pale tree knows us...
when I suggested we have an audience with the pale tree, they rebuke that I’m ‘reknown, but not that famous’, and ourcharacters replies something along the lines of ’we’ll find a way.’
To be fair, the rest of the gang wasn’t with us then, so they probably don’t know we met the Pale Tree before.
when I suggested we have an audience with the pale tree, they rebuke that I’m ‘reknown, but not that famous’, and ourcharacters replies something along the lines of ’we’ll find a way.’
To be fair, the rest of the gang wasn’t with us then, so they probably don’t know we met the Pale Tree before.
This. There will probably be a moment with the Pale Tree saying “We meet again, my child,” at which point the rest of the team will go, “You know the Pale Tree?”
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
when I suggested we have an audience with the pale tree, they rebuke that I’m ‘reknown, but not that famous’, and ourcharacters replies something along the lines of ’we’ll find a way.’
To be fair, the rest of the gang wasn’t with us then, so they probably don’t know we met the Pale Tree before.
This. There will probably be a moment with the Pale Tree saying “We meet again, my child,” at which point the rest of the team will go, “You know the Pale Tree?”
at which point all the sylvari PCs will roll their eyes and answer “should i be shocked that your respective mothers know you?”
…and then everyone gets really offended, because i just realized our group is composed of (at least) 60% orphans.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
when I suggested we have an audience with the pale tree, they rebuke that I’m ‘reknown, but not that famous’, and ourcharacters replies something along the lines of ’we’ll find a way.’
To be fair, the rest of the gang wasn’t with us then, so they probably don’t know we met the Pale Tree before.
This. There will probably be a moment with the Pale Tree saying “We meet again, my child,” at which point the rest of the team will go, “You know the Pale Tree?”
at which point all the sylvari PCs will roll their eyes and answer “should i be shocked that your respective mothers know you?”
…and then everyone gets really offended, because i just realized our group is composed of (at least) 60% orphans.
Amateur writing 101. Orphans are easier for people to identify with because their problems specifically relate to them rather than to family members. They are also more independent individuals, lending them a decent amount of escapist joy. It’s why in a decent amount of adolescent fiction (film, tv, video games and books) the characters either don’t have parents, or their parents are non-figures in the plot.
(edited by FlamingFoxx.1305)
This actually raised some questions concerning the procedures needed to meet with the Pale Tree’s Avatar. Aside from random non-story wandering, does any player character ever visit the Pale Tree by themselves?
As far as I can tell, even in the sylvari story quests, you are always talking to her while in the presence of someone who holds a position power, a firstborn. Maybe all this stuff was hand waived easily before due to having direct ties to firstborn. Doubly so for Trahearne, being the oldest.
Now that you’ve moved on from your firstborn instructors and boss, a little more work is needed. Like Caith said in the Dream and Nightmare story, “Why should she care? She has thousands of children now, Cadeyrn. You are either firstborn…or you are simply sylvari.” And that was to a secondborn, all player characters, if the two year cycle of birth classification was maintained, are at least twelfth generation sylvari.
Here’s the thing, the Omphalos Chamber is open to any old shmuck who wants to walk in. Why would we need an audience with her when I have already walked in (By myself, with no firstborn NPCs) and informed her that I was the one who killed Scarlet? It is a pretty significant oversight on the part of the writers. Even with what Yossitaru said about “aside from random non-story wandering”, this shouldn’t change anything. Going with an Ideal situation (Sylvari character who has completed every bit of story released), You are the most one of the most famous sylvari in existence. You have saved Lions Arch repeatedly, killed Zhaitan, Scarlet, avenged Riannoc, saved the order you joined from destruction and advanced to its highest rank, cofounder of the Pact, etc. If anyone has a walk-in-and-visit-the-pale-tree-anytime-I-want-because-I am-a-kitten card, it is you.
Tnekk/ Fyrni/ Rina Selania/ Doroga Icemaul
“And also… I can kill you with my brain.”
~River Tam~
“And also… I can kill you with my brain.”
