Guild Wars 2

Put simply.. I’m asking that you add more time to it . 10 to 14 seconds is not enough for the average player. Can’t really speak for the rest out of respect but for myself and who would agree……14 seconds to use a skill that is majorly buggy on a map that has incredible amounts of lag is insane. The timer on the skill itself is needed I fully agree but the limit u put on it dealing with the present conditions described above is altogether frustrating .

The second problem I have with the skill is all the pre phantom jumping before an actual jump takes place only to find myself warped to a distant or worse. undesirable location. can’t begin to tell you how many times I’ve raged at the screen trying to attempt “very easy jumps” only to find myself no where I was trying to be.

The 3rd an final reason I’m asking for this very needed extended time for the assisted jump aspect is that in my personal life… I suffer from a form of nausea that triggers upon my eyes trailing fast moving objects or better put … Visually Induced Motion Sickness , also known as {VIMS}. although common in most, my particular illness hits abit harder then most with an after effect of a severe headache.

now I realized that the following comments will prob be in the neighborhood of “well why are u still playing if that happens to you”, " you can just leave the game.. etc etc and etc….. whatever.. I can tolerate a great deal of the content if certain actions don’t require twitchy screen movements ( " THE MAD KING JP almost killed me ..")I hated the fact that I never could attempt it more then once per hour. Now in Dry top , the Rushing to get to certain spots on the map within the window of time while dealing with lag an the phantom leaps are recreating that problem for me all over again.

Again not asking for much , just more then the 10 to 14secs (feels like 5 sometimes ) that is currently in place .

Flame on . I’m sure its coming ….

Not going to flame you about it, but requesting gamewide feature changes for edge cases (like motion sickness or lag) that are outside the median experience (the game is designed around users connecting at a good rate, that are reasonably tolerant of rapid camera movements like those found in virtually all modern video games) Isn’t really a great idea.

The “average player” is what the cooldown and mechanics were designed around. Your particular issues creat difficulties with it, and I’m sorry for you, but these issues aren’t the game’s problem, or the problem of the medikittener, they are very specific edge cases that fall outside the expected user experience.

You simply can’t design around every single outlier. It’s impossible.

the aspects in dry top really don’t last long enough, though.

In most areas of Dry Top, you can hit multiple aspects along the way; that refreshes the time you have.

I don’t have VIMS and so I can’t speak to that, but I do have trouble with timed jumps (I either take too long aiming or rush and misjudge the jump/skill). But I think increasing the time available would nearly eliminate any real challenge to the puzzles, and thus make it tedious (rather than fun) for the vast majority of players.

ANet is always in a balancing act, between making sure that nearly everyone can access the content and making sure that it is enjoyable for those that can. That means, unfortunately, that there are always going to be people who are left out.

I would recommend you find a partner to do these with, especially a mesmer. They can help rez, port you back to a good starting place, and, when necessarily, shortcut the most annoying steps. I also find it more fun. That might not be the solution you are hoping for, but it’s one within your control, instead of waiting for ANet to re-re-reconsider how to balance the content.

Very solid points made by both. Just to be clear . I’m not begging anet to redo their content just for me or more to the point others like myself. I’m simply asking for a bit of common sense when it comes to creating a feature like the aspect of assisted leap and then trying to use said skill in a window of 10 to 14 secs (still feels like 5 to me ) to frantically make a jump that neither caters to a storyline nor “puzzle” . i just want to ascend to a top of a boulder an know it neither required a “mez” nor a shot of Dramamine , or two other meds not really worth mentioning.
Do you really want me to believe adding a few seconds more would hurt the integrity of the new content.
Think about that for a sec. I mean really digest that. I realize asking anet to make any sort of meaningful change is pretty much pointless. I’m simply addressing an issue that goes on ignored if no one ever speaks on it .
Pope , although i agree with your statement “You simply can’t design around every single outlier. It’s impossible”. You can however take into consideration a small detail that for the most part would be over looked. Had the new content been release with the assisted leap skill set at 20secs or 30secs for that matter…. I’d very seriously doubt that not one player would of started a forum on the matter of "THIS ASSISTED LEAP SKILL lasts entirely to long ". I implore anyone to challenge that. but as you say Illconcieved, it is what is . somehow the phrase ’Sucks to be you " comes to mind as i read your post .

‘The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate for the stormy present and future. As our circumstances are anew, we must think anew and act anew.’

And so must we, ladies and gentlemen. We need to look at this old issue in a new way. Not simply for today but to make our tomorrows more rewarding, more fulfilling, more compelling because of the changes we make today. With your help we can think anew, and act anew on the new issues before us today."
-Lincoln.

PopeUrban.2578:

Not going to flame you about it, but requesting gamewide feature changes for edge cases (like motion sickness or lag) that are outside the median experience (the game is designed around users connecting at a good rate, that are reasonably tolerant of rapid camera movements like those found in virtually all modern video games) Isn’t really a great idea.

The “average player” is what the cooldown and mechanics were designed around. Your particular issues creat difficulties with it, and I’m sorry for you, but these issues aren’t the game’s problem, or the problem of the medikittener, they are very specific edge cases that fall outside the expected user experience.

You simply can’t design around every single outlier. It’s impossible.

I take it you disagree with the Americans with Disabilities Act also. I can hear you now, “It’s not the door’s fault your wheelchair is too wide to get through. You can’t expect us to put in a new door just for the one or two people out there that might need it do you?”

My husband is pretty much done with GW2 due to the required use of the aspects. Like the OP, I forge on, although I also have his issues. It’s taken me a year of on/off training to just be able to use mesmer blink-type skills once in a while.

We ALL have VIMS to some degree, some of us are more sensitive. For example, dancers have to locate a spot and focus on that spot has they are doing spins (snapping their head around to look at the spot) to keep from getting motion sickness.

My perspective: up until LS: Season 2, much of the really challenging “jumping with weird movement” stuff has been in separate instances or jumping puzzles that are not part of the landscape. They are in special places where jumpers can go, but those of us that are twitch-movement challenged can avoid. Placing these aspects with timers on them on the general landscape is a divergence from that past format.

Basically, what I see happening is these situations are getting programmed WITH the idea that mesmers will help many of us do the content. That, in my mind, is an unacceptable way to create the content—falling back on one skill within a single profession to CYA.

I’m enjoying the story line, I love the game, I’m just not liking the trend in the new zone of making what will obviously be part of map completion achievements into aspect-dependent mini-jumping puzzles. At least with the previous content, if a vista or point had jumping involved, I could just take my time, stop and rest, and keep trying. It might be as simple as them including a slow and tedious path to a specific point that doesn’t need aspects, and then a quick and challenging path for those that like flitting. I’m ok taking a longer, more tedious path to a POI if I can have the satisfaction of doing it on my own without having to step away from the monitor while my stomach settles.

DarcShriek.5829:

PopeUrban.2578:

Not going to flame you about it, but requesting gamewide feature changes for edge cases (like motion sickness or lag) that are outside the median experience (the game is designed around users connecting at a good rate, that are reasonably tolerant of rapid camera movements like those found in virtually all modern video games) Isn’t really a great idea.

The “average player” is what the cooldown and mechanics were designed around. Your particular issues creat difficulties with it, and I’m sorry for you, but these issues aren’t the game’s problem, or the problem of the medikittener, they are very specific edge cases that fall outside the expected user experience.

You simply can’t design around every single outlier. It’s impossible.

I take it you disagree with the Americans with Disabilities Act also. I can hear you now, “It’s not the door’s fault your wheelchair is too wide to get through. You can’t expect us to put in a new door just for the one or two people out there that might need it do you?”

Your hostility aside, let me try and explain this point more clearly.

These two points of view are in no way related. It’s like you’re saying video games shouldn’t have minimum requirements, or that the developer should ship free consoles to everyone so nobody is excluded from playing their games.

People don’t choose to be disabled in real life. This is not an analagous argument. People choose to play a given piece of entertainment software with given characteristics. Should we add a mode for the blind to GW2? How would that even work? There are simply limitations in terms of design. If you had to design the game around a dialup connection and fixed camera angles, for instance, you’d have a completely different game. If you were to design an MMO for the blind, you’d have a completely different game. If you were to design a game around players with motion sickness issues and extremely high latency connections, you’d have a completely different game.

I work in software design every day, and every project I’ve worked on counts “target user” as a very important metric before a single line of code is written or a single object modeled. GW2 has certain characteristic expectations of the default user, namely, that they can handle rapid camera movements, and that their ping is within an expected threshold, and that the user can read and speak one of the languages the game ships in. That’s not an unreasonable set of expectations by any means, and it allows them to design more action-focused combat in a 3d world with free user camera control and text based information fields.

I hope that’s a little more clear. It’s not a matter of being hostile toward outliers in a given system, but rather, there are sets of practical limitations that can’t necessarily always be catered to. The wider you make those limits, the narrower the scope of content you can actually create. The aspect jumping was wildly popular, so it’s no wonder arenanet chose to expand the mechanic, and use it in different ways. If they removed it or signifiantly altered the timing for a small subset of players, the impact would be a significant limit on how they could design zones and encounters with that mechanic.

Hmm majority of the jumps is easily doable with the 15 seconds (it also stacks if you collect another crystal). Well, a few jumps are quite difficult. Especially the achievement jumps. But I guess that’s intended.

The story related ones really shouldn’t be a problem though. I really can’t think of one which you need more than one move in those 15 seconds.

Don’t get me wrong. I totally dislike the fact that they are limited(they were so useful for exploring before >.> ). I just don’t think (even for the average player… seriously I think it’s a minority that has problems to get the few necessary jumps right) the timer is a problem for progressing to the needed points. And achievements shouldn’t be served on a silver platter(time limits are the easiest and most common way to increase “difficulty”)

Sidebar: IMHO, bringing the ADA into this conversation is a bit over the top.

Respectfully, I don’t think the aspect mechanics are as popular with the game population as they are with this forum population.

Outside of this forum, I hear a lot of less than stellar comments about the use of aspects. The players weren’t actually polled on increasing the use of aspects. To me it appears this mechanic was added to the general environment dependent on comments here in the forums. Most people come here to praise, and a very small percentage of the player population even bother with these forums. The rest of the time people just live with what they don’t like, because, yes, we ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND that the game can’t cater to everyone. We’re used to just living quietly with our difficulties and seeing those as additional challenges.

A few more seconds on the aspects…honestly, can those of you that say these jumps are relatively easy would have even noticed if the crystals lasted 20 instead of 15? If the jumps are already simple, then those folks shouldn’t even care if a few more seconds are added. It won’t affect your play at all.

Lupini.6938:

My husband is pretty much done with GW2 due to the required use of the aspects. Like the OP, I forge on, although I also have his issues. It’s taken me a year of on/off training to just be able to use mesmer blink-type skills once in a while.

We ALL have VIMS to some degree, some of us are more sensitive. For example, dancers have to locate a spot and focus on that spot has they are doing spins (snapping their head around to look at the spot) to keep from getting motion sickness.

My perspective: up until LS: Season 2, much of the really challenging “jumping with weird movement” stuff has been in separate instances or jumping puzzles that are not part of the landscape. They are in special places where jumpers can go, but those of us that are twitch-movement challenged can avoid. Placing these aspects with timers on them on the general landscape is a divergence from that past format.

Basically, what I see happening is these situations are getting programmed WITH the idea that mesmers will help many of us do the content. That, in my mind, is an unacceptable way to create the content—falling back on one skill within a single profession to CYA.

I’m enjoying the story line, I love the game, I’m just not liking the trend in the new zone of making what will obviously be part of map completion achievements into aspect-dependent mini-jumping puzzles. At least with the previous content, if a vista or point had jumping involved, I could just take my time, stop and rest, and keep trying. It might be as simple as them including a slow and tedious path to a specific point that doesn’t need aspects, and then a quick and challenging path for those that like flitting. I’m ok taking a longer, more tedious path to a POI if I can have the satisfaction of doing it on my own without having to step away from the monitor while my stomach settles.

I hate to essentially say “ditto”, but I completely agree with this entire post. I also preferred when all the jumping was essentially optional and things like vistas I could take my time. If Anet continues in this direction I will be very unhappy.

Djinn.9245:

If Anet continues in this direction I will be very unhappy.

I’ve already had it up to my eyeballs with this map. I HATE JUMPING PUZZLES.

Building an entire map around the whole concept, and making it a part of the story, and then fully ignoring player comment on this issue, is not helping my mood.

If they start to give me 15 seconds of time for each aspect then I’ll able to reach Maguuma Falls in no time. #WhoNeedsMapBoundaries
But I do have some empathy for OP, increasing the time could help.

I appreciate that.

While 15 seconds is plenty of time for me with a little practice, I am not unsympathetic to the pain suffered by people with disabilities, motion sickness or the elderly. I do think that bumping up the duration of the Aspects to, say, 20 seconds or 30 seconds would be a fair compromise. (After all, for those of us who are skilled/experienced, we can often get to the top of the JP in way less time than that. Making the duration any longer wouldn’t really affect us at all.)

Ethan Mccloud.3218:

The second problem I have with the skill is all the pre phantom jumping before an actual jump takes place only to find myself warped to a distant or worse. undesirable location. can’t begin to tell you how many times I’ve raged at the screen trying to attempt “very easy jumps” only to find myself no where I was trying to be.

I can relate to your problems very well. I have severe VIMS myself, and while I’m fortunately not affected a lot in this game, there are other current MMOs out there that I can play for no more than 30 minutes before I’m out with severe headaches and nausea for the rest of the day .

Reading your account made me wonder though: are you having those problems you describe at specific locations, or in general? I’m not very good at jumping (and only got halfway decent after practicing way too much), and don’t have the best reflexes (too old for this kind of game really ), but I’ve actually managed to get to most places I wanted to go in Dry Top without too much trouble.

The key for me, especially in the uplands, seems to be to watch the area I’m jumping closely beforehand, to eliminate as many overhangs and stuff that may block my jump as possible and plan the possible path to take by vision first.

I try to pick up as many aspects as possible before jumping (to extend the time I have … sometimes if you look around a route through a few aspects further off actually gives you more time than just collecting the closest one(s)), since each one adds 15 seconds, so you can end up with way more than 15s for your jump. Each aspect also reappears after 15 seconds, so if you are lucky, you can cycle through them a few times before actually starting the jump to stock up on crystal time. The air crystal flanked by two sun crystals below the second(?) uplands vista comes to mind here.

In situations where fighting and timed jumps come up together (the inquest cave comes to mind, that one gave me a lot of trouble over several days before I got through), I find that it helps a lot to tackle that in a group. You will clear out the mobs faster and have more time to look around, locate all helpful aspects and actually plan which ones to use for maximum aspect duration and prefered path.

And in the end, when it comes to routes that need several precise jumps in a row, the only thing that helps is practicing slowly. I take each jump slowly, make sure I find the exact spots to jump from/to, then try again when I run out of time half-way to my destination. Each time (well, maybe every 2nd or 3rd time ) I try I will know the route a bit better, and be able to jump quicker and more precise to get a bit further to my destination. Eventually I’ll get there by taking it slowly (it’s easier on the eyes anyway) and trying again until it all flows together.

If all else fails and you happen to be on EU, don’t hesitate to whisper me when you want to reach a place that refuses to be accessible. My mesmer may not be quick to reach places, but I think I’ve gotten her to every place in Dry Top by now (even mastered the jp after only two weeks of trying continuously ), and she’s alway got a portal ready.

> The crystals were broken in the crash so of course they’re timed. I think 15 seconds was chosen because it is a good 1/4 of a minute. 30 seconds would feel too long given the fact that the timer on the aspects stack.

> The only place I ever see complaints about the aspects are here in the forum. I’ve spent a significant amount of time in Dry Top and have never once seen anyone complain about the aspects there or ask for help in getting somewhere (aside from people offering ports to the Llamas/Jumping Puzzle.

The wonky camera angles also make the 15 second crystals difficult to use. I got the LLama one by sheer luck because I just kept moving. The crystal timer does not allow one to maneuver the camera quick enough to line things up well. Folks have been complaining about the horrible camera views since the game started. Fix that and I suspect the 15 seconds on the crystal won’t matter as much.

Rasmir
I appreciate that guide. Some very useful tips you have described in your post an with the aid of a friend of mine will try to implement. The main source of my struggle with Games like these concerning my (VIMS) is when I’m no longer in control of my camera angle or the moment the game needs to propel me somewhere that I’m not in control of . An example would be the launch pads in sparkfly fen while fighting teq. Although extremely fun an amusing. the moment I make the jump the twitch effect happens where my camera angle changes rapidly mid jump. (Que nausea) . That’s a manageable feeling though for that jump is only needed three times evenly spaced out during the teq fight. plus the option to simply run back is great.

In the Dry top instance however is a bit more severe. I grab the crystal (que timer) an proceed to jump to the boulder or ledge that I’m aiming for and at the moment of the jump . The toon does a jump within a jump . only way to describe it is a funky double jump but does not actually go anywhere. then the sec button press leads me to wall face or ledge lower then intended that’s if I haven’t fallen in the crevice or canyon in the first place of the first jump. (clock still running -Crystal flashing) now begins the panic multi jumping to get back where I was before the crystal wears off. Now during that common cycle of events causes two reactions . The first is the jump it self dramatically altering of the camera angles causing the intital feeling of nausea to set in. forgive the comparison here but I feel It fits nicely here , It would be like a Mesmer Stacking Confusion stacks and conditions on me in real life with every additional jump I make. when that cycle ends. I use what is left of my senses an grab the crystal again an have another go at it . A mistake sure … but I try an stick it out the best I can as there is no path around it to get to where I want to go as in the TEQ example. Then after the 2nd and the (FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ) Raging and extremely nauseated 3rd try I stop, unplug an lay down no closer to my objective.
The second reaction is the my recovery from the overwhelming feeling of debilitation. Afterward I resume game play in some other area of focus in a different map . Wvw usually. Kinda sad .. I love the new content ,, waited for what seems like ever to finally get a chance to sink my teeth in some new material only to find that what I waited for comes with a hardship. In the end though ,, my original post wasn’t to up root the content an change it dramatically … Im just looking for a fighting chance to enjoy what other’s have come to enjoy or hate depending on your prospective. After all , what else can I do but speak up . To remain silent about it would have been in itself a tragedy.

Lets remember that you only need the most basic jumps with aspects to complete the story and do most of the events. It’s only the people who give up entirely who can’t do that. The routes to the story instances are the main routes across the zone and need one jump with one nearby aspect. With those routes Dry Top can be played as a regular zone with plenty to do without using many aspects.

If you want extra rewards such as achievements, vistas, lost coins, diving goggles, buried chests, llamas, and so on, then yes you need aspects. That’s fine. Nobody needs to find the llamas. I know that I’m not good at jumping puzzles, I’m not going to read web spoilers, I know I’m not going to get all the achievements or find all the coins, I don’t care.

Bad jumping and poor timing can also be down to graphics lag. Drop your settings and see whether that helps.

Maybe they should just stick little pixilated happy clouds with rainbow paths leading past the jumpy parts?

Lupini.6938:

Sidebar: IMHO, bringing the ADA into this conversation is a bit over the top.

Respectfully, I don’t think the aspect mechanics are as popular with the game population as they are with this forum population.

Outside of this forum, I hear a lot of less than stellar comments about the use of aspects. The players weren’t actually polled on increasing the use of aspects. To me it appears this mechanic was added to the general environment dependent on comments here in the forums. Most people come here to praise, and a very small percentage of the player population even bother with these forums. The rest of the time people just live with what they don’t like, because, yes, we ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND that the game can’t cater to everyone. We’re used to just living quietly with our difficulties and seeing those as additional challenges.

A few more seconds on the aspects…honestly, can those of you that say these jumps are relatively easy would have even noticed if the crystals lasted 20 instead of 15? If the jumps are already simple, then those folks shouldn’t even care if a few more seconds are added. It won’t affect your play at all.

Also respectfully, The only place I’ve heard complaints abut them is on the forums. In mapchat and /say people either seem to be enjoying themselves or laughing at themselves for missing a jump.

The aspects already last twice as long as it takes to complete the basic navigation jumps though, and even my most jumping-inept guildmates have managed to get everywhere but the achievement-related “this is supposed to be hard” areas without much trouble.

It’s really anet’s call here, but my personal feeling is that it’s already really, really easy to use them for basic zone navigation.

Ethan Mccloud.3218:

(clock still running -Crystal flashing) now begins the panic multi jumping to get back where I was before the crystal wears off.

This may be the key to improving your experience. I found that once I ignored the flashing timer thingy and just took my time, things improved dramatically for me. I’d do the first jump carefully, try to find and remember the exact spot and direction I wanted to jump, and if I failed, I waited for the crystal to come back up and tried again slowly. If you pay attention to and try to memorise the spot that works best for the jump, you’ll find that your timing will quickly improve, and within a few tries you’ll get to the point where there’s enough time left to try to find the sweet spot for the second jump, and so on.

Panic jumps don’t work for me, they’ll just make me move my field of vision too quickly and miss the spot I need to hit for the jump to bring me where I want to go. There are so many rocks and ledges around Dry Top that mess up your jumps, I just can’t take in the details quickly enough to do it fast. But I find that if I take my time, figure out the right spot and memorise it, things don’t take all that long (longer than “normal” jumping people, but not nearly long enough to annoy me, plus the sense of satisfaction when I’ve finally made it myself is awesome ).

I regularly find myself going back to panic jumps if I just want to go someplace quickly, but it just doesn’t work for me. Taking my time and back-tracking until I hit the right jumps naturally is the key (and it is sooo much easier on the eyes really).

As for the Tequatl jump pads, I usually close my eyes as soon as I jump on one, and don’t open them again until I’m sure I’ve landed. Works like a charm .

Rasimir its funny you mention that about the launching pad.. I’ve recently adopted the practice of closing my eyes right before the launch on the pad . I’ve found that works great at teq. In drytop its bit different for me though. A friend of mine showed me a few spots where in certain jumps u can grab 2 aspect crystals in rout to a jump for no where in particular.. its upon that discovery that I noticed that with extra time I can carefully navigate less stressfully certain spots that again really lead to no where which is fine . Helps me gain an endurance for the vision induced motion sickness. Its only in areas that matter or when I’m trailing a teammate an there is only one aspect to use in the perspective area we need to complete that all the comfort is thrown out the window. U got to remember that for some reason the first jump is almost always a freaky double jump which then leads to a good jump but then cycles back to bad jump… its then that taking your time no longer matters cause now your starting all over again.. this time however its with an increasing degree of difficulty due to the nausea now clouding the vision .

not to take away from your post.. believe me when I say your suggestions have not fallen on deaf ears. its the overall of building up to the point to where I can implement them is the only factor. Sadly though I still believe that a little more time on the aspect , and this forum post would of been altogether unnecessary . Thanks again to all the posts made by all .

“The battle you are going through is not fueled by the words or actions of others; it is fueled by the mind that gives it importance.”
? Shannon L. Alder

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490

I’ve already had it up to my eyeballs with this map. I HATE JUMPING PUZZLES.

Building an entire map around the whole concept, and making it a part of the story, and then fully ignoring player comment on this issue, is not helping my mood.

I know everyone’s tastes are different and I respect that. But I wanted to add that I’m on the other side of this one. I enjoy the jumping puzzles in GW2, and Dry Top is proving to be one of my favorites areas. I like looking up at the various walls and crags and thinking “I wonder if I can get up there…”

I’m somewhat disappointed when they put a vista up in an obscure area because then we know we are “supposed” to get up there. I prefer the freedom of finding my own vistas.

On the thread topic though, I’d agree that the assisted leap should last longer, although not exactly for the same reasons as the OP. I’d like to see it last longer so we can explore longer and farther.