in the story and make her die on us in a lame way. I honestly thought having a thief venom/pistol-whipping gal would have been a great addition to Dragon’s Watch.

I loved seeing the Queen confront the White Mantle and pick them one by one in front of the palace. I said to myself “She’s more powerful than me?!?!”

Canach’s snideful banter and Taimi’s megalomania stole the show, as always. Good job on the writing!

the story instances, missions and fights felt rather…. uninspired. Taking parts in mob-spawning-out-of-nowhere events, doing the heart events for a progress bar on top of a progress bar (I already did map completion before the story because i wanted to explore). And Caudecus part 1 is a joke, the riddle room was boring (but i loled at the faces) and Caudecus part 2 is a camera-shake mess and CC spamfest.

I honestly thought i got more real info on the story by reading the E. and Caudecus letter snippets.

I really liked it.

Logan really surprised me. I hated him during the personal story, but he actually came across as likable in this chapter. Honestly, I was kind of disappointed that he didn’t join DW, but I totally understand his position.

I was also a tiny bit disappointed that Canach didn’t want to join since I really liked him, but it’s fine, I imagine that he’ll be around, you don’t need to be part of the same group to be friends.

I didn’t really have much feeling toward Demmi. I actually didn’t even remember who she was, but apparently she’s an Order of Whispers character, so that’s understandable given that I went with the Priory. I imagine that for the people that did play through it they had much more of an attachment.

My only 3 real complaints were:

- Unbreakable unavoidable stun prior to Estelle’s encounter during the first part. It’s… pretty aggravating to end up in CC lasting more than a few seconds that can’t be avoided or stun broken.

- The room in the last encounter is too small for the GW2 camera. Fighting with the game itself rather than the enemies inside it is less than enjoyable.

- If it’s going to keep being referenced in the story, then the whole Xera ritual investigation thing needs to be covered in an instance that doesn’t force you to cooperate with other people, because most other people end up ruining the story with constant out of character chatter.

On the camera shake: I’ve had that turned off since the new camera system arrived and engies spammed things in DR to make me downright seasick. I don’t miss it at all (though I imagine there must have been quite a shake when the first jade cannon fire hit the Palace, to explain why several Ministers fell over). I didn’t even realize that was an added issue in the final Caudecus fight. I suggest you go into your Options and toggle off the shake, your life may become much easier if a tad less immersive.

On the unbreakable stun at Estelle: We got that in the Caudecus confrontation in Bloodstone Fen, too. And maybe in other story bits through the years. It’s possibly somewhat clumsy, but it’s how ANet makes characters stay put during scripted dialogue. They always let us go when it’s time to kick butt

Story-wise I was…pleasantly surprised by this episode. Got to kill two treacherous scumbags (Minister Estelle and Confessor Caudecus) in one episode AND Logan comes back!? That made me happy. The lack of resolution of some of the characters from HoT has been bothering me.

Hopefully this is a telling trend that Anet is on the horse with regards to resolving the remainder of unresolved HoT issues in future episodes (Pale Tree’s condition, Nightmare Court’s state, and Zojja’s condition specifically).

I really miss Zojja and I’m worried about her (though I know the voice actor for her, Felicia Day, recently had a baby so maybe here’s hoping Zojja does show up again in Episode 5 or 6).

At the same time I’m trying not to get my hopes up too high. I did that and by the time Episode 3 came out I was so deeply disappointed with the story to the point where I moved onto other games and I just did log in rewards until recently.

From a game play perspective, Lake Doric isn’t Bitterfrost Frontier so that’s an improvement all on its own. :V

EDIT: The fight with Caudecus sucked. An AoE bonanza with little room to fight. Please don’t make another fight like this in the future.

Warning, lots of text. TLDR version at the end.

Positives :

+ First story instance was rather nice all around, from nice little moments like deriding Estelle (and then later killing her), fighting alongside Queen Jennah and the Shining Blade and seeing the watchknights return to take on the jade armors (thankfully no Invasive Weed to hijack them this time). Oh, did I mention getting to kill Estelle this time? Also Logan is sorta kinda back in action which is nice.

+ Lake Doric looks rather nice for the most part, and it’s nice to see some Sentinels helping out the Seraph too, showing how far the peace between the humans and charr has come, and that the charr value this too.

+ Demmi Beetlestone finally returning after years of being stuck in the Chantry closet.

+ Canach. Fun to have around like usual.

+ While marred somewhat by the horridness of the last instance and boss fights, I feel satistfaction knowing that Caudecus is finally dead for good. He had it coming for a long time.

Negatives :

- Kasmeer is nowhere to be found. Save for a few mentions of her earlier in Season 3, we haven’t seen her at all since near the end of the HoT story, with no explanation as to where she’s been or what she’s been doing since then. The past few parts could be excused for this, but not in a story focused back in Divinity’s Reach. Aside from a letter from E mentioning her, nothing…I can’t see her just hiding out while Jennah and Anise and Logan and many others are putting their lives on the line for their home…which makes me worry that the story writers forgot her, or have something bad/contrived in mind.

- While Logan is okay, this makes me wonder if they plan to have Zojja just die offscreen, which I wouldn’t like. Also, I can’t help but scratch my head at him becoming the Pact Marshal. I see no great reason why he shouldn’t (recovery aside), yet him wanting to do this seems…odd.

- While Lake Doric was a fairly nice looking map, the hordes of White Mantle you have to deal with can make it painful at times…especially the fort infiltration renown heart (which may be the worst one I can think of since the Blazeridge Steppes stealth heart) and the part where you have to just do events and stuff to build up a bar when you already know the final fight is at Caudecus’s Manor.

- The final instance of Caudecus’s Manor…was badly done. Either those behind it don’t play the game or didn’t care and felt like being sadistic. A bunch of the enemies were rather overpowered, and the final boss fight (both versions of it) were horribly done. I’m aware it’s been adjusted by now, but it was so bad that I’ve no desire to go back and play it at all in the near future.

- Demmi is dead. You brought her out of the Chantry closet for all of one or two instances to just to fatally wound/kill her off in a cutscene. I’m not okay with that.

- Valette Wi’s sudden heel-face turn felt contrived. She was trying to help Caudecus kill us all, but now she suddenly has a change of heart on seeing Demmi get fatally shot? Seriously? It felt like a plot device so we could get into the final riddle room, to be honest, when Demmi could’ve known or found out about the room somehow. Literally the only way this makes any sense is if Caudecus had mesmered Valette under his influence and seeing Demmi get shot somehow shocked her system out of it. Otherwise…bleh.

- Canach is finally free to help us…except he won’t be. I get that he probably wants some nice long alone time, but I’m going to miss him now.

- And, because it seems the story writers still think cliffhanger/twist endings aren’t annoying….Lazarus is/might be an imposter? Cue wild speculation…sigh. I’m still more worried about Kasmeer than Marjory at this point though.

- My character talks Anise down from killing Valette. No. I would not spare Valette or even suggest the thought. It’s nice she helped us (as silly and contrived as her face turn was), but the most she’s getting from me after that is a quick and painless death.

TLDR : It started off okay, was still tolerable early on, then became annoying, than frustrating. And I’m tired of endings that leave us with more questions than answers. I’m not really in the mood to run it again right now. If it weren’t for Caudecus finally being dead and the first instance being pretty good, I’d probably had rather seen the fallout of Braham’s idiocy.

Nilkemia.8507:

- While Logan is okay, this makes me wonder if they plan to have Zojja just die offscreen, which I wouldn’t like.

I sure hope they don’t do that. :\

I hoped to the end that Canach is going to die… Poor Demmi died instead. I cried.

I am so happy that in the story we didn’t get USA politics.

Nilkemia.8507:

- Kasmeer is nowhere to be found. Save for a few mentions of her earlier in Season 3, we haven’t seen her at all since near the end of the HoT story, with no explanation as to where she’s been or what she’s been doing since then. The past few parts could be excused for this, but not in a story focused back in Divinity’s Reach. Aside from a letter from E mentioning her, nothing…I can’t see her just hiding out while Jennah and Anise and Logan and many others are putting their lives on the line for their home…which makes me worry that the story writers forgot her, or have something bad/contrived in mind.

My friend suggested that Kasmeer might be Queen Jennah while the real Queen Jennah’s kept in a safe place.

I suggested to him that she made some errors in acquiring her elite specialisation and got lost in time.

the story was good, but the episode was filled with time-sink garbage like “just go do stuff”

dont care at all about order of whispers, vigil is where its at.

i did find it interesting that this is another primary character who didnt want to join the new guild (why did we even make a new one instead of keeping destinys edge?)

but the main points of this episode is that the queen doesnt wear shoes, and logan is the new pact leader.

+ Canach. He’s my favorite, and I loved seeing him. I’m glad he’s free now, but I do hope he doesn’t disappear from the story. He’s one of the best characters in their main cast.
+ Fighting alongside Jennah was fun. I always felt kind of lukewarm about the character, but this made me like her more. I was pretty shocked to see how powerful she is… Like, she can bubble the entirety of DR??? kitten , girl! You deserve that title. Honestly, I don’t know why we aren’t just having Jennah shatter the elder dragons to shreds.
+ Demmi. I loved seeing her again. Coincidentally, I did the introductory Whispers arc on a lower level character the day before the episode came out, so Demmi and her arc was extremely fresh in my mind! It was so cool to see a minor character like that brought back in. MORE OF THIS PLEASE. It was great to get a sense that she’s grown and has been training in the chantry for years now.
+ Exploring Cadecus’ manor. So many fun easter eggs in that instance. Finding that mesmer and her illusion of Faren lol… I died. Cadecus’ ceiling mirror and portrait of Logan. So funny. Please keep the humor present!
+ The plot/story. I enjoyed the parts which actually told the story – the political intrigue was fun. I would love to see MORE of that, but set in OTHER racial homes. Humans seem to have this interesting political life but none of the other races seem to do anything interesting… We had a lot of good Sylvari drama in HoTs, would be great to see more stuff set in Hoelbrek, Black Citadel, and Rata Sum.
+ A new Kryta map. Just fun to return to an “old” area.
+ Jennah doesn’t wear shoes. I really AM intrigued by the fan theory that Jennah doesn’t actually exist, and is simply an illusion Anise has been fabricating for years. They’re both extremely powerful. And with all the hints that Anise is much older than she looks, well, color me curious. I’d love to see Jennah and Anise explored more.

- Demmi’s death. While it was a big twist and hit me right in the feels, I really think the character had more stories to tell. She could have had a WHOLE LIFE after finally being free of her father. I suppose therein lies the tragedy, but I’m just sad to see another good female character go. I don’t see a lot of male characters dying tragically in this way, especially when the death could’ve been avoided. I mean, Demmi is an agent of the order – you think she could dodge a bullet (or at least see one coming).
- “Go out and complete a bunch of events to continue the story.” I really hated that, mostly because I did map completion first and then focused on the “episode” content afterward. It was really irritating to find out that the content was simply repeating the renown quests and doing events. I mean, the initial “go to these four points and see how our forces are doing” set you up to explore and complete the map anyway. Maybe don’t ever do that again, please?
- Kasmeer. I’d very much like to see her again. Please protect her and keep her safe. Bring her back to me. Let her be with her bae Majory. I really hope she’s been doing something super bad kitten the whole time she’s been missing.
-The final battle was atrocious. It’s since been fixed, but I hated it so much it’s worth mentioning.

Guys, there is an official feedback thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Official-Feedback-Thread-Episode-4-Head-of-the-Snake-1/

@Svennis: Agree with every single one of your points, especially the map completion vs. story arc forcing you to do everything all over again, because you didn’t know (majorly annoying, as I did the map completion first as well). As for Kasmeer, she’s been on a mission with Anise — hopefully we’ll find out more soon. Love Canach, too, so I do hope we will see more of him!

Arden.7480:

I am so happy that in the story we didn’t get USA politics.

That’s irony, right?

Tiny Doom.4380:

Arden.7480:

I am so happy that in the story we didn’t get USA politics.

That’s irony, right?

It must be, because — even as a non-US citizen — I could see the innuendoes, which got quite a few smirks out of me.

Arden.7480:

I hoped to the end that Canach is going to die… Poor Demmi died instead. I cried.

Because she was as memorable as Jory’s sister – Mirinda or whatever – one story apperance and died. Such tremendous character with insane impact on player…

On topic.
As for episode:
It was boring with artificialy prolonged time wee needed to spent in it by unskipable dialogs and “fill this bar to progress in the story” crud, oh and cunning mr.C became a basically 60’s Bond villan level stupid.

One of the worst episodes we’ve had.

I totally loved this LS. Caudecus was a just the best character by far, had me in stiche’s with his wise cracks more than once, we need more of him please. It was a truly sad moment when Demmi die’s wish she could have join the PC to fight the elder dragons R.I.P, whisper4life. The only think that annoyed me , probably more than it should have done. Was just how bad arss the Necromancer boss was summon skeleton arches WTF!!!!!. I was players as a Necro M/M build with loads of minion’s and I felt like I had brought my soft toy collection to show him. he’s standing there laughin at me "you call those undead minon perfectic! As he summons skeleton archer’s to fight me =, ( Not fare Anet where my army of skeleton undead, sort it out? Other than this annoying moment it was a great LS episode can’t wait for more.

I thought it was pretty good. Given how the very beginning of Gw2 for me was pretty much the human personal story, which btw I found much more entertaining than the rest up to HoT, so this was a good time to go revisit all the conflicts and characters that have been going on.

I gotta say, LS3’s been great.

i will say Canach won the show his banter in the “Face room” killed me I hope he is back for more Witty cracks