~River Tam~
Having thuruoghly enjoyed this living story update, I still must admit, there is great room for improvement… just small things here and there that don’t add up; and for me, the biggest issue, was the closing conversation with my team. when I suggested we have an audience with the pale tree, they rebuke that I’m ‘reknown, but not that famous’, and ourcharacters replies something along the lines of ’we’ll find a way.’ And yet, we’ve already had a metting with the pale tree, and I can’t help but to think why didn’t our character say as much? he should have shrugged it off, and replied with, "well I’ve met her before, so it should be too hard’ or the likes. This is a minor issue at best, but it was something of note none the less.
As Yossitaru pointed out, our last meeting with the Pale Tree was organized by the first of the firstborn. If you area a Sylvari already, others were organized by a different firstborn (Caithe) and the Pale Tree had a specific assignment for you. That does not mean you can wander into the Omphalos Chamber and expect the Avatar of the Pale Tree to talk to you. Maybe you have had a meeting with the governor of your state before. That does not mean you can just set up an appointment to meet again.
“You know the Pale Tree?”
‘’Yeah, my ancestor used to take a leak on her when she was just a sprout.’’
I replayed the story, this time as a Sylvari and fully expected the line to change to something like, “You might be the only person who could get and audience with the Pale Tree.”
I like that someone else noticed this.
If anyone has a walk-in-and-visit-the-pale-tree-anytime-I-want-because-I am-a-kitten card, it is you.
I get the thought process behind this idea, but I don’t think it makes perfect sense. The only racial leader that really makes sense to allow pop-ins, lore wise, is Knut Whitebear.
A meeting with Queen Jennah probably requires asking permission and filling out paperwork.
“Speaking” with Imperators is probably more of a hierarchical passing of information, that is, you tell your Legionnaire, they tell the Centurion, they tell the Tribune, and finally information is relayed to the Imperator. Steps can probably be skipped depending on one’s personal relationships with higher ranked individuals.
The Arcane Council? Good luck with that. It’s largely a sham organization to give the illusion the asura have a government analogous to the other races and facilitate diplomacy. Unless one or more of them wants something, or you offer a large enough bribe, they don’t have any reason to care.
Fame does not mean complete freedom of access. Walking in on any of the racial leaders is a gameplay feature, not a lore fact.
(edited by Yossitaru.3045)
Don’t forget, Pale Tree might be preparing for the brunt of Mordremoth and Nightmare Court…
Why Nightmare Court? If they are to discover that there are other trees not bound by the Pale Tree’s Dream, they would gladly burn the Pale Tree down to ashes, before moving on to turn the other trees to nightmare…
I’m a casual PvE adventurer, I enjoy combat, adventure and helping, but not farming.
I rarely do PvP or Hard PvE, unless it’s organized.
I rarely do PvP or Hard PvE, unless it’s organized.
The Pale Tree, despite her humbleness, is still the leader of a major race of tyria, the local equivilent of the Arcane Council, Queen Jennah, Knut Whitebear or Smolder the Unflinching. The PC, despite his psudo-celeberaty status for his role in the demise of Zhaitan and Scarlet Briar, is still a civilian, and not on active duty with any of the four orders.
While i’m not saying it would be impossible or even probably difficult to secure a meeting with the Pale Tree, it would not be easy or without complications.
No more non cosmetic world event rewards. We haven’t forgotten the Ancient Karka.
when I suggested we have an audience with the pale tree, they rebuke that I’m ‘reknown, but not that famous’, and ourcharacters replies something along the lines of ’we’ll find a way.’
To be fair, the rest of the gang wasn’t with us then, so they probably don’t know we met the Pale Tree before.
This. There will probably be a moment with the Pale Tree saying “We meet again, my child,” at which point the rest of the team will go, “You know the Pale Tree?”
Well they definitely should do something like this. At the very least give some recognition as to how awesome my character is :P
Up until S2 the issue was with the ambiguity around when the living story takes place, but with S2 clearly stating that it takes place after Zhaitan’s defeat it’s not unreasonable to simply accept that the character’s have gone through the entire Personal Story and give some recognition of the fact.
The Pale Tree recognizing us would be a small step in that directly. Even better of the Biconics would react in the way purposed above.
However I must say with the whole Mordy name game (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Naming-Mordremoth) it does feel like some of the subtle things get left out sometimes.
Having the biconics actually react and talk to us would be a big step in addressing one of the big issues I’m experiencing: we’re a bit disconnected from the story. Partly maybe because our characters aren’t voiced but mostly because we get referred to (‘the boss’, ‘the leader’) and never really talked to (if that makes any sense).
Here’s the thing, the Omphalos Chamber is open to any old shmuck who wants to walk in. Why would we need an audience with her when I have already walked in (By myself, with no firstborn NPCs) and informed her that I was the one who killed Scarlet? It is a pretty significant oversight on the part of the writers.
I don’t think it was an oversight. Remember this dialog occurs at the end of Episode 2, the writer probably wanted to convey this fact. Instead of having the episode end on “ok everyone lets go to the Pale Tree” and then nothing for two weeks, they decided “ok lets first arrange for a meeting” and then nothing for two weeks. Sort of an attempt to explain why we’re not immediately going to see the Pale Tree, and also an attempt to more or less keep the episodes encapsulated.
Although I do think that it could have been done better.
I replayed the story, this time as a Sylvari and fully expected the line to change to something like, “You might be the only person who could get and audience with the Pale Tree.”
I like that someone else noticed this.
Playing on my Sylvari I also found this a bit odd. They probably didn’t feel like (or didn’t have time to) inputting a race-check in the dialogue tree.
Don’t forget, Pale Tree might be preparing for the brunt of Mordremoth and Nightmare Court…
Why Nightmare Court? If they are to discover that there are other trees not bound by the Pale Tree’s Dream, they would gladly burn the Pale Tree down to ashes, before moving on to turn the other trees to nightmare…
Basically the plot of the Malyck story line.
The Pale Tree, despite her humbleness, is still the leader of a major race of tyria, the local equivilent of the Arcane Council, Queen Jennah, Knut Whitebear or Smolder the Unflinching. The PC, despite his psudo-celeberaty status for his role in the demise of Zhaitan and Scarlet Briar, is still a civilian, and not on active duty with any of the four orders.
While i’m not saying it would be impossible or even probably difficult to secure a meeting with the Pale Tree, it would not be easy or without complications.
But now we run into a lore – gameplay clash. Lore wise it makes sense, in game we can however just stroll right up to her. The confusion is understandable.
The Pale Tree knows me.
I smell like Mahogany.
I have many leather-bound books too.
I think I am a kind of a big deal.
I will get the audience without any issue.
The real problem is that this living story tries to both ignore and not ignore the personal story. I think that’s why its riddled with all these little bits and pieces that by themselves are oddities, but together are jarring big discrepancies when you look back at the bigger picture.
I come from the boat that the story should assume, regardless, that you did your Personal Story. Even one of the three explorers in Dry Top refer to you as Commander, regardless of if you did your story. Meanwhile Belinda only refers to you as Commander if you go into chapter 1 as a character that did enough of the PS to be a commander. Why does she know the difference when the Explorers do not?
Even visiting the Pale Tree (and no, I wasn’t asked for my passport or promised to give them my first born) she had no qualms talking to me and thanking me for killing Scarlett.
The real problem is that this living story tries to both ignore and not ignore the personal story. I think that’s why its riddled with all these little bits and pieces that by themselves are oddities, but together are jarring big discrepancies when you look back at the bigger picture.
I come from the boat that the story should assume, regardless, that you did your Personal Story. Even one of the three explorers in Dry Top refer to you as Commander, regardless of if you did your story. Meanwhile Belinda only refers to you as Commander if you go into chapter 1 as a character that did enough of the PS to be a commander. Why does she know the difference when the Explorers do not?
Even visiting the Pale Tree (and no, I wasn’t asked for my passport or promised to give them my first born) she had no qualms talking to me and thanking me for killing Scarlett.
wrong. living story right now is personal story 2. it even counts for personal story completion. the devs said it assumes that they assume you completed all the story before the current release, including season 1 and personal story.
the reason they’re doing that should be obvious to anyone, they need a cliffhanger, something to tie both releases.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
The real problem is that this living story tries to both ignore and not ignore the personal story. I think that’s why its riddled with all these little bits and pieces that by themselves are oddities, but together are jarring big discrepancies when you look back at the bigger picture.
I come from the boat that the story should assume, regardless, that you did your Personal Story. Even one of the three explorers in Dry Top refer to you as Commander, regardless of if you did your story. Meanwhile Belinda only refers to you as Commander if you go into chapter 1 as a character that did enough of the PS to be a commander. Why does she know the difference when the Explorers do not?
Even visiting the Pale Tree (and no, I wasn’t asked for my passport or promised to give them my first born) she had no qualms talking to me and thanking me for killing Scarlett.
wrong. living story right now is personal story 2. it even counts for personal story completion. the devs said it assumes that they assume you completed all the story before the current release, including season 1 and personal story.
the reason they’re doing that should be obvious to anyone, they need a cliffhanger, something to tie both releases.
Wrong. Just because the devs said it doesn’t mean it’s true. As was pointed out in the post you said was wrong (which was right), in the very first instance of the first episode, Belinda says two different things to you if you talk to her after the fighting is over. If you haven’t yet become Commander of the Pact (not sure exactly where it cuts off), she will just vaguely remark about how you’ve done some big things. If you are Commander, she’ll make specific mention of how you’re the Commander and killed Zhaitan (oddly enough, she makes this comment even if you haven’t killed Zhaitan yet).
So no, it doesn’t just assume you’ve done the entire personal story, or else everyone would have the Commander dialogue. They are, in fact, playing both sides of the fence, in what is clearly a poorly-planned dialogue change. They won’t assume you’re Commander unless you got that far, but will assume you killed Zhaitan if you became a Commander.
@BrunoBRS.5178:
Did you read the post before you said “wrong”. Because I’m pretty sure that the opinion of what I said was that this living story plays out as someone coming from both sides of the fence. They ignore AND not ignore the personal story.
They are trying to make it so that if you didn’t do your personal story you GET NO references to content that came before and if you did your personal story you may get a tag back to it, but(more importantly) not always. To me this is ignoring and not ignoring something that came before the living story part 2. Because now you can go "time travel’ back and complete that and it’ll change small little parts that may tag at you, but it’s NOT anything substantial. They don’t reference your mentors, friends or anything like that.
It’s in the playing of both sides of the fence that we get the glaring discrepancies when you try to look back at the overall story.
I will add this though:
Just because someone says it “counts” for something doesn’t mean it IS a personal story. I played through my personal story on more than 2 characters and each one should not be ignored for Kasmeer deciding she was going to plan out how we got an audience when I could have gone to Trahearne and got my buddy to let me in.
Oh sure, others might not have done the Personal story, but they have the potential to do it which will change their future. I however did my personal story and watching that scene left me feeling left out of the process that I should be looking into… not Kasmeer.
@BrunoBRS.5178:
Did you read the post before you said “wrong”. Because I’m pretty sure that the opinion of what I said was that this living story plays out as someone coming from both sides of the fence. They ignore AND not ignore the personal story.
They are trying to make it so that if you didn’t do your personal story you GET NO references to content that came before and if you did your personal story you may get a tag back to it, but(more importantly) not always. To me this is ignoring and not ignoring something that came before the living story part 2. Because now you can go "time travel’ back and complete that and it’ll change small little parts that may tag at you, but it’s NOT anything substantial. They don’t reference your mentors, friends or anything like that.
It’s in the playing of both sides of the fence that we get the glaring discrepancies when you try to look back at the overall story.
I will add this though:
Just because someone says it “counts” for something doesn’t mean it IS a personal story. I played through my personal story on more than 2 characters and each one should not be ignored for Kasmeer deciding she was going to plan out how we got an audience when I could have gone to Trahearne and got my buddy to let me in.
Oh sure, others might not have done the Personal story, but they have the potential to do it which will change their future. I however did my personal story and watching that scene left me feeling left out of the process that I should be looking into… not Kasmeer.
yes i did. just because you don’t like what the writers did doesn’t mean your assumption is right. the writers have confirmed that for all intents and purposes, season 2 will treat your character like someone that has beat the personal story and season 1, even if you didn’t. saying they’re still on the fence is factually wrong.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
@BrunoBRS.5178:
Did you read the post before you said “wrong”. Because I’m pretty sure that the opinion of what I said was that this living story plays out as someone coming from both sides of the fence. They ignore AND not ignore the personal story.
They are trying to make it so that if you didn’t do your personal story you GET NO references to content that came before and if you did your personal story you may get a tag back to it, but(more importantly) not always. To me this is ignoring and not ignoring something that came before the living story part 2. Because now you can go "time travel’ back and complete that and it’ll change small little parts that may tag at you, but it’s NOT anything substantial. They don’t reference your mentors, friends or anything like that.
It’s in the playing of both sides of the fence that we get the glaring discrepancies when you try to look back at the overall story.
I will add this though:
Just because someone says it “counts” for something doesn’t mean it IS a personal story. I played through my personal story on more than 2 characters and each one should not be ignored for Kasmeer deciding she was going to plan out how we got an audience when I could have gone to Trahearne and got my buddy to let me in.
Oh sure, others might not have done the Personal story, but they have the potential to do it which will change their future. I however did my personal story and watching that scene left me feeling left out of the process that I should be looking into… not Kasmeer.
yes i did. just because you don’t like what the writers did doesn’t mean your assumption is right. the writers have confirmed that for all intents and purposes, season 2 will treat your character like someone that has beat the personal story and season 1, even if you didn’t. saying they’re still on the fence is factually wrong.
And as pointed out in detail, what is said in that post is factually wrong.
Belinda changes what she says based on whether or not you’re the Commander. If you are not at the point where you’re the Commander of the Pact, she does not refer to you as such. So for the purposes of dialogue, they do not assume you have completed it.
when I suggested we have an audience with the pale tree, they rebuke that I’m ‘reknown, but not that famous’, and ourcharacters replies something along the lines of ’we’ll find a way.’
To be fair, the rest of the gang wasn’t with us then, so they probably don’t know we met the Pale Tree before.
This. There will probably be a moment with the Pale Tree saying “We meet again, my child,” at which point the rest of the team will go, “You know the Pale Tree?”
To which Lapis, my main character, will respond: “Of course I know her! How can I not know my own mother?” Then he’ll turn towards the Pale Tree and say, “Mother, meet the fellow adventurers I’ve been working with recently: Marjory, Kasmeer, Rox, Braham, and Taimi!”
This. There will probably be a moment with the Pale Tree saying “We meet again, my child,” at which point the rest of the team will go, “You know the Pale Tree?”
To which Lapis, my main character, will respond: “Of course I know her! How can I not know my own mother?” Then he’ll turn towards the Pale Tree and say, “Mother, meet the fellow adventurers I’ve been working with recently: Marjory, Kasmeer, Rox, Braham, and Taimi!”
This. There will probably be a moment with the Pale Tree saying “We meet again, my child,” at which point the rest of the team will go, “You know the Pale Tree?”
at which point all the sylvari PCs will roll their eyes and answer “should i be shocked that your respective mothers know you?”
…and then everyone gets really offended, because i just realized our group is composed of (at least) 60% orphans.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
NPC’s in GW2 have the memory-capacity of a goldfish or even worse, a fly.
I won’t spoiler, but my asura thief met Professor Gorr three times during the living story.
Not once did he show any signs of recognizing my character.
I wouldn’t be that surprised if Anet didn’t put a memory-scene in for the pale-tree.
Sigh, people the whole concept is of getting a meeting.
Guess what, you walking into the pale tree chamber and talking to her, or walking into the throne room of DR, or the arcane council, wouldn’t happen much.
Or sure, you could enter the room, but it’s doubtful you could actually talk to them for more then a second. THEY ARE LEADERS OF THEIR NATIONS. You randomly walking in is much less important then say, the news about how well the new trade laws are affecting things. Or things about how the Asura diplomat has listed these issues at the moment concerning the asura gate payments